THE BEST WEEK EVER!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I find it funny that I never said we were keeping it - I alluded to it by saying "til then I have a 40 GB iPod", etc...but never came out and said whether or not we were keeping it. Yet every single person who has posted has assumed that we are...no one asked. Just jumped to either conclusion (that we were or we weren't) and started either attacking me or defending me. Interesting.

So we aren't supposed to draw any conclusions about anything you say unless you're very specific about it? So like maybe you robbed the store too, emptying the case registers at gunpoint ... since you didn't specifically say you didn't?

Sorry, but I don't see any conclusions being drawn that your own allusion doesn't support.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BigJohn&TheLions

They might not have even noticed it was gone.

Which has nothing to do with whether it's morally or ethically right to keep it.

Frankly, if the employee is that careless, he should lose his job.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

that's a heckuva nice week. and I thought my week was special because I found out nothing bad turned up on the MRI of my brain...

Nope. You win. The fact that you needed an MRI of your brain meant you thought something might be wrong. But it came back clean, so you win in a BIG WAY.

I know. I had the same situation a few years back. It's a great feeling.

[Eaglesfan27]

I think the natural implication in your post was that you were keeping it. Shrug. It looks I wasn't the only one who had that interpertation (which would explain why no one asked if you were planning on keeping it or not.)

[vtbub]

Apple isn't currently selling new 40's, 20 or 60 at Best Buy and Circuit City.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So we aren't supposed to draw any conclusions about anything you say unless you're very specific about it? So like maybe you robbed the store too, emptying the case registers at gunpoint ... since you didn't specifically say you didn't?

Sorry, but I don't see any conclusions being drawn that your own allusion doesn't support.

No, but the point is - no one said - "Oh My God, are you going to keep it?" Everyone said if you keep it you suck, or keep it and don't worry about the consequences. I just found it interesting. Not trying to justify, or defend anything.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Which has nothing to do with whether it's morally or ethically right to keep it.

Frankly, if the employee is that careless, he should lose his job.

if that was you JiMG, would you be willing to loose your job over it? Or are you preaching something that you wouldn't be willing to accept yourself?

[mrsimperless]

Wow. Leave the poor girl alone. She got a free iPod, good for her.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think the natural implication in your post was that you were keeping it. Shrug. It looks I wasn't the only one who had that interpertation (which would explain why no one asked if you were planning on keeping it or not.)

That was my point. I may have implied - but never said either way, and everyone overlooked that and made the assumption.

For the record - I'll bring it back tomorrow.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by BigJohn&TheLions

The Flying Spaghetti Monster would allow it.

Like I said, if you return the ipod you can get the kid in more trouble than if you keep it.

I worked at a gas station several years ago. I was counting my drawer and was about $20 over. I kept checking, but each tome came out the same. I pocketed the $20, not because I wanted it or needed it, but because I could get in trouble for being that far off. It turned out that one of the cash drops into the safe was $20 short... I couldn't admit to pocketing it, so I kept my mouth shut. I was wrong, butadmiting what happened would have just made the problem worse. (I even felt guilty enough about it to add a few extra bucks to the drawer for a few nights to make it up.)

Mistakes happen in retail. If they find out what the kid did it can bite him in the ass more than the ipod missing. They might not have even noticed it was gone.

I can tell you're a UofM fan, as they generally don't teach ethics there. Lot's of lawyers graduate from there and they have no remorse at all.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

That was my point. I may have implied - but never said either way, and everyone overlooked that and made the assumption.

For the record - I'll bring it back tomorrow.

Good for you if you do.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think the natural implication in your post was that you were keeping it. Shrug. It looks I wasn't the only one who had that interpertation (which would explain why no one asked if you were planning on keeping it or not.)

I'd say the celebratory nature of the original post makes that a very reasonable conclusion. And the later comment about "til then" makes the conclusion a slam dunk.

Further, if I understand how iPods work correctly, you have to load stuff onto them in order to get any use from them. If that's correct, then being giddy at the possession of one indicates either you're planning to keep it long-term or else you're going to invest time & energy loading stuff onto it, only to take it back after getting a few days use from it. And that just seems really stupid as far as I can see.

[mrsimperless]

oliegirl, don't take it back just because of FOFC. If you really were planning to take it back all along that's fine, but don't listen to these people. It's dangerous. Do you know how much money in video games, books and movies this place has cost me?

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

That was my point. I may have implied - but never said either way, and everyone overlooked that and made the assumption.

For the record - I'll bring it back tomorrow.

No your not

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd say the celebratory nature of the original post makes that a very reasonable conclusion. And the later comment about "til then" makes the conclusion a slam dunk.

Further, if I understand how iPods work correctly, you have to load stuff onto them in order to get any use from them. If that's correct, then being giddy at the possession of one indicates either you're planning to keep it long-term or else you're going to invest time & energy loading stuff onto it, only to take it back after getting a few days use from it. And that just seems really stupid as far as I can see.

My "til then" comment was at the initial judgement.

My giddiness was at the week in general - which is why I recapped it. Everything has gone well this week and I am on a "high"...any elation or giddiness was caused from that. I thought listing the weeks events would be enough but maybe I should have clarified.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

if that was you JiMG, would you be willing to loose your job over it? Or are you preaching something that you wouldn't be willing to accept yourself?

Well DT, I'd try to pay enough attention that I didn't fuck up like that in the first place. And if it got me fired, I can honestly say that my reaction would be " Sucks ... but there's nobody to blame but myself". BTDT, have even had occasion to use the phrase "I've been fired from better places than this".
But not once did I play "poor pitiful me" when the situation was my own fault.

Responsibility for actions DT -- it's not a slogan, it's not a catchphrase, it's a lifestyle.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by BigJohn&TheLions

The Flying Spaghetti Monster would allow it.

Like I said, if you return the ipod you can get the kid in more trouble than if you keep it.

I worked at a gas station several years ago. I was counting my drawer and was about $20 over. I kept checking, but each tome came out the same. I pocketed the $20, not because I wanted it or needed it, but because I could get in trouble for being that far off. It turned out that one of the cash drops into the safe was $20 short... I couldn't admit to pocketing it, so I kept my mouth shut. I was wrong, butadmiting what happened would have just made the problem worse. (I even felt guilty enough about it to add a few extra bucks to the drawer for a few nights to make it up.)

Mistakes happen in retail. If they find out what the kid did it can bite him in the ass more than the ipod missing. They might not have even noticed it was gone.

1) If your bosses would have fired you for being $20 short or over a single time, you were working at the wrong job. Even my stingy ass hotel had better policies than that.

2) You made a mistake. You REALIZED you made a mistake and at least attempted to make up for it. There is a big difference between that and this.

--------------------------------------------------------

olliegirl,

You first stated that you had a 40Gig IPod for free. Then you mae the statement: Well, when our house burns down, we wreck both cars, and get horribly sick all in a week - you can laugh. Till then - I have a free 40 GB iPod!

and followed that up with a post about Karma and how you were getting rewarded for all the crap that's happened to you.

Not one time in any of the posts (sarcasm or not) did I or do I (after rereading them) see any indication you were even thinking about the possiblity of returning it.

If you've went back to the store and returned the IPod, I apologize for my comments.

edit: I see your response and will take you at your word.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Y'know, I think these sort of threads are pretty revealing when it comes to the character behind some of the people that we see post otherwise neutral stuff a lot of the time.
I don't believe we've ever had one (i.e. a general ethics type thread) that didn't add at least one person to my list of ignorees. What's even more interesting is how many people who are already of ignore end up posting in them, they're like magnets for the judgementally challenged.

And FTR, Oliegirl isn't on ignore nor did this thread put her there.

[TLK]

I'd call the store and ask to talk to a manager. Explain the situation to him/her, and depending on what they tell you.... keep it or return it. At least you'll know where they stand.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well DT, I'd try to pay enough attention that I didn't fuck up like that in the first place. And if it got me fired, I can honestly say that my reaction would be " Sucks ... but there's nobody to blame but myself". BTDT, have even had occasion to use the phrase "I've been fired from better places than this".
But not once did I play "poor pitiful me" when the situation was my own fault.

Responsibility for actions DT -- it's not a slogan, it's not a catchphrase, it's a lifestyle.

oh believe me i know that. i was just seeing if you were full of hot air, or if you actually walked the walk that you talked. hope i'm not on your ignore list, that'd be no fun, cuz then you wouldn't see me agreeing with you

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by TheLionKing

I'd call the store and ask to talk to a manager. Explain the situation to him/her, and depending on what they tell you.... keep it or return it. At least you'll know where they stand.

In all seriousness, we can't really judge you. You have to do what you feel is right. Don't listen to the rest of the crew here. Who knows what they'd really do.

[Eaglesfan27]

By the way, congrats on all of the other wonderful things that have happened to you this week

[Dutch]

Just think, when you return it, you can buy it and still be up $6,700 this week.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

In all seriousness, we can't really judge you. You have to do what you feel is right. Don't listen to the rest of the crew here. Who knows what they'd really do.

I ordered a hard drive from Insight once (back when they sold to the public, and back when these things were a couple hundred apiece). UPS screwed up the shipping, and it bounced around a couple places before being shown as returned to Insight.

I call them up, they agree to send a new HD, it arrives a couple days later.

A week later, the original HD comes rolling in with a nice messed up shipping label (that probably caused all the heartaches). The UPS tracking summary on their website was really funny, as the drive made a couple of roundtrips across half the country before getting out of one facility and on to me. It looked like the originating facility was able to read the label, the intermediate facility wasn't, and they kept fighting over it.

But I digress. I called Insight the next day for instructions on how to return my "free" drive.

So that's what I'd REALLY do.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

and I thought my week was special because I found out nothing bad turned up on the MRI of my brain...

For most of us schmucks at FOFC that would make for a great week!

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

For most of us schmucks at FOFC that would make for a great week!

most of the schmucks at FOFC don't have brains.

/obvious

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

oh believe me i know that. i was just seeing if you were full of hot air, or if you actually walked the walk that you talked. hope i'm not on your ignore list, that'd be no fun, cuz then you wouldn't see me agreeing with you

If you saw me everyday, you'd know that I'm pretty much what you see is what you get. I've found that being consistent makes it a lot easier to keep your stories straight.

One of my favorite quotes comes from soldier-turned-author Dick Marcinko, from his Ten Commandments of Spec War
"2. I will treat you all alike - just like shit. "

I guess it helps remind me of the importance of being consistent

[cartman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Y'know, I think these sort of threads are pretty revealing when it comes to the character behind some of the people that we see post otherwise neutral stuff a lot of the time.
I don't believe we've ever had one (i.e. a general ethics type thread) that didn't add at least one person to my list of ignorees. What's even more interesting is how many people who are already of ignore end up posting in them, they're like magnets for the judgementally challenged.

EUREKA!!!!!

I've found the source of the board slowdowns. It's the servers bogging down from processing JiMG's ignore list...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

EUREKA!!!!!

I've found the source of the board slowdowns. It's the servers bogging down from processing JiMG's ignore list...

Damn, I never thought about that, but you may be onto something. I'll be mostly/totally offline tomorrow thru Monday, if the board speeds up, we'll know for sure.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Y'know, I think these sort of threads are pretty revealing when it comes to the character behind some of the people that we see post otherwise neutral stuff a lot of the time.
I don't believe we've ever had one (i.e. a general ethics type thread) that didn't add at least one person to my list of ignorees. What's even more interesting is how many people who are already of ignore end up posting in them, they're like magnets for the judgementally challenged.

And FTR, Oliegirl isn't on ignore nor did this thread put her there.

My bet was on DaddyTorgo getting added to the list.

I'm sure many of you are like me and worked in retail at some point. Mrs. kcchief19 still does. I think the visceral reaction many people had to the inference (and the inference was there) that olliegirl was keeping the iPod comes from that fact that many of us know that there is not such thing as a free iPod -- we all pay for it.

Typically shrink in most retail places from theft averages 3-5 percent. 3-5 percent of everything we spend on goods goes to cover the losses comanies incur due to theft in all forms.

BigJohn, it's true that overage in a register is a warning sign for theft. It's not that being over $20 on a register is a sign of carelessness -- it's that there is a correlation between overages and employee theft. At one place I worked, we were having some minor drawer shortages. This was a place where a number of people worked the same drawer, so it was difficult to trace to one person. One day, the drawer was over exactly $20 and when I compared that drawer to the shortages, it turned out that only one person had worked on all of the registers with problems. Turns out this woman was stealing a few dollars a day at the register, then was feeling guilty and tried to replace some of it.

In generally, if you get fired for making one mistake I think you're better off not working there -- people make mistakes, and if you're working for someone who doesn't understand that, then you're not working for a very good bass. If you get fired for making many mistakes, you have no one to blame but yourself. Therefore, there's no real downside to returning to the store and letting them know about the iPod.

I'm glad you're hinting at returning the iPod. Given your recent good fortune, I think it would be unfortunate to tarnish a very happy time by not returning the iPod.

[cartman]

Actually, there is such a thing as a free iPod. HP is giving me a 40GB iPod for helping out with the planning of their event in New Orleans in September.

The best part is, there is currently a pretty bitter lawsuit going on between my employer and HP!

[Neon_Chaos]

Well. If it were me, I'd return the iPod.

I didn't pay for it, it's not mine.

Being a catholic, I don't believe in karma. But I do believe in earning what I keep, and plain honesty.

Regardless of who made the mistake or what kind of trouble the guy who commited the mistake would be in if i returned/didn't return it, I'd think that returning it is the right thing to do, or returning it and then buying it.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I find it funny that I never said we were keeping it - I alluded to it by saying "til then I have a 40 GB iPod", etc...but never came out and said whether or not we were keeping it. Yet every single person who has posted has assumed that we are...no one asked. Just jumped to either conclusion (that we were or we weren't) and started either attacking me or defending me. Interesting.

I find it funny that you appear to have deleted your post in which you said that your 10 GB iPod was going on eBay.

It's, y'know, a little hard to blame people for jumping to conclusions when they see posts like that. Seeing that it was deleted just smells of CYA to me.

[RPI-Fan]

Typically shrink in most retail places from theft averages 3-5 percent. 3-5 percent of everything we spend on goods goes to cover the losses comanies incur due to theft in all forms.

Wow, those numbers are either wrong or can have shockingly big deviations.

I work in a $10mil retail store (our individual branch does $10mil a year), and our overall shrink numbers (not just from theft) are well below 1%.

[Deattribution]

The same people who would return it might also like sticking large objects into their anal cavities, it doesn't mean you should too.


She may or may have not hinted to at keeping, but she certainly didn't ask anyone what they'd do with it if it were them.

With that said, congrats on the great week - hope it continues onto many more.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I'm sure many of you are like me and worked in retail at some point. Mrs. kcchief19 still does. I think the visceral reaction many people had to the inference (and the inference was there) that olliegirl was keeping the iPod comes from that fact that many of us know that there is not such thing as a free iPod -- we all pay for it.

Typically shrink in most retail places from theft averages 3-5 percent. 3-5 percent of everything we spend on goods goes to cover the losses comanies incur due to theft in all forms.

and 20% is to overpay the salary and perks for some dumbass CEO (like Morgan Stanley paying $32 million for 3 days of work recently)...

[Draft Dodger]

oh, and my free iPod (one of 3 I've gotten gratis) works just fine, thanks.

[mrsimperless]

This whole thread is wrong.

It's wrong to keep the iPod.

It's wrong to now say she's going to return it, going so far as deleting/changing old threads that implied she would keep it.

It's wrong to be influenced in such a way or care so much about what people think on an internet message board. About a football game. With no graphics.

It's wrong to be so judgemental and attack her for keeping it. It's not as though she performed some malicious act of thievery to get the thing.

It's wrong for me to keep posting in this thread.


Anyway, I'll echo the congratulations on a good week. They seem too few and far between these days for me. I honestly do not care if you keep it, return it, or give it to a homeless midget. I just think you should be your own person and not worry so much about what these poeple here think. Nobody here is perfect, regardless of what they'd have you believe.

[Draft Dodger]

and mrsimperless is 110% correct

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by mrsimperless

This whole thread is wrong.

It's wrong to keep the iPod.

It's wrong to now say she's going to return it, going so far as deleting/changing old threads that implied she would keep it.

It's wrong to be influenced in such a way or care so much about what people think on an internet message board. About a football game. With no graphics.

It's wrong to be so judgemental and attack her for keeping it. It's not as though she performed some malicious act of thievery to get the thing.

It's wrong for me to keep posting in this thread.


Anyway, I'll echo the congratulations on a good week. They seem too few and far between these days for me. I honestly do not care if you keep it, return it, or give it to a homeless midget. I just think you should be your own person and not worry so much about what these poeple here think. Nobody here is perfect, regardless of what they'd have you believe.

You are perfect in every way.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

You are perfect in every way.

Dola.

I'm being honest. I love this guy. He's my hero.

Vote Mr. Simperless

[Peregrine]

You're keeping the iPod? Well, I wouldn't, at least without confirming that the manager meant to give it to you.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I can tell you're a UofM fan, as they generally don't teach ethics there. Lot's of lawyers graduate from there and they have no remorse at all.

Wait a second. I'm a UofM fan. I went there for undergrad. I also went there for law school. I also took ethics. I have remorse (though not for beating MSU in football so badly each year).

[thealmighty]

Jeeber says to take the iPod back...then go to the Olive Garden for a celebration dinner.

[thesloppy]

Plenty of people have weighed in on whetehr it's ethically proper to keep the iPod, but nobody has specifically addressed the legality of the situation. Because the iPod was packaged with a purchased item is it considered part of the purchase? I can fully admit to being a morally bankropt POS, and I have absolutely no legal knowledge on which to base my opinion, but to me this seems similar to getting an extra mcnugget in your order, are you ethically bound to take that mcnugget back as well, or are ethics dictated by monetary values? Is this a more serious situation only because of the possible repercussion to the manager who made the mistake in the first place?

How does this situation compare to:

Using a pop-up blocker to view and enjoy content without viewing the advertising that paid for said content?

Using a DVR or VCR to record and watch a program and skipping the advertising that paid for said program?

Cuttign and pasting the entirety of an article and emailing it to a friend so that they can enjoy the content without generating traffic for or vieiwng the advertising on the site that created the content?

Giving a verbal account of a baseball game without the express written consent of Major League Baseball?

Using an NFL logo pack in FOFC without the written consent of NFL properties?

Copying a photograph from ESPN itno an email to a friend or posting said image onto an internet forum?

Buying or downloading bootleg recordings of a favorite artist's live performance?

Sampling produce at the grocery store before deciding on your purchase?


I'm not equating the 'ethical weight' of all these actions, I just wonder how those that consider themselves highly ethical people approach the above situations. My personal ethics are a muddy shade of gray, rather than black or white, and I will admit that the ethics I apply to my own actions are often quite different ( and more elastic) than those I judge others by, but I am intrigued by those who follow a 'high moral code' and interested in how strictly they apply those morals. This is not to say that I doubt anybody's moral convictions in any way, I'm just generally intrigued as to how it affects the minutae of their daily lives in caomparison to my own.

Slightly OT: I like the idea of Karma in general, but it really rubs me the wrong way when people use it as a base for their actions. IF you take a certain course of action simply because your afraid of the possible karmic retributions then you're not applying any thought or ethics to the situation at all and simply acting out of fear which seems counter to the teachings on which Karma is based.

[Loren]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

That was my point. I may have implied - but never said either way, and everyone overlooked that and made the assumption.

For the record - I'll bring it back tomorrow.

i agree, dont take it back because a couple fofc PPL have to try to rag on you and can never just read over a post if they have nothing good to say about it...I do a lot of stuff for people, and i dont expect anything back but crap if something cool like what happened to you happens, and obviously its been happening all week, maybe it was just meant to be..good freakn karma to you it's an electronics store, they screw ppl over im sure on a daily basis..if you dont wanna keep it at all, give it to someone who could really use such a gift or donate it to charity..i couldve just walked away from the MRI place last week when the girl wasnt gonna charge us but i didnt, and look tonite the guy at the burger place gave me free fries...accept the good things in life..

[thealmighty]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

How does this situation compare to:

Using the "do her in the butt" quote without including a ©Franklinnoble.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by TroyF

And the way they give their thanks for this is to take a $300 item some store clerk made a mistake in giving them?

According to oliegirl, it wasn't just "some store clerk", it was the manager. If it was the store clerk, I could understand the position to take it back. Usually they are just kids, and kids make mistakes. They're supposed to much of the time in order to learn.

But it was the manager. You can roll your eyes all you want, to me that's a big difference. I don't think I would want someone managing my store who would absent mindedly give away a $300 iPod (well, probably less than $200 since if they just got the display, they got a used iPod without a manuel and standard accessories). But if it was a one time thing, then at least I would be understanding and let it slide. Especially if he or she raised to the ranks of manager without something like this happening before.

If the manager of the store loses his job over this, I would think that either 1) His boss is a huge asshat or 2) He's done this plenty of times before and should probably be fired.

I came within a hair of losing my job for that. Yep, I'm sure the guy was thrilled about his cheap motel stay and still laughs about it to this day. I shudder to think of how my stupidity combined with his dishonesty almost turned my college life into a living hell.

Really? A living hell? That was the one and only job available and you would have been eating out of dumpsters as a drop out if you got fired? Well if that was the case, you should have learned to use a calculator before taking the job.

[NoMyths]

Interesting watching the varieties of rationalization taking place.

Wasn't there a time when situations like this would have been viewed as a test, rather than "good karma" (esp. as this isn't exactly how karma works)?

[bbor]

So....my new car came with a cigarette lighter....i never paid for it..should i return it?