Is John Kerry changing parties?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

People who are piling on Kerry are funny. People tend to like capitalism until someone in another country can make a better product cheaper than you can. Basically, good job Kerry.

Okay, okay, all joking aside. Nobody is saying John Kerry needs to buy from Massachussetts shipbuilders or park his yacht in Massachussetts to pay state taxes and fees. What people are saying is that it might have been a good idea if you want their votes. Not everybody has an official Senate web-site that shows that the #2 concern among his voters is AMERICAN JOBS. On the bright side, John Kerry just recently fought to extend unemployment benefits, so it's not like his people are left out in the cold. John Kerry did acknowledge that America will have to find another state to pony up those funds though since all his shipbuilders are out of work.

[RainMaker]

We have officially run out of problems.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Noop

Ipod maybe?

Ipods are assembled in China.

[BishopMVP]

I probably hate John Kerry more than anyone else on this board, and think the tax dodge is the type of ethical problem that will hopefully get him voted out of office, but the Herald is a hack paper with a full-time staff of about 8 people and their lead is an absolute non-story. The most interesting part is seeing people's weirdly uninformed perceptions of Massachusetts.

Originally Posted by tarcone

I understand the whole "Its his money....". But his states economy is based on ships and boats and fishing, etc.

How much Melville and Junger are you reading that leads you to think that's what our economy is based off of? It's telling that the two quotes in the article are from a company in Maine (not part of Massachusetts since about 1820 and the Missouri Compromise) and a person from Connecticut sailing his boat in Boston instead of his own boring state. Make sure Kerry's clothes are made locally too, since the other half of our economy is unwed immigrant girls working in the mills.

[JPhillips]

And here I thought MA was all about cranberries and monuments.

[Noop]

So America pretty much makes nothing of quality, like someone said earlier good job John.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by Noop

So America pretty much makes nothing of quality, like someone said earlier good job John.

Especially politicians. America definitely does not make politicians of quality

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Okay, okay, all joking aside. Nobody is saying John Kerry needs to buy from Massachussetts shipbuilders or park his yacht in Massachussetts to pay state taxes and fees. What people are saying is that it might have been a good idea if you want their votes. Not everybody has an official Senate web-site that shows that the #2 concern among his voters is AMERICAN JOBS. On the bright side, John Kerry just recently fought to extend unemployment benefits, so it's not like his people are left out in the cold. John Kerry did acknowledge that America will have to find another state to pony up those funds though since all his shipbuilders are out of work.

Kerry's not in any danger of not winning his next bid for reelection, regardless of where he buys his yacht. Everybody here knows that he married into a shitpile of cash and can basically spend whatever he wants on whatever, and nobody holds that against him. So trying to make it seem like its an issue is silly.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Are American shipbuilders really so incompetent that they can't compete on price or feature list with a New Zealand company?

Basically, for a certain type of boat (especially a luxury yacht like this), shipbuilders in NZ are generally considered some of the finest in the world. Shipbuilders in New England still make good to excellent boats (depending on the builder), but NZ builders are just better. A lot better. It's also not necessarily a price or feature list kind of thing. Just a better product overall.

Originally Posted by molson

Because it's cheaper?

For clarification, I'm not sure the boat was cheaper built in NZ. In fact, it was probably more expensive.

Originally Posted by terpkristin

But all said, I think it's pretty squirrelly of him to keep it in Rhode Island, knowing his state can probably use the tax revenue. Never having sailed up there, I can't speak for how easy it is to access Nantucket (where it's said he sails) from Rhode Island as opposed to any of the Massachusetts ports, but still seems kind of evasive.

It's about the same. Nantucket is directly south from Cape Cod, and southeast of most RI ports.


As for the "employ half a town" thing, in general, it's kind of true. Many high-end shipbuilders in Maine, at least (where I grew up) are based in small towns and, when they're at capacity, employ a significant portion of the town. Since cost-of-living is generally low, and many of these positions are still unskilled or semi-skilled (or apprentice level), wages aren't super-high. So a single $7 million contract could provide a lot of security for a town like this for a year or so.

IMO, he's free to spend his money how he likes, and NZ shipbuilders make excellent yachts, but if I were in his shoes, I'd use a local builder in New England.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Noop

So America pretty much makes nothing of quality, like someone said earlier good job John.

We're getting by on the entertainment industry, the service industry, and by printing vast amounts of currency. (And to a lesser degree, hoping that people with disposable income choose to buy inferior, more expensive American products and services out of patriotism).

Perhaps a questionable long-term plan.

[DaddyTorgo]

Point of clarification - it's not really HIS money though in this case I have a feeling. More likely it's his wife's family money.

So if you're that upset about it - I encourage you to stop using Heinz Ketchup.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

So trying to make it seem like its an issue is silly.

Nobody's making it an issue. We are making fun of the stupid Democrat and his apologists. There is a distinct (yet apparently subtle) difference.

[JediKooter]

Who the hell is John Kerry?

[Passacaglia]

hell yeah he's changing parties -- from a lame-ass one in some guy's house to one on a 7 million dollar boat!

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Noop

So America pretty much makes nothing of quality, like someone said earlier good job John.

I'd argue that my Chrysler Aspen is a darn fine automobile .... plus its the only one which fits my 6'5'' frame

America also grows some damn fine meat, I've eaten more steak since emigrating than I probably did in the entire 35 years I spent outside of the country

(who's next?)

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by stevew

Hopefully this boat is swift.

Here's your Thread Winnar!

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

hell yeah he's changing parties -- from a lame-ass one in some guy's house to one on a 7 million dollar boat!

Fuck land!

[JediKooter]

At first I thought the thread title said: "Is John Kerry changing panties?"

I have to agree with Apathetic Lurker, there is a serious lack of quality politicians in this country.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Fuck land!

Poseidon, look at meeee!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Nobody's making it an issue. We are making fun of the stupid Democrat and his apologists. There is a distinct (yet apparently subtle) difference.

Did I say that somebody here was? My comment was more directed towards the writer of the original article.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

At first I thought the thread title said: "Is John Kerry changing panties?"

See, my thought was "Is Katy Perry changing panties?"

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

See, my thought was "Is Katy Perry changing panties?"

Which would put a much nicer thought in my head than if it was John Kerry.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

See, my thought was "Is Katy Perry changing panties?"

That'd most likely be a trick question.

[stevew]

Katy Perry obviously doesn't wear panties.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Did I say that somebody here was? My comment was more directed towards the writer of the original article.

I'll give Dutch, but clearly a couple of people here are trying to make it an issue.

[molson]

Gotta give Kerry props for this:

Sen. Kerry to pay $500K tax on yacht - Local News Updates - MetroDesk - The Boston Globe

Senator John Kerry said today he will voluntarily cut a check to the state of Massachusetts for some $500,000 in sales tax for a yacht he purchased in Rhode Island earlier this year.

"We’ve reached out to the Massachusetts Department of Revenue and made clear that, whether owed or not, we intend to pay the equivalent taxes as if the boat’s home-port were currently in Massachusetts," Kerry said in a statement released this afternoon. "That payment is being made promptly."

Kerry has been dogged by questions in recent days by questions about whether he purposely tried to evade taxes in his home state by listing the $7 million yacht's home berth as Newport, R.I. when he actually intended to use the boat at his summer home on Nantucket. His yacht purchase was first reported in the Boston Herald.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

Gotta give Kerry props for this:

Sen. Kerry to pay $500K tax on yacht - Local News Updates - MetroDesk - The Boston Globe

Senator John Kerry said today he will voluntarily cut a check to the state of Massachusetts for some $500,000 in sales tax for a yacht he purchased in Rhode Island earlier this year.

"We’ve reached out to the Massachusetts Department of Revenue and made clear that, whether owed or not, we intend to pay the equivalent taxes as if the boat’s home-port were currently in Massachusetts," Kerry said in a statement released this afternoon. "That payment is being made promptly."

Kerry has been dogged by questions in recent days by questions about whether he purposely tried to evade taxes in his home state by listing the $7 million yacht's home berth as Newport, R.I. when he actually intended to use the boat at his summer home on Nantucket. His yacht purchase was first reported in the Boston Herald.

Props to the Senator.

[JediKooter]

Kinda funny though that republicans are bitching about him not paying a tax when they are the ones that are so anti-tax. You'd think they'd be saying, "Atta boy!". Oh wait, it gives them a chance to play politics and not really do anything, never mind.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Gotta give Kerry props for this:

For what, proving he's willing to throw away money for political p.r.? Not sure that's really praiseworthy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Kinda funny though that republicans are bitching about him not paying a tax when they are the ones that are so anti-tax. You'd think they'd be saying, "Atta boy!". Oh wait, it gives them a chance to play politics and not really do anything, never mind.

Obviously you skipped my comments yesterday. I considered this one of the few intelligent things I'd ever associated with Kerry, not sure how much more praise I could heap on his original decision.

And yet I'm supposed to be one of the more partisan people here, go figure.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

For what, proving he's willing to throw away money for political p.r.? Not sure that's really praiseworthy.

I think rich liberals who have such big professed beliefs in the government doing good things with tax money should be writing voluntary checks to the state and federal treasury all the time. That makes their opinion a little more genuine, IMO. As opposed to liberals who are largely in favor of higher taxes, as long as someone else is paying them (preferably generic, evil rich people)

The latter is similar to a conservative who lectures that people need to take on a bigger individual role in helping people, but then don't actually help anyone themselves.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Obviously you skipped my comments yesterday. I considered this one of the few intelligent things I'd ever associated with Kerry, not sure how much more praise I could heap on his original decision.

And yet I'm supposed to be one of the more partisan people here, go figure.

No, I did not see your post from yesterday, but, I was talking about the republicans that hold an elected position, not anyone on this message board.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

I think rich liberals who have such big professed beliefs in the government doing good things with tax money should be writing voluntary checks to the state and federal treasury all the time. That makes their opinion a little more genuine, IMO. As opposed to liberals who are largely in favor of higher taxes, as long as someone else is paying them (preferably generic, evil rich people)

The latter is similar to a conservative who lectures that people need to take on a bigger individual role in helping people, but then don't actually help anyone themselves.

So if you're not writing extra checks to the government you aren't allowed to say that taxes need to increase?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

Gotta give Kerry props for this:

Sen. Kerry to pay $500K tax on yacht - Local News Updates - MetroDesk - The Boston Globe

Senator John Kerry said today he will voluntarily cut a check to the state of Massachusetts for some $500,000 in sales tax for a yacht he purchased in Rhode Island earlier this year.

"We’ve reached out to the Massachusetts Department of Revenue and made clear that, whether owed or not, we intend to pay the equivalent taxes as if the boat’s home-port were currently in Massachusetts," Kerry said in a statement released this afternoon. "That payment is being made promptly."

Kerry has been dogged by questions in recent days by questions about whether he purposely tried to evade taxes in his home state by listing the $7 million yacht's home berth as Newport, R.I. when he actually intended to use the boat at his summer home on Nantucket. His yacht purchase was first reported in the Boston Herald.

Props for getting caught? It's something he should do as a resident of MA, but he's only making things right because he got busted.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So if you're not writing extra checks to the government you aren't allowed to say that taxes need to increase?

You're allowed to say anything you want, but if you think taxes should be higher, and then you write extra checks to the government or overpay your taxes, that's pretty compelling evidence of your sincerity.

What if I said that regular Americans should give more to charity, when I didn't give a penny to anyone myself? Same kind of thing.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Props for getting caught? It's something he should do as a resident of MA, but he's only making things right because he got busted.

This would have blown over. He didn't have to pay the $500k. It's not like he's in danger of being voted out of office anytime soon.

[Greyroofoo]

It must be nice to marry rich.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

You're allowed to say anything you want, but if you think taxes should be higher, and then you write extra checks to the government or overpay your taxes, that's pretty compelling evidence of your sincerity.

What if I said that regular Americans should give more to charity, when I didn't give a penny to anyone myself? Same kind of thing.

But your personal hypocrisy wouldn't invalidate the point.

And do you really want to go down this road? Can only those who have served in the military speak about the military? Only those that have lived abroad can talk about foreign policy?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by molson

This would have blown over. He didn't have to pay the $500k. It's not like he's in danger of being voted out of office anytime soon.

Republicans would never win a senate seat in Massachussetts!

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But your personal hypocrisy wouldn't invalidate the point.

And do you really want to go down this road? Can only those who have served in the military speak about the military? Only those that have lived abroad can talk about foreign policy?

No, I don't think any of that. Anybody can say whatever the hell they want.

I've always kind of wondered why government is never considered an appropriate charity for those who believe it does so much good. Maybe people do write them extra checks and I don't know about it.

[JPhillips]

It's the phrase "compelling evidence of your sincerity" that would seem to limit policy discussion to only those with personal experience.

I did recently see that there were millions in voluntary overpayments, but compared to the population it's pretty small.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

For what, proving he's willing to throw away money for political p.r.? Not sure that's really praiseworthy.

He's got more money then he (or his kids) will ever need.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Republicans would never win a senate seat in Massachussetts!

The rural portions of the state and the horribly run campaign by the Democratic candidate contributed to a temporary brain-fart on the part of a very slim majority of the population.

You bet your ass we'll be rectifying that ASAP.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It's the phrase "compelling evidence of your sincerity" that would seem to limit policy discussion to only those with personal experience.

Evidence of sincerity is different than a mandatory prerequisite to sincerity.

Writing a big check to the government is damn good evidence that you believe in what government does. But there can be other kinds of evidence.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

He's got more money then he (or his kids) will ever need.

There's no such thing.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

There's no such thing.

Definitely is such a thing imho - if you want to test this theory out I'd be willing to oblige.

I reckon $10m would do me and mine pretty well, if you'd care to ship it over to my place by Fedex and you're welcome to check in with me every few years and see if I've run out or not

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Definitely is such a thing imho - if you want to test this theory out I'd be willing to oblige.

I reckon $10m would do me and mine pretty well, if you'd care to ship it over to my place by Fedex and you're welcome to check in with me every few years and see if I've run out or not

If you can't go through $10 million without any bizarre spending (i.e. buying an indy league baseball team in North Dakota) then you aren't trying. Hell, you're consciously trying not to spend on that amount to get it to last.

*I always try to make a bizarre spending exception on these things, I mean, that's only fair. Buying a few sports franchises & a couple of bad social gaming developers could run through a heck of a lot quickly.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

The rural portions of the state and the horribly run campaign by the Democratic candidate contributed to a temporary brain-fart on the part of a very slim majority of the population.

You bet your ass we'll be rectifying that ASAP.

A two-party system cannot work in the labor controlled northeast. No doubt this guy will be buried Hoffa-style if he wins again.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dutch

A two-party system cannot work in the labor controlled northeast. No doubt this guy will be buried Hoffa-style if he wins again.

Labor unions aren't as big as you think in Massachusetts. They aren't even in the top 10. Some of the other states in the region are another story.

[Dutch]

Well, to be fair Massachussetts is about the size of large Iowa farm...so just outside the Top 10 is not bad.