The NBA 2010 offseason/draft thread

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Their gameplan - the same appaling gameplan several other teams have also been running - is to suck and put a mess of a team on the court for the past few seasons all in the hopes of landing a big name FA this offseason. They could just as easily get stuck with 2nd-tier guys if everyone stays at home, and you know what, that's what they'd deserve, too.

i don't disagree. but i'm sure the plan is lebron/bosh and or wade.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Because they suck now. They mortgaged multiple first round picks over the years too. So even if they can add a Bosh with Lebron, it's still a team with no depth and no supporting players.

They won't suck, but I don't think it will be the best possible option for him to win. I'd rather go to the Nets.

don't disagree with that either. i'm just saying ny had to have thought this through.

[Neuqua]

Via Twitter:

chadfordinsider: Should we just cancel the NBA Finals to go to 24/7 LeBron James coverage?

[RainMaker]

ESPN is dreadful and I would be angry as hell watching it if I was a Boston fan.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What was I thinking that a city like LA would fawn over a global star like Lebron James. They'd probably have to drop ticket prices to fill up that arena.

Wow...talk about your extreme sides of the argument.

Los Angeles is a bandwagon town for sure, but it's full of basketball fans who bandwagon on the Lakers. Not a team that bandwagons on the Clippers. People go to Clipper games because it's a cheap form of entertainment, not because they actually care about the Clippers. With Lebron on the team, the ticket prices still wouldnt touch that of the Lakers

[stevew]

hmmmm, easiest way for the Bulls to win the next 10 titles-

Bulls offer Luol Deng and 2 first round picks to the Cavs for LeBron in a sign and trade. Bulls then have cleared enough space to sign D-Wade too.

Bulls have the following lineup

Rose/Hinrich
Wade/James Johnson
LeBron/James Johnson
Taj Gibson/
Noah

Obviously the team has no frontcourt, but I'm fairly certain they could get enough stiffs to play for the minimum and gradually trade down Hinrich for multiple players. Plus they'd have the MLE in 2011(if it still exists). Anyways, the sign and trade(also factoring in cap holds) puts them right around the 56m dollar expected cap mark.

[Young Drachma]

It's like a revival at the Church of Internet Hate. Everyone hates LeBron until he ends up on their favorite team. I guess people hated Jordan too. Maybe this is all part of the evolution.

As for where he goes, I think the past few days were an orchestration aimed at ensuring he gets out of Cleveland for his own good. Putting up a triple double in a loss (with contributions from Mo Williams) essentially says "I did my part. They didn't. Don't blame me."

Which is valid, but I don't understand how many so many people honestly think that his supporting cast and that horrible fucking coach of theirs is any sort of well placed match for him. What the hell is supposed to entice him to stay in Cleveland other than 1) money and 2) the faux idea of loyalty?

For as great as Garnett was in Minnesota, it took a steal deal that saved Ray Allen from purgatory in Oklahoma City and teaming up with Paul Pierce to get them a title. The team that beat Cleveland tonight is older, more experienced and better pound for pound in its sleep. The fact that Cleveland has do as much as they have for so long with so little is astounding.

But I can't see Chicago or Miami. Wade already has a ring, so it's not certain he's interested in a buddy cop movie with LeBron and Bosh. But if they wanted to do it, there are places out there where they could make it happen.

Should be fun to see it play out. Basketball's got a hot grill, versus the hot stove.

[RainMaker]

Lets breakdown the options:

Cleveland - One thing people fail to mention is they somehow managed to hang on to J.J. Hickson in the Jamison deal. He is good trade bait and could be packaged with a contract for a guy like Amare. The Jamison contract though looks like it'll saddle them, and Mo is probably untradeable too. I think they have some flexibility, just not a lot.

New York - Really have no one to put around him. They could max contract someone like Bosh (who I don't think wants to be a second fiddle), but it would literally leave them with having to fill out the roster with minimum contracts and rookie contracts. They dumped their first round pick Hill to Houston and have given up 2 more first rounders plus the ability for Houston to swap in the coming years. It will be a team with no bench and no role players. Some people don't realize how much they gave up to dump Jeffries contract.

New Jersey - I think this becomes very interesting if they get the #1 pick in the draft. John Wall gives them a star to grow with Lebron and Lopez and Lee are solid role players. I think Devin Harris would have to be traded and they could end up getting a decent player for him (although Harris' contract is really tough to trade).

Chicago - I'm bias here but he gets Rose and Noah just as they enter the cusp of their prime. Deng is a decent player who could be packaged with Hinrich's expiring contract for another star like Boozer or Amare.

Miami - They have the money and playing along Wade would create the best 1-2 punch in the game. The only problem I see is that you have two big stars on the same team and I just don't know if either would go for it. Would still give him a great chance at winning.

Clippers - Won't happen but I think it's a really interesting team with him on it. Young talent that can develop with him over the next 5+ years.

I can't think of anything else. I think it's between Cleveland, Chicago, New Jersey, and New York. If I had to bet on it, I'd say he ends up in New York, then Cleveland, then Chicago, then New Jersey.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by stevew

hmmmm, easiest way for the Bulls to win the next 10 titles-

Bulls offer Luol Deng and 2 first round picks to the Cavs for LeBron in a sign and trade. Bulls then have cleared enough space to sign D-Wade too.

Bulls have the following lineup

Rose/Hinrich
Wade/James Johnson
LeBron/James Johnson
Taj Gibson/
Noah

Obviously the team has no frontcourt, but I'm fairly certain they could get enough stiffs to play for the minimum and gradually trade down Hinrich for multiple players. Plus they'd have the MLE in 2011(if it still exists). Anyways, the sign and trade(also factoring in cap holds) puts them right around the 56m dollar expected cap mark.

I don't think Wade wants to leave and I don't think he'd go for that. Deng's contract also doesn't match up with Lebrons so the Bulls would have to add Hinrich to the deal.

If the Bulls added Lebron, it would be a straight signing. There is the possibility that they'd package Deng and Hinrich for Bosh or someone, but I find that highly unlikely. Deng's contract is pretty bad.

[stevew]

It really doesn't have to match up if the Bulls have enough cap space to make the move.

Bulls receive Lebron James in a sign and trade for a 2 1st round picks. Cavs receive 16.8m dollar trade exception.

Cavs acquire Luol Deng with 16.8m dollar trade exception for cash considerations.

It works.

[Chief Rum]

Hmm, as the resident Clippers fan on the board (to my knowledge, the only one), I figured I might as well chip in here on several points:

1. Rainmaker, I would love to agree with you. But no way this happens. LeBron is aware of the seeming bad luck and bad ownership of the Clips, and he can get his money from several places, so why would he do this, go to LA where there is another, more dominant team and a very notable superstar already dominating the town.

2. The Clippers do have a good young core. They will add another lottery pick this offseason and they have a ton of cap space. They could max out LeBron and still sign another decent player. That said, there is much bad mojo around this team, I find it hard to believe an image conscious guy like LeBron would even consider it. The Clips have some money to spend--but I suspect the only way they get a splashy free agent is by being the only team to offer a max contract to a player that doesn't deserve it (Boozer and Joe Johnson come to mind) or by waiting out all of the free agents, so that the only choice left to the last of the big free agents is to take the Clips' money if they want a big contract.

3. The Lakers are so far ahead of the Clippers in LA, it's ridiculous. LeBron to the Clips would indeed raise the team's profile, and they would do well with ticket sales and there probably would be more of a budding rivalry there. But even with all of that, this will always be a Laker town, and the Clips will never have the profile of the Lakers, no matter who they sign.

4. Sterling is a piece of shit. He treats people like shit. He is a racist m'effer who really needs to sell the team or have the good grace to leave this mortal coil. He's a cheap bastard but gives lip service to spending big. Bullshit. You see how the guy does business, how he fires people, how he hires people. This guy doesn't deserve a star like LeBron. He's lucky--he got me hooked with a good, young team in the late 80s, early 90s that looked like it could do something (Benoit Benjamin, Danny Manning, Charles Smith, Reggie Williams, Gary Grant, etc.). Because he doesn't deserve my fandom either.

Until Sterling is gone, this team will not only be run too poorly and cheaply to succeed, it will rightly be on the business end of the karma stick.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by stevew

It really doesn't have to match up if the Bulls have enough cap space to make the move.

Bulls receive Lebron James in a sign and trade for a 2 1st round picks. Cavs receive 16.8m dollar trade exception.

Cavs acquire Luol Deng with 16.8m dollar trade exception for cash considerations.

It works.

How do sign & trades work when it comes to the salary cap? I thought contracts had to match up?

[RainMaker]

Chief Rum, I never said I thought it would happen. I would be shocked if it did. I'm just saying in my personal opinion as a fan of the NBA, I would love to see the drama unfold in LA. If the Bulls can't get him, I would love to see him go out to LA and battle with Kobe and the Lakers for the limelight.

It will never happen, but just my personal wish for making the league more fun. If he goes to New York, I dont' think I can ever watch ESPN again.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How do sign & trades work when it comes to the salary cap? I thought contracts had to match up?

Not if one team is under the cap.

[stevew]

Actually, hypothetically this might make the East Playoffs with a good coach.


Mo Williams/Boobie
Anthony Parker/Delonte West
Luol Deng/Jamario Moon
Jamison/Hickson
Verajao/Hickson

[stevew]

[jbergey22]

If I had to guess. Bosh is a perfect fit for New York. Id like to say Wade is going to the Bulls but I think he is too similar to Rose so Im not sure if that would work so lets put Wade in New York as well. As for Lebron that is tricky he would make a nice fit for the Bulls however like has been mentioned I dont know if he wants to shadow MJ so in the end the more I think about it he will likely stay where he is.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by stevew

Actually, hypothetically this might make the East Playoffs with a good coach.

Mo Williams/Boobie
Anthony Parker/Delonte West
Luol Deng/Jamario Moon
Jamison/Hickson
Verajao/Hickson

Not to mention a lot of cash to pursue some second tier free agents.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

If I had to guess. Bosh is a perfect fit for New York. Id like to say Wade is going to the Bulls but I think he is too similar to Rose so Im not sure if that would work so lets put Wade in New York as well. As for Lebron that is tricky he would make a nice fit for the Bulls however like has been mentioned I dont know if he wants to shadow MJ so in the end the more I think about it he will likely stay where he is.

I think Bosh will be going in a sign & trade deal. Not sure what New York can offer up that Toronto would like. I think Bosh woul be a good fit in New York, but I think he's also a real good fit in Houston.

Crazy thought, but wouldn't New York be suited to sort of wait if they can't get Lebron, Wade, or Bosh? 2011 will potentially have Carmelo and Durant. Saw this from Sam Smith.

RealGM: Basketball Wiretap Archives: Melo Wants To Be A Knick?

[law90026]

Chicago is in a pretty shitty position if you ask me.

Unless they can have a sign-and-trade worked out for LeBron, they need to focus on the smaller targets unless LeBron or Wade's agent has indicated Chicago is their choice. If Chicago focuses on one of these 2 and doesn't get them, it's conceivable they lose out on the 2nd tier as well, i.e. Bosh, Johnson.

That's why the talk has always been about Chicago going after Joe Johnson rather than LeBron.

Having said that, a LeBron-Rose duo would be awesome.

[RainMaker]

I don't see how they're in a shitty position. They offer Lebron arguably the best chance to win over the next 5+ years. A major city where he can be the alpha dog on a team that has a lot of young, playoff experienced talent. Even if they strike out on Lebron and Wade, they still offer a really nice option for the other major free agents out there. I just don't think we'll have trouble convincing a Joe Johnson, Carlos Boozer, or Amare Stoudamire to play alongside Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah in a great city. And if they do strike out, they still have a young team that can afford to wait another year to try and grab Carmelo, Durant, or trade for a star.

I think the team that is in the most dangerous spot is the Knicks. They probably lose Lee this year and Galinari will almost certainly have to be part of any sign and trade. They traded Jordan Hill to free up cap room. They don't have a pick in this coming draft, have to swap with Houston in 2011, and don't have a 1st round pick in 2012 either. If they swing and miss on the top tier, they are looking at having to overpay someone like Joe Johnson and being a below average team for the next few years.

I'm not saying the Bulls are in the pole position, but I don't think the team is in a bad position.

LeBron to the Bulls? 3 GMs think so - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN

[jbergey22]

I agree with that article. If Lebron's word means anything the Bulls give him the best chance to win or staying where he is. If he goes to the Knicks or Nets obviously winning means squat to him.

The sign and trade with the Knicks and Raptors I believe would have Bosh and Calderon coming to New York for Lee and someone, and probably a first. Calderon seems like a point guard that would fit well in that system.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Not to mention a lot of cash to pursue some second tier free agents.

nah, even with Shaq and Lebron gone they are just 7 mio under the salary cap + Cleveland without James goes back to being a mediocre club with a less than attractive location (i personally thought Cleveland was great, but i couldn´t choose between cities like NBA free agents can ), not exactly a top notch destination for free agents.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

The sign and trade with the Knicks and Raptors I believe would have Bosh and Calderon coming to New York for Lee and someone, and probably a first. Calderon seems like a point guard that would fit well in that system.

From what I've been reading, the Raptors are going to push hard to dump Turkoglu's bad contract in any sign and trade with Bosh. I don't know if they'd have any interest in Lee either.

I still think Houston makes a lot of sense. Toronto can get back Ariza, Hill, and maybe one of the stockpiled 1st rounders Houston has.

[Ksyrup]

I think he should annex Missouri and Nebraska and form the Big LeBron.

[Maple Leafs]

Not really a basketball fan, can someone explain the sign-and-trade to me?

I understand that teams do it because of the cap, but does the player tell them team who he wants to sign with first or does the team just make the best deal it can? And do they get anything approaching decent value?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by stevew

Actually, hypothetically this might make the East Playoffs with a good coach.


Mo Williams/Boobie
Anthony Parker/Delonte West
Luol Deng/Jamario Moon
Jamison/Hickson
Verajao/Hickson

That team is not a contender for a title, but it does make the playoffs. They'll also have money freed up to sign other players. My dream scenario? Lebron bolts for the Bulls or Knicks, and the Cavs take him out of the playoffs.

I know the Bulls, Heat, and Knicks are the talk of the league, but do not be surprised if Dallas makes a major play and gets one of the big guns this summer. (Bron, Wade, Bosh, etc.) They may not have cap space, but they do have pieces to make things work and players love playing for the Mavericks because of how well Cuban treats them.

[Noop]

LeBron should come to Miami and play with Wade.

They would be like young Jordan and Magic Johnson. They both will be able to get their touches and win a few championships.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Take No-Show Joe, please.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Take No-Show Joe, please.

I wish the Nuggets could afford him. A guy I'd love to have on my team, just not as the alpha dog. If the team who gets him makes him their number 2 or 3 option, they'll be very, very happy.

FWIW, Joe was pretty damned good in the playoffs 2 times and pretty bad the last 2 times. He has also been terrific in "clutch" situations the last few years. (clutch defined as +/-5 in the final 5 minutes of a game)

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

As for Lebron that is tricky he would make a nice fit for the Bulls however like has been mentioned I dont know if he wants to shadow MJ so in the end the more I think about it he will likely stay where he is.

I don't think that he will stay in Cleveland but I think you're right about being in Jordan's shadow. That's the main reason he doesn't go to the Bulls. There's no more room for statues at the UC. (Lebron could win 10 titles here and it wouldn't matter.)

Sports talk in Chicago has fans saying that they don't want him here anyway. There's a real loyalty to Jordan here, a deity-like worship really. But all this speculation about King James doesn't really matter. The Bulls' management will find a way to eff this whole thing up. Paxson is still getting a big pass here from most, but as I have posted before he is one of the worst GMs in the NBA. Baylor, Isaiah, and McHale were worse but not by much. Look at his track record and you'll see what I mean. A lucky lottery ball bounce that turned into d-Rose is what is saving him, I guess.

[MrBug708]

You honestly think that if Lebron won 10 titles in...say 12 years (retiring at 37), he wouldnt pass MJ?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Not really a basketball fan, can someone explain the sign-and-trade to me?

I understand that teams do it because of the cap, but does the player tell them team who he wants to sign with first or does the team just make the best deal it can? And do they get anything approaching decent value?

The player essentially negotiates with the other teams, finds where he actually wants to go and then his original team not wanting to get nothing for him will sign him and then work out a deal with the other team so they at least get something in return rather than losing the guy for nothing. So the original team gets a few players and the player gets his max contract.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

You honestly think that if Lebron won 10 titles in...say 12 years (retiring at 37), he wouldnt pass MJ?

That is exactly what I am saying -- he would not be more revered than MJ.

[JediKooter]

It's official...LeBron to the Clippers!


















And by official, I mean, that's where I'd officially like to see him go.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

It's official...LeBron to the Clippers!


















And by official, I mean, that's where I'd officially like to see him go.

I certainly wouldn't mind that.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

That is exactly what I am saying -- he would not be more revered than MJ.

Um, no. 10 titles in 12 years would trump anything MJ has done and in this media first age, would probably go down as the greatest team sport athlete ever

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

That is exactly what I am saying -- he would not be more revered than MJ.

This. Jordan reached a level of transcendence that no one else ever will.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Um, no. 10 titles in 12 years would trump anything MJ has done and in this media first age, would probably go down as the greatest team sport athlete ever

You likely don't live in Chicagoland, so you clearly don't understand so...um, no...it wouldn't trump the perception of MJ here. I think Lebron knows that.

[MrBug708]

10 titles? I dont think I need to live in Chicago to understand that 10 titles in 12 years would certainly trump MJ's accomplishments

[Logan]

I'd have to agree with the pro-MJ people, especially those who are in touch with the Chicago feel.

If in 10 years some shortstop joins the Yankees and then leads them to 10 titles in 12 years, that guy will never be loved more than Jeter. 30-40 years from now when there's a whole new generation in place, probably.

LeBron would be going there too soon for his impact to go above Jordan's.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

You likely don't live in Chicagoland, so you clearly don't understand so...um, no...it wouldn't trump the perception of MJ here. I think Lebron knows that.

You're both right.

Obviously, in Chicago land, Jordan is and always will be king. That's the way fans operate. Some younger fans will be all about LeBron, but the Chicagolanders old enough to remember and root for Jordan will always be on him.

But what you guys from Chicago are forgetting is that LeBron's image isn't built just in Chicago. Everyone in the country will have an impression, an image. And while LeBron may not surpass Jordan in Chicago, if he achieves all that, he will surpass Jordan in every other part of the country, and not by a little.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

10 titles? I dont think I need to live in Chicago to understand that 10 titles in 12 years would certainly trump MJ's accomplishments

You're referring to accomplishments while others are referring to the level of adoration. Very different things.

I think when you add in that LeBron would be a hired gun FA signee, it lessens the impact even more.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

But what you guys from Chicago are forgetting is that LeBron's image isn't built just in Chicago. Everyone in the country will have an impression, an image. And while LeBron may not surpass Jordan in Chicago, if he achieves all that, he will surpass Jordan in every other part of the country, and not by a little.

You're forgetting his original comment:

Originally Posted by weegeebored

I don't think that he will stay in Cleveland but I think you're right about being in Jordan's shadow. That's the main reason he doesn't go to the Bulls. There's no more room for statues at the UC. (Lebron could win 10 titles here and it wouldn't matter.)

Sports talk in Chicago has fans saying that they don't want him here anyway. There's a real loyalty to Jordan here, a deity-like worship really.

[Chief Rum]

Of course, the original point started with how LeBron versus Jordan would be viewed in Chicago by itself, so the Chicago people are more right.

That said, there is a national perspective to consider there as well, and that might be--actually, probably--is more important to LeBron than the city. He'll cede Chicago to Michael if he gets the rest of the country. So, no, I don't think it will matter to LeBron that he would play in Jordan's city because LeBron isn't playing for just a city's attention.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

You're forgetting his original comment:

No I didn't. You're just too fast reacting.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Of course, the original point started with how LeBron versus Jordan would be viewed in Chicago by itself, so the Chicago people are more right.

That said, there is a national perspective to consider there as well, and that might be--actually, probably--is more important to LeBron than the city. He'll cede Chicago to Michael if he gets the rest of the country. So, no, I don't think it will matter to LeBron that he would play in Jordan's city because LeBron isn't playing for just a city's attention.

What about internationally? Jordan created basketball fans. I don't think anything LeBron does will put him above Jordan in my mind, but maybe that's just me.

[Icy]

Just thinking out loud reading some threads here and in other boards, but i think there are only two obvious options and he won't find a mid term between both, so he needs to make out his mind about what he is looking for.

- Option A: He joins a good team that has already another star or two (if they can get enough cap space) and they push for the title eating their personal egos.

- Option B: He joins a decent team without other stars so he can be the only boss, but then he is in same situation that in Cleveland and he probably will retire without any title.

I don't think that any team can win a title right now with only one star player, look how the Lakers needed a player like Gasol along Kobe to be there.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No I didn't. You're just too fast reacting.

You think a Knick fan doesn't jump at the chance to explain why he shouldn't go to Chicago?

Originally Posted by MikeVic

What about internationally? Jordan created basketball fans. I don't think anything LeBron does will put him above Jordan in my mind, but maybe that's just me.

Heard Darren Rovell from CNBC this morning on ESPN radio and he was talking about the real money-making potential (through Nike) is in China where 300 million people are playing basketball, which is a lot of feet to stuff in shoes. According to him, they embrace champions more than individual greatness which is why Kobe is more popular over there than LeBron. So LeBron with the Bulls and a bunch of titles would have a tremendous impact internationally.

[Ksyrup]

Brown fired.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Epic. Bonus points for the Carl "Are You Jackin' It" Monday appearance.


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