SI's 100 Greatest Moments in Sports History

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by oykib

Ask ten people and three couldn't tell you the US goalkeeper's name. I think if it was a major event, most sports fans should be able to tell you the major players.

How many could tell you the players were on the Miracle on Ice... Eruzone (sp?) and..... (IIRC Neal Broten was the on the team, but I only know that since he was on the 1995 Devils Stanley Cup winning team)?

I'm sure more than 3 out of 10 people know the name Mia Hamm than over anyone on the Miracle on Ice team... including Coach Herb Brooks.

[Umbrella]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

How many could tell you the players were on the Miracle on Ice... Eruzone (sp?) and..... (IIRC Neal Broten was the on the team, but I only know that since he was on the 1995 Devils Stanley Cup winning team)?

I'm sure more than 3 out of 10 people know the name Mia Hamm than over anyone on the Miracle on Ice team... including Coach Herb Brooks.

Jim Craig is in a corner weeping.

[Groundhog]

I'm not even positive that I'd ever heard of the 'Miracle on Ice' before this list.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'm not even positive that I'd ever heard of the 'Miracle on Ice' before this list.

What kind of American are you?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

What kind of American are you?

Heh.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

If korme's post was sincere and not sarcastic, then...
I just dont know what to say.

If "fine corner back" is the standard for live forever...well that list needs to grow exponentially.

I don't think Korme was arguing that part, just saying (correctly) that Malcolm Butler wasn't a scrub street FA like Hank Poteat or David Tyree. To the shock of most NE fans, he was a fairly legitimate #1 CB in his second season, and if you haven't heard of him since you're either exaggerating for effect or you're intentionally avoiding any Patriots games or coverage. I don't know where to rank the exact moment because of my obvious huge bias (plus recency bias), but I do think that play will stand the test of time in that SB pantheon and is in the current top 3 with the Tyree catch and The Catch. It's also not Larry Brown or Dexter Jackson picking off a couple passes in a blowout, it was literally like a 90% victory percentage swing in the last 30 seconds, and it was a Super Bowl between two teams in the midst of strong runs, not one like Santonio Holmes between two fairly forgettable SB teams.

It's also clear this list is meant for discussion and has vague criteria, so they finally roped me in, but no way I'd have the 1958 title game or SB3 in the top 10 (and I'm not even sure Namath's guarantee qualifies as a moment.) Those are things that have taken on mythical qualities, but I'd have the Tyree catch an easy #1 of actual NFL moments. I'd also take that Vinatieri kick off and replace it with his game tying one vs Oakland or even the tuck rule play itself.

Originally Posted by digamma

Well, when you reduce the moment to "a chick took off her shirt and she was wearing a sports bra. Heh heh, boner!" it sort of shows what women's sports are up against.

I've always hated that that was the iconic moment, not her scoring the goal, or Scurry making a save, or somebody actually doing something athletic. And that wasn't just mouthbreathers or people trying to downplay it - there were/are plenty of people on the "it's a huge moment" side of the ledger who spent time focusing on how her being in a sports bra was a sign of women's liberation or female empowerment or whatever. Would you ever say that Cristiano Ronaldo took his shirt off, or Michael Phelps stood up out of the pool "to reveal that the rest of him was golden too." No - show the goal itself. Focus on the actual athletic feat.

[nol]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I don't think Korme was arguing that part, just saying (correctly) that Malcolm Butler wasn't a scrub street FA like Hank Poteat or David Tyree.

It was more that he's not some legendary player who will stand the test of time. People will remember the Bulls title with Jordan's last shot more than they do the ones where he passed it off to Steve Kerr or John Paxson. If Peyton Manning had led a last-minute game-winning drive in this year's Super Bowl, it certainly would've been considered a more memorable/greater moment than it ultimately will be.

I've always hated that that was the iconic moment, not her scoring the goal, or Scurry making a save, or somebody actually doing something athletic. And that wasn't just mouthbreathers or people trying to downplay it - there were/are plenty of people on the "it's a huge moment" side of the ledger who spent time focusing on how her being in a sports bra was a sign of women's liberation or female empowerment or whatever. Would you ever say that Cristiano Ronaldo took his shirt off, or Michael Phelps stood up out of the pool "to reveal that the rest of him was golden too." No - show the goal itself. Focus on the actual athletic feat.

It was certainly relevant because on the opposite side of the coin from "hubba hubba look at those women in dem skimpy uniforms" are those who feel as though a woman who excels in a sport is a freak and less of a woman (see Brittney Griner); these are the type of people who in the past would have discouraged their daughter from participating in sports (especially team sports) for fear of them getting turned into a lesbian or some similarly paternalistic attitude. So yeah, I'd say it had an effect in that regard, which borne out by the increased amount of participation in athletics.

[ColtCrazy]

To me, the Butler pick is so high because of its newness. 22 spots ahead of the Immaculate Reception? Please. Also, why is a field goal on the list? Trust me, I love Vinatieri, but it's a field goal. And if you are putting his on here, I'd argue the Tuck Rule kick in the snow was bigger as it started their whole run. But it's a field goal. What about Buffalo's comeback in 1992? Colts in 2006? Those were great playoff moments.

And yeah, it's an American centric list. I think it would be impossible to make a world greatest sports list because of cultural bias. The Hand of God is hardly the best soccer moment ever, but it's one that's known over here. I agree, UEFA 1999 is a bigger moment. Or Liverpool's 3 goal comeback in 2005. Those are fantastic moments.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

How many could tell you the players were on the Miracle on Ice... Eruzone (sp?) and..... (IIRC Neal Broten was the on the team, but I only know that since he was on the 1995 Devils Stanley Cup winning team)?

I'm sure more than 3 out of 10 people know the name Mia Hamm than over anyone on the Miracle on Ice team... including Coach Herb Brooks.

But more cared about the hockey team.

Hamm is better known for her strip tease. Otherwise it was five minutes of fame with anyone over the age of 12.

[nol]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But more cared about the hockey team.

Hamm is better known for her strip tease. Otherwise it was five minutes of fame with anyone over the age of 12.

Now players besides Brandi Chastain who never took their shirt off and have never done so much as pose in a swimsuit are being reduced to sex objects! Jim has possibly been one-upped.

Anyway, exactly zero people have even claimed it was a more significant moment than the Miracle on Ice. They're just pointing out that "can the average sports fan name every single player, coach, opponent, and stat from the sporting event in question?" is a ridiculous criterion that would disqualify every single sporting event that took place more than a week ago and that it says more about the people who are holding the most prominent women's sporting event and none of the others up to that type of scrutiny.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

How many could tell you the players were on the Miracle on Ice... Eruzone (sp?) and..... (IIRC Neal Broten was the on the team, but I only know that since he was on the 1995 Devils Stanley Cup winning team)?

I'm sure more than 3 out of 10 people know the name Mia Hamm than over anyone on the Miracle on Ice team... including Coach Herb Brooks.

Shameless name drop. One of the Soviet players in that game,Sergei Makarov, daughter is a current student of mine. I asked her if she was going to see him during the holidays, she said, "no, he has to play in a hockey game with Putin."

[oykib]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

How many could tell you the players were on the Miracle on Ice... Eruzone (sp?) and..... (IIRC Neal Broten was the on the team, but I only know that since he was on the 1995 Devils Stanley Cup winning team)?

I'm sure more than 3 out of 10 people know the name Mia Hamm than over anyone on the Miracle on Ice team... including Coach Herb Brooks.

We were mostly adults here when that soccer final went to penalties. Most of us on this board were not alive for the Miracle on Ice. But I also think the Miracle on Ice has lost some of its juice because the cold war ended over a generation ago.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by nol

It was more that he's not some legendary player who will stand the test of time. People will remember the Bulls title with Jordan's last shot more than they do the ones where he passed it off to Steve Kerr or John Paxson. If Peyton Manning had led a last-minute game-winning drive in this year's Super Bowl, it certainly would've been considered a more memorable/greater moment than it ultimately will be.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Most of us have already forgotten the name Malcolm Butler, FWIW. I had no idea who that was.

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Is he (a fine corner) though? Or is he just going to end up like that guy from Dallas that intercepted Neil O'Donnell twice in that one Super Bowl, whose name I have forgotten... and who ended up being celebrated as a great quite wrongly.

So we've got the two people back to back posting this. I didn't even want to get in to arguing the moments list because clearly it's subjective (I'd argue that the word Moments implies a specific play or small segment of game action, and something like Jackie Robinson should be a top 100 Events list, but keeping the criteria vague does help generate arguments and pageviews!), I just wanted to defend my boy Butler. I've seen enough CB's plateau or fall off for the Patriots to avoid projecting multiple pro bowls for the future, but after all the offseason worries about our secondary they stuck Butler on all opposing #1's (with a little more help than they gave Revis) and he still graded out as a top 25 CB. I wouldn't expect a group of random people to remember his name or bring this up with most groups, but I thought FOFC was a slightly higher standard!

Even if he was a Hank Poteat or flames out, like others including Korme also said, the name David Tyree will ALWAYS ring out. And he was atrocious. Also, I admitted to my homer bias and some recency effect, but this wasn't just some play. It was a pick on 2nd down at the 1 with 26 seconds left in a 4 point game! It literally changed the outcome of the Super Bowl winner double any other play in history. All the other plays people bring up either came in a tie game where the possessing team wasn't in danger of losing in regulation (or in the Titans case where they could tie the score and go to OT), or occurred in earlier games (the immaculate reception, holy roller, etc). That pick basically singlehandedly decided a Super Bowl between two pretty good teams trying to cement a legacy (Seattle as back to back champs and a potential dynasty, NE as the greatest run in modern pro football history, but a franchise that for all our success hadn't won a Lombardi trophy since 2004 (or Spygate)... I hope that's not Brady/Belichick's last one, but in 20 years it'll be remembered as a fitting bookend and "the end of the run" if so.) Whether it was by Darrelle Revis, Malcolm Butler, or Darius Butler, it's on any list of NFL moments.

Shucks, if Seattle had scored the Jermaine Kearse catch would probably be right up there just below Tyree's!

It was certainly relevant because on the opposite side of the coin from "hubba hubba look at those women in dem skimpy uniforms" are those who feel as though a woman who excels in a sport is a freak and less of a woman (see Brittney Griner); these are the type of people who in the past would have discouraged their daughter from participating in sports (especially team sports) for fear of them getting turned into a lesbian or some similarly paternalistic attitude. So yeah, I'd say it had an effect in that regard, which borne out by the increased amount of participation in athletics.

Who are these strawmen? Everyone I knew grew up playing coed soccer before that WC, and the participation rates haven't changed since 2000. The US Women winning the 1999 World Cup wasn't a watershed moment that led to young girls playing sports, it was the culmination of a massive boom that began around the time Title IX was implemented. Why was the US the dominant favorite when so many other countries have better, longer, soccer cultures? Because we were the first country to embrace female participation in youth sports!

And yeah, Brittney Griner is a freak. Just like LeBron is a freak, or Zach Lavine is a freak, or Boban Marjanovic is a freak, or Serena Williams is a freak, or anyone else who is literally the tallest/best athlete in their field. If you want to point out a double standard, at least use someone like Skylar Diggins who was/is still constantly objectified despite being a really talented player!

[Butter]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

So we've got the two people back to back posting this. I didn't even want to get in to arguing the moments list because clearly it's subjective (I'd argue that the word Moments implies a specific play or small segment of game action, and something like Jackie Robinson should be a top 100 Events list, but keeping the criteria vague does help generate arguments and pageviews!), I just wanted to defend my boy Butler. I've seen enough CB's plateau or fall off for the Patriots to avoid projecting multiple pro bowls for the future, but after all the offseason worries about our secondary they stuck Butler on all opposing #1's (with a little more help than they gave Revis) and he still graded out as a top 25 CB. I wouldn't expect a group of random people to remember his name or bring this up with most groups, but I thought FOFC was a slightly higher standard!

It's definitely on the list of greatest NFL moments. As a top-100 sports moment of ALL TIME? I don't think so.

Maybe hyperbole that I won't remember his name in another year, but in another 5 years.

And "top 25 CB?" So he was like among the worst #1 CBs? That's not exactly high praise.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

It's definitely on the list of greatest NFL moments. As a top-100 sports moment of ALL TIME? I don't think so.

I mean, if you want to make a true global list or you want to use SI's weird vague criteria where an entire game or Olympics can count as a moment maybe, but it's by far the most decisive play in Super Bowl history and it occurred in the most watched Super Bowl (and thus most watched sporting event in American history.) And it was a pretty phenomenal play from the attention to detail to the read and break to the catch, although I probably appreciate it more than non-Pats fans

Maybe hyperbole that I won't remember his name in another year, but in another 5 years.

And "top 25 CB?" So he was like among the worst #1 CBs? That's not exactly high praise.

When you're covering Julio Jones and ODB while Logan Ryan is covering Roddy White and Preston Parker and you're both being graded on the same scale it's pretty good. He was one of 8 CB's selected for the Pro Bowl if that sounds better (I usually skip Pro Bowl choices, but I think it's fair to say Butler wasn't an older guy coasting in on reputation.) Especially for a 2nd year UDFA who basically didn't play until the 2nd half of that Super Bowl.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by oykib

Most of us on this board were not alive for the Miracle on Ice.

Hmm. Gotta find one of our "how old are you?" threads. I'm not so sure about that one.

----

I'm finding that the older I get, the less detail I am remembering about these things. Yeah, I probably would have come up with Scurry given a decent amount of time. Not so sure on Butler, even if he's some UBER STUD YOUNG CB that everyone should know. I hear the name "Butler" and I still instinctively think, "Caron?" But shoot - I largely root for generalities these days. I don't think I could tell you who the Eagles CB were last year and that's "my" team. (Though in fairness I did drop the Sunday Ticket, so I didn't see many games. Thankfully.) I'm lucky if I could tell you who won three SB ago.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by oykib

We were mostly adults here when that soccer final went to penalties. Most of us on this board were not alive for the Miracle on Ice. But I also think the Miracle on Ice has lost some of its juice because the cold war ended over a generation ago.

I think another problem is this game has been fluffed up in people's minds. From the amount of people who say it was for the gold medal to the amount of people who think they watched it live (it was tape delayed). I'm 99% sure I watched the replay on Saturday morning. This game was seen as so significant that they replayed a tape delayed game again the next day(probably because there was no internet so you might have found out in the paper the next morning). You will never have this happen in today's sports coverage world.

At the same time, I think the game is helped by the lack of TV coverage for sports at the time. Growing up in the south, it has to be one of my first experiences watching hockey. It was as foreign to me (and probably a lot of people at the time) as it would be if the US would beat New Zealand in the Rugby World Cup. The Olympics were a chance to see all sorts of sports that you would only see once every 4 years on TV compared to every sport having it's own channel now. There was a hidden romance with sporting events back then that I think is gone now with the ability to watch any game on my tablet around the world.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Not so sure on Butler, even if he's some UBER STUD YOUNG CB that everyone should know. I hear the name "Butler" and I still instinctively think, "Caron?" But shoot - I largely root for generalities these days. I don't think I could tell you who the Eagles CB were last year and that's "my" team. (Though in fairness I did drop the Sunday Ticket, so I didn't see many games. Thankfully.) I'm lucky if I could tell you who won three SB ago.

Sorry guys. Figured a higher percentage of the posters on a board revolving around a football GM text sim would have a decent knowledge of current Pro Bowlers. My bad!

[flere-imsaho]

Oh snap!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

And yeah, it's an American centric list. I think it would be impossible to make a world greatest sports list because of cultural bias. The Hand of God is hardly the best soccer moment ever, but it's one that's known over here. I agree, UEFA 1999 is a bigger moment. Or Liverpool's 3 goal comeback in 2005. Those are fantastic moments.

Though, point of order, the Maradona goal pick wasn't the Hand of God, it was the Goal of the Century - the one where he dribbled past the entire England team to score.

As for Butler, he may be a ProBowl CB, but so? I mean I've heard of Revis and Sherman, but since I merely have a passing interest in the NFL these days (I mean I can't even name the Falcons CBs and that is the team I supposedly root for), Butler doesn't really even register. And really for a top 100 list, where most fans aren't really focused in on one particular sport (clarify - they are focused on their favorite sport, but that sport may be MLB, NFL, NHL, soccer, etc - it's not one sport for all), isn't that supposed to matter?

[ISiddiqui]

For example, as a baseball fan, I'm quite surprised that Luis Gonzales's single off of (the almost untouchable) Mariano Rivera to win Game 7 of the 2001 World Series or the Red Sox finally winning the World Series in 2004 didn't make the list at all.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Sorry guys. Figured a higher percentage of the posters on a board revolving around a football GM text sim would have a decent knowledge of current Pro Bowlers. My bad!

It's a weird place to be in, memory-wise. I can watch games and recognize the players in context, a lot of times by number or face. But if I'm sitting here at my desk, I'm probably lucky if I can name five guys per team off the top of my head. The difference between recognition and recall, I guess.

I don't do fantasy. I don't care about pro bowls. I've been watching the NFL for 35 years, and maybe I just don't have room for the thousands of players that get churned through the league anymore. There's just too much other stuff going on.

(And, yeah - I'm in two FOF leagues. Which have 0 current NFL players in them. My fictional OOTP league doesn't help me remember MLBers, either.)

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

It's a weird place to be in, memory-wise. I can watch games and recognize the players in context, a lot of times by number or face. But if I'm sitting here at my desk, I'm probably lucky if I can name five guys per team off the top of my head. The difference between recognition and recall, I guess.

I don't do fantasy. I don't care about pro bowls. I've been watching the NFL for 35 years, and maybe I just don't have room for the thousands of players that get churned through the league anymore. There's just too much other stuff going on.

(And, yeah - I'm in two FOF leagues. Which have 0 current NFL players in them. My fictional OOTP league doesn't help me remember MLBers, either.)

We are in the exact same place here (minus no fof or ootp for me anymore)