Sailer lost at sea - Page 2

markprior22 · 06-11-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

They need to make something called "Abby's Law." Anyone going on some sort of high risk voyage, flight, expedition, etc, needs to post a bond/insurance worth like 5M dollars, or we absolutely will not look for you.

BIG +1...was just saying this to a co worker this morning. Post money up front, get an insurance policy, etc. Then go do whatever the hell you want.

Ryan S · 06-11-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

Now that we know she's okay, are we allowed to debate whether or not she's hot in good taste? Or do we wait until she's 18?

These are the moral conundrums of the internet age.

If she is 16 she is legal in Australia...

JonInMiddleGA · 06-11-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportsDino

Instead the general public response is 'oh that poor thing, I hope they save her'. The same public that bitches everytime two cents of their tax bill goes to feeding a person for a year.

In fairness, perhaps the public perceives the likelihood of one doing something worthwhile or even remotely interesting with their lives vs the likelihood of the other being anything more than a multi-generational drain on society.

Just sayin' ...

JediKooter · 06-11-2010, 02:44 PM

I heard the skank likes to sail because of all the seamen.

Come on, someone had to.

JediKooter · 06-11-2010, 03:31 PM

She should also have to watch every single episode of Gilligan's Island when she gets back.

stevew · 06-12-2010, 07:30 PM

I was reading about this on ESPN. The Aussies won't be seeking compensaion. On the other hand, the French vessel hasn't commented. It's like 10 days till they reach port. I don't know anything about oceanic salvage(other than what was in The Life Aquatic), but can't the French get a large amount for saving her? If they want to be dicks.

molson · 06-13-2010, 09:09 PM

Hopefully now she can get back to safer, more responsible teenage activities like drinking, drugs, unprotected sex. Then everyone will settle down.

larrymcg421 · 06-13-2010, 09:26 PM

If anyone can show that the accident happened had anything to do with her being a teenager, then I'll agree the family should pay. But by all accounts I've read, she handled everything professional and was properly trained for the voyage. Unless we're going to start charging everyone who gets into an accident like this, then all this whining about payment is silly.

And I disagree that this is a "worthless" activity. To me it sounds like something that can build character and experience in doing something on your own, particularly for someone who could otherwise just waste their time while waiting for that trust fund to come in.

Shkspr · 06-13-2010, 11:46 PM

How much are we going to charge Qantas for the advertising they received for being the spotter jet that found her? I hope the Sutherlands get a whole passel of cash for setting them up to look like heroes.

Groundhog · 06-13-2010, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportsDino

I am grumpy because of the number of times I hear about rescue efforts to save essentially rich people that want to show off how cool they are but fuck up. Often they do not end up compensating for the resources spent on a rescue (or the resources that need to be maintained in reserve for such rescues) and their happy thrill ride becomes our government welfare case.

Do we want resources to save lives, of course, real accidents happen, but if you are essentially just dicking around to prove something to yourself then I want the bill to be sent to your house. Maybe give them a long time to pay it off, but essentially make a whammy for reckless behavior.

As for awarding the Darwin award, I know it has higher standards, but my point is I have no sympathy for the girl. There are plenty of people struggling to survive ordinary life and bimbos like her and her folks are wasting lots of money and time risking their life for nothing. No problem as long as it is their money, but it isn't. Instead the general public response is 'oh that poor thing, I hope they save her'. The same public that bitches everytime two cents of their tax bill goes to feeding a person for a year.

And I'm just generally grumpy, haven't seen any good news in a long while, and I can't even profit off of this particular misery.

You pretty much echo my thoughts.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 06-14-2010, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I was reading about this on ESPN. The Aussies won't be seeking compensaion. On the other hand, the French vessel hasn't commented. It's like 10 days till they reach port. I don't know anything about oceanic salvage(other than what was in The Life Aquatic), but can't the French get a large amount for saving her? If they want to be dicks.

I'm guessing there are Somali pirates just frothing at the mouth to get ahold of this boat on the way back.

Marc Vaughan · 06-14-2010, 06:54 AM

I actually think its a very worthwhile experience for her - she's obviously incredibly talented and has spent a large portion of her young life learning how to be a sailor, why not let her try.

When a young gymnast goes to the olympics people cheer them on - this is no different in that its a talent being pushed to its fullest at an early age.

Yes its dangerous, but so is crossing the street - I personally think its incredibly brave of her parents to let her do this; heck my daughter has just got her first car and its taking all my will power to let her drive that ... let alone sail around the world.

(with regards to her being rescued - heck thats common decency imho, if someones in trouble you help them - if a plane crashes in the Atlantic should the people on that have to pay for their being rescued because they were off on a jolly holiday rather than 'having' to make their trip?)

Logan · 06-14-2010, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm guessing there are Somali pirates just frothing at the mouth to get ahold of this boat on the way back.

Good call...by the time the news reaches them, her kid might be trying to do something similar.

TroyF · 06-14-2010, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I actually think its a very worthwhile experience for her - she's obviously incredibly talented and has spent a large portion of her young life learning how to be a sailor, why not let her try.

When a young gymnast goes to the olympics people cheer them on - this is no different in that its a talent being pushed to its fullest at an early age.

Yes its dangerous, but so is crossing the street - I personally think its incredibly brave of her parents to let her do this; heck my daughter has just got her first car and its taking all my will power to let her drive that ... let alone sail around the world.

(with regards to her being rescued - heck thats common decency imho, if someones in trouble you help them - if a plane crashes in the Atlantic should the people on that have to pay for their being rescued because they were off on a jolly holiday rather than 'having' to make their trip?)

Far easier to call 16 year old girls "bimbos" than actually have a coherent thought on the subject Marc. You should be ashamed of yourself.

terpkristin · 06-14-2010, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I actually think its a very worthwhile experience for her - she's obviously incredibly talented and has spent a large portion of her young life learning how to be a sailor, why not let her try.

When a young gymnast goes to the olympics people cheer them on - this is no different in that its a talent being pushed to its fullest at an early age.

Yes its dangerous, but so is crossing the street - I personally think its incredibly brave of her parents to let her do this; heck my daughter has just got her first car and its taking all my will power to let her drive that ... let alone sail around the world.

I actually have a problem with gymnastics in particular, too, as those girls go to excessive lengths to stay light while they're young, really screwing up their development, causing issues later in life. In very few sports other than gymnastics are the athletes that young, they're typically over 18.

/tk

Lathum · 06-14-2010, 10:32 AM

I also don't get the hate for this girl. I think most of us would consider ourselves lucky if our kids turned out to be this ambitious.

Butter · 06-14-2010, 10:38 AM

I don't know that anyone hates her, I personally think that her family needs to be held accountable for all costs associated with the recovery of her and her boat. If you are going to go on a dangerous mission, don't expect others to foot the bill when you need bailed out due to your inexperience, or bad luck, or whatever.

I don't even know if anyone is disputing that, or if it just got caught up being stated in a venomous manner, so is being confused for girl hatred.

Swaggs · 06-14-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

Far easier to call 16 year old girls "bimbos" than actually have a coherent thought on the subject Marc. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Wrong post and poster.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-14-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Wrong post and poster.

Glad you said that, I was really confused.

Logan · 06-14-2010, 11:03 AM

I took it as Troy being sarcastic and he singled out Marc's post as one of the few "coherent thoughts" in the thread.

spleen1015 · 06-14-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

I took it as Troy being sarcastic and he singled out Marc's post as one of the few "coherent thoughts" in the thread.

This is how I took it, too.

TroyF · 06-14-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

I took it as Troy being sarcastic and he singled out Marc's post as one of the few "coherent thoughts" in the thread.

Bingo.

Lathum · 06-14-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I don't know that anyone hates her, I personally think that her family needs to be held accountable for all costs associated with the recovery of her and her boat. If you are going to go on a dangerous mission, don't expect others to foot the bill when you need bailed out due to your inexperience, or bad luck, or whatever.
.

I'm not sure I agree.

Should a mountain climber or a hiker trapped in the wild have to foot the rescue bill if there is an avalanche, flood, etc...?

Logan · 06-14-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm not sure I agree.

Should a mountain climber or a hiker trapped in the wild have to foot the rescue bill if there is an avalanche, flood, etc...?

I completely see it both ways, and there's probably a line somewhere that divides the situations...I just have no clue where it is.

Lathum · 06-14-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

I completely see it both ways, and there's probably a line somewhere that divides the situations...I just have no clue where it is.

I do as well, just trying to play devils advocate.

It just seems to me people are saying her family should have to pay more because she is a rich kid doing a rich kid activity. At least that seems the sentiment.

I'm just wondering if the uproar would be the same if this was a poor kid from Louisiana who got lost in the swamp while hiking.

Matthean · 06-14-2010, 12:43 PM

Abby's Dad is broke and inks reality TV deal.

Abby Sunderland's Father Laurence Inked Reality Show Deal

johnnyshaka · 06-14-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I do as well, just trying to play devils advocate.

It just seems to me people are saying her family should have to pay more because she is a rich kid doing a rich kid activity. At least that seems the sentiment.

I'm just wondering if the uproar would be the same if this was a poor kid from Louisiana who got lost in the swamp while hiking.

My point of view lies somewhere along the lines of if somebody else has to risk their life to save yours because you ventured off the beaten path then you need to be responsible for whatever measures were taken to rescue you. If that means taking out some sort of "rescue insurance" prior to your activity, then so be it.

Passacaglia · 06-14-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthean

Abby's Dad is broke and inks reality TV deal.

Abby Sunderland's Father Laurence Inked Reality Show Deal

I hope it's called, "In Your Face, Flying Balloon People!"

DanGarion · 06-14-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

The father of seven -- with an eighth on the way -- told the New York Post that he is broke and inked a contract for a reality-TV show, "Adventures in Sunderland," weeks after Abby set sail in January on her doomed trip.

WTF? 7 kids, broke and an 8th on the way. This really makes me want to force the government to work on population control...

Lathum · 06-14-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

My point of view lies somewhere along the lines of if somebody else has to risk their life to save yours because you ventured off the beaten path then you need to be responsible for whatever measures were taken to rescue you. If that means taking out some sort of "rescue insurance" prior to your activity, then so be it.

But wouldn't you say part of being a rescue worker is risking your life to save others? I would say the majority of rescues probably could have been preventable. Should every single person who needs those services be sent a bill?

johnnyshaka · 06-14-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

But wouldn't you say part of being a rescue worker is risking your life to save others? I would say the majority of rescues probably could have been preventable. Should every single person who needs those services be sent a bill?

I did say "off the beaten path"...

If you fell down an old well while walking in Central Park I would have no problem, as a taxpayer, footing the bill for your rescue but if you were hung up somewhere on the Empire State Building after a base jump went bad then screw you, that is all on you, my friend.

molson · 06-14-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I did say "off the beaten path"...

If you fell down an old well while walking in Central Park I would have no problem, as a taxpayer, footing the bill for your rescue but if you were hung up somewhere on the Empire State Building after a base jump went bad then screw you, that is all on you, my friend.

Sailing seems closer to the first one than the second one.

Yes, she was far away and everything. But it doesn't seem like that crazy or expensive a "rescue mission." Nor does it seem like that crazy or expensive an activity.

Fidatelo · 06-14-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Sailing seems closer to the first one than the second one.

Yes, she was far away and everything. But it doesn't seem like that crazy or expensive a "rescue mission." Nor does it seem like that crazy or expensive an activity.

You clearly have a different definition of expensive than I do.

molson · 06-14-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

You clearly have a different definition of expensive than I do.

It's not something I can afford, but this isn't plucking climbers by helicopter off of Mount Mckinley in the middle of winter.

She was sailing on a boat. Many, many people do it. All over the world.

stevew · 06-14-2010, 04:41 PM

I bet this guy's idea of "broke" and mine are two totally different things.

molson · 06-14-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I bet this guy's idea of "broke" and mine are two totally different things.

Well, there's "homeless guy broke" and "Antoine Walker broke". Definitely two different things.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-14-2010, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

It just seems to me people are saying her family should have to pay more because she is a rich kid doing a rich kid activity. At least that seems the sentiment.

Gee now that'd be a shock.

johnnyshaka · 06-14-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Sailing seems closer to the first one than the second one.

Yes, she was far away and everything. But it doesn't seem like that crazy or expensive a "rescue mission." Nor does it seem like that crazy or expensive an activity.

Quote from the first article posted in this thread:

Quote:

Abby is hundreds of miles from land. The nearest ship was about 400 miles away. The rescue effort is being coordinated by the French-controlled Reunion Islands and Australia. Sunderland had been sailing in 50- to 60-foot seas and it was dark when the EPIRB devices were activated.

Pardon the expression, but that hardly seems like a walk in the park.

johnnyshaka · 06-14-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

It's not something I can afford, but this isn't plucking climbers by helicopter off of Mount Mckinley in the middle of winter.

She was sailing on a boat. Many, many people do it. All over the world.

Sure, lots of people sail boats but very few do it where she was doing it otherwise it wouldn't be a big deal.

molson · 06-14-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Quote from the first article posted in this thread:

Pardon the expression, but that hardly seems like a walk in the park.

So how close does she have to stay to land before we tell her to suck it when she calls for help?

molson · 06-14-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Sure, lots of people sail boats but very few do it where she was doing it otherwise it wouldn't be a big deal.

It was a big deal because she was 16 and American. I'd be a big deal no matter where she ran into trouble.

But I assure you that lots of people sail, even long distances. Google it, it's a whole thing.

molson · 06-14-2010, 05:01 PM

Dola - and it was Australia that paid for this (and they seem pretty proud of their search-and-rescue capabilities), why are people here so upset? (besides the rich people thing).

johnnyshaka · 06-14-2010, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

So how close does she have to stay to land before we tell her to suck it when she calls for help?

When you have to scramble rescue efforts from two foreign countries half way around the world then I think you've gone a little too far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

It was a big deal because she was 16 and American. I'd be a big deal no matter where she ran into trouble.

But I assure you that lots of people sail, even long distances. Google it, it's a whole thing.

I don't care who she is, how old she is, or where she's from...IMO, it was reckless and she nearly paid for it with her life. Instead, somebody else's mom/dad/son/daughter had to drop everything worthwhile that they were doing to try and find her and whether the rescue teams were doing something life-threatening or not, they didn't need to be out there in the first place.

Actually, what if that rescue plane that eventually spotted her ended up having a malfunction of sorts and never made it back? What of the revenue lost of the fishing boat who likely went a couple hundred miles out of their way to pick her up? What if something happened/happens as a result of the detour?

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Dola - and it was Australia that paid for this (and they seem pretty proud of their search-and-rescue capabilities), why are people here so upset? (besides the rich people thing).

I'm sure the regular Aussie taxpayer isn't terribly happy to hear that the taxes he paid today went to save some careless sailor.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-14-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

some careless sailor.

There's nothing to indicate the sailor was particularly "careless", only recreational.

Would it have somehow been more noble or appropriate if the rescue was undertaken for, just for an example, a foreign-flagged for-profit fishing boat? I'd go with no.

johnnyshaka · 06-14-2010, 05:40 PM

From the same article I quoted above:

Quote:

The timing of Abby's trip was criticized by some because it was going to place her in the middle of the Indian Ocean when the stormy Southern Hemisphere winter was at hand.

So she knew what she was doing by heading to very rough seas...sounds careless to me.

terpkristin · 06-14-2010, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Sailing seems closer to the first one than the second one.

Yes, she was far away and everything. But it doesn't seem like that crazy or expensive a "rescue mission." Nor does it seem like that crazy or expensive an activity.

Sailing is a very expensive hobby. Just ask my dad...or my mom (our 37' sailboat is my dad's toy).

The minimum cost for her rescue mission is about 50k/day, the estimated operating cost of the ship that's going to get her (based on discussions on a sailing mailing list I'm on).

/tk

terpkristin · 06-14-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

But I assure you that lots of people sail, even long distances. Google it, it's a whole thing.

True. Though it's my opinion, based on reading memoirs of people who've done single-hand round-the-world-trips, and seeing interviews with people who've done it, and seeing interviews during things like America's Cup, that everybody who does it is slightly....out there.

I think you have to be slightly crazy to want to do it.

I have no "real" problem with her doing a single-hand round-the-world trip, though I do think that if she were a little older, she would have had more experience for other issues (mechanical and electrical issues) that reading her blog, it seems like she was unprepared to tackle.

I don't think anybody will ever be able to say if her mast was broken in this storm due to the insanity of the storm and it was just a "freak" accident or if she actually reefed her sail the wrong way, putting undo stress on the mast. I'll give her benefit of the doubt, Mother Nature is a bitch.

/tk

terpkristin · 06-14-2010, 05:54 PM

Triple Dola, I guess, based on my limited experience on the East Coast with search and rescue, the patients/subjects do end up having to pay for the for-pay resources that are called out. However, at least in the mid-Atlantic region, many of the response teams are volunteer.

/tk

Marc Vaughan · 06-14-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

My point of view lies somewhere along the lines of if somebody else has to risk their life to save yours because you ventured off the beaten path then you need to be responsible for whatever measures were taken to rescue you. If that means taking out some sort of "rescue insurance" prior to your activity, then so be it.

But who defines the 'beaten' path? - I used to do MotorX when I was younger for instance, that (at least the way we used to do it in an old Chalk quarry) was ludicrously dangerous looking back on it ..... similarly I have friends who have learnt to fly gliders, another incredibly dangerous prospect if it goes wrong etc.

I'd expect if you look into it statistically you'd probably find that her sailing is less dangerous (taking into account her experience and skills) than a lot of more common activities taken by unskilled people - eg. hiking through the wilderness etc.

Noop · 06-14-2010, 07:11 PM

If she is old enough to sail around the world why is she not old enough to be piledrived? Kidding.

Anyway if people want to endanger their own lives then so be it long as it doesn't interfere with mine.

06-11-2010, 02:44 PM	#54
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	I heard the skank likes to sail because of all the seamen. Come on, someone had to. __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

06-11-2010, 03:31 PM	#55
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	She should also have to watch every single episode of Gilligan's Island when she gets back. __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

06-13-2010, 09:26 PM	#58
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	If anyone can show that the accident happened had anything to do with her being a teenager, then I'll agree the family should pay. But by all accounts I've read, she handled everything professional and was properly trained for the voyage. Unless we're going to start charging everyone who gets into an accident like this, then all this whining about payment is silly. And I disagree that this is a "worthless" activity. To me it sounds like something that can build character and experience in doing something on your own, particularly for someone who could otherwise just waste their time while waiting for that trust fund to come in. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

06-14-2010, 10:38 AM	#67
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	I don't know that anyone hates her, I personally think that her family needs to be held accountable for all costs associated with the recovery of her and her boat. If you are going to go on a dangerous mission, don't expect others to foot the bill when you need bailed out due to your inexperience, or bad luck, or whatever. I don't even know if anyone is disputing that, or if it just got caught up being stated in a venomous manner, so is being confused for girl hatred. __________________ My listening habits

06-14-2010, 12:43 PM	#76
Matthean Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Aug 2008	Abby's Dad is broke and inks reality TV deal. Abby Sunderland's Father Laurence Inked Reality Show Deal __________________ Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table.

06-12-2010, 07:30 PM	#56
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I was reading about this on ESPN. The Aussies won't be seeking compensaion. On the other hand, the French vessel hasn't commented. It's like 10 days till they reach port. I don't know anything about oceanic salvage(other than what was in The Life Aquatic), but can't the French get a large amount for saving her? If they want to be dicks.

06-13-2010, 09:09 PM	#57
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Hopefully now she can get back to safer, more responsible teenage activities like drinking, drugs, unprotected sex. Then everyone will settle down.

06-13-2010, 11:46 PM	#59
Shkspr College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Amarillo, TX	How much are we going to charge Qantas for the advertising they received for being the spotter jet that found her? I hope the Sutherlands get a whole passel of cash for setting them up to look like heroes.

06-14-2010, 06:54 AM	#62
Marc Vaughan SI Games Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Melbourne, FL	I actually think its a very worthwhile experience for her - she's obviously incredibly talented and has spent a large portion of her young life learning how to be a sailor, why not let her try. When a young gymnast goes to the olympics people cheer them on - this is no different in that its a talent being pushed to its fullest at an early age. Yes its dangerous, but so is crossing the street - I personally think its incredibly brave of her parents to let her do this; heck my daughter has just got her first car and its taking all my will power to let her drive that ... let alone sail around the world. (with regards to her being rescued - heck thats common decency imho, if someones in trouble you help them - if a plane crashes in the Atlantic should the people on that have to pay for their being rescued because they were off on a jolly holiday rather than 'having' to make their trip?)

06-14-2010, 10:32 AM	#66
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I also don't get the hate for this girl. I think most of us would consider ourselves lucky if our kids turned out to be this ambitious.

06-14-2010, 11:03 AM	#70
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	I took it as Troy being sarcastic and he singled out Marc's post as one of the few "coherent thoughts" in the thread.

06-14-2010, 04:41 PM	#85
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I bet this guy's idea of "broke" and mine are two totally different things.

06-14-2010, 05:01 PM	#92
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Dola - and it was Australia that paid for this (and they seem pretty proud of their search-and-rescue capabilities), why are people here so upset? (besides the rich people thing). Last edited by molson : 06-14-2010 at 05:02 PM.

06-14-2010, 05:54 PM	#98
terpkristin Grizzled Veteran Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ashburn, VA	Triple Dola, I guess, based on my limited experience on the East Coast with search and rescue, the patients/subjects do end up having to pay for the for-pay resources that are called out. However, at least in the mid-Atlantic region, many of the response teams are volunteer. /tk __________________ GO TERPS! https://www.flickr.com/photos/terpkristin https://twitter.com/terpkristin

06-14-2010, 07:11 PM	#100
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	If she is old enough to sail around the world why is she not old enough to be piledrived? Kidding. Anyway if people want to endanger their own lives then so be it long as it doesn't interfere with mine. __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

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