2013-14 MLB Off Season Thread

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

How many three..err..two time Cy Young winners

Damn right.

[korme]

Bryan Price to be named Reds manager. Ok.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Let him go manage someone else.

You know this just means that Dusty Baker will be the new Dodgers manager, right? Be careful what you wish for...

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I saw that yesterday and $300M seems insane for any player, but especially a pitcher. I hope Uncle Neddy does it because if LA actually spent their money wisely, the rest of baseball could be in trouble.

They never said how it was structured. If it was truly set up as a "lifetime" deal, like 15 year contract and a lot of deferred money it makes more sense for Kershaw to go for like a 7 year contract that tops $200 mil and potentially makes him a free agent again at 33. If they're willing to pay Ethier $17m and Grienke $24.5m/year, Kershaw is probably worth $30m/year to LA.

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Dodgers lock up Cuban infielder.

Los Angeles Dodgers reach deal with Cuban infield prospect Alexander Guerrero | MLB.com: News

If Guerrero's getting $8m/year, I find it crazy the market for Abreu wasn't higher. And Robinson Cano can't be happy that deal got finalized - he'll probably still get the Yankees to bid against themselves like they did with A-Rod, but there's really no plausible big-market suitor at this point. (Maybe the Cubs if the owners feel the need to make a splash? Or Detroit if Illitch wants to completely mortgage the future?)

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

COME TO BOSTON TIMMAH!!!!!!

Why? He's got a ERA close to 5 over the last 2 years pitching in the NL West, and we've got all 6 starters coming back, plus good AAA depth with Workman+De La Rosa (if they don't keep them in the bullpen)/Webster/Ranaudo/Wright/Barnes/Owens.

Red Sox basically have 4 free agents, and I think all of them will get Qualifying Offers (a.k.a. the option to sign a 1-yr contract for around $14m, Sox get a supplemental 1st round pick if they sign elsewhere.) Joel Hanrahan's also gonna be an FA, so I wouldn't mind signing him on an incentive-laden deal - just please no more trades for closers.

- Ellsbury CF - love the guy when healthy, but he's gone and JBJ will take over. JBJ won't be as good as healthy Ellsbury, but for the $15-$20m/y savings you take the trade off. The big questions for teams chasing him is whether you think he's injury-prone or just missed 1.5 of the last 4 years due to fluke injuries (Beltre running into him, etc), and whether any of that power comes back (32 HR's in 2010 is literally half his career total).

- Napoli 1B - I was hoping for Jose Dariel Abreu here, who I think will be a legit 30-35 HR bat, but now we might as well re-sign Napoli on a 1-2 year deal. Other options are having a Nava/Carp platoon, or trading for someone (how down is SF on Brandon Belt?)

- Saltalamacchia C - Had an unsustainably high BABIP this year and his OBP will crater next year imo. If he signs the QO it's not the worst thing in the world because McCann is probably the only clearly better catcher out there, but I don't want him on a long-term deal and won't be sad if he signs elsewhere.

- Drew SS - Xander will be starting from Day 1 next year. Offer Drew the QO and make it clear he'll be in a platoon with Bogaerts/WMB, and I think he'll walk because he wants to be a starter, so we get that extra 1st round pick. On the off chance he does take the short-term money, we have great coverage at SS/3B and we can just trade him in spring training/early in the season if he's complaining.

[Chief Rum]

The four FAs are Ellsbury, Naps, Salt and Drew?

No way they all get qualifying. Only Ellsbury is likely to get one, and certainly only Ellsbury deserves one. Those others are all under $10 M/year players.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Napoli will certainly get one. Salty will most likely because I think they'd prefer 1/14 for him over a long term contract. Drew will be interesting because a QO will kill his market.

If an average player is going to get around 14/year in the upcoming market then Napoli will definitely get one.

If you think those are all sub-10M players I think you might be reading the market wrong.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Fangraphs did their free agent crowdsourcing project: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/fangr...7-free-agents/

Predictions are:
Ellsbury 6/112
Salty 4/44
Napoli 3/39
Drew 3/33

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Napoli will certainly get one. Salty will most likely because I think they'd prefer 1/14 for him over a long term contract. Drew will be interesting because a QO will kill his market.

If an average player is going to get around 14/year in the upcoming market then Napoli will definitely get one.

If you think those are all sub-10M players I think you might be reading the market wrong.

I think you might be reading your franchise wrong actually. It's not about average player salary, it's about relative worth. You're saying the Red Sox are willing to pay $56 M to those four players next year, at minimum, including a player with a young player ready to replace him in Drew, and a 1B/DH (he's not a C) who's only real attribute is he has some power in Napoli. And when you consider Ellsbury is more likely to nab a deal in the $18-20 M range, you're looking at $60 M next year for those four players.

Salt you might get that because he is a legit C with hitting ability, but even that, I don't think he is so much better than you could get signing a bargain basement guy for much cheaper, like $6 or $7 M.

I am pretty certain Ellsbury is the only guy in that group who will be over $14 M per year, even for one year.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Fangraphs did their free agent crowdsourcing project: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/fangr...7-free-agents/

Predictions are:
Ellsbury 6/112
Salty 4/44
Napoli 3/39
Drew 3/33

Only Ellsbury there projects to $14 M plus.

Do I see those players getting those deals from someone? Sure. But not the Red Sox. The Red Sox aren't going to want to offer $14 M to Drew for even 1 year when Bogarts is ready to go. There's too much risk Drew will actually accept the offer. And the Red Sox can replace Napoli and Salt with roughly comparable ability players for less than $14 M for one year or those deals above. They won't spend that money on those players, nor will they risk having those players return at $14 M in 2014 when that money is best spent elsewhere.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Ellsbury is gone, the QO is academic.

I guess we'll agree to disagree, but I think a large number of teams would love Napoli at 1/14. He's not a C - he didn't play a single inning at C. He was, however, a surprisingly good 1B in the field who hits.

Who is this bargain basement C or 1B we'd get for half the amount? We've got the money easily to fit both Nap and Salty on QO and they represent a much smaller risk than the guys below.

Catchers

Henry Blanco (42)
John Buck (33)
Hector Gimenez (31)
Ramon Hernandez (38)
Brian McCann (30)
Jose Molina (38)
Dioner Navarro (30)
Wil Nieves (36)
Miguel Olivo (35)
Brayan Pena (32)
A.J. Pierzynski (37)
Humberto Quintero (34)
Guillermo Quiroz (32)
Carlos Ruiz (35)
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (29)
Kelly Shoppach (34)
Geovany Soto (31)
Kurt Suzuki (30) - $8.5MM club option with a $650K buyout
Taylor Teagarden (30)
Yorvit Torrealba (35)

First basemen

Jeff Baker (33)
Yuniesky Betancourt (32)
Corey Hart (32)
Paul Konerko (38)
Casey Kotchman (31)
Brandon Laird (26)
Adam Lind (30) - $7MM club option with a $2MM buyout
James Loney (30)
Casey McGehee (31)
Kendrys Morales (30)
Justin Morneau (33)
Mike Napoli (32)
Lyle Overbay (37)
Carlos Pena (36)
Mark Reynolds (30)
Kevin Youkilis (35)

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Only Ellsbury there projects to $14 M plus.

Right, but the idea is the QO is a premium on a one year deal. Like the franchise tag.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Ellsbury is gone, the QO is academic.

I guess we'll agree to disagree, but I think a large number of teams would love Napoli at 1/14. He's not a C - he didn't play a single inning at C. He was, however, a surprisingly good 1B in the field who hits.

Who is this bargain basement C or 1B we'd get for half the amount? We've got the money easily to fit both Nap and Salty on QO and they represent a much smaller risk than the guys below.

Catchers

Henry Blanco (42)
John Buck (33)
Hector Gimenez (31)
Ramon Hernandez (38)
Brian McCann (30)
Jose Molina (38)
Dioner Navarro (30)
Wil Nieves (36)
Miguel Olivo (35)
Brayan Pena (32)
A.J. Pierzynski (37)
Humberto Quintero (34)
Guillermo Quiroz (32)
Carlos Ruiz (35)
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (29)
Kelly Shoppach (34)
Geovany Soto (31)
Kurt Suzuki (30) - $8.5MM club option with a $650K buyout
Taylor Teagarden (30)
Yorvit Torrealba (35)

First basemen

Jeff Baker (33)
Yuniesky Betancourt (32)
Corey Hart (32)
Paul Konerko (38)
Casey Kotchman (31)
Brandon Laird (26)
Adam Lind (30) - $7MM club option with a $2MM buyout
James Loney (30)
Casey McGehee (31)
Kendrys Morales (30)
Justin Morneau (33)
Mike Napoli (32)
Lyle Overbay (37)
Carlos Pena (36)
Mark Reynolds (30)
Kevin Youkilis (35)

I see quite a few players there who could be signed and provide roughly comparable production for less money than the QO to Napoli or Salt.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Right, but the idea is the QO is a premium on a one year deal. Like the franchise tag.

Yes, and there is risk in that. The risk that those players will accept those offers rather than test the market.

The Red Sox would be foolish to make those offers when they could fill those positions for less. I am actually stunned you think they would offer Drew $14 M when they have Bogaerts ready to go. The Red Sox are not a foolishly run organization. Giving Drew that money is akin to the crazy money they handed out to Lackey and Crawford a few years ago, when they were trying to keep up with the Yankees.

I'm certain they will make the offer to Ellsbury, and I could see them talking themselves into it on Salt. I am pretty certain they will not make those offers to Naps and Drew.

Keep in mind, I am not saying this just on this situation but also based on last year, the first year with this system. There weren't too many QOs extended, except for completely obvious multi-year FA candidates.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Fangraphs did their free agent crowdsourcing project: FanGraphs Crowd: The Top 47 Free Agents | FanGraphs Baseball

Predictions are:
Ellsbury 6/112
Salty 4/44
Napoli 3/39
Drew 3/33

I think FG's crowdsourcing is way low on the pitching side.

4/15 for Garza and 4/10-12 for Jimenez, Santana, Lincecum, and Nolasco- I'll take the over on at least 4 of the 5.

SI

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Other than Drew the Sox would love to have any of them back on a one year deal at 14M, so I think they all get it. I don't see the half-priced candidates you do. Maybe Hart, maybe Ruiz, but those are risks that could be easily avoided with QOs to the guys we already have.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm certain they will make the offer to Ellsbury, and I could see them talking themselves into it on Salt. I am pretty certain they will not make those offers to Naps and Drew.

Keep in mind, I am not saying this just on this situation but also based on last year, the first year with this system. There weren't too many QOs extended, except for completely obvious multi-year FA candidates.
...
I see quite a few players there who could be signed and provide roughly comparable production for less money than the QO to Napoli or Salt.

First, you're off on Napoli and Salty. I don't love watching either bat because of the high K%, but Napoli was basically tied for 5th in WAR among 1st basemen (with Belt/Encarnacion, after Davis/Votto/Golschmidt/Freeman) and actually had the best defensive numbers of any qualifying 1B, and Salty was tied with McCann and Lucroy for 6th best batting catcher (after Mauer/Molina/Castro/Posey), while being generally regarded as being marginally above average defensively. I wouldn't put money on Salty repeating those numbers, but Napoli's are pretty much right in line with career stats.

Napoli is a long-term risk due to the hip, but considering the Red Sox were willing to go 3/$39m before the hip came up, I think they'd have no problem doing 2/$26 structured the same way they renegotiated the contract ($5m base, $8m in easily reachable Games Played incentives), and would easily be willing to take the risk of a 1-year deal. No question he gets offered the QO, and 90% chance he comes back here on it or a 2-3 year deal with GP/PA incentives (10% chance some GM goes crazy and offers him 4/$50+ and he's gone.) James Loney was the only other FA 1B that came close to his numbers last year, and he was horrible in Boston, which plays into my lack of trust in him. Guys like Morneau, Konerko, Reynolds and Morales are demonstrably worse hitters than Napoli right now, and Corey Hart is coming off missing a whole season.

Salty I have much less trust in going forward (I think he's all power, no OBP, and had an outlier season), but I still think he's a very good bet to put up 2-2.5 WAR, the pitchers like him, and the Red Sox FO has shown a willingness to overpay a catcher like that. Again, no question Salty gets the QO, and I think the Red Sox try to sign him for something like 4/$40m before he hits FA. If he leaves, McCann is really the only thing close to a sure thing next season, and he'll probably get a 5-6 year contract (likely from the Yankees) that looks terrible by year 3.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yes, and there is risk in that. The risk that those players will accept those offers rather than test the market.

The Red Sox would be foolish to make those offers when they could fill those positions for less. I am actually stunned you think they would offer Drew $14 M when they have Bogaerts ready to go. The Red Sox are not a foolishly run organization. Giving Drew that money is akin to the crazy money they handed out to Lackey and Crawford a few years ago, when they were trying to keep up with the Yankees.

Drew is the one that's 50/50. Drew, again, is a guy I don't love to watch hit, but he basically finished tied for 5th in WAR among shortstops (although there were more SS close to him than 1B/C close to Napoli/Salty), after Tulo, Desmond, and then Simmons/Escobar who are up there solely on D. I think they do offer it to him under the assumption that he'll turn it down because he values being a starter more than a few million. Even if he doesn't we can afford to carry him at that number or trade him in ST/early in the season when some teams SS goes down.

A 1-year contract is nothing like the Crawford and Lackey deals (and the Lackey one will actually work out if he pitches near this season's numbers because we got an extra year at league minimum tacked on in 2015 when he missed 2012 with the labrum.) Starting around Cherington took over and it appeared the Red Sox had been/were getting burned by long-term deals, and really pursued last offseason/last August after the Nick Punto trade, the Red Sox have shown a clear willingness to overpay players up to $13m/y on short-term deals. Victorino, Napoli, Dempster, Drew were all looked at as overpays, but even the one that didn't work out in our favor (Dempster) is a small speed bump, since he's someone we can probably trade because he's only got 1 year left on his contract. Right now, Pedroia ($13-14m) and Buchholz (team options for 2016/17 at $13m) are the only 2 players signed past 2015, and the only others signed for even 2 years are Victorino ($13m) and Lackey (league minimum). Compare that to the Angels who have $106m committed to 5 players for 2016, or the Yankees who have $69m committed to A-Rod/Tex/CC in 2016.

[BishopMVP]

Team-building wise the Red Sox budget about $160-$170m for MLB salaries right now. I kind of ballpark it into 15 slots of $10m each - 9 fielding positions, bench, 5 starters and then $15m for relievers. We've got 5 spots covered by minsal pre-arb players (SS Bogaerts, 3B WMB, LF Nava, CF JBJ, SP4 Doubront), and the Red Sox philosophy now is to take that $45m in savings and spread it out to the other 10 positions so you can pay guys $13-14m at most every slot instead of throwing most of the extra at 1-2 $20m+ players. I don't think that's some kind of hard and fast rule where they wouldn't drop huge $ on a player entering his prime like Pedro/Kershaw/Price/Xander if he develops into a 25+ HR guy, but it seems to be a lot smarter to go for those shorter deals than try to sign the 30+ players that make it to free agency to long term, high $ deals. But they have absolutely no problem paying $13-$14m on 1/2 year deals, even at the expense of signing the same player to a 4/5 year deal at $10/$11m.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

(and the Lackey one will actually work out if he pitches near this season's numbers because we got an extra year at league minimum tacked on in 2015 when he missed 2012 with the labrum.)

I can't wait to see that one play out if Lackey has another good year. I imagine he'd hold out and not play for the minimum, and try to negotiate a multi-year deal.

[Logan]

That was a condition built into his contract? Interesting.

[lungs]

Rumor has it that the Brewers and Royals could get into a major bidding war for Yuniesky Betancourt. Current rumblings have the Brewers offering a six year contract with the Royals unwilling to go less than eight years.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Logan

That was a condition built into his contract? Interesting.

Yeah, although it was only if he spent close to a full season on the DL due to the labrum they had diagnosed as being weak during the physical. If he had some other injury it wouldn't have gone into effect.

Originally Posted by molson

I can't wait to see that one play out if Lackey has another good year. I imagine he'd hold out and not play for the minimum, and try to negotiate a multi-year deal.

Yeah, I imagine they'd re-negotiate too, but as long as that discount is built into the new extension the Red Sox come out ahead. Something like 2/16 or 3/27 would be pretty good for both sides under those circumstances.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I think FG's crowdsourcing is way low on the pitching side.

4/15 for Garza and 4/10-12 for Jimenez, Santana, Lincecum, and Nolasco- I'll take the over on at least 4 of the 5.

SI

You've already got one over, well over. Salaries are gonna be ridiculous this offseason.

[claphamsa]

2 years 35M for Timmy..... I was figuring he would get 2 years 6M...so clearly I know nothing. but that's an insane amount of money for a guy who cant actually start. (sub 0 WAR last 2 seasons)

[Chief Rum]

That's a lot of weed for that scratch.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Trey Hillman, Los Angeles Dodgers bench coach and friend of Don Mattingly, fired - ESPN Los Angeles

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Trey Hillman, Los Angeles Dodgers bench coach and friend of Don Mattingly, fired - ESPN Los Angeles

Oh, Trey. You never should have left the Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters

SI

[Suicane75]

I'd put even money on Girardi to the Cubs and Mattingly to the Yankees at this point.

[MrBug708]

Can the Dodgers just buy..er...trade for a manager?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I'd put even money on Girardi to the Cubs and Mattingly to the Yankees at this point.

Didn't Girardi already sign a contract with the Yankees?

[rowech]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Didn't Girardi already sign a contract with the Yankees?

Two weeks ago.

[Suicane75]

I should have gone to SportsDigs.

[korme]

Guy on local sportstalk (Lance McAlister, 700WLW) thinks Reds should offer Arroyo 1 yr/14M to get QO and he would reject it. I find it hard to believe Arroyo would reject that contract.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by korme

Guy on local sportstalk (Lance McAlister, 700WLW) thinks Reds should offer Arroyo 1 yr/14M to get QO and he would reject it. I find it hard to believe Arroyo would reject that contract.

Isn't Arroyo considered a pretty solid pitcher? He may get more elsewhere or has he been hurt?

I don't pay as close attention to baseball as I use to.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by korme

Guy on local sportstalk (Lance McAlister, 700WLW) thinks Reds should offer Arroyo 1 yr/14M to get QO and he would reject it. I find it hard to believe Arroyo would reject that contract.

He might, which makes it almost impossible to offer, but after the crazy Lincecum contract I'm not sure he couldn't find better. He's all but a guarantee of 200 innings slightly above league average. I could see someone offering 2/20.

[Logan]

Is this $14MM standard qualifying offer for every player new or have I just been asleep at the wheel?

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

It changes every year, was 13.3 last year. Last year they scrapped the A and B designations and just made it one offer for any player.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

SIAP, but Buster Olney tweeted yesterday that the Royals are shopping Billy Butler. Contract is $8M next year with a $12M option in 2015.

That's a trade that I could get behind. As much as I love Country Breakfast, he really hurts our flexibility from a lineup perspective.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

It changes every year, was 13.3 last year. Last year they scrapped the A and B designations and just made it one offer for any player.

Ah, that's what I was thinking of. Thanks.

[tarcone]

If the Cardinals want Beltran, I bet he signs with them.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Heyman - Red Sox to make QO to Drew, Napoli, Ellsbury, maybe Salty

Of course, not everything Heyman goes with is right, but this doesn't surprise.

[Butter]

I know this is super old news, thread-wise, but if you are the Reds, you HAVE to make a QO to Arroyo. Even if he accepts it, and is terrible, you can hide him as the long man for a single year... he seems to struggle more when teams see him 2-3 times in a game anyway.

Too risky to just lose that compensatory draft pick if he walks anyway. Plus if you keep him, it allows the team to shop Homer Bailey.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Heyman - Red Sox to make QO to Drew, Napoli, Ellsbury, maybe Salty

Of course, not everything Heyman goes with is right, but this doesn't surprise.

Heyman's biggest problem has always been his willingness to be used by certain agents (a.k.a. Boras) as a mouthpiece. Like when the 2B Guerrero was being shopped around and he reported the Red Sox and Rangers were bidding when clearly both have 2B locked up long-term. But in this case nobody gains anything by pretending to offer a QO, so I doubt any source is playing him.

I'd still offer Salty the QO even with Ross supplanting him as the starting catcher during the WS. Still makes too much sense as the platoon-mate next year if they can get him on a 1-yr overpay since they're completely unwilling to trust Lavarnway behind the plate, and even under a best-case scenario the real catching prospects (Vasquez, Swihart) are minimum 1 year away. Worst thing we could do is sign any catcher (including Salty and Brian McCann) to a long-term contract.

FYI, timeline is that until 5pm ET on Monday, November 4th, teams may tender a QO, which is a guaranteed one-year, $14.1mm deal for 2014. The free agent can start negotiating with other teams at that point and has until 5pm ET on Monday, November 11th to accept a QO. Any player who accepts is considered signed for 2014. If a player declines a QO, his former team becomes eligible for compensation if the player signs a Major League contract with another Major League team before the 2014 draft. General Manager meetings are then November 11-13th.

[BishopMVP]

Talking about Agents spin - According to Boras, Stephen Drew went to the eye doctor before Game 6, got some new contact lenses and homered and hit the ball hard 3 times. You hear that opposing GM's? Well worth the 1st round pick and a multi-year contract!

[BishopMVP]

Preliminary odds from Bovada (why not?)

Los Angeles Dodgers 7/1
Detroit Tigers 9/1
Boston Red Sox 10/1
St. Louis Cardinals 10/1
Washington Nationals 10/1
Los Angeles Angels 14/1
Atlanta Braves 16/1
Cincinnati Reds 16/1
New York Yankees 16/1
Oakland Athletics 16/1
Tampa Bay Rays 16/1
Texas Rangers 16/1
San Francisco Giants 18/1
Cleveland Indians 20/1
Baltimore Orioles 25/1
Pittsburgh Pirates 25/1
Toronto Blue Jays 25/1
Kansas City Royals 33/1
Philadelphia Phillies 33/1
Arizona Diamondbacks 40/1
Chicago White Sox 50/1
Milwaukee Brewers 50/1
Seattle Mariners 50/1
Chicago Cubs 66/1
Colorado Rockies 66/1
San Diego Padres 66/1
Minnesota Twins 75/1
New York Mets 75/1
Miami Marlins 200/1
Houston Astros 250/1

Preliminary instinct - some of the top teams seem a little low, the Nationals are overrated, and if I had to pick a longshot I kind of like Arizona - they have enough young pitching that if it gels they could make a run imo.

[sterlingice]

One of these years, someone is going to turn on the money making Death Star that is the Cubs, now that they have a competent front office, and someone will cash in on those odds.

SI

[Matthean]

Tough to get excited about a coaching hire when your initial reaction is "Wait, who?"

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

One of these years, someone is going to turn on the money making Death Star that is the Cubs, now that they have a competent front office, and someone will cash in on those odds.

SI

They aren't as big of cash register lately as they have been. Attendance has been dropping pretty much every year since the Ricketts bought them, and they're leveraged out the ass right now.

Granted, all it will take is a winning season (or even a glimmer of competent play) and they'll go right back to printing money.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

They aren't as big of cash register lately as they have been. Attendance has been dropping pretty much every year since the Ricketts bought them, and they're leveraged out the ass right now.

Granted, all it will take is a winning season (or even a glimmer of competent play) and they'll go right back to printing money.

I went to a game at Wriggly last year, and was shocked how packed it was, considering how awful they are. I also realized what a horrible game day experience it is, due to the stone age stadium.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I know this is super old news, thread-wise, but if you are the Reds, you HAVE to make a QO to Arroyo. Even if he accepts it, and is terrible, you can hide him as the long man for a single year... he seems to struggle more when teams see him 2-3 times in a game anyway.

Too risky to just lose that compensatory draft pick if he walks anyway. Plus if you keep him, it allows the team to shop Homer Bailey.

The Reds did not make a QO to Arroyo. I am a little surprised, but after reading some analysis can totally understand why they did not.

[korme]

So glad. That price is way above his market.