Sons of Anarchy Discussion - Page 2

Scoobz0202 · 11-18-2009, 10:33 PM

I actually for some reason thought next week was the finale as well, weird. It was due to that that I thought a lot of the stuff was the easy way out and after realizing there was two more decided Opie's storyline was not finished yet.

DataKing · 11-19-2009, 10:23 AM

I don't see Opie's storyline getting finished this season, not with the events of the most recent episode. Zobel will be the target of the Sons' undivided attentions for the remainder of this season, methinks.

DeToxRox · 12-01-2009, 11:44 PM

Wow, one of the best season finales I have ever witnessed. Talk about setting the table for not just next season but the rest of the series. Very Shield like.

BishopMVP · 12-03-2009, 10:20 AM

Other than the fact they're going after the daughters/kids of their opponents, have theirs protected in a locked-down compound from at least 3 violent gangs (Mayans, Aryans, Irish) that are all currently in Charming, and yet send Gemma and the doctor and the baby out to get supplies with only one person to protect them, agreed.

DaddyTorgo · 12-03-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Other than the fact they're going after the daughters/kids of their opponents, have theirs protected in a locked-down compound from at least 3 violent gangs (Mayans, Aryans, Irish) that are all currently in Charming, and yet send Gemma and the doctor and the baby out to get supplies with only one person to protect them, agreed.

read the interview with the head writer/creater. he said that their thinking was that after the events of last episode the whole "lockdown" thing was meant to be lifted, but i guess they had to cut that scene (i think he said that...iirc, or else it just wasn't explained)

Glengoyne · 12-03-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Other than the fact they're going after the daughters/kids of their opponents, have theirs protected in a locked-down compound from at least 3 violent gangs (Mayans, Aryans, Irish) that are all currently in Charming, and yet send Gemma and the doctor and the baby out to get supplies with only one person to protect them, agreed.

I don't think they are targetting the kids of their enemies. Gemma and Zoebel's daughter had a more intimate bond than that. About the supply run. Yeah. When I heard that they'd sent out a prospect to watch them, I figured he was likely wearing a red shirt under his leathers. Which was sad, cause I kinda liked the comic relief associated with him. The kidnapping was quite a turn of events, and I'm still not sure why they went home...rather than the clubhouse. So there are some pretty big holes in how they got to Abel's kidnapping.

On the bright side. I'm sure I'll have forgotten this by next season.

BishopMVP · 12-03-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I don't think they are targeting the kids of their enemies. Gemma and Zoebel's daughter had a more intimate bond than that.

I don't think they were "targeting" in the sense they were trying to kill them but the club had already gone to Zoebel's cigar shop and held his daughter at gunpoint last episode and clearly shown they could get to Henry Rollins kids as necessary.

If DT's report of a missing scene is true it makes more sense, although I'm pretty sure they'd been sending the prospect to watch the old ladies and the old ladies had been making runs with minimal protection even during lockdown.

timmynausea · 12-03-2009, 11:25 AM

The show does have lots of little holes like that, but I've learned to forgive and forget for the most part.

Two things I thought may happen that didn't:

1. For several weeks after the fire, they never explained (unless I completely missed it) whether Darby or the guy with cut off fingers died in the fire. Obviously the latter made his reappearance. I thought maybe Darby would come back in the finale and help the SoA take out Zobelle.

2. I really thought the Irish guy would kill Tara. After the hospital incident and Gemma fully accepting her into the family, it seemed like her story arc was complete, and it was time for her to go. Once I was bracing for that, it made the Half Sack death feel a little underwhelming.

Still a good finale and a good show. I guess I'm still waiting for one of these shows to kill off main characters and reinvent itself every year as brazenly as Oz did.

MrBug708 · 12-04-2009, 01:47 AM

Has it even been picked up for season 3?

Incredible finish to this season though. Jax and Clay don't know about Gemma yet but Gemma doesn't know about Abel either

JonInMiddleGA · 12-04-2009, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Has it even been picked up for season 3?

Was picked up Wednesday morning, right after the show posted its highest rating ever, was the #1 show on cable for the night, and was the most watched show in America for M18-34 and M18-49

Sons of Anarchy Renewed for Third Season

DaddyTorgo · 12-04-2009, 09:26 AM

the picking-up was a formality by all accounts, fX just needed to get their finances lined up to pay for the bumps in pay the actors will get

DeToxRox · 12-04-2009, 10:55 AM

Yeah. Good to see Sutter signed a two year deal also, basically making it a two year pickup unless the ratings somehow just tanked.

DaddyTorgo · 09-06-2010, 07:27 PM

BUMPITY

New season starts tomorrow at 10pm on FX

DataKing · 09-07-2010, 05:22 PM

W00T!!!

MrBug708 · 09-07-2010, 05:31 PM

Pumped!

DaddyTorgo · 09-07-2010, 11:09 PM

HOLY SHIT!!

Now that's a season premiere!!!

I guess we presume that was the Irishman's second bit of retaliation hmm?

Fucking crazy!!!

Scoobz0202 · 09-07-2010, 11:16 PM

Oh baby...

DaddyTorgo · 09-07-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Oh baby...

Seriously!! I thought it was fairly pedestrian up until that last like...2 minutes. That totally blew shit up. Wow.

DataKing · 09-07-2010, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Seriously!! I thought it was fairly pedestrian up until that last like...2 minutes. That totally blew shit up. Wow.

Same here...pretty ho hum until the end then...dayummmm!

MrBug708 · 09-08-2010, 12:46 AM

It could have been Zobel, he got away and it seemed pretty amateurish.

I'm guessing the Irishman made it back to Ireland?

MrBug708 · 09-08-2010, 12:54 AM

Dola

Last season had Gemma's rape at the end of the first episode so I kinda expected something amazing

DaddyTorgo · 09-08-2010, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

It could have been Zobel, he got away and it seemed pretty amateurish.

I'm guessing the Irishman made it back to Ireland?

Nah - it looked to me like the Irishman was still there in the U.S. from the snippet we got of him. Couldn't say for sure though.

Coulda been Zobel I suppose.

Scoobz0202 · 09-08-2010, 01:06 AM

I felt Jax's girl, Tara, had a very strong episode. Hopefully she is this good all season long.

MrBug708 · 09-08-2010, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Nah - it looked to me like the Irishman was still there in the U.S. from the snippet we got of him. Couldn't say for sure though.

Coulda been Zobel I suppose.

When they scanned over the manhole cover on the ground, it said Belfast, which led me to think they made it to Ireland.

DaddyTorgo · 09-08-2010, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

When they scanned over the manhole cover on the ground, it said Belfast, which led me to think they made it to Ireland.

Oh wow. I wasn't paying that much attention in that scene - probably was puttering around on the interwebs.

Good catch. Ireland it is for the Irishman.

Which leads me to agree with you that the retaliation was Zobel.

panerd · 09-10-2010, 11:14 PM

Were we supposed to make out who the shooter was (Irish or Aryan) when Jacks beat the shit out of him or was that just to show how he has become a monster?

Great episode. Loved the end, liked the Ireland angle especially if that means the bikers may end up there for a needed change of scenery, and even think the police chief's brother might be a decent thorn in the side of the gang. The funeral was silly though... a bunch of ex-marines would respect that a special forces guy got killed as a biker gang's lackey? OK.

MrBug708 · 09-11-2010, 12:14 AM

I think you vastly underestimate the importance of brotherhood

thesloppy · 09-11-2010, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

a bunch of ex-marines would respect that a special forces guy got killed as a biker gang's lackey? OK.

Motrocycle gangs and the armed forces have a connection that goes back a long ways. Lots of the bigger clubs were started by dudes coming back from wars, feeling disenfranchised and out of place, missing the feeling of a 'troop', and perhaps looking for a little more action/violence than 'normal' life. The Hells Angels were possibly named after a military unit, the Bandidos were founded by a marine and uses the marines colors, and the Mongols were founded by hispanic Vietnam vets.

MrBug708 · 10-06-2010, 01:32 AM

Show has been money so far, let's hope that DISH doesnt kill it off

BishopMVP · 10-08-2010, 10:44 AM

SoA picked up for a 4th season.

Interesting commentary from Sutter on his blog - talking about the slow development this season he mentions having a 7 year plan for the show, and that events this season are integral in it. That being said, I do wish they toned down the Irish accents some - I find myself rewinding more than once an episode.

DeToxRox · 10-08-2010, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

SoA picked up for a 4th season.

Interesting commentary from Sutter on his blog - talking about the slow development this season he mentions having a 7 year plan for the show, and that events this season are integral in it. That being said, I do wish they toned down the Irish accents some - I find myself rewinding more than once an episode.

Yeah I saw that. Sutter is really arching this in a Shield esque manner. We're going to get closure with Zebel in a later season, much like with Antwan Mitchell, and we'll also get the closure between Jax/Clay like we did Vic/Shane in the final season.

Add in Ope as the sympathetic Lem figure and we have some comparisons going on.

I am eager to see how this year plays out. I sense Tera gets the murder rap since they were clear in the dialogue not to name her when Jax says he just wants his mom and the club protected.

MrBug708 · 12-01-2010, 09:55 AM

That was amazing. Great ending with Opie especially

Glengoyne · 12-02-2010, 12:34 AM

I missed the first half of the episode when they moved the time slot. Had to love the end, and Opie had to be the one. I'm not sure what to think about the sheriff now, not really a way to recover for him. I'm going to have to see the beginning.

DaddyTorgo · 12-02-2010, 02:10 AM

staying out of this thread until i get home next tuesday and get a chance to watch it.

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2010, 11:12 AM

Eh - I wasn't as much a fan of the episode. Seemed like taking the easy way out by having the whole setup of O'Fallon and handing him over to the ATF being a club-wide thing instead of Jax's thing. Although I think the whole Jax/Clay thing will start to boil over harder next season for sure, based on the stuff at the very end.

Intense though.

DeToxRox · 05-11-2011, 09:49 PM

Awesome

Quote:

Exclusive: Sons Of Anarchy Recruits Pulp Film Badass Danny Trejo

Oh, this is a marriage made in a dark, gritty little corner of heaven, folks.

TVLine has learned exclusively that FXs Sons Of Anarchy has booked film vet Danny Trejo ; whose myriad credits include, to name but a few, Machete, From Dusk Till Dawn and The Devils Rejects ; for a multi-episode Season 4 arc.

Trejo will play Romero ;Romeo; Parada, a charismatic and (duh) dangerous former commando for the Mexican military who becomes a new associate of the SONS.

BishopMVP · 05-12-2011, 12:54 AM

FuckYeahSoA

StrangeWay · 05-12-2011, 02:28 PM

I love this show! I like that they use so many of the actors from Deadwood in it and it just kicks ass every week.

DeToxRox · 07-06-2011, 03:13 PM

The former "Baywatch" star will have a guest-starring turn on the upcoming season of the hit biker series "Sons of Anarchy," a representative for the actor confirms to TheWrap. The Hoff's role? He'll be playing Dondo, a former XXX actor who's segued into producing skin flicks.

Hasselhoff, who vacated his judge's chair on "America's Got Talent" early last year, has been keeping busy of late with a reprisal of his role as Dr. William "Snapper" Foster on "The Young and the Restless."

There's also the star-studded, sure-to-be-epic horror film "Piranha 3DD," which is slated for release on November 23 and will see Hasselhoff share the screen with such talents as Gary Busey, Christopher Lloyd and Katrina Bowden.

Which is to say nothing of his appearing in the occasional iced-treat promotional video.

The bad news? An FX spokesperson told TheWrap that, for the time being, Hasselhoff's guest-starring turn is just a one-episode deal. Fingers crossed, people...

News of Hasselhoff's "Sons of Anarchy" stint was first reported by TV Guide.

StrangeWay · 07-14-2011, 12:12 PM

Saw a preview last night, show returns in September. I cannot wait!

Carman Bulldog · 08-26-2011, 09:20 PM

Finally getting caught up with this and now waiting for season 3 to hit DVD this week.

I haven't read any of the posts above, but generally speaking, how does Season 3 compare to 1 and 2?

DeToxRox · 08-26-2011, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Finally getting caught up with this and now waiting for season 3 to hit DVD this week.

I haven't read any of the posts above, but generally speaking, how does Season 3 compare to 1 and 2?

Weakest of the 3. Still was good but Sutter just got way too ambitious.

Recoil · 09-06-2011, 07:52 PM

Hour and a half episode tonight to start S4. Can't wait.

Logan · 09-07-2011, 09:10 AM

So I ended up catching up on Seasons 1 & 2 through Netflix earlier this summer (flew through it in about 2 weeks) and since the S3 DVDs weren't on sale until fairly recently, caught those episodes as FX reaired them late Wednesday nights. Finished S3 last week just in time to watch S4 with the rest of you.

Off to a great start last night.

Logan · 09-07-2011, 11:51 AM

I can't believe it took me reading Detox's fucking Facebook post to realize why that one agent looked so familiar: Ronnie!

BYU 14 · 09-07-2011, 12:08 PM

Managed to squeeze quite a few interesting storylines into the first episode, looking forward to a strong season, especially how things work out for Jax when the time comes.

MrBug708 · 10-12-2011, 12:37 AM

That might be in my top five favorite episodes in terms of jaw dropping storyline.

MrBug708 · 10-18-2011, 11:46 PM

Terrible

DeToxRox · 10-19-2011, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Terrible

Almost positive he didn't die. You can distinctly hear a limb break.

DaddyTorgo · 10-25-2011, 11:56 PM

No love for

Spoiler

11-19-2009, 10:23 AM	#52
DataKing Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Chicago	I don't see Opie's storyline getting finished this season, not with the events of the most recent episode. Zobel will be the target of the Sons' undivided attentions for the remainder of this season, methinks. __________________ Current Games Diablo III (BattleTag: DataKing#1685) Allegiances: Chicago Bears - Detroit Red Wings - Kansas Jayhawks Awards: 2011 Golden Scribe - Other Sports Category (The Straight(away) and Narrow - A Forza Motorsport 3 Dynasty)

12-04-2009, 09:26 AM	#61
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	the picking-up was a formality by all accounts, fX just needed to get their finances lined up to pay for the bumps in pay the actors will get __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

09-07-2010, 05:22 PM	#64
DataKing Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Chicago	W00T!!! __________________ Current Games Diablo III (BattleTag: DataKing#1685) Allegiances: Chicago Bears - Detroit Red Wings - Kansas Jayhawks Awards: 2011 Golden Scribe - Other Sports Category (The Straight(away) and Narrow - A Forza Motorsport 3 Dynasty)

08-26-2011, 09:20 PM	#91
Carman Bulldog College Benchwarmer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada	Finally getting caught up with this and now waiting for season 3 to hit DVD this week. I haven't read any of the posts above, but generally speaking, how does Season 3 compare to 1 and 2? Last edited by Carman Bulldog : 08-26-2011 at 09:20 PM.

10-25-2011, 11:56 PM	#100
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	No love for Spoiler Piney's death? I was really hoping he'd outsmart Clay and fucking finish him...although I knew for storyline purposes that'd make no sense. __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

12-01-2009, 11:44 PM	#53
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Wow, one of the best season finales I have ever witnessed. Talk about setting the table for not just next season but the rest of the series. Very Shield like.

12-03-2009, 10:20 AM	#54
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	Other than the fact they're going after the daughters/kids of their opponents, have theirs protected in a locked-down compound from at least 3 violent gangs (Mayans, Aryans, Irish) that are all currently in Charming, and yet send Gemma and the doctor and the baby out to get supplies with only one person to protect them, agreed.

12-03-2009, 11:25 AM	#58
timmynausea College Starter Join Date: Dec 2002	The show does have lots of little holes like that, but I've learned to forgive and forget for the most part. Two things I thought may happen that didn't: 1. For several weeks after the fire, they never explained (unless I completely missed it) whether Darby or the guy with cut off fingers died in the fire. Obviously the latter made his reappearance. I thought maybe Darby would come back in the finale and help the SoA take out Zobelle. 2. I really thought the Irish guy would kill Tara. After the hospital incident and Gemma fully accepting her into the family, it seemed like her story arc was complete, and it was time for her to go. Once I was bracing for that, it made the Half Sack death feel a little underwhelming. Still a good finale and a good show. I guess I'm still waiting for one of these shows to kill off main characters and reinvent itself every year as brazenly as Oz did.

12-04-2009, 01:47 AM	#59
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Has it even been picked up for season 3? Incredible finish to this season though. Jax and Clay don't know about Gemma yet but Gemma doesn't know about Abel either

12-04-2009, 10:55 AM	#62
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Yeah. Good to see Sutter signed a two year deal also, basically making it a two year pickup unless the ratings somehow just tanked.

09-06-2010, 07:27 PM	#63
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	BUMPITY New season starts tomorrow at 10pm on FX

09-07-2010, 05:31 PM	#65
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Pumped!

09-07-2010, 11:09 PM	#66
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	HOLY SHIT!! Now that's a season premiere!!! I guess we presume that was the Irishman's second bit of retaliation hmm? Fucking crazy!!!

09-07-2010, 11:16 PM	#67
Scoobz0202 Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dayton, Ohio	Oh baby...

09-08-2010, 12:46 AM	#70
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	It could have been Zobel, he got away and it seemed pretty amateurish. I'm guessing the Irishman made it back to Ireland?

09-08-2010, 12:54 AM	#71
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Dola Last season had Gemma's rape at the end of the first episode so I kinda expected something amazing

09-08-2010, 01:06 AM	#73
Scoobz0202 Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dayton, Ohio	I felt Jax's girl, Tara, had a very strong episode. Hopefully she is this good all season long.

09-10-2010, 11:14 PM	#76
panerd Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: St. Louis	Were we supposed to make out who the shooter was (Irish or Aryan) when Jacks beat the shit out of him or was that just to show how he has become a monster? Great episode. Loved the end, liked the Ireland angle especially if that means the bikers may end up there for a needed change of scenery, and even think the police chief's brother might be a decent thorn in the side of the gang. The funeral was silly though... a bunch of ex-marines would respect that a special forces guy got killed as a biker gang's lackey? OK.

09-11-2010, 12:14 AM	#77
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	I think you vastly underestimate the importance of brotherhood

10-06-2010, 01:32 AM	#79
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Show has been money so far, let's hope that DISH doesnt kill it off

10-08-2010, 10:44 AM	#80
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	SoA picked up for a 4th season. Interesting commentary from Sutter on his blog - talking about the slow development this season he mentions having a 7 year plan for the show, and that events this season are integral in it. That being said, I do wish they toned down the Irish accents some - I find myself rewinding more than once an episode.

12-01-2010, 09:55 AM	#82
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	That was amazing. Great ending with Opie especially

12-02-2010, 12:34 AM	#83
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	I missed the first half of the episode when they moved the time slot. Had to love the end, and Opie had to be the one. I'm not sure what to think about the sheriff now, not really a way to recover for him. I'm going to have to see the beginning.

12-02-2010, 02:10 AM	#84
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	staying out of this thread until i get home next tuesday and get a chance to watch it.

12-08-2010, 11:12 AM	#85
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	Eh - I wasn't as much a fan of the episode. Seemed like taking the easy way out by having the whole setup of O'Fallon and handing him over to the ATF being a club-wide thing instead of Jax's thing. Although I think the whole Jax/Clay thing will start to boil over harder next season for sure, based on the stuff at the very end. Intense though.

05-12-2011, 12:54 AM	#87
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	FuckYeahSoA

05-12-2011, 02:28 PM	#88
StrangeWay n00b Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: 7th ring of hell	I love this show! I like that they use so many of the actors from Deadwood in it and it just kicks ass every week.

07-06-2011, 03:13 PM	#89
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	The former "Baywatch" star will have a guest-starring turn on the upcoming season of the hit biker series "Sons of Anarchy," a representative for the actor confirms to TheWrap. The Hoff's role? He'll be playing Dondo, a former XXX actor who's segued into producing skin flicks. Hasselhoff, who vacated his judge's chair on "America's Got Talent" early last year, has been keeping busy of late with a reprisal of his role as Dr. William "Snapper" Foster on "The Young and the Restless." There's also the star-studded, sure-to-be-epic horror film "Piranha 3DD," which is slated for release on November 23 and will see Hasselhoff share the screen with such talents as Gary Busey, Christopher Lloyd and Katrina Bowden. Which is to say nothing of his appearing in the occasional iced-treat promotional video. The bad news? An FX spokesperson told TheWrap that, for the time being, Hasselhoff's guest-starring turn is just a one-episode deal. Fingers crossed, people... News of Hasselhoff's "Sons of Anarchy" stint was first reported by TV Guide.

07-14-2011, 12:12 PM	#90
StrangeWay n00b Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: 7th ring of hell	Saw a preview last night, show returns in September. I cannot wait!

09-06-2011, 07:52 PM	#93
Recoil High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GA	Hour and a half episode tonight to start S4. Can't wait.

09-07-2011, 09:10 AM	#94
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	So I ended up catching up on Seasons 1 & 2 through Netflix earlier this summer (flew through it in about 2 weeks) and since the S3 DVDs weren't on sale until fairly recently, caught those episodes as FX reaired them late Wednesday nights. Finished S3 last week just in time to watch S4 with the rest of you. Off to a great start last night.

09-07-2011, 11:51 AM	#95
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	I can't believe it took me reading Detox's fucking Facebook post to realize why that one agent looked so familiar: Ronnie!

09-07-2011, 12:08 PM	#96
BYU 14 Coordinator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The scorched Desert	Managed to squeeze quite a few interesting storylines into the first episode, looking forward to a strong season, especially how things work out for Jax when the time comes.

10-12-2011, 12:37 AM	#97
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	That might be in my top five favorite episodes in terms of jaw dropping storyline.

10-18-2011, 11:46 PM	#98
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Terrible