not going to be a dad

[FrogMan]

hoopsguy, you can't believe how close to home you are hitting. As you may know, I, as many others around, have been blessed with two beautiful child. They are the joy of our somewhat small family (the only grandchild on both side, as my wife is an only child and my sister, well read on) However, my own little sister and her husband have been trying for the last two years to no avail. She's about your age and has had two miscarriages already. It breaks my heart whenever I hear/read about stories like yours, honestly. Even more so, it always seems to happen to people who would really want to be parents.

Sadly, not much I can tell you, other than you are in my thoughts and I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do...

FM

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I think everyone should have to read about stories like this, and think about them the next time they have the urge to fire off a witty "so, when are you having kids?" comment during casual conversation.

Most people aren't interested in talking about their personal decisions anyways, and for some people that question is like a kick in the gut every time it's asked.

As an aside, I'm glad that no one has actually asked my wife and I that either before the wedding or in the now roughly 6 weeks after. Thankfully, I have parents who aren't like that but unfortunately, I have friends who aren't as lucky and are actually under pressure about this from their parents

SI

[muns]

Man hoops, you and your wife will be in my prayers

MUNS

[hoopsguy]

Thanks to everyone for their kind words. There are a number of responses here that really hit home.

On the topic of adoption, during our process it was a Plan B that we didn't want to distract from Plan A. I'm not sure if this sounds horrible or logical, but our first preference was to have Tammy carry a child if that was an option.

Now that a pregnancy seems out of the question, we'll take a little bit of time to cool off and probably start exploring adoption. Get a feel for the costs and the process and determine if we want to dive right in (wife's pref) or pay down some debt accumulated during this ordeal for a year or so before going down this road (my initial feeling).

The flip side on adoption is that there is a part of me that thinks that it seems silly to feel like I need to have a kid to feel fulfilled. That if this is the hand I've been dealt that I can devote more time to:
1.) Being a great husband
2.) Really taking my career to another level
3.) Build wealth - obviously there are a number of expenses associated with children
4.) Have fun - there are a ton of places that Tammy and I would love to visit. Not having children means we will have the flexibility that comes with time and money
5.) Enjoy other people's children - lots of the fun, little of the responsibility

But when I think about this, I keep coming back to last Thanksgiving when my dad and step-mom travelled to Detroit to see family friends who have two young children (4 and 2 at the time, I believe). My step-moms son had a child with his former girlfriend, but his life was a mess and he lost them both. He doesn't know where they are. I'm convinced the break-up with my step-mom (and dad) was tougher for the girlfiend that breaking up with the guy as they were unbelievably doting grandparents. And I don't know how I would deny them the chance to be grandparents again if adoption is an option.

I hear that many couples look at overseas options for adoption; I had no idea that this was so common. Are these options driven by cost, availability of children, shorter approval process, etc?

Anyways, if I seemed abrupt on the idea of adoption in the initial post it was because the emotion of yesterday was pretty raw and that the idea of adopting was not going to address my current state. I know that I need to work through some period of mourning for something I have never had - I just don't know what the schedule is supposed to be for this.

Peter, you brought up a number of comments that I didn't include in the initial post for one reason or another - heck, it already felt like a novel with what I did include. But we have seen a ton of our friends (or wives of friends, as applicable) get pregnant while we have been going through this. Two guys who stood up in my wedding were really sheepish when they told me that they were expecting a kid. It was so strange, that they were concerned about how I would take it when they were getting this astonishingly good news. And, of course, I put up a good face. But it does get frustrating when everyone around you is getting pregnant and having kids. It is inevitable for some feelings of bitterness and envy to arise. At least it was for us. My wife works in HR and has two co-workers in her office who were pregnant at the same time. That was just a brutal time for her, with the emotional swings. You try not to resent other people's happiness and good fortune, but it is extremely challenging. And, during this period, of course everyone who stopped by Tammy's office inquired when she would be announcing her pregnancy. Natural question, but something that was the equivalent of nails on a chalkboard for her.

For everyone who expressed special concern/sympathy for Tammy, it is well placed. This ordeal is SO much tougher on the woman, as she has to endure 2x as many doctor's appointments, all the physical pain of invasive surgeries, the weight gain that comes with ingesting steroids coupled with not being able to work out because of pain from intramuscular shots, and the barrage of shots. Compared to that, my part was relatively easy. I know that the majority of the readers here are guys, but it is flat heroic the amount that Tammy has been forced to endure in order to try and give us a child.

Of course, at the moment that the self-pity is rolling in there is inevitably some commercial or episode on a TV show that somehow celebrates children in a way that seems to be written to rub our face in our predicament. My favorite involved a commercial that talked about guys giving up their poker game to spend time with their kid, following it with the tag line "A child changes everything". I'm sure this is a wonderful message for a large segment of the population, but it made me see red at the time.

And the thought about opportunities lost in college/post-college has definitely reared its head on more than one occasion.

FrogMan, I hope that your sister is seeing a subspecialist in the fertility field. There are a ton of additional variables that they are starting to look at in cases like these. Ultimately this appears to be what was happening with Tammy during the first few cycles - except that the body was rejecting the embryo very early in the process instead of later in the cycle.

Anyways, if someone does find themselves in a position where they are facing these kind of challenges sometime in the future I'm putting out a standing offer to be available to talk about the process. That was part of the reason I put this out there, as I know I ran searches on this board a couple of times over the last two years seeing if someone had talked about similar struggles at any point. It can be a pretty lonely struggle at times, no matter how terrific your partner may be. There is a ton of doubt about whether you are doing the right thing from cycle to cycle. Deciding what level of trust to invest in a doctor when you aren't seeing results just sucks. Thinking about whether you would reduce the child count in the event that you had triplets/quads/more, which is increasingly likely with IVF. Talking about this with people who just can't put themselves in your shoes, no matter how hard they try, can be frustrating. I hope this ends up being helpful for someone else in the future. I think that putting some of these thoughts into words has been somewhat therapeutic for me. I know that it was heart-warming to see the well-wishes from a number of people who I have spent time with in this community, as well as from others who I don't know as well. So thank you again.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

FrogMan, I hope that your sister is seeing a subspecialist in the fertility field. There are a ton of additional variables that they are starting to look at in cases like these. Ultimately this appears to be what was happening with Tammy during the first few cycles - except that the body was rejecting the embryo very early in the process instead of later in the cycle.

Thanks for your concerns. I know she is seeing someone, although I'm sort of unsure where they're at. What I gathered was that her husband was thought to have what they call a 47th chromosome and that could be what was causing the miscarriage although she received some good news, yesterday in fact, that it wasn't the case. Doctor told her to keep trying and that it could very well stick at some point. A tiny ray of hope, to which they are holding for the moment. She's 32, so not necessarily old by any means.

I'm not very well versed in their whole situation since talking about it with my sister makes me, and her, sad and I get the feeling she doesn't want to tell me all their secrets, which is fine by me. Sometimes I get the feeling she's too much of an open book with my mom and it very often leads to more heartbreaking whenever something happens. I'll never forget the day she showed up at our doorstep to ask us if we'd be the godparents of their future baby, smiling from ear to ear. She was, I don't know, 6 weeks pregnant at the time and lost it two weeks later

Anyway, best of luck in anything you do with your life hoopsguy. You bring valid points regarding parenthood (grandparents/being a parent vs not being one) and having to mourn the current situation. Take it easy, take care of your lady and whenever you need to vent/rant/talk, we'll be here for you. Meanwhile, I'll keep you in my thoughts.

FM

[randal7]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

...we'll take a little bit of time to cool off and probably start exploring adoption. Get a feel for the costs....

On the costs...

Overseas will likely run upwards of $20k total. Domestic through an agency or privately varies, up to $15k or more, or much less. Our adoption was through Baptist Children's Home (which has an office in the Chicago area somewhere) and cost about $3500 (not counting associated expenses which will vary, i.e. hotel stays, etc.). (A note about BCH: it is a faith-based nonprofit, and will have some conditions for your acceptance into the process).

But also: all expenses associated with an adoption are tax-deferred. At least I think this is the term. If you pay taxes, the adoption expenses come directly off your tax payment (or add to your refund). This has a limit of around $11k total over 3 years (not sure of the exact figures off the top of my head). Concievably, an adoption could be free over the long-term, or even bring you back extra cash if you adopt a special needs child. This was a pleasant surprise around tax time.

[Desnudo]

I went looking for an ivf thread as my wife and I are staring down this barrel again. Waiting to hear back on iui results which are mostly likely negative (has anyone ever had this work? Who are the 20%.). My wife and I are both fine, so fall into the "unexplained" bucket.

Our two year old son was the result of ivf. We got lucky and it happened the first round. Plus my insurance covered a good chunk of it at the time. This time around we are several years older and my insurance doesn't cover it. So looking at a 25k hit minimum for one of those multi round packages + meds.

The amount of stress this places on a marriage is unfathomable - financial, emotional, medical. I look back and wouldn't trade my son for the world, but looking ahead to the next however many months; I know it will just be an absolute nightmare.

Anyone else going through this type of thing lately? Trying to find an outlet.

[hoopsguy]

Desnudo, very sorry hearing that you are having to deal with this. It has been many years since my wife and I had to think about the whole fertility deal ... more or less morbid humor once in a blue moon at this point when it does come up.

I certainly am not going to be an expert on the insurance coverage that you'll have, but if I had one takeaway from our experience it would be to get the most comprehensive testing done that you can initially. We had the opportunity to go through four rounds of IVF, but it was only after three had failed that we were referred to a sub-specialist who did the additional tests that highlighted why we basically had no shot in our first three tries. I understand why they don't necessarily break out every single test when you first come in, but we certainly would have liked to have had more than one IVF try with a non-zero chance of success.

We've now got a pretty amazing daughter through adoption. As you are starting to look at your options to extend the family, and the medical stuff becomes more and more expensive/daunting, this might be something to consider as an alternative. I know that wasn't something I was eager to consider while going down the IVF track, but if you are trying to assess stress management across financial/emotion/medical then maybe it is worth at least having somewhere on the radar.

Happy to discuss further by PMs if that is of interest. Best of luck to you and your family with this.