Marriage advice

[stevew]

I'd look thru phone records if possible. This friend may not be as new as you think. She's obviously being disrespectful. Is the lady maybe dying? Dunno if maybe she felt compelled to help her reach the other side. Maybe too much compassion? If the kids are gone soon, plan your revenge. I should add I've had similar type issues and still am not entirely sure how to handle them. Like if she isn't leaving you, you can get your ducks in an order.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Being someone who runs a soccer club in my town, I'm amazed at all the mom's and dad's who are out there looking for something other than what they have.

err.

Usually I go to my kids soccer game but I can't make it tonight so my wife is going solo. Perhaps I should cancel my meeting...

[CU Tiger]

Are you sure the other woman is single?
Is it possible your wife is a unicorn?

Maybe everything she has said is true and she is still cheating. She could be with the friend the entire time and doesnt like girls.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by RelationshipIssues

Thanks for the advice - unfortunately it appears its all over with a whimper.

I tried to draw a line in the sand this evening and asked her to come home at 11pm after a church event and she has decided to go over to visit her friend instead, they face-timed me from the car (so I kind of finally met her friend 'face to face' abeit electronically) to tell me how unreasonable I was being and frankly I think thats it.

So you want to have a spouse thats home with you at reasonable hours, she facetimes you with the "friend" in question to tell you how unimportant your desires are....and YOU are the unreasonable one here?

In other words... as long as she isnt cheating on you, there is no reason for you to be upset or have your desires/expectations respected?

That would not go over very well for me. If you are fine with that, then I'm certainly not one to judge. But I don't get the feeling you are fine with that, and I think you gave in to the pressure of not looking like a jealous asshole husband.

I think you would benefit from some soul-searching. Is this really what you want/expect from a relationship with a life partner?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Are you sure the other woman is single?
Is it possible your wife is a unicorn?

Maybe everything she has said is true and she is still cheating. She could be with the friend the entire time and doesnt like girls.

I'm confused what you mean by this...

[JeeberD]

The other woman likes to watch RI's wife with her husband/boyfriend?

[DaddyTorgo]

Or maybe it's a M/F/F thing or an orgy...

Was just confused by the use of the term unicorn - not sure what it means.

edit: and it means basically the first of my two in a more specific sense.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Are you sure the other woman is single?
Is it possible your wife is a unicorn?

Maybe everything she has said is true and she is still cheating. She could be with the friend the entire time and doesnt like girls.

It isn't about cheating. It's about her not having respect for him and their relationship.

[Toddzilla]

Am i the only one that thinks this guy has brought it all on himself with the poor choice of username? I mean, it's kind of inevitable, dontchathink?


But seriously, if it walks like a cheater, talks like a cheater, acts like a cheater, you know...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Matthean

It isn't about cheating. It's about her not having respect for him and their relationship.

Yeah - I mean...cheating aside, that was the big thing to me. Especially her last response.

[Blackadar]

As I said, it's time to throw her shit out on the lawn and change the locks. Let her stay with her new "friend".

[Subby]

Originally Posted by RelationshipIssues

Firstly thanks to people for giving the thread the benefit of the doubt - its real, unfortunately.

To answer a few questions the situation is confused by the fact we have kids and it was a decade ago she cheated on me (which is why she says I should trust her now - its been a considerable amount of time) and we've been married around 20 years.

I grew up as a product of multiple divorces and so I really don't want to put my kids through that if there is still real hope for things.

In reply to the 'sham' side of things - yes and no, we have generally had a good friendship and while passion is a real rarity these days - we're not the spring chickens we once were.

She's definitely going through a 'second childhood' at present and has been somewhat semi-obsessed with losing weight and trying to look young, I know my daughter 'flirts' with her friends online innocently enough and I'm wondering if it might be being honestly just stupidity and just mimicking her because she wants to feel young ... yes I know I'm probably being stupid, feel free to tell me that.

Other things which make me confused about the possibility she is having a same sex relationship - she is a very active christian and has often ranted about how homosexuality is a sin and complains about how many gay people are on TV etc.

Apologies if my original message came off as overly harsh (it sounded good in my head, really). I just wanted to emphasize that you deserve better. Looks like you were able to filter my terrible delivery and actually get the intent.

Anyway - I'm sorry you have to go through this. I have zero to offer other than all my best and good wishes to a peaceful and happy resolution. Hang in there.

[Matthean]

It might be partly a mid-life crisis as well. A former pastor of mine and his wife went on to start the Love and Respect ministries, and their stuff might be worth a look because again, she has to understand how much on a fundamental level she is disrespecting you and how much that hurts you. Until she gets that, nothing is going to change.

Love and Respect Ministries

[Ironhead]

Something is clearly going on. Just to throw something else out there that no one else has mentioned - is drug use a possibility?

[RelationshipIssues]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

Something is clearly going on. Just to throw something else out there that no one else has mentioned - is drug use a possibility?

She's been going through a bit of a second childhood attempt and is taking quite a few 'diet' assistants; one of my friends who works in a doctors office mentioned some of these if taken too much can cause odd side effects like personality swings etc.

As it stands today a handful of days after this all kicked off - we're still sharing the house but are effectively 'separate' and I'm trying to find my center and where to go from here, after an initial period of absolute frantic 'shit' I went to church and had a really good time which frankly surprised me.

When I've attended before its always been because religion is really my wife's 'thing', it was nice to go because I wanted to go rather than feel pressured into it and that made it far more enjoyable.

(might sound like a strange thing to mention but its helped me into a far more positive and relaxed mindset than I've managed for several days - heck I might even sleep somewhat tonight )

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

She is not staying with her friend at a hospital till 2AM every night. I wouldn't do that for my own Mother. She is lying, it's just about what.

Most hospitals have visiting hours. If this one does that she claims to be visiting, it makes her story look really weak.

[chesapeake]

You should ask her to go to marriage counseling with you. See if talking to an expert can help you to understand each other better and to work through these problems.

[Fidatelo]

Honest question: does marriage counselling ever actually work?

[jeff061]

If both people want to fix things, I'd think so. If anything, it very quickly weeds out whether that's the case or not.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Honest question: does marriage counselling ever actually work?

Bear in mind that it can "work" without saving a marriage, or can fail to work despite keeping a marriage intact.

[AlexB]

The one thing to please take away from this thread is never take advice on serious matters from essentially anonymous people on an internet forum. That includes this post.

[bulletsponge]

are you sure she isnt using her sick friend as a cover for some guy shes with? nobody stays that late visiting someone in a hospital. do hospitals even have visiting hours that late?

ohh and id bet every dollar i have shes cheating, sorry to say

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

do hospitals even have visiting hours that late?

All he has to do is ask the hospital what their visiting hours are.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Matthean

All he has to do is ask the hospital what their visiting hours are.

I think it's over if it gets to that point.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RelationshipIssues

To answer a few questions the situation is confused by the fact we have kids and it was a decade ago she cheated on me (which is why she says I should trust her now - its been a considerable amount of time) and we've been married around 20 years.

This statement really jumped out at me. Time doesn't restore trust, actions do and no matter how long it has been, her actions now do not portray trust.

Reading some of the other posts one other thing jumped out at me and that was the Bulletsponge posted.

My first marriage was a completely dysfunctional disaster, I cheated on her early and she on me late before we divorced. Towards the end she developed this friendship with a woman, who I normally would never have seen her being friends with, a complete fucking whack job. Long story short, this woman was covering for her while she cheated, saying they were taking an overnight trip together to gamble, when in fact she went with the other man.

The shit they would do to assuage my suspicion sound very familiar, putting her friend on the phone, her friend always having her meet her at her house then taking the "friends" car when they went somewhere. Just a lot of similarities and it became clearer the further back I stepped and looked at the situation.

As others have said you deserve better and there is a damn good chance you will find it, whether that just be in your own space or with someone else down the road. I have been with my current wife 12 years, we have had one rough patch that we were able to work through and the rest of my time with her has been among the best years of my life. I truly believe there is happiness out for everyone, regardless of what said happiness entails.

Stay strong and best of luck

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I think it's over if it gets to that point.

Because hospitals don't have visiting hours until 2am.

[RelationshipIssues]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Because hospitals don't have visiting hours until 2am.

For many thats true - however (and I've checked) there is one here which has 24/7 visiting and thats the one which she's been in.

[Flasch186]

good luck

[RelationshipIssues]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

This statement really jumped out at me. Time doesn't restore trust, actions do and no matter how long it has been, her actions now do not portray trust.

Thats the problem - I had established a fair bit of trust with her, however recent events knocked way at that hugely until I started rummaging .. now what I've found might be innocent, but I find it strange she doesn't understand why I've been struggling with trust.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Matthean

All he has to do is ask the hospital what their visiting hours are.

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I think it's over if it gets to that point.

Originally Posted by Matthean

Because hospitals don't have visiting hours until 2am.

No. Because if you don't trust your spouse enough that you have to follow around and confirm what they are doing when they aren't with you then there are probably insurmountable trust issues.

[RelationshipIssues]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

You should ask her to go to marriage counseling with you. See if talking to an expert can help you to understand each other better and to work through these problems.

I've been asking her whether we can do this for ages - however she's always indicated that she was happy with things as they were.

[Sun Tzu]

I'll say what everyone else here has been saying...

This woman has absolutely zero respect for you. You say that you two have kids together? I guarantee she doesn't look at it that way. In her eyes, she has the kids that she gave birth to, and she has you as an adult child. You aren't a real person, you're just someone that is mildly annoying and happens to live in the same house.

I would have dumped this ----- a long time ago. My suggestion to you is this: Grow a sack and start living life the way you want to live it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RelationshipIssues

I've been asking her whether we can do this for ages - however she's always indicated that she was happy with things as they were.

Again with her indicating her lack of respect for you and your feelings.

I get that you have kids together and that's a bond that you feel, but, and let me be overly blunt here for effect: does she have to literally shit on your face to get you to realize how little she respects you as a partner?

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

I'll say what everyone else here has been saying...

This woman has absolutely zero respect for you. You say that you two have kids together? I guarantee she doesn't look at it that way. In her eyes, she has the kids that she gave birth to, and she has you as an adult child. You aren't a real person, you're just someone that is mildly annoying and happens to live in the same house.

I would have dumped this ----- a long time ago. My suggestion to you is this: Grow a sack and start living life the way you want to live it.

I wasn't going to put it so harshly, but yeah, everything I read make her sound narcissistic and someone who doesn't view you as equals. If she did, there would be no fight about going to counseling especially since she was in the wrong before.

Also - I would be rewinding my life in my head because i would bet she didn't go 20 years before deciding now was the time to start again.

[Noop]

Hire an attorney. The first to the court house usually wins.

[DaddyTorgo]

Bump

Any update?

We're here for you man.

[RelationshipIssues]

Things continued largely in the same vein as I noted previously - although recently she had indicated she'd start restricting the time she spent with her friend somewhat she was still constantly on the phone/texting when not with her and had also arranged a 3 day trip to a medical facility a fair distance away in order to get a second opinion about her surgery.

I lost it last night and exploded - full meltdown style, I also forced consequences in that our kids are now aware we are having problems and may well split up (please note however that we haven't done this in a tear kids apart way - its actually been fairly 'nicely presented' together somewhat to my surprise - ie. we're arguing a lot and having problems but we both still love you etc.).

Frankly at this point I don't know if I want us to stay together or not even if she did turn around and honestly try to work at things I think we may have passed that point and be far too different people today to be compatible.

Downsides - not my finest hour, irrational explosions and probably ill-timed as things were 'friendly' between us for the couple of days previously ... I kinda feel I'm on the verge of cracking up and just needed to get things into the light finally so we can start doing something.

Brightsides - really impressed with how my kids have handled things so far, very rational and they are the solid stable people I knew they were (didn't stop me being shit scared obviously). Actually impressed with how my wife reacted - she hasn't been vindictive or said anything negative about me to the kids which has surprised me (nor have I to the kids).
Finally went out with a couple of friends last night and opened up to them about everything, got absolutely hammered which effectively turned my mind to mush for the night and was well needed. This morning feel a bit dodgy, but far better than I have any right to considering.

PS - Thanks for all the advice and comments.

[Edward64]

I think you bail on the relationship. I think the wife has moved on.

You have to make sure the kids know you love them and they are not the reason for this breakup ... and follow thru by communicating and supporting them through adulthood.

[PilotMan]

Sorry to hear that you are going through all of this. I think you've gotten enough advice from here to determine a course of action. To me it does sound, at the very least, that she isn't putting your marriage first. You've probably hit the nail on the head by saying that you have become very different people than who you started out as, and that you realize that perhaps there is just too big a tear to mend.

Good luck, your path ahead is not an easy one. We are here to help support you.

[jeff061]

Downsides - not my finest hour, irrational explosions and probably ill-timed as things were 'friendly' between us for the couple of days previously ... I kinda feel I'm on the verge of cracking up and just needed to get things into the light finally so we can start doing something.

Things were friendly because you were bottling everything up. Had to let it out at some point or you would stress yourself to the grave. At the end of the day you need to take care of yourself in even the healthiest of relationships. Vent at her followed up with getting hammered with friends? Long overdue.

Glad things are going well all around with the kids.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by RelationshipIssues

Brightsides - really impressed with how my kids have handled things so far, very rational and they are the solid stable people I knew they were (didn't stop me being shit scared obviously). Actually impressed with how my wife reacted - she hasn't been vindictive or said anything negative about me to the kids which has surprised me (nor have I to the kids).

Having lived through a divorce as a kid, I can tell you that they've very likely seen and felt this thing coming for quite some time. Kids are especially sensitive to the love shared (or lacking) between their parents.

[RelationshipIssues]

Definitely struggling to stay sane at times - my wife appears wholly unaffected by things; she's still coming and going at her whim while I'm trying to keep things sane for the kids.

Frankly I don't know what else I CAN do, I don't want the kids adversely affected and she's simply not planning them into the equation. Its incredibly hard for me to remain upbeat and normal around them continually, the stress I'm feeling is a tad on the ludicrous side at times.

Tomorrow morning she's off with her friend for three days for the second opinion - in some ways I think the prolonged absence will be easier than her coming and going at all hours.

I've a counseling session (second one so far) on Tuesday and frankly that can't come fast enough ..

I'm glad it appears she wants to do things in a way which doesn't leave the kids being torn to pieces - but its far harder for me to keep going than her as she appears to have planned/decided that the marriage was over far before I realized that was the case and I'm the one struggling to adjust to things at the same time as doing the parenting ... don't get me wrong I love being a parent and raising my kids is my favorite thing in my life, but at the moment I'm somewhat concerned I'm going to sink into a big blubbery mess in front of them at some point.

[DaddyTorgo]

I find the whole "3 day visit to another doctor in another town for a second opinion" to be really shady.

Stay strong man!

[RelationshipIssues]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I find the whole "3 day visit to another doctor in another town for a second opinion" to be really shady.

I found/find a lot of what was going on incredibly odd/shady - but I believe a lot of it is real, its just that she has already emotionally left the marriage and prefers to be away from her family rather than involved in it.

The hospital in question is around a 5-6 hour drive away, so they are going down one day - the test is on another day and then they drive back on the third day, it could have all be done in a single day or an overnight stay at most ... but its obvious that my wife wants to have fun spending time with her friend there.

(I don't think there is a sexual component to things now - just a near obsessive friendship and the excitement of acting like a teenager without any responsibilities rather than a married adult)

[BYU 14]

Wow, so sorry you have to be going through all this. She is being very selfish and sounds like she has definitely checked out and you realize that.

Try and stay strong for the kids and remember, it will get better and all things will work out for the best for you. Wishing you and your kids all the best.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by RelationshipIssues

I found/find a lot of what was going on incredibly odd/shady - but I believe a lot of it is real, its just that she has already emotionally left the marriage and prefers to be away from her family rather than involved in it.

The hospital in question is around a 5-6 hour drive away, so they are going down one day - the test is on another day and then they drive back on the third day, it could have all be done in a single day or an overnight stay at most ... but its obvious that my wife wants to have fun spending time with her friend there.

(I don't think there is a sexual component to things now - just a near obsessive friendship and the excitement of acting like a teenager without any responsibilities rather than a married adult)

Sorry you are going through this.
It sounds like things are basically done at this point.

Here is one piece of solid advice I hope you can accept. The minute that you decide it is over and "irreconcilable" you immediately have to treat it like a business transaction and your action can not consider the emotions you once felt. Any "trauma" experienced by the kids will be shorter and less damaging in the long run this way.

First one to leave loses the house in most of these cases. If she abandons the home, lock her out, change the keys and remove her stuff. I would have it shipped to the friend's house or to a storage facility for a show of good faith.

But sooner or later this becomes a business deal and in business you would never let your competition possess your most valuable asset for an indeterminate amount of time in hopes they would treat you right. Don;t do that here.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Sorry you are going through this.
It sounds like things are basically done at this point.

Here is one piece of solid advice I hope you can accept. The minute that you decide it is over and "irreconcilable" you immediately have to treat it like a business transaction and your action can not consider the emotions you once felt. Any "trauma" experienced by the kids will be shorter and less damaging in the long run this way.

First one to leave loses the house in most of these cases. If she abandons the home, lock her out, change the keys and remove her stuff. I would have it shipped to the friend's house or to a storage facility for a show of good faith.

But sooner or later this becomes a business deal and in business you would never let your competition possess your most valuable asset for an indeterminate amount of time in hopes they would treat you right. Don;t do that here.

Considering all things, her still leaving on this 3 day trip would be the back breaker. I'd toss all her shit and change the locks on the doors.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Considering all things, her still leaving on this 3 day trip would be the back breaker. I'd toss all her shit and change the locks on the doors.

Divorce is a marathon, not a sprint. If you win this temporary piece of satisfaction in standing up for something she doesn't care about anyway, you create a narrative that a decent lawyer could use to rip you a new one.

You don't have the right to kick her out of her legal home. If you think this is headed toward divorce, and it sounds like, sorry, she's having some sort of mid-life crisis and is unwilling or unable to be a marriage partner, then hire the best lawyer you can and follow his or her advice to the letter.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Divorce is a marathon, not a sprint. If you win this temporary piece of satisfaction in standing up for something she doesn't care about anyway, you create a narrative that a decent lawyer could use to rip you a new one.

You don't have the right to kick her out of her legal home. If you think this is headed toward divorce, and it sounds like, sorry, she's having some sort of mid-life crisis and is unwilling or unable to be a marriage partner, then hire the best lawyer you can and follow his or her advice to the letter.

Yep. Take these three days to get current copies of all family assets (bank, pics of rooms in house, etc.) so that you have a good record of anything she might take after you start divorce proceedings. You're wasting time changing locks.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Lathum

err.

Usually I go to my kids soccer game but I can't make it tonight so my wife is going solo. Perhaps I should cancel my meeting...

It usually those who already at that point in their marriage and just need an excuse.