Alright Boys, Here we go! The Football Manager 2012 thread (Game OUT!)

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

You also don't get the ingame ads that you get with the bought version.

Duh, ingame ads for a purchased game ? What is that ?

[Epi_862]

Originally Posted by Alf

Duh, ingame ads for a purchased game ? What is that ?

Yeah, its a slippery slope this one. Whats the next horrifying step? Advertisements in movie theaters? Product placement in tv-shows? Oh, the humanity.

Also, i find it absolutely fantastic when (as with the sega forum post) people who clearly just want to pirate the shit out of everything try to come up with half-witted reasons why the DRM will drop sales. Like someone said before, steam is great, and theres absolutely no reason not to use it - that is, unless you want to pirate games.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - I'm resolved that like 99.9% of the people on the Sega forum just want to pirate the game and that's why they're bitching.

I hope SI realize that.

I wish there was a way to tie forum registration over there to Steam-activation of the game, so you'd cut all the pirates right out.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah - I'm resolved that like 99.9% of the people on the Sega forum just want to pirate the game and that's why they're bitching.

Some will be - some won't, part of the problem with t'internet is that people get caught up in non-event flame stories very easily ... especially those people who aren't technically savvy.

That being said its not like this will be a decision which has been made lightly (wasn't involved in it personally) and I know that some of SEGA's other high profile games have already taken this route - so I believe they already have some experience in the reactions and long term effects of such a shift.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

Also, using steam will make piracy easier, since its the easiest form of DRM to crack. Deus EX HR was cracked very quickly and you don't have to use Steam at all if you get the pirated version(You also don't get the ingame ads that you get with the bought version).

I don't want to get bogged down in a debate on this (and the views posted here are my own - not 'official' views from either SI or SEGA):

You say 'very quickly' - but actually one of the advantages of STEAM is that it delays crackers by its very nature; often before on-line authentication games would be cracked before their release via. leaked review copies or disks from a duplication plant.

With STEAM its possible to embed part of the required code for the game (ie. not just a protection alogrithm) online and thus prevent crackers from hacking into the game until it has actually formally been released at retail (ie. delaying the creation of any potential cracks until its actually in the shops and selling).

That might sound like a 'minor' thing; ie. it'll still likely get broken - but consider that 75% of most games sales come in the first month of its release ... and you can see why its desirable.

[DaddyTorgo]

MV wins.

[Miller Time]

Is there any benefit to pre-order early through Steam? Do pre-orders get first dibs on being able to download it?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Miller Time

Is there any benefit to pre-order early through Steam? Do pre-orders get first dibs on being able to download it?

They usually put up the files a couple days early for you to preload so you can play as soon as it's out.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Ooh that is cool, and I see up above the bit about the revamped team report. That is pretty cool stuff, but being able to add a league on the fly is great. Earlier in an FM09 game I walked away from a job and took over a team that was languishing at the bottom of the table. I had elevated them to just above relegation when I realized that I didn't have any lower leagues activated. I was really worried about the outcome of the last game with only a one point lead.

Funny you bring this up. I was wondering what happens in this scenario as well. Anyone know?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah - I'm resolved that like 99.9% of the people on the Sega forum just want to pirate the game and that's why they're bitching.

I hope SI realize that.

I wish there was a way to tie forum registration over there to Steam-activation of the game, so you'd cut all the pirates right out.

I agree. Over all the years of playing games on all sorts of platforms, I've never had any DRM protection ruin my experience in any way. I've never run into these horrible problems people claim we'll experience.

My favorite argument is "this will force people to piracy". If it wasn't about stealing the game, wouldn't they buy the Steam copy and then pirate the non protected version to do as they please? Of course not, because this has nothing to do with user experience and everything to do with getting games for free.

I don't think everyone there is looking to pirate the game. I think DRM has becomae a "cool" thing to rage against "the man" about. But the fact remains that this shit will have no effect on anyone anywhere and the only thing it does is stop a few freeloaders from stealing someone else's hardwork.

[CAsterling]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Funny you bring this up. I was wondering what happens in this scenario as well. Anyone know?

If it still works thre same way it always did, you get fired at the end of the season. doesn't matter if you have been there 10 years or 10 days, because there is no active league for you to manage the club in, the game automatically fires you from the club and you become unemployed.

At least that is the way it used to work the times it happened to me in previous versions.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Funny you bring this up. I was wondering what happens in this scenario as well. Anyone know?

Just to confirm - If you are relegated outside of 'active' leagues then you're automatically sacked from the club in question. This is simply to prevent you being 'stuck' with a club which is playing next to no matches in a season.

(also you managing them would prevent the game 'emulating' the club in the league they'd drop to - thus their players wouldn't get any games at all - further messing up the simulation)

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I love steam, I simply dont understand people who dont...

Hate it, hate it, hate it.

1) Regardless of how often it happens, there are instances where, if my internet connection is down, I lose access to my games. Offline mode or not, it's been known to happen. Maybe not often, but even once is utterly unacceptable, especially for a primarily single player game.

2) I don't particularly like having to run two applications to run one. Other digital distributions have it right - the only time I should ever have to run their app is when I'm downloading/installing.

[I. J. Reilly]

Can someone explain how this works for me, I've never used Steam.

For example, if I'm in the middle of a game and my connection drops for a minute or two, which it does on occasion, what will happen? Will it freeze? Or is it just a case of the game needing to ping Steam when I start up to make sure it's an authorized version I'm playing?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

Can someone explain how this works for me, I've never used Steam.

For example, if I'm in the middle of a game and my connection drops for a minute or two, which it does on occasion, what will happen? Will it freeze? Or is it just a case of the game needing to ping Steam when I start up to make sure it's an authorized version I'm playing?

You only have to connect the very first time you download it (or activate a hard copy). After that, you can play in offline mode and never have to connect again (outside of patch downloads).

[Blade6119]

And to actually answer his question, nothing will happen if your connection drops, it will just go on like nothing has happened at all

[flounder]

Is there some setting you have to activate to be able to play offline? Back when I was playing Shogun, I lost internet access for a time and wasn't able to play it until I got back online.

P.S. Having dealt with other DRM mechanisms, I'm definitely pro-Steam.

[sovereignstar v2]

Been awhile since I last checked, but you used to have to be online to actually check the option to play offline. Meaning that you would be fucked if you lost your connection randomly. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong...

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Been awhile since I last checked, but you used to have to be online to actually check the option to play offline. Meaning that you would be fucked if you lost your connection randomly. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong...

I have the last three FMs (one being the last WWSM) from Steam and yes you do have to connected to go offline. The way around that is I always have Steam in offline mode and only go online when I need to.

Even if your internet is down and Steam is not loaded it will start up without internet if it was in offline mode when you last used it. At least I'm 99% sure it will Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Been awhile since I last checked, but you used to have to be online to actually check the option to play offline. Meaning that you would be fucked if you lost your connection randomly. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong...

That is not correct. If you start up Steam and you have no connectivity, it automatically switches to offline mode. My parents don't have internet and I play Steam games without any issues. Just pops up a message that informs you that it's switching to offline mode since there's no connection.

[samifan24]

Are you guys buying the Steam version or the boxed version? Steam seems easier but I prefer having the physical disc in case something happens and I've always bought the boxed version and just activated it through Steam. Should I just go Steam only? Are there any disadvantages to doing so?

[RainMaker]

Steam is pretty amazing.

Do they by chance have a service where you can put your saved games on a cloud of sorts? So I can switch computers and load up a previous save. I usually just use Dropbox for that but sometimes I like to play a few games at work and then come home and load it back up.

[flounder]

Steam does have that ability, but games have to be coded specifically to use it. I don't think FM is.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, it's not a big deal as Dropbox and other programs can fix it. Just thought it'd be a cool addition to keep saves on a cloud somewhere. I tend to upgrade computers a bunch so it'd be cool to pull down a save from FM10 or something and look through if I was bored.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by flounder

Steam does have that ability, but games have to be coded specifically to use it. I don't think FM is.

This is the first year they're using Steam exclusively. I wonder if it might be an option this year. Probably a good question for Marc.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Steam is pretty amazing.

Do they by chance have a service where you can put your saved games on a cloud of sorts? So I can switch computers and load up a previous save. I usually just use Dropbox for that but sometimes I like to play a few games at work and then come home and load it back up.

I use Dropbox for this - your FM game will fit easily. It's so easy and awesome.

[RainMaker]

I also just pre-ordered.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by samifan24

Are you guys buying the Steam version or the boxed version? Steam seems easier but I prefer having the physical disc in case something happens and I've always bought the boxed version and just activated it through Steam. Should I just go Steam only? Are there any disadvantages to doing so?

I don't think I've bought a boxed version of a PC game in...hell, I don't know. All the games I've bought for at least the last 4-5 years, maybe more, have been off Steam, GamersGate or Impulse. I don't miss having physical copies at all. And I've never "lost" a game with these services either. The same isn't true for boxed versions (losing the case or the book with the key printed on it = can't install the game again).

[Karim]

Do we have min/max specifications yet? My computer is old and have been toying with the idea of getting another one. Of course, the first consideration when buying another computer is will it run FM.

I only run England because I've never had a system capable of running the UK + major European powers which is what I'd ideally like to do - England, Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Holland, Portugal. I'm guessing i7 processor but how much RAM would I need for that? Would 8GB suffice?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Karim

Do we have min/max specifications yet? My computer is old and have been toying with the idea of getting another one. Of course, the first consideration when buying another computer is will it run FM.

I only run England because I've never had a system capable of running the UK + major European powers which is what I'd ideally like to do - England, Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Holland, Portugal. I'm guessing i7 processor but how much RAM would I need for that? Would 8GB suffice?

I can't imagine you couldn't run that on an i7 with 8GB. Seems like that would be simple. I'm running more than that on an i7/8gb.

[Alf]

Hi MV,

taking the opportunity to ask it here. I moved my main computer to linux 3 years ago and am stuck with wine/playonlinux for "Windows" games.

I haven't been able to run/install FM10 nor FM11 demos on those systems. I tried the way that people pointed me to at fm-tux.net and the likes, but still no luck. I also tried on Windows XP Virtual Machine, game installs but won't run.

Any remote chance FM will be support Linux OSes in the near future ? Even with degraded perf (read : no 3D)

Cheers, and thanks for that great game. The alma mater of all text sims.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Karim

Do we have min/max specifications yet? My computer is old and have been toying with the idea of getting another one. Of course, the first consideration when buying another computer is will it run FM.

I only run England because I've never had a system capable of running the UK + major European powers which is what I'd ideally like to do - England, Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Holland, Portugal. I'm guessing i7 processor but how much RAM would I need for that? Would 8GB suffice?

I ran that kind of game on a Core 2 duo with 2gb memory in FM10 and FM11 the speed was fine, with an i7 processor it should fly.

Not sure about the memory, does FM take advantage of more than 2gb?

[Miller Time]

Well I broke down and pre-ordered. I have bought pretty much every version of the CM/FM series but cannot remember being as excited as I am for this year's.

Any idea when the demo comes out? I love that you can add leagues to the demo and continue playing. Looked around the SI forums but didn't see anything.

[Icy]

I have preordered too as i do every year.

Hope that all the issues with the B/C teams in Spain have been fixed but... as nothing has been announced related to that, i doubt so.

It's been an unrealistic mess for the last 3 years or so since they were made human playable, killing the Spanish leagues for most of Spanish players like me, with all it's related bugs and issues.

I always play in the English, German or Italian leagues for that reason.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

My current game on 11 is England, Wales, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Spain, Italy, US, Mexico with all leagues loaded and it runs fine on a Core 2 Duo T6400 with 3GB RAM. One of the things I'm looking forward to, once I upgrade my laptop later in the Fall, is being able to really open up and run most of the available nations.

I read things like this, and it sounds like my issue isn't RAM (it's tough for me to run more than the English leagues), but using a single core processor.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Miller Time

Well I broke down and pre-ordered. I have bought pretty much every version of the CM/FM series but cannot remember being as excited as I am for this year's.

Any idea when the demo comes out? I love that you can add leagues to the demo and continue playing. Looked around the SI forums but didn't see anything.

I'm guessing Thursday, since that will be two weeks prior to release...

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Icy

I have preordered too as i do every year.

Hope that all the issues with the B/C teams in Spain have been fixed but... as nothing has been announced related to that, i doubt so.

It's been an unrealistic mess for the last 3 years or so since they were made human playable, killing the Spanish leagues for most of Spanish players like me, with all it's related bugs and issues.

I always play in the English, German or Italian leagues for that reason.

what sort is bugs? im playing in spain right now

[SackAttack]

Just noticed in my FM11 game that Wigan finished 16th in EPL last season and is in the Championship this season. Could that be a display bug related to tiebreakers or something?

[Icy]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

what sort is bugs? im playing in spain right now

In Spain, we have something different than in the rest of leagues, that is that the reserve teams (named B or C) play in the official league ladder system like any other independent team, instead of in their own reserves league like in Englad for example. Those B/C teams are used by the parent teams to develop young players helping them to gain experience on competitive leagues, but some steps under the main team.

For example:

FC Barcelona has a B team (Barcelona Atletico) and a C team.

FC Barcelona plays in 1st division
Barcelona B Atletico plays in the 2nd division
Barcelona C plays in the 2nd B division.

- All three teams are owned by the same board.
- All three teams share the scouts, training facilities etc and have their own budget but everything is paid by the same board.
- Each team has it's own coach and training staff, but they follow the directions given by the parent team coach and staff.
- B and C teams are formed by the young prospects that if good enough, will go up from C to B and/or to parent as they develop.

Here come now the problems in FM:

- In real life, it's FB Barcelona staff who signs or release players and who decides which ones are promoted or demoted between the three teams. If a signed player is not developed enough to play in the main team, he is demoted to the appropriate B or C team and if he is good enough, he can be called up from those B/C teams, but it's the FC Barcelona coach and staff who decide that, the B and C teams coaches and staff just work with the players they are assigned, but never sign new players or release them and for sure never sell them.

The problem with FM is that B and C teams "do not know" that they are just part of the main team with the function to develop young players. They want to win so they sign players on their own, sometimes old veterans that end ruining the prospects not getting playing time and expending the main team budget on veterans on high salaries. Sometimes they also release or sell young prospects on their own, etc.

At the end it ruins the realism when you see B/C teams full of veterans, young players underdeveloped and not getting playing time, and even worse, sometimes even sold or released. Some B/C teams also end ruining the parent team finances with those veteran players salaries or signings. As the seasons advance, it gets worse and worse, specially for small teams that can't develop their young players and that even go bankrupt because the B teams are expending the main teams budget on their own.

Imagine reserve teams in England signing their own players or releasing the players that you send to them to gain experience or playing time.

- Another bug is that even when B teams have their own coaches, the players don't know it, so if their coach do not play them or gives them a bad talk, they get angry at the parent team coach!

- Another big bug, B and C teams suffer takeovers in the game, that is not possible as they are part of the same organization than the parent team.

How should it be done?
Exactly like reserve teams in England, that are part of the main team and have no decision power at all. The only difference is that they are part of the official league system, can promote or demote etc with just one limitation, the B team can't ever promote to the same or superior division of the parent team, same with the C team.

It used to be that way until FM08 if i remember well, but then SI changed how B/C teams behave in FM so humans could chose to play as coaches of those teams, making them separate identities but somewhat linked to the main team, but as it was not done properly, it created the current mess where B/C teams are a weird mix of reserves/independent feeders/youth teams.

For more info visit the thread about Spanish league bugs at SI and read the posts #64, #68, #69, #72, #80:

Spanish league issues

More info about it:
Future Improvement on B/C/... Team System

Those bugs were already reported for FM11 but where not fixed or where made even worse, here you can see the thread about it:
Will-B-Team-issues-be-resolved-for-FM11?

[Icy]

Dola, please don't see that long and maybe too passionate thread as a big critic to FM.

FM is my favorite all time game that i have been playing since CM Italy in like 1986 and have never skipped a version. It's just that being from Spain and considering the Spanish league one of the strongest in the world, i hate to not to want to coach in Spain because those issues as soon as i find them again and again since FM08.

[Marc Vaughan]

Icy, I'll try and check those issues on FM2012 in the near future and if they still exist I'll mention them to the chaps on the PC version next time I'm over in London ...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Perhaps it's been announced and I missed it. New version coming for the iPhone anytime soon?

I'll admit. I check for the pre-load option on Steam every couple of days. It's sad.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Perhaps it's been announced and I missed it. New version coming for the iPhone anytime soon?

A new iPhone version will be out before christmas, but there isn't a public release date for it yet I'm afraid.

(trust me I'm really impatient for it to be made public, there are some neat new features in FMHi 2012 and I'm not allowed to talk about them yet ... grrrr ..... )

[sovereignstar v2]

From Miles:

#FM12 is officially gold & will release on Oct 21. Demo still planned for the weekend - if that changes, I'll tweet about it.

[fortheglory]

I just pre-ordered. It will be my first FM. I hope it's worth it. I have found myself getting bored with pc games of late. Maybe I'm just getting old and don't like games as much as I used to.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by fortheglory

Maybe I'm just getting old

At the rate of ~365 days per year. Correct.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by fortheglory

I just pre-ordered. It will be my first FM. I hope it's worth it. I have found myself getting bored with pc games of late. Maybe I'm just getting old and don't like games as much as I used to.

Please let me know how you get on - I'm always intrigued by feedback to people new to our games.

[fortheglory]

I will

[Grim.Reaper]

Probably a dumb question, but I will ask anyway. I see Steam is required for the game. However, I noticed Gamersgate is offering 2012 for pre-order. Does that mean you can download the main files from Gamersgate and then somehow just activate via Steam? Wasn't entirely sure how this will work. I prefer Gamersgate downloads since I can download the entire setup file and save offline in case I ever need to install again without having to download again.

Thanks!