NHL 2018-19 Season

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Ultimately the cap alone is going to force some changes over the summer. Who stays and who goes may tell us something about what management feels the problems may have been. I don't expect Maurice to be let go, but if management does question the coaching I wouldn't be shocked to see one or more assistant's shown the door. From a player perspective some pieces will have to move, so it may be a little hard to know exactly whether any moves are purely market related and which are perhaps a bit more targeted towards the issues that plagued the team this season. But some moves (such as a trade involving Trouba) won't be shocking, whereas if perhaps if someone who is signed long-term or otherwise locked in for a couple more years gets moved out (either along with him or separately) that would be a bit of an eye-opener.

I long for the day when Charlie Huddy is gone. My gut feeling is that Maurice gives Huddy quite a bit of rope as far as which defenseman play, and the pairings.

The Jets actually have a worse record over the past two seasons with Kulikov than without. Despite this, Kulikov was in the lineup for the playoffs over Beaulieu, who arguably was the Jets best performing defenceman (right there with Trouba) between the trade deadline and Buff/Morrissey returning. No reason that they couldn't have kept Trouba-Beaulieu together, and played Chiarot with Myers (both played together in last year's playoffs and played some of their best hockey) while Morrissey and Byfuglien also have plenty of experience playing together.

I also think Trouba's game actually dropped off a bit once paired back with Morrissey. It was almost as if the extra confidence he has in Morrissey caused him to take unwarranted risks/pinches/etc.

[Vince, Pt. II]

This is insane in the Sharks/Knights game.

Eakin murders Pavelski with a cross check, 5 minute major while the Sharks are down 3-0 in the third. In the first four minutes of the power play, the Sharks score three goals and it's now 3-3.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Four. Make it four.

[Vince, Pt. II]

And Vegas ties it with 43 seconds left. Game 7 Overtime.

Playoff hockey is incredible.

[kingfc22]

That 3rd period was bananas.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

This is insane in the Sharks/Knights game.

Eakin murders Pavelski with a cross check, 5 minute major while the Sharks are down 3-0 in the third. In the first four minutes of the power play, the Sharks score three goals and it's now 3-3.

Murders, lol. The absolute worst call I've seen in a playoff series ever. There's at least 10 of those plays in every playoff game, but Pavelski is already playing with a head injury.

I hate both teams, no dog in the fight. But that was an absurd major. If anyone, they called it on the wrong player and I don't see how it can possibly be 5 just because the player had a pre-existing injury. Anybody else on the ice it's maybe 2 if the ref sees it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Probably not the worst call ever, but either tragically/comically over called.
2 mins, carry on.

Comically bad if VGS survives it.
Tragically bad if SJ gets rewarded for the ref panic major.

Officiating continues to be at epic fail proportions in pretty much all sports.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I am absolutely unable to be objective about it, so I'll sit this one out.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Eakin murders Pavelski with a cross check, 5 minute major while the Sharks are down 3-0 in the third. In the first four minutes of the power play, the Sharks score three goals and it's now 3-3.

You must be a Sharks fan. That was maybe 2 minutes at best. No way it should be 5.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I am absolutely unable to be objective about it, so I'll sit this one out.

Originally Posted by Lathum

You must be a Sharks fan. That was maybe 2 minutes at best. No way it should be 5.

I am a huge Sharks fan and Pavelski is my favorite player.

The "Eakin murders Pavelski" line in my original post had more to do with the outcome of the hit than the hit itself. Pavelski was out cold, there was all kinds of blood on the ice, and he had to be helped off the ice by multiple teammates.

The only thing debatable about the hit is the major/minor distinction. It was the rulebook-definition of a cross-check: contact made with the stick in both hands while the stick is not touching the ice.

With an evening of (little) sleep between myself and the incident, I can absolutely see why people are upset that it was called a 5-minute major penalty; having watched the replay it certainly wasn't a viciously dirty hit, nor did there seem to be intent to injure. It was awkwardly timed, and with both Eakin and Staszny hitting him, Pavelski lost his feet and came down on his head.

That being said, the rulebook says that the referee is to use their discretion based upon the severity of the contact. I find it incredibly hard to blame the referees for assessing a Major penalty after a player was rendered unconscious with blood on the ice.

As I've said before, I'm incredibly biased in this situation, so I get it if this comes off homer-ish.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

The only thing debatable about the hit is the major/minor distinction. It was the rulebook-definition of a cross-check: contact made with the stick in both hands while the stick is not touching the ice.

My brother and I have long opined that cross-checking is the most confusing rule in hockey. You're absolutely correct about the rulebook-definition. However, there are like 100 cross-checks a game that go totally uncalled. As a fan I honestly have no clue what is a penalty and what is not when it comes to cross-checking. It seems like if you get up in the guys face, that's mostly a penalty. Everything else is random. Especially if you are in the general area of the crease. At that point you can basically pummel your opponent with impunity. Except not always, because every once in a blue moon they decide to call a penalty.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

That being said, the rulebook says that the referee is to use their discretion based upon the severity of the contact. I find it incredibly hard to blame the referees for assessing a Major penalty after a player was rendered unconscious with blood on the ice.

See, this part is what I have the most problem with. I think it's very likely from the fact that nobody called a penalty on the ice, that the refs seemed to tell the Vegas coach and players that he cross checked him in the face and the fact that he got a 5 + game for the intent to injure that they saw the fact that a player was unconscious with blood on the ice and worked backwards from there to just assume it was bad (Marchessault's words there, not that he's an unbiased source)

That's just completely insane to me, especially as we can now spend 10 minutes minutely inspecting whether a players skate is a millimeter over the line for offside, but we can't see if a game changing major + game actually happened or not? Like Fidatelo said, these kinds of plays happen 100 times a game, especially in a playoff game. The outcome absolutely sucks for Pavelski but a freak injury doesn't make a 5 + game. It was an absolutely abysmal call and frankly by all accounts one the refs just blew by assuming something had happened that didn't.

That's even before we get into the uncomfortable issue that if Pavelski isn't already playing with major damage to his face maybe it doesn't look so bad, but that's a minor issue compared to the facts that the refs turned a playoff series based on a terrible assumption that could have been checked in 5 seconds.

And yeah, part of me thinks it's hilarious that the NHL's golden child who has been getting the calls for the better parts of two seasons got absolutely screwed in a game 7, so at least there's that. Not bitter

[Logan]

It was a horrendous, horrendous call. They saw the injury, knew something happened, and called the penalty based on that. It would have been a marginal at best minor penalty in the regular season that got blown to shit because Pavelski lost his balance from the initial contact and he got hit a second time which flipped him on his head out of awkwardness.

The quote from the ref supervisor after the game showed they got it wrong because he specifically referenced the hit causing a "significant injury". Problem was it wasn't the cross check that caused it, but the fall from the second contact. Not to mention that the rulebook says the call should be based on the severity of the contact.

Not a huge surprise though because DPS consistently punishes based on injury and not action so it was inevitable that it would start happening on the ice.

This is one of those things where if the NHL had anything approaching significant viewership, it would be the lead story everywhere like the NO non-PI call. Lucky for the NHL.

[Logan]

My post was hanging in "submitting a reply" for like a half hour and both of you ended up saying things better.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

See, this part is what I have the most problem with. I think it's very likely from the fact that nobody called a penalty on the ice, that the refs seemed to tell the Vegas coach and players that he cross checked him in the face and the fact that he got a 5 + game for the intent to injure that they saw the fact that a player was unconscious with blood on the ice and worked backwards from there to just assume it was bad (Marchessault's words there, not that he's an unbiased source)

That's just completely insane to me, especially as we can now spend 10 minutes minutely inspecting whether a players skate is a millimeter over the line for offside, but we can't see if a game changing major + game actually happened or not? Like Fidatelo said, these kinds of plays happen 100 times a game, especially in a playoff game. The outcome absolutely sucks for Pavelski but a freak injury doesn't make a 5 + game. It was an absolutely abysmal call and frankly by all accounts one the refs just blew by assuming something had happened that didn't.

That's even before we get into the uncomfortable issue that if Pavelski isn't already playing with major damage to his face maybe it doesn't look so bad, but that's a minor issue compared to the facts that the refs turned a playoff series based on a terrible assumption that could have been checked in 5 seconds.

And yeah, part of me thinks it's hilarious that the NHL's golden child who has been getting the calls for the better parts of two seasons got absolutely screwed in a game 7, so at least there's that. Not bitter

I completely agree.. the refs didn't see the initial contact (cross check) and only called it because of the outcome and, severity of it.


I try to think of these like a soccer referee because I'm a referee (and in no way am I implying I've even in the same world as these professionals) and if I don't see a hard foul and a kid is lying on the ground in pain, I go to my AR's to see if they saw anything, if not then I can't call what I don't see.


That being said, it's unfortunate they can't review something like that and it needs to change, at least for a 5 minute major call if they don't actually see it with their own eyes.

[Fidatelo]

As bad as this was, we need less replays, not more.

[bhlloy]

Eh... we certainly need less time spent on replays, but I'd happily switch the "linesmen go look at an iPad for 5 minutes to see if a player was millimeters offside" for "referees didn't see something but a player is unconscious on the ice and the fans are throwing shit on the ice, let's go quickly to Toronto to see if it's a major + game for intent to injure or not"

That's another hot taek that I haven't seen covered yet, if that crosscheck is a penalty (and it is by the letter of the law) then San Jose absolutely should have got 2 minutes for delay of game for the fans throwing stuff on the ice.

[Fidatelo]

The offside replay is the worst. But goalie interference is right there. I basically just want "did it go in or not?" replays, and those could be removed with tracking tech down the road.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

That being said, the rulebook says that the referee is to use their discretion based upon the severity of the contact. I find it incredibly hard to blame the referees for assessing a Major penalty after a player was rendered unconscious with blood on the ice.

If the difference between a minor and a major is really only the severity of the contact, then ya, that was called as intended.

It'd be kind of similar to MMA, or battery in the criminal justice system. Where if you commit a penalty, no matter how mildly, your responsibility is based on the outcome. If the MMA fighter you commit a mild foul against can't continue, you lose by DQ, if he can, there's no penalty at all.

I don't think that's a GOOD rule in a sport like hockey, or if that's how refs usually call it, but if that's the rule, then they're supposed to be looking at impact and not degree of initial fault.

[Logan]

Except the severity of the contact would have been viewed as minimal at best if Pavelski didn't stumble from it, into the path of Stastny, who while not committing a penalty unfortunately managed to continue to redirect his fall in a worse way that led to him landing on his head.

If Stastny wasn't there, Pavelski falls on his ass and IMO they wouldn't have even called a 2 min penalty because it would have been so uneventful. All with the same level of "severity of contact", and that's the problem.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

Except the severity of the contact would have been viewed as minimal at best if Pavelski didn't stumble from it, into the path of Stastny, who while not committing a penalty unfortunately managed to continue to redirect his fall in a worse way that led to him landing on his head.

If Stastny wasn't there, Pavelski falls on his ass and IMO they wouldn't have even called a 2 min penalty because it would have been so uneventful. All with the same level of "severity of contact", and that's the problem.

But he wouldn't have fallen at all if not for the initial penalty. At what point do you cut off the chain of causation?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

If Stastny wasn't there, Pavelski falls on his ass and IMO they wouldn't have even called a 2 min penalty because it would have been so uneventful. All with the same level of "severity of contact", and that's the problem.

I think it might have gotten 2 mins, but that's the end of it.

Instead, we got what we got. Such is life when there are attempts to turn a contact sport into a non-contact sport.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

But he wouldn't have fallen at all if not for the initial penalty. At what point do you cut off the chain of causation?

There isn't supposed to be any causation at all. The contact should result in the same penalty (or lack of a penalty) whether he ended up falling straight onto his ass, stayed upright on his skates, or did a somersault afterwards.

Guys get called for cross-checking very frequently even if the guy they are hitting barely budged.

[MizzouRah]

Still no excuse for Vegas who's up 3 goals with like 10 minutes left. They kill it off or allow 2 goals or less and it's not talked about that much except how the player's health is.

I lean more towards one call never defines an outcome.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I lean more towards one call never defines an outcome.

[bronconick]

They'll probably review majors next year which college has been doing with contact to the head

[Logan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Still no excuse for Vegas who's up 3 goals with like 10 minutes left. They kill it off or allow 2 goals or less and it's not talked about that much except how the player's health is.

I lean more towards one call never defines an outcome.

Agreed, the refs weren't the ones on the PK and my thoughts aren't intended to take away what was a ridiculous effort by SJ to put those four in.

That being said, I think being tasked to kill off a 5 min major deep in the 3rd period of a game 7 ranks pretty high up on the "really hard to do" list just from an energy and ability to execute standpoint. I mean...it's a quarter of a period where the amount of time you're actually defending probably makes it feel like half of a period comparatively.

But also to that point, Gallant didn't help himself by not calling a timeout during any of it and I don't know enough about the Vegas team to know if he was doing a good enough job rotating his PKers to put themselves in the best position to kill it off.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Logan

But also to that point, Gallant didn't help himself by not calling a timeout during any of it and I don't know enough about the Vegas team to know if he was doing a good enough job rotating his PKers to put themselves in the best position to kill it off.

Bellemare was out before the game and Eakin getting the game penalty left VGK with basically 2 guys who took any fair amount of faceoffs during the season.

The one loss that no one really notices with the penalty was losing Eakin. Bellemare and Eakin are 2 of the 3 centers that play on penalty kills and it left Karlsson and people who hadn't played much on the PK suddenly. You suddenly had guys in weird line combos on the PK (forwards not use to being out there) for 5 mins and they couldn't figure it out.

It killed VGK versus the Jets and Capitals last year and came back to bite us for 5 mins this year.

[Carman Bulldog]

I don't have a team in this series either but that one call didn't impact the series anymore than the Couture goalie interference penalty / disallowed goal in game two or the Eakin high stick goal last night. I'd argue that when goals are incorrectly allowed or disallowed, that's a much greater impact than a penalty, which only has the potential for a goal (or four).

Speaking of debatable penalties, that slashing penalty against San Jose in double overtime of game 6 was also pretty questionable. One could claim that it could have just as easily decided the series but the Sharks didn't let it.

There is way more than one call that impacts a series. Vegas had plenty throughout that benefited them. Their fans need to stop the whining.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Logan

There isn't supposed to be any causation at all. The contact should result in the same penalty (or lack of a penalty) whether he ended up falling straight onto his ass, stayed upright on his skates, or did a somersault afterwards.

Unless referring strictly to cross-checking, this is untrue and causation is a factor in almost every single penalty. Many times it's prescribed right in the rule book. For instance, accidentally high-sticking a guy in the face is a two-minute minor. However, if that same action causes an injury (usually blood), then it becomes a double minor.

Hooking is also usually a two-minute minor. Take a hooking penalty that injures an opponent and it's a five minute major (Rule 55.3) and an automatic game misconduct. So, for example, if you hook a guy and cause him to fall awkwardly into the boards resulting in him knocking his head off the ice or boards and going unconscious, that's a five minute major. It's a freak result and there's no intent there but it's right in the rule book.

Elbow a guy in the head and he doesn't go down... probably a two-minute minor... same action and it leads to an injury to his head or face and that's a mandatory major.

Slashing a guy is a two-minute minor but if that same slash you delivered leads to an injury, then a major and a game misconduct must be called (rule 61.5).

If Eakin's actions had been a hook or a slash, then it would have been the correct call because of the way the rule book is worded. Cross-checking is somewhat different as has been pointed out and based on "the severity of the contact" (which itself is different from boarding or charging which is based on the "degree of violence").

I don't necessarily think it was a great call but neither am I convinced that it was wrong. It just depends on if the "severity of the contact" includes the resulting outcome of that contact or just the contact itself, that being the point at which the stick makes contact with the body.

[kingfc22]

For all the bitching yesterday, the refs just flat out missed a Delay of Game call in OT as the Caps player just air mailed the puck out of play from clearly inside his own zone.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

For all the bitching yesterday, the refs just flat out missed a Delay of Game call in OT as the Caps player just air mailed the puck out of play from clearly inside his own zone.

Saw that.. although this one will never be talked about as the Canes prevail in OT!!!


Justin Williams is one hell of a player and has 15 points in Game 7's, which nobody has ever done.

[Fidatelo]

I think the best thing about that cross-checking major was the necromancy it performed on this thread! Hockey talk again!

[Carman Bulldog]

Yeah, I also noticed that missed delay of game call. It seems like the refs should have known where the guy was because they conferred about it but then decided not to call it because he was relatively close to the blueline and didn't want to impact the game. But then the Canes get called in the second OT for the exact same thing. I thought for sure that the Caps were going to score on their powerplay and we would have another controversy. It turned out okay in the end though for Carolina.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Yeah, I also noticed that missed delay of game call. It seems like the refs should have known where the guy was because they conferred about it but then decided not to call it because he was relatively close to the blueline and didn't want to impact the game. But then the Canes get called in the second OT for the exact same thing. I thought for sure that the Caps were going to score on their powerplay and we would have another controversy. It turned out okay in the end though for Carolina.

Blows my mind they don't replay those.. took the first replay on TV to see it was clearly before the blue line. Would have taken 5 seconds.


I want a Hurricanes vs Blues Stanley Cup playoff!

[murrayyyyy]

interesting choices for round 2...

O’Halloran and Furlatt officiated Game 7 between the Sharks and Golden Knights, which included a pivotal major penalty call against Vegas; San Jose scored four times on the ensuing power play en route to a 5-4 win. O’Halloran hasn’t missed a Conference Final round in over a decade.

I'm sure it's just luck of the draw...

[Logan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Blows my mind they don't replay those.. took the first replay on TV to see it was clearly before the blue line. Would have taken 5 seconds.


I want a Hurricanes vs Blues Stanley Cup playoff!

Probably the weirdness of the play that caused them to miss it. The vast majority of times that call gets made because a guy is pressured as he tries to clear it and it goes out within the defensive zone or in the neutral zone. Every now and then it comes from still deep in the zone but there isn't pressure, and it's a true accident.

But during a pressure free skate out of the zone, sending the puck all the way across the ice to go over the boards and almost into the offensive zone has to be pretty rare. Doesn't excuse missing it of course.

[JonInMiddleGA]

NHL apologizes to Vegas for major penalty call

[Logan]

Shocker.

[BigDPW]

I am so happy that my Canes won game 7 last night! Could barely get to sleep after that game I was so stoked. I have a lot of respect for Ovechkin's skill/talent but his goon nature really showed up in this series (Game 6 and fighting/concussing Svechnikov). After the Jordan Stall goal last night early 3rd period the Canes really seemed to mostly control the game/have the momentum/have more desire. Was so pissed about the non-delay of game call and then our penalty for same (though much more obvious) in OT. Was so happy to kill that penalty off in OT and not have that bite us in the rear.

Looking forward to facing off with the Isles on Friday! Lets Go Canes!

[tarcone]

If you are not watching game 7 of the Blues and Stars, you should be. About to go to OT tied at 1.

Blues are dominating but Bishop is standing on his head. Blues have out shot Dallas 31-4 since the 1st period

LETS GO BLUES

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by tarcone

If you are not watching game 7 of the Blues and Stars, you should be. About to go to OT tied at 1.

Blues are dominating but Bishop is standing on his head. Blues have out shot Dallas 31-4 since the 1st period

LETS GO BLUES

What a freaking GAME!!! Maroon with the game winner!

[bhlloy]

That was a great game. I'm pretty surprised the Blues won it, usually when you have a goalie stand on his head like that and one team just can't get the puck over the line for 3+ periods the other team wins it in OT.

Very happy for Maroon as a Ducks fan, a player who has had to overcome quite a bit in his career. And the Blues winning the cup is far more palatable to me than the other options (I'd be OK with Colorado, anybody but the Sharks please)

[Fidatelo]

It's funny, I haven't watched more than a period of hockey since the Jets were eliminated. After watching the majority of 82 regular season games plus the playoffs it was like someone let all the air out of my tires and now I can't get rolling again.

On the plus side, there is now grass and sunshine to enjoy!

[MizzouRah]

Heck of a game tonight Blues!!!

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Heck of a game tonight Blues!!!

They really respond after a clunker dont they?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by tarcone

They really respond after a clunker dont they?

Yes.. but when SJ tied it up at 2-2 with Petro giving away the puck on a PP I thought we were in serious trouble.


What a remarkable story Binnington is.. he's been our rock during some of our worst times.

[Galaril]

And Bruins quietly win six straight playoff games. First time since 1978.

[albionmoonlight]

It’s been a really fun run with the Canes. With no other major league teams here, the Triangle really gets behind them. But the Bruins are just better at hockey, which is turning into a real problem this series.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It’s been a really fun run with the Canes. With no other major league teams here, the Triangle really gets behind them. But the Bruins are just better at hockey, which is turning into a real problem this series.

Boston sports teams dominant lately...