OT: What Did Sammy Do?

[Canadian Football Guy]

Not even anything on MLB.com about it yet. Anyone hear from him yet or anyone on the Cubs?

[INDalltheway]

Sosa and Dusty Baker have talked on ESPN. Not much was said besides that he uses them for "exhibitions" to put on a show. He said he picked up the wrong bat, and he couldn't tell the difference.

This really sucks being a Cub fan.

[Philliesfan980]

hmm... nothing on MLB.com yet.. MLB.COM is run by Major league baseball.. Who knows about this already probably.. hmm...

j/k, but you never know!

[GrantDawg]

How long was Bell out after the corked bat incedent?

[Philliesfan980]

"How long was Bell out after the corked bat incedent?"

I think he got a 10 game suspension.

[INDalltheway]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
How long was Bell out after the corked bat incedent?

Belle was out for 10 games originally, but it was reduced to 7 games.

Wilton Guerrero was suspended for 8 games in 1997.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by INDalltheway
Belle was out for 10 games originally, but it was reduced to 7 games.

Wilton Guerrero was suspended for 8 games in 1997.

Then my guess is he'll do 7. There is nothing he can do to earn back his credibility, though. This is going to lose him some $$$ in future endorsements.

[Easy Mac]

5, tops.

And Sosa picks up a wine sponsorship. He already whines all the time anyway.

[SackAttack]

Hmm...3do is in bankruptcy. Wonder if they'd sue to recover what they paid him to endorse High Heat? "The taint of a corked bat could adversely affect our product, which has value while we're in bankruptcy. Therefore, we wish to disassociate ourselves from any association with Sammy Sosa, and to recover the monies paid him to endorse said product."

Hm.

[Philliesfan980]

"Then my guess is he'll do 7. There is nothing he can do to earn back his credibility, though. This is going to lose him some $$$ in future endorsements."

Realistically, only time will tell whether or not this is how he generated all his home runs or not. When he gets off his suspension (assuming that he gets one of course), we will all see whether he goes back to "Slammin Sosa" or not.

[sterlingice]

I dunno- call me crazy, but I actually believe the guy. I mean, have you seen how many bats have broken lately because of the shaved down handles? It's just too risky to use one and I doubt a guy with 500 homers just started doing it. If he had been doing it before, he would have been caught 400 homers ago on a broken bat then.

SI

[Philliesfan980]

"I dunno- call me crazy, but I actually believe the guy. I mean, have you seen how many bats have broken lately because of the shaved down handles? It's just too risky to use one and I doubt a guy with 500 homers just started doing it. If he had been doing it before, he would have been caught 400 homers ago on a broken bat then."

Thats what I thought too. I may be wrong, but all those broken bats are down at the handle, and you wouldn't be able to tell if a bat was corked (ie shatters) because the cork is only like 10 inches from the top of the bat. I think its pretty rare to have a bat break at the end like that. Could be wrong though.

[INDalltheway]

I was thinking that the Cubs should have had another player use a cracked cork bat. Then it breaks and they see the cork. Then the Cubs could say that their bats had been tampered with. Am I crazy or what? I like Sammy that much!

[Neuqua]

[INDalltheway]

Originally posted by Neuqua

I am with ya' Neq.

[daedalus]

I actually like Sosa. Can't stand him as a player and, after a time, that stupid tap-tap-kiss-kiss shit gets old but his enthusiasm is pretty cool.

I agree with whoever that there's no chance Sosa will get anything more than a slap on the wrist. Belle was easy for the Commissioner Office to suspend a long time since he was well-disliked. Sosa is a way different issue.

Meh.

[jerem77]

Originally posted by sterlingice
I dunno- call me crazy, but I actually believe the guy. I mean, have you seen how many bats have broken lately because of the shaved down handles? It's just too risky to use one and I doubt a guy with 500 homers just started doing it. If he had been doing it before, he would have been caught 400 homers ago on a broken bat then.

SI

I agree. If he'd been using a corked bat, he'd have been caught a long time ago. As far as hurting his reputation, I'm sure it will pass. Besides, aren't George Brett and Gaylord Perry in the Hall of Fame?

[TroyF]

You know, I remember watching a White Sox/Ranger game in 90 or so. I watched this scrawny 20 year old kid smack a 450 foot shot to the opposite field. It was Sammy Sosa.

I don't think that bat was corked, nor do I feel a majority of Sosa's HR's have been hit with a corked bat. I have no idea wheather this bat really was for exhibitions or not. Sammy hasn't been hitting the ball well this year. He has a SLG% just over .500. Maybe he felt he needed an edge. I don't know.

I do know that Sosa's improvement in HR was EASILY traced to an improvement in his plate discipline in '98. He'd been hitting 35-40 HR a year 5 years before the BIG year. His walks and OBP% jumped up and his HR's followed.

This will be a blight on his career. His haters will hate him even more. The fans of Mark McGwire will overlook the fact he used supplements and would be a far more likely steroid user than Sosa or Bonds. (There is no doubt he was using Andro) Just look at the "he can't hit in the clutch" comment. Note: Over the past three seasons, Sammy has hit .276 with a SLG% of .569 in close and late situations. During the same period he's hit .287 with a SLG% of .678 with runners in scoring position. Add in a .500 average with the bases loaded and I'm not sure how you can say he hasn't been a clutch player.

His fans will lose some respect for him. You have to. How much is up to the individual. As for me, I'm dissapointed in him. It was a stupid, moronic thing to do. I don't believe it is a consistent thing, nor do I believe you'll see a drop off in HR when he comes back from the bat incident. (which I do believe he'll be suspended 10 games for BTW)

I won't put an * next to his name either. Just my take on it.

TroyF

[Airhog]

They should have confiscated all of his bats and tested them. I would imagine this wasnt a bat for exhibitions only. Come on guys, if you knew corked bats were illegal wouldnt you take every precaution to make sure you used a non-corked bat during the game? I dont think Sosa is stupid, and if he used the corked bat during exhibitions he would have had the bat(s) marked as such. Don't feed me dog, and tell me its beef.

[pjstp20]

It's funny how everyone's jumping at this whole corked bat thing, when in reality a lot of the great power hitters of the last few years have been cheating with steroids. I guess the bat is more direct proof of cheating but look at McGwire, Bonds, Sosa and J. Gonzalez when they first came in the league and look at them now. It's ridiculous but whatever puts fans in the seats I guess.

[Neuqua]

Thanks for saving my night Troy.

I can keep my head up after all

[JonInMiddleGA]

Whatta maroon.

Looking at the last several cork cases, I'll say he ultimately sits for 7 games, most likely 10 initially then appealed downward. The appeals process would likely allow him to finish up this round of interleague play.

[Radii]

Originally posted by pjstp20
It's funny how everyone's jumping at this whole corked bat thing, when in reality a lot of the great power hitters of the last few years have been cheating with steroids. I guess the bat is more direct proof of cheating but look at McGwire, Bonds, Sosa and J. Gonzalez when they first came in the league and look at them now. It's ridiculous but whatever puts fans in the seats I guess.

This is why MLB so desparately needs to have mandatory steroid testing every year. I want so badly to belive that you're wrong(and really, I do) but how can I make any sort of an argument about it given the current crappy state of MLB drug testing.

[TroyF]

Just to update, they did confiscate all of Sosa's bats. We'll see if multiple bats have corks. My guess is they don't or he wouldn't be so outspoken so soon. If they do. . .

TroyF

[JeeberD]

OT: What Did Sammy Do?

Sammy cheated. Pure and simple...

[MrBug708]

Does anyone remember Wilton's corked bat? He hit the ball, shattered his bat and ran after the bat instead of to first. That just screams brilliance and innocence there

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Radii
This is why MLB so desparately needs to have mandatory steroid testing every year. I want so badly to belive that you're wrong(and really, I do) but how can I make any sort of an argument about it given the current crappy state of MLB drug testing.

As has been pointed out in a ton of articles since the collective bargaining agreement was reached, there are probably very few, if any, players using steroids anymore. They've moved on to a variety of supplements. Testing for steroids isn't going to catch anyone, other than maybe 1 or 2 marginal players trying to make a career-altering change in their physique.

[KWhit]

Originally posted by sterlingice
I dunno- call me crazy, but I actually believe the guy. I mean, have you seen how many bats have broken lately because of the shaved down handles? It's just too risky to use one and I doubt a guy with 500 homers just started doing it. If he had been doing it before, he would have been caught 400 homers ago on a broken bat then.

SI

So we're supposed to believe that the ONE AND ONLY time he accidently used a corked bat it just happened to break. Not only that, but it happened to break in such a way where the cork was visable. Not only that, but the umpire just happened to pick the bat up and notice the cork.

Wow! What a coincidence!

I really feel sorry for Sammy. I mean that's just really bad luck.

[Ksyrup]

Especially considering the fact that he's been scuffling lately. He only has 6 HRs this year and just had a 5 strikeout night.

Of course, cork won't do much for you if you swing and miss...

[KWhit]

From now on, I'll give Sammy about as much respect as I give Albert Belle - None.

All those 60 HR years definitely have an asterisk beside them as far as I'm concerned.

[Butter]

Originally posted by INDalltheway
He said he picked up the wrong bat, and he couldn't tell the difference.

Doesn't that mean he's probably been using them for quite some time? If you can't tell the difference, then what's to stop you?

[Ksyrup]

I don't know that I can believe this was the first time he did it. Even if it was totally innocent and he did use a corked bat to "wow" the crowds during batting practice, if someone slipped up once and left the bat for him to use during the game when they weren't supposed to, how does he know for sure that he never used it before? And if no one in the clubhouse - teammate, coach, or ballboy - knew about it and he policed himself, that just makes it all the more suspicious.

While I don't think this automatically taints his career HR numbers, the 60 HR seasons become a little less amazing to me in retrospect. If they find another corker among his bats, he's got a lot more 'splainin' to do.

I'm willing to buy the innocent excuse, but that still doesn't excuse him for putting himself in that situation to begin with. You weigh wowing the fans with a corked bat during BP against the possibility of accidentally using that bat during a game and having it shatter, and the choice is obvious - wow them with a regular bat during BP. It's not like he can't hit homers otherwise.

[MizzouRah]

Originally posted by Butter_of_69
Doesn't that mean he's probably been using them for quite some time? If you can't tell the difference, then what's to stop you?

My thoughts as well. I think he's lying. Why would you use them at all if there's any chance of confusion between a corked bat and a legal one? He just got caught and now all his fans are calling him out on it.


Todd

[TroyF]

Well, if he's lying, there should be multiple corked bats in his arsenal. Not just a single one.

The other thing to talk about is how much a cork really helps you. On ESPN they had a graphic last night that showed a corked bat gives you about 1.1 MPH extra on your swing. On a 400 foot HR, a corked bat sends the ball an extra 4 to 5 feet.

If he had it corked MORE than that, the bat would have been terribly unstable. I wouldn't believe for a second the bat wouldn't have shattered long before last night.

As Harold Reynolds talked about on Baseball Tonight, the interesting thing was Sosa's reaction. The bat breaks with half of the bat still in his hand and he doesn't hold onto it down to first base. In fact the part of the bat he drops is the one the catcher first notices has the cork in it which gets him busted.

I would think a guilty man would at the very least hold onto the first part of the bat, cutting the odds of his chances of getting caught down by half. (oops, this is FOFC, make it 2/3)

Again, we know Sammy used a corked bat for this one at bat. We know this hurts his credibility. Still, I'm not convinced that this was something that's been going on a long time. I'm also not convinced he's NOT lying. Some things of the story do add up, no matter how much his haters hope and pray they don't.

TroyF

[The Afoci]

Maybe I am crazy, but after the bat shattered, he just trotted to first and then to the dugout. If he knew that he had a corked bat, wouldn't he have tried to pick it up and go to the dugout. He has had many broken bats over the years and this is the first one that has been found to be corked.

Now, I am not saying he is innocent, but to me, maybe he isn't as guilty as it may appear. If I was cheating, I would try to cover it up more than allowing the umps to pick up the corked bat.

[Butter]

But if he has corked bats and says he can't tell the difference between them and the regulars, that tells me that he's, at the very least, extraordinarily stupid.

[MizzouRah]

Well, if he's lying, there should be multiple corked bats in his arsenal. Not just a single one.

The other thing to talk about is how much a cork really helps you. On ESPN they had a graphic last night that showed a corked bat gives you about 1.1 MPH extra on your swing. On a 400 foot HR, a corked bat sends the ball an extra 4 to 5 feet.

Exactly why he's stupid for using them, even if it's just one for showing off in batting practice. If it only amounts to 4-5 extra and he plays in Wrigley, why even do it? That's plain stupid!

He would have even looked more like an idiot if he ran out and picked the broken pieces of the bat up.


Todd

[Coffee Warlord]

Well, he's doomed any way you cut it now. Excuses or no excuses, truth or bullshit, he's pretty much destroyed his reputation.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Butter_of_69
But if he has corked bats and says he can't tell the difference between them and the regulars, that tells me that he's, at the very least, extraordinarily stupid.

That's the point. He brought this on himself by taking a chance that wasn't worth it. It's really a moot point as to whether he's lying. The damage has been done.

This might have been the first and only time he used it, and it might have been an accident, or every bat he's used for the past 10 years might have been corked, or the truth might be somewhere in between. It really doesn't matter at this point. He'll never be looked at the same ever again, because there's that range of possibilities that no one can ever fully prove or dis-prove.

Combine that fact with the "video clip" age we live in, and it will always be there. I guarantee you that when he dies, they'll show clips of him and McGwire from 1998 and that bat exploding, back to back, in the news pieces about his life.

[TroyF]

Todd,

I'm not talking about picking up the pieces of the bat that were on the ground, I'm talking about holding onto the half of the bat he had in his hand. He could have easily kept that bat and ran down to first and nobody would have thought about it for a second.

I think had he known he was using a corked bat, he'd have held onto that portion of it.

You could make the arguement it happened so fast he just "reacted" as well. It does strike me as odd that Sammy never even attempted to grab any portion of the bat on his way to the dugout though.

TroyF

[INDalltheway]

To add to TroyF... I also think if he knew he was using it he would have held onto the bat. The catcher was the one to notice the cork in the bat.

[Ksyrup]

Again, lying or not, it doesn't matter. It's only a matter of degree of suspicion now. He's forever tainted, since no one will be able to prove anything 100% one way or the other, as to his past accomplishments. It's all a matter of what each person believes, and I think we, as a society, are showing ourselves to be pretty unforgiving of people who make mistakes these days.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by TroyF
Well, if he's lying, there should be multiple corked bats in his arsenal. Not just a single one.

OR... this could represent a decidedly heightened level of duplicity involved. It's certainly possible that a player deciding to break the rules this way would pre-arrange a defense, knowing that (especially given his stature) getting caught would have potentially dire consequences.

It's possible that he and the equipment manager (or whomever else) sat down some time ago, and cooked up a plan for what to do and say if this sort of thing ever happened. It's not too far-fetched... make sure there's one corked bat in the pile with a number of lgal bats, and that way, if you're caught you can say it was just an oversight, and submit the bag or legal bats as supporting evidence.

I'm not saying it's an ironclad case that this is what happened... but deciding to use illegal equipment is a pretty big risk (of reputation if nothing else) and it might very well involve significant forethought.

Or, he could just be as dumb as he sounds for (1) making the judgment to use an illegal bat for non-official occasions, (2) leaving that bat commingled with the legal ones for use during games, and (3) not noticing that he had the marked illegal bat in hand during the game.


No matter how I feel about people prior to such a circumstance, my initial inclination when someone faces a major disgrace is to assume that everything that leaves their mouth in describing the circumstance is a lie. It's a shame that I feel that way, but it's experience-driven.

Every guy who gets nabbed in a cathouse was "just asking directions." Every politician who gets nailed taking a wad of cash from an illegal contributor was "a misunderstanding." Every athlete who gets caught positive for drugs of steroids was "using cold medicine" or "eating a poppyseed bagel" or somesuch. I suppose that there's 1 in 100 of these people who are telling the truth, and it's a shame that those few get caught up with the rest of them.

You get caught cheating in baseball? In my book, you're a cheater. You then start with a story about how you're innocent? Now you're a liar, too.

Sorry, Sammy. Wish it hadn't happened.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by QuikSand
Every guy who gets nabbed in a cathouse was "just asking directions." Every politician who gets nailed taking a wad of cash from an illegal contributor was "a misunderstanding." Every athlete who gets caught positive for drugs of steroids was "using cold medicine" or "eating a poppyseed bagel" or somesuch. I suppose that there's 1 in 100 of these people who are telling the truth, and it's a shame that those few get caught up with the rest of them.

...or every husband who's wife is murdered didn't do it.

QS is right on. Most people are lying, and it's a shame that the innocent ones get caught up in the automatic reaction we all have, but it's based on past experiences. Most people are guilty. And here, Sammy isn't completely innocent no matter what the circumstances are. He did do something wrong, it's just a matter of degree.

Between TroyF's belief and QS's belief, you have what Sammy Sosa is now facing in ever human being who cares enough to have an opinion on this subject. His reuptation is forever tarnished, regardless of the truth.

[TroyF]

QS,

All valid and good points.

Sammy hurt his credibility. There isn't any question about it. When you lie or cheat once, everything you say or do after that is thrown into question. I won't deny that for a second.

It's something he'll have to live with the rest of his career, wheather he's lying or telling the truth.

TroyF

[clintl]

I am skeptical that one incident is going to have a lasting effect on his reputation. Baseball history is full of such examples, and for the most part, they end up as little more than footnotes in a player's history. He cheated, either by accident or on purpose. Either way, he was an idiot, but he'll serve his suspension, and a year from now, it will be mostly forgotten.

[pjstp20]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
As has been pointed out in a ton of articles since the collective bargaining agreement was reached, there are probably very few, if any, players using steroids anymore. They've moved on to a variety of supplements. Testing for steroids isn't going to catch anyone, other than maybe 1 or 2 marginal players trying to make a career-altering change in their physique.

Thats news to me. There is no legal supplement on earth that is as effective as steroids. I'm 95 percent sure its rampant in baseball, in fact I know for a fact that a high school teamate of mine who now plays in the majors is using them. It is true that if there was scheduled testing no one would get caught, but if there was unanounced random testing you would catch more than a few.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by pjstp20
Thats news to me. There is no legal supplement on earth that is as effective as steroids. I'm 95 percent sure its rampant in baseball, in fact I know for a fact that a high school teamate of mine who now plays in the majors is using them. It is true that if there was scheduled testing no one would get caught, but if there was unanounced random testing you would catch more than a few.

I don't have the articles since this was a while ago (when the issue was in the news), but that was the sum total of the thoughts. If a Barry Bonds was using them, he's moved on to something else, so thinking that you're going to stop the use of performance-enhancing drugs by testing for steroids will be ineffective.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by clintl
I am skeptical that one incident is going to have a lasting effect on his reputation. Baseball history is full of such examples, and for the most part, they end up as little more than footnotes in a player's history. He cheated, either by accident or on purpose. Either way, he was an idiot, but he'll serve his suspension, and a year from now, it will be mostly forgotten.

But read the Sosa articles today. Wilton Guerrero, Albert Belle, Graig Nettles, Mickey Hatcher, etc. All of those names came up instantly. The only one they seemed to have forgotten about was Chris Sabo. And none of them were of the stature of Sosa. Belle, maybe, but not considering what Sosa has done in recent years. You can't just dismiss something like this when the player just happened to hit 60+ HRs for 3 straight years.

Gaylord Perry was about the only guy to ever get away with cheating when everyone knew it was occurring. I'm not sure he admitted it during his career, but it became like a joke after a while. I don't see Sammy getting that kind of slack, even if this was a one-time occurrence.

[illinifan999]

Young, naive though coming.

I personally really don't think Sammy cares if fans call him a cheater, a lying son of a bitch. He's making what 18 million? (guess.) He's pretty much set for life. Hell, if he wanted to he could just say, "Okay, I'm done with baseball, and just take all his money, and go buy a huge house on an island."
naive thought done.......

I beleive him. Like it was said, if he was guilty he wouldn't have just walked away from the broken bat. I really hope that when teh MLB does the testing with the bats that nothing is found.

Another thing I found amusing about this thread....:

At one point Sammy is being called incredibly, extraordinarily stupid if he was guilty and just left the broken bat without a second thought. Then it turns into he has a pre-arranged defense. I don't know why, but I found that funny.