Getting F**KED by the state of Connecticut

[DaddyTorgo]

LIsten to Blackadar. Don't get fucked man.

[Lathum]

Update-Feedback would be appreciated

So I was able to sort out some of the original information that wasn't conveyed properly. The debt owed appears that it is fro the time I lived there. I was able to get a letter from NJ showing when I registered my vehicle there and the Waterbury Tax Assesor said that was no good since I didn't inform them within 26 months. The Tax offce basically said I owe the debt, no way around it.

The kicker is I also owe debt on my other car that was there, that I never registered in CT, but because I lived there they said I owe it. So I owe for a car that was never registered there, and I owe for a car I had registered there even though I had moved already and can prove it. Such a fucking scam.

So here is where we are at. I spoke with the Tax Clerks office. They said the collection agency, Taxserv, is basicaly contracted to collect the debt, but the city still owns it. The collection agency gets a collection fee. The city will not negotiate down to just the principle, etc...

The clerk asked if I had contacted the collection agency, I had not. She refered me to them regarding any payment. I asked her what the ramifications are, she said I can't register a vehicle in Connecticut. No problem there. She never once made any mention of legal action, the only thing she said is the collection agency may be able to report it, but to date that hasn't happened. She didn't seem interested at all in discussing finances, just cofirming the amount and that it was owed.

I received a letter from the collection agency about 3 months ago. The original phone call and that letter are the only contact to date.

Thought?

[Rizon]

Still nothing on your credit report?

[Logan]

Seems like the state of Connecticut is about to get F**KED by Lathum!

[booradley]

Originally Posted by Logan

Seems like the state of Connecticut is about to get F**KED by Lathum!

She's needed a good f*cking for a while now. All the guys talk about it ...

[stevew]

Maybe you just make sure that you have a big enough contingency fund in order to hire a lawyer if they ever try to sue you?

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Logan

Seems like the state of Connecticut is about to get ignored by Lathum!

Slight adjustment made.

[molson]

CT just isn't working out as a state. It's like a shady title loan company or a low-level mafia loan shark now. Has anyone ever said, "man, I love Connecticut!", or "Damn, Hartford's a great city!"

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Still nothing on your credit report?

Nothing

The thing is my wife is much less willing to take risk than I am. I want to ignore it since I feel like they really can't get to me. I haven't seen one instance of the suing anyone, garnishing wages, etc...and when I spoke with the clerk from Waterbury she didn't seem even remotely interested in discussing finances. Her answer to everything was to talk to the collection agency. You would think if they were that serious they would threaten legal action.

My wife wants to seriously consider paying it to make it go away so it isn't over our heads. She is also worried that on the off chance they come after us down the road we will owe a much larger amount.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Nothing

The thing is my wife is much less willing to take risk than I am. I want to ignore it since I feel like they really can't get to me. I haven't seen one instance of the suing anyone, garnishing wages, etc...and when I spoke with the clerk from Waterbury she didn't seem even remotely interested in discussing finances. Her answer to everything was to talk to the collection agency. You would think if they were that serious they would threaten legal action.

My wife wants to seriously consider paying it to make it go away so it isn't over our heads. She is also worried that on the off chance they come after us down the road we will owe a much larger amount.

Yeah, it's a risk for sure. I honestly think they're blowing smoke up your ass in a half-assed highway robbery attempt.

Do you know if it's hit news agencies there yet? Papers, local-guy-on-your-side reporting? Might be worth a call/email/letter to a paper or bored newscaster if not.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Yeah, it's a risk for sure. I honestly think they're blowing smoke up your ass in a half-assed highway robbery attempt.

Do you know if it's hit news agencies there yet? Papers, local-guy-on-your-side reporting? Might be worth a call/email/letter to a paper or bored newscaster if not.

Internet searches turn up next to nothing about it. That is why I am really skeptical about them being able to actually do anything to me. You would think if they had taken legal action against people in the past there would be stories, blogs, forum posting, etc... all over about it.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Internet searches turn up next to nothing about it. That is why I am really skeptical about them being able to actually do anything to me. You would think if they had taken legal action against people in the past there would be stories, blogs, forum posting, etc... all over about it.

There must be others out there in the same situation as you are. I think I'd contact a local paper around where you use to live. See their reaction. That's the route I'd go.

I'd be really hesitant to cough up that amount of money without someone physically dragging me through the streets holding onto my balls.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Internet searches turn up next to nothing about it. That is why I am really skeptical about them being able to actually do anything to me. You would think if they had taken legal action against people in the past there would be stories, blogs, forum posting, etc... all over about it.

I found this link around when you started this thread, it's a few years old and the article isn't there anymore, but there's 200+ angry comments about this being a common practice in Stamford. I haven't read them all to see how they were resolved, if there's any useful info, etc.

Despite delay, taxpayers still must pay - Topix

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Nothing

The thing is my wife is much less willing to take risk than I am. I want to ignore it since I feel like they really can't get to me. I haven't seen one instance of the suing anyone, garnishing wages, etc...and when I spoke with the clerk from Waterbury she didn't seem even remotely interested in discussing finances. Her answer to everything was to talk to the collection agency. You would think if they were that serious they would threaten legal action.

My wife wants to seriously consider paying it to make it go away so it isn't over our heads. She is also worried that on the off chance they come after us down the road we will owe a much larger amount.

What would it be in 3 years or whenever it expires? the most ridiculous thing of all is the 18% interest. I'd love to know their investing secrets where that's the return they expected.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

What would it be in 3 years or whenever it expires? the most ridiculous thing of all is the 18% interest. I'd love to know their investing secrets where that's the return they expected.

I havent done the exact math but it would likely double in that time.

[Passacaglia]

It would double in 4.18 years, FWIW.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

It would double in 4.18 years, FWIW.

well that is actually a good thing considering the statute of limitations runs out before then

[Subby]

When you wait forever for to pay your tax debt, you get bored.

When you get bored you start staring out windows.

When you start staring out windows you see things you shouldn’t see.

When you see things you shouldn’t see you need to vanish.

When you need to vanish you fake your own death.

When you fake your own death you dye your eyebrows.

When you dye your eyebrows you attend your own funeral as a guy named Phil Schifley.

Don’t attend your own funeral as a guy named Phil Schifley.

Pay your tax debt.

[JediKooter]

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!

[lynchjm24]

I got a letter too. For a car that wasn't registered for the time period the bill reflected - it was the same period early 00s. From the lovely city of Bristol.

Difference for me is that I've been registering cars in Connecticut the whole time - so someone must have just determined this debt existed. I will be ignoring it for as long as it takes.

It's ironic that Waterbury would even attempt to enforce laws. For those that aren't familiar with the history of Waterbury's mayors.... They could fill an entire prison with those scumbags.

[Mustang]

Damn, just read this.

Sounds like CT fucked up some years ago, now they have caught it and are trying to collect penalties based on their own fuck up. Which makes me believe that because they haven't gone after you beyond the collection agency with anything hard, that there is probably some law that invalidates them asking for the tax after 11 years in the first place. (That would be like putting a law on the books for taxing everyone .1% of the value of their car, not telling anyone and then trying to enforce it 10 years later with penalties. Legally, it was on the books, however.. assume there has to be some law about notifying people.)

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Subby

When you wait forever for to pay your tax debt, you get bored.

When you get bored you start staring out windows.

When you start staring out windows you see things you shouldn’t see.

When you see things you shouldn’t see you need to vanish.

When you need to vanish you fake your own death.

When you fake your own death you dye your eyebrows.

When you dye your eyebrows you attend your own funeral as a guy named Phil Schifley.

Don’t attend your own funeral as a guy named Phil Schifley.

Pay your tax debt.

Love that commercial.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Damn, just read this.

Sounds like CT fucked up some years ago, now they have caught it and are trying to collect penalties based on their own fuck up. Which makes me believe that because they haven't gone after you beyond the collection agency with anything hard, that there is probably some law that invalidates them asking for the tax after 11 years in the first place. (That would be like putting a law on the books for taxing everyone .1% of the value of their car, not telling anyone and then trying to enforce it 10 years later with penalties. Legally, it was on the books, however.. assume there has to be some law about notifying people.)

It has nothing to do with Connecticut per se. These are local municipalities chasing local property taxes.

[Lathum]

Thus ends this saga and not well

I have just been served with an Alias tax warrant from the city and owe the amount $8311.09 by 12/31 or it goes up. Merry fucking Xmas.

It isn't about the money, we have the money, I'll be writing a check tonight. It is the principal that government can legally extort money from you and there is no recourse.

I feel violated.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Thus ends this saga and not well

I have just been served with an Alias tax warrant from the city and owe the amount $8311.09 by 12/31 or it goes up. Merry fucking Xmas.

It isn't about the money, we have the money, I'll be writing a check tonight. It is the principal that government can legally extort money from you and there is no recourse.

I feel violated.

That's insanity. Can't you call a tax lawyer and pay them 2k to bargin that amount down or something?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

That's insanity. Can't you call a tax lawyer and pay them 2k to bargin that amount down or something?

That would likely result in him paying at least 10,311.09 plus any additional penalties that may ensue.

This is one area where the government is unchecked.

[lighthousekeeper]

So what if you just ignore it? What would happen?

[molson]

Are you sure it's the city and not just some collection agency? It looks like an "alias tax warrant" might be a CT statutory creation that permits private collection agencies to pretend they're government agencies.

If for some insane reason I decided to pay any of this, I'd do it in person at city hall, I'd hand it to the mayor in person, maybe bring a news crew. What's a few hundred for a flight there if you're willing to give them $8k+?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by stevew

That would likely result in him paying at least 10,311.09 plus any additional penalties that may ensue.

This is one area where the government is unchecked.

yup, they are very clear they will not negotiate anything, tried it already

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

So what if you just ignore it? What would happen?

I would just as soon not find out since the interest is still accumulating at 18%, I am also not a fan of getting mail addressed to me that say warrant when I open it.

Originally Posted by molson

Are you sure it's the city and not just some collection agency? It looks like an "alias tax warrant" might be a CT statutory creation that permits private collection agencies to pretend they're government agencies.

If for some insane reason I decided to pay any of this, I'd do it in person at city hall, I'd hand it to the mayor in person, maybe bring a news crew. What's a few hundred for a flight there if you're willing to give them $8k+?

positive. I have done research, called the town, and the warrant has the city revenue collectors stamp and signature.

I will be contacting media outlets for sure.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I would just as soon not find out since the interest is still accumulating at 18%.

If it helps, if you choose to go the fugitive route, you could crash at my house for a couple days.

[molson]

Maybe this will help Waterbury lure a minor league baseball team? I was born in Waterbury, and my father used to go to a ton of games at Municipal Stadium there. He said it's a shithole. Maybe they can fix it up and re-name it Lathum Stadium. I'd demand that much at least. Fuckers.

[Chubby]

you were given a warrant via mail??? was it even certified mail?

[bhlloy]

Chubby has a point. Even certified mail isn't good enough to prove delivery of a warrant as far as I'm aware

[Lathum]

no, but this debt is legit, I have done enough research.

My wife made a good point, we were on the fence about paying it before this and this pushes us over the edge. Having the piece of mind will at least be nice.

[DanGarion]

What the hell is a city taxing you for a car for anyway? Do you live in the UK?

[molson]

There was a collection agency involved here at some point though, wasn't there? But now its the city again? I'd worry that this is like responding to a spam email - the collection agency will sell your personal info and other agencies will try to dig up everything they can find on you (or make stuff up) because they know you'll pay to have them go away. Giving in for "peace of mind" to me just feels like an invitation to further victimization, but that may just be a gut reaction.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by molson

There was a collection agency involved here at some point though, wasn't there? But now its the city again? I'd worry that this is like responding to a spam email - the collection agency will sell your personal info and other agencies will try to dig up everything they can find on you (or make stuff up) because they know you'll pay to have them go away. Giving in for "peace of mind" to me just feels like an invitation to further victimization, but that may just be a gut reaction.

The agency hand;es collection for the city. However, everything I have researched, including talking to attornys indicates the city can come after me and they are now involved again, I would rathen not have it get worse, incur more interest plus court fees.

It feels like quitting and being taken advantage of, but I honestly think there isn't another way

[lighthousekeeper]

He spoke to the town and they said that the state (or city whatever) still owns the debt - the collection agency was just acting as their representative.

It's legit and he owes the money - but it would be a lot more fun for us if you continue to fight this.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

no, but this debt is legit,

In so much as $8k for the privilege of owning a car in a city for 18 months could be considered "legit."

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by molson

In so much as $8k for the privilege of owning a car in a city for 18 months could be considered "legit."

The principle is about 2300, the rest interest. It conveniently took 10 years of interest accruing for them to contact me.


They are also charging me for time I didn't live there and will not accept any documentation indicating otherwise stating I have only 2 years to provide that.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The principle is about 2300, the rest interest. It conveniently took 10 years of interest accruing for them to contact me.


They are also charging me for time I didn't live there and will not accept any documentation indicating otherwise stating I have only 2 years to provide that.

I wonder if this is a potential 1983 violation, it seems like you should have been owed some type of due process.

[DaddyTorgo]

It also seems ridiculous that they can chase you down 10 years later, but you only have 2 years to provide the documentation of when you lived there. That seems like a massively fucked-up thing.

[Dreghorn2]

Just an amazing tale and i am very sympathetic (and outraged at the same time) to think that a state government can get away with this.

It sucks but i agree with you, pay it.

I will repeat once again... it sucks! but i would pay it, piece of mind etc..

You exchanged $8000 for a great bitchfest story.

Small consolation.

[Daimyo]

Sounds like you're resigned to paying it so you don't have the debt over your head and I might do the same in your situation. But not being in your situation I have the liberty to approach it completely theoretically and so here are my thoughts...

Above you mentioned a three year statute of limitations. Assuming that is true, the worst case is that you get sued before three years and have to pay the amount with three years more interest (8,311.09 * 1.015^36 = $14,204.81). So if you pay you pay $8k now, if you don't pay you either pay $0 or $14k in three years.

Unless you're super risk adverse, if you think its only 50/50 they come after you, then you're better off not paying now. If you're risk neutral there has to be a >58% chance of them suing you (and winning) for you to be better off paying now. It seems to me very unlikely they'll sue. The primary means they have of forcing people to pay is putting holds on future registrations which probably is very effective overall since most of the people who owe probably still live there. They probably make plenty of money recovering from people who still live in CT and wouldn't want to risk the bad publicity of actually suing someone and threatening that gravy train.

If you're risk adverse and can't stomach the idea of having a surprise $14k payment in three years, maybe you could put the full $8,311.09 in an ING savings account today and setup an auto transfer of $165/month to the account. That savings account will grow at roughly the same rate as the debt with interest and fully hedge your risk. If they sue you and win you empty the account to pay the debt. If they don't sue you and it expires you have an extra $14k in three years. That way you get the benefit of them likely not suing you with the comfort that you'll be able to afford to pay if they do.

[saldana]

wow...this is insane...i told you never to move to that shithole...not one good thing happened as a result of you living there.

[Logan]

They originally claimed you owed nearly $9900, now it's $8311. What got knocked down?

[stevew]

I'm somewhat surprised they never have tried to garnish. At this point that is the only thing offhand that suggests that you could possibly not pay it. Seems like they could have easily taken your wages but haven't. If their plan for collection is to have you mail a check, that's a weak plan by them.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The principle is about 2300, the rest interest. It conveniently took 10 years of interest accruing for them to contact me.


They are also charging me for time I didn't live there and will not accept any documentation indicating otherwise stating I have only 2 years to provide that.

I agree with your decision. Better to put it in the rear view mirror and move on. When you're a crusty old man you can waste time and mental energy fighting crap like this.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

Sounds like you're resigned to paying it so you don't have the debt over your head and I might do the same in your situation. But not being in your situation I have the liberty to approach it completely theoretically and so here are my thoughts...

Above you mentioned a three year statute of limitations. Assuming that is true, the worst case is that you get sued before three years and have to pay the amount with three years more interest (8,311.09 * 1.015^36 = $14,204.81). So if you pay you pay $8k now, if you don't pay you either pay $0 or $14k in three years.

Unless you're super risk adverse, if you think its only 50/50 they come after you, then you're better off not paying now. If you're risk neutral there has to be a >58% chance of them suing you (and winning) for you to be better off paying now. It seems to me very unlikely they'll sue. The primary means they have of forcing people to pay is putting holds on future registrations which probably is very effective overall since most of the people who owe probably still live there. They probably make plenty of money recovering from people who still live in CT and wouldn't want to risk the bad publicity of actually suing someone and threatening that gravy train.

If you're risk adverse and can't stomach the idea of having a surprise $14k payment in three years, maybe you could put the full $8,311.09 in an ING savings account today and setup an auto transfer of $165/month to the account. That savings account will grow at roughly the same rate as the debt with interest and fully hedge your risk. If they sue you and win you empty the account to pay the debt. If they don't sue you and it expires you have an extra $14k in three years. That way you get the benefit of them likely not suing you with the comfort that you'll be able to afford to pay if they do.

This is an awesomely intriguing idea. If they don't sue you and the statue of limitations expires, you put the 14k in Colin's college savings account.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

This is an awesomely intriguing idea. If they don't sue you and the statue of limitations expires, you put the 14k in Colin's college savings account.

Or the state changes statute of limitations or some other part of the law and I owe 50k in 10 years. Or they sue me and I have to pay mine and their legal fees. Not worth it.