Bullying

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

If you do this, the 1st question will be "Did you contact the Principal?" There is a process that needs to be followed. You jump straight to the top and you become that "crazy" parent. And what you say wont be taken as seriously.

Then you've got a super that isn't fit for the job, not under these circumstances.

Remember, there's already been a call to the principal (or in this case vice-principal who seems to be where the authority for this kind of thing has been delegated). That obviously didn't produce much success.

[Ben E Lou]

Well, and beyond that, Jon, a super may *say* something like that to the parent in order to preserve the appearance of a chain of command and all. But behind the scenes, he's very likely to light a fire under his subordinate's patootie about it. At the very least he'll put in a call to ask wtf is going on.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Shit does tend to flow downhill, this isn't a bad plan at all afaic. I've also found that mentioning plans that involve notifying the media can work wonders to remove all sorts of obstacles.

Yep. Lawyers and Reporters will get their panties in a bunch. Quick.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Ok, I've been in education a long time, and one of my best friends is our AP at our school. This is what you do, call the police tonight, report it. Be calm, but tell them YOUR kid feels UNSAFE at the school. Then tomorrow morning, you don't let your son ride the bus. YOU take your son to school, and tell them you want to meet with the principal immediately, as your son feels UNSAFE at the school, on the bus, and at the bus stop (these are all well within the school's jurisdiction). Your son's school probably has an SRO, and he needs to be there. Tell them numerous times, you and your son feel UNSAFE in the school environment. Don't bring up a lawyer, or anything like that, unless they don't agree to do anything immediately. Obviously, you can't be there when they deal with this little treasure, but if I were you, I wouldn't leave your son there tomorrow either. This let's them know you feel that he is, indeed in danger (which is well warranted). Tell them you want to be notified when you can bring your child back to a SAFE school enviornment.

This is really great advice cougarfreak. It reminds me of the cockpit. If I use the phraseology that I am uncomfortable with something that the other guy is doing or is about to do, it's certain to stop or not happen. It's a CYA issue. That word, in that environment, is certain to get results.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

This is really great advice cougarfreak. It reminds me of the cockpit. If I use the phraseology that I am uncomfortable with something that the other guy is doing or is about to do, it's certain to stop or not happen. It's a CYA issue. That word, in that environment, is certain to get results.

Exactly. And if he keeps his kid home, the school loses money. Schools lose funding based on average daily attendance. That will get some attention, if the administration is competent.

[tyketime]

UPDATE#3 - So my wife and I decided to drive him to school this morning to avoid him seeing the bully as well as us going straight back in to talk with the Vice Principal. As we are sitting in car waiting for school to start, my wife decides to call the Mom one of my son's friends. My wife and his mother are friends. She asked whether her son had mentioned anything to her about our son being bullied. She said no. So we asked her to pretend she knew nothing if he decided to bring it up in the next day or two.

We walk into the Main Office and say we wish to speak to the VP. As we are waiting, we hear over the loudspeaker the name of our son's friend and will he please report to the school office. What a shitty coincidence. The kid does come in and sit down. We don't really acknowledge each other, so not sure he thought anymore about it.

The VP calls us back to his office and begins to tell us he is in the middle of the investigation and that he only has 2 minutes for us because one of the possible witnesses is waiting in the office. He then tells us that he spoke to our son yesterday, and to date, others have corroborated his story. The story he's spinning to the potential witnesses is that two girls saw a small kid being bullied on the bus, they didn't know who the victim was, but they did know your name. So what did they see/hear? I tell him we appreciate that, but what we didn't know when we spoke on the phone yesterday is that this Bully threatened to murder my son. He said he knew that. My son had relayed the additional threat when they talked yesterday. So I asked him can he guarantee my child's safety. He then proceeded to get upset about how he has three other investigations, he had to run boxes back and forth to the police for another issue. So he was still in the middle of my son's investigation and let him do his job. Either we trust him or we don't.

Well truth is, I never even heard this man's name until yesterday, so while I trust that you are following your procedures, I trust no one more importantly than my son's safety. The VP was visibly upset and his voice was raising.

My wife then mentioned we had called another parent to try and corroborate the story for ourself. (We don't think our son is lying - certainly not about something as serious as this. But we wanted to see if her son had mentioned anything). The VP became indignant, pointing at my wife and now almost yelling that she shouldn't have done that. We are now "impeding his investigation". If the word gets out, meaning this parent mentions it to her kid, or another parent, the likelihood that the Bully will know it was my son that reported him is now greater. I could not believe he was taking this tone with us. Neither one of us ever raised our voice, but made it very clear that why wouldn't we want to confirm for ourselves? He again told us to let him do his job. Once they have multiple witnesses, they will bring the hammer down on this kid. And he reiterated that at this point, my son's story is checking out completely accurate.

We walked out a side door, so to not run into my son's friend, and then walked out of the school. I think we were both in utter and complete shock that he handled us this way. I can appreciate that there are multiple things going on at the same time. But to us, there is nothing more important than my son's safety. Sure we "blindsided" him by showing up without an appointment. Oh well... again, nothing is more important than my son's safety.

So here's the question I really need to know the answer to: When does a matter change from a "school issue" to a "criminal/legal issue"? I know that kids say awful things all the time. And 99.999% of the time, nothing actually happens. But are we willing to gamble with our son's safety? Absolutely not. We have the name of a lawyer that we may call later to ask him that same question. As another "extreme example", if a kid makes any comment whatsoever about making a bomb to blow up the school, I'm fairly certain the police are immediately notified. I mean does "zero tolerance" really mean ZERO tolerance?

We really are reasonable, and are not looking to over-react. But in today's world, is there such a thing anymore? The one thing that would be absolutely devastating would be for us to just sit back, let the school follow it's own procedures (and as was posted above - it is very difficult to "prove" many of these instances), and God forbid something happen to our son.

We've decided to give the VP today to proceed with "his job". Of course, a lot of this angst on both sides could have been avoided had he picked up the phone yesterday and given me a 2-minute update. I don't care whether it was 8 o'clock last night... as with all things, communication truly is the key.

Ultimately, the crux of the issue is what I asked earlier - when does an incident switch from a school issue to a legal issue?

Thanks for your support and well wishes. It is unbelievable to us that a mere two weeks into high school, and we are front and center on this matter.

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Is this only happening on the bus (it seems like the only place your child is running into the bully is on the bus/getting off the bus?

Yes - they do not cross paths during the school day itself - only on the bus.

As for the bully being kicked off the bus - that's an interesting question. But unfortunately, he lives one street over, and the bus stop is just three or four houses down from the Bully's house...

[Barkeep49]

It switches from a school issue to a legal issue when the justice/legal system gets involved. As others said yesterday I wouldn't hesitate to call the police. That makes it a legal issue. The legal outcome might not be any more satisfactory than the school outcome, after all criminal statues have bars that need to be cleared, but protecting your kid is really important.

[cougarfreak]

Sounds like the VP needs some people skills. But it sounds like he is doing what he can to make sure the bully gets what is coming to him. The school should has to make it a legal issue if your state has a bullying law. Does his school have a school resource officer? And you're right, a two minute phone call could have alleviated a lot of stress on your part, let him know that in an email today.

[sterlingice]

I dunno- I had a couple of kids threaten to kill me when I was younger and one was even half-serious, I think. But he was a stupid kid and maybe he wasn't smart enough to realize that following through on that would pretty much end his life as he knows it.

I'm going to be the asshole on the other side of this, I guess. Sounds like the Vice Principal is trying to do what he can. Similarly, he's even shown that he's trying to be discrete and not show the bully that it was your kid, but that is complicated.

And, no, he cannot guarantee your kid's safety any more than you can. In fact, less so since you are the parent and he is a principal who has considerations for hundreds of other kids, too. And since you've now accused him of not being able to do that and, yeah, you are now making it tough for your son to be anonymous in this. This sounds like hindering more than helping.

I, for one, would cringe at the thought of going to the superintendent and going over the principal's head like SD and JimGA had suggested. I work in an environment where the customer likes to take every complaint they hear and run it three levels up and, you know what- it means that when "emergencies" happen five times a day, there really are no emergencies. If the VP had been sitting on his hands, then you'd have a case. But I fail to see how he's not trying to help you out. If nothing comes of it in a few days, then, yes, you have a case- but as first instinct?

I know that particularly nowadays, people can't be too careful. I know I'm not a parent so the "you just don't understand" crowd can chime in. But they're trying to help out and I suspect it will be resolved. Getting in the way of that makes it less likely and not more likely to happen.

SI

[Alan T]

I agree that it sounds like the VP is actively trying to work this through and not dropping the ball based on what you have posted here.

I also agree that if you feel your kid is in danger, drive him to school to help protect him if that is needed.

One question that I have though, if this other kid lives only one street away, has this never been an issue around the neighborhood outside of school? I would imagine just from playing outside, they would have had some interaction at some point. I would be worry in parallel with whatever transpires from a school punishment to what might happen next just out and around the neighborhood. I haven't noticed any mention of this (unless I missed it) in your posts thus far though so not sure if there is some reason this also isn't a concern.

[RainMaker]

I still contend that once it went from some bullying to "lets kill this kid", it becomes a police issue. If the VP has an issue with that, you can simply bring up your bomb or school shooting scenario. There is zero tolerance when it comes to that stuff and threats are taken seriously, so I see no reason why a threat in a different manner isn't taken seriously. If he comes across lightly, I would ask him if that is the same way they handle those other incidents since they also include murderous threats.

The kid should receive the same punishment he would if he threatened to shoot up a school or blow it up.

[SteveMax58]

A couple of thoughts on this. And as background, I have 2 kids, 7 & 5 yrs old. So not high school age yet but old enough to where they are seeing milder forms of this situation as well. EDIT: not personally being threatened, but kids doing things like namecalling to each other & one gets upset.

First off...you don't owe anybody an explanation for calling the police & telling them your child's situation, as you know it, and seeing what they can do or suggest doing.

Second...it sounds like your VP is an overburdened ass, or does not handle stress very well (or has competency issues). While he might need to be brief with you, he should be reassuring rather than combative with you. He likely does have quite a bit of conflicting concerns to balance in all of this, but should be a much more effective communicator in order to be in his position.

Third...I'm a bit with SI on the severity of the threat. I'm not saying you shouldn't do what you feel you need to do for your son's safety & based on his level of fear of this kid (as I said in my first thought, you don't owe anybody an explanation)...but I am saying that these punks apparently feel unchallenged enough to say such things to your son without objection. The fact that they actually did not physically assault your son (unless I missed something) suggests to me that they are lacking in common sense but not likely to be a real threat to do serious harm. Now, that doesn't mean you should (or that I would) sit by & let it play itself out on its own but I do think I would drive him to/from school until there is resolution to this (hopefully today or tomorrow).

[JonInMiddleGA]

When does a matter change from a "school issue" to a "criminal/legal issue"?

The minute the little p.o.s. crossed the line into criminal behavior. And, at least in most cases, the use of the "m" word put him over that line.

Please don't get me wrong here, you're the one on the ground & you're the one looking all the various players in the eye so you're in an exponentially better position to make a call on how to handle things.

That said however, the question that goes through my mind at this point is whether I'd trust a 2nd/3rd tier school administrator, especially one that is bitching about having multiple investigations simultaneously, with my child's safety. Based on the information you've provided here, my answer to that one would be a resounding no.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Second...it sounds like your VP is an overburdened ass, or does not handle stress very well (or has competency issues). While he might need to be brief with you, he should be reassuring rather than combative with you. He likely does have quite a bit of conflicting concerns to balance in all of this, but should be a much more effective communicator in order to be in his position.

I think judging the character or competency of a school administrator, in this situation, is counterproductive and unfair. The concept of "walk a mile in my shoes" comes to mind here. There are literally hundreds of things going on in the morning at any given school and most folks think that their order of business should be #1 on the list.

The VP took a few minutes to meet, unscheduled, and confirmed that he was on top of it (and, in fact, it appears his next point of business was to interview another child about it). Not trying to be critical, but these folks have really tough jobs and I am sure they spend a lot of sleepless nights trying to balance things out.

All that said, tyke is doing all of the right things in making sure that his child is safe and that the issue is being addressed. It is unfortunate that someone cannot just snap their finger and make the problem go away, but I am sure there are a lot of aspects to address.

[sterlingice]

(Oh, yeah, and it does sound like the VP is an overworked ass- that goes without saying from your story. It's just that it sounds like he's actually trying to handle this well from what you said)

SI

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I still contend that once it went from some bullying to "lets kill this kid", it becomes a police issue. If the VP has an issue with that, you can simply bring up your bomb or school shooting scenario. There is zero tolerance when it comes to that stuff and threats are taken seriously, so I see no reason why a threat in a different manner isn't taken seriously. If he comes across lightly, I would ask him if that is the same way they handle those other incidents since they also include murderous threats.

The kid should receive the same punishment he would if he threatened to shoot up a school or blow it up.

He is in the process of doing that. He can't automatically assume everything that comes across his desk is true. I would imagine it will be taken care of today.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

The VP took a few minutes to meet, unscheduled, and confirmed that he was on top of it (and, in fact, it appears his next point of business was to interview another child about it). Not trying to be critical, but these folks have really tough jobs and I am sure they spend a lot of sleepless nights trying to balance things out.

I agree with this, and everything else you mentioned...but it doesn't change the fact that he sounds like an overburdened ass.

I might be twice as bad given his job...but that isn't my job & that doesn't change whether somebody behaves (or sounds like they behaved) like an ass to me.

[Lathum]

How old is this bully?

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by Lathum

How old is this bully?

He's a sophomore so I suppose that would be15-16.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The minute the little p.o.s. crossed the line into criminal behavior. And, at least in most cases, the use of the "m" word put him over that line.

Please don't get me wrong here, you're the one on the ground & you're the one looking all the various players in the eye so you're in an exponentially better position to make a call on how to handle things.

That said however, the question that goes through my mind at this point is whether I'd trust a 2nd/3rd tier school administrator, especially one that is bitching about having multiple investigations simultaneously, with my child's safety. Based on the information you've provided here, my answer to that one would be a resounding no.

+1000

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I dunno- I had a couple of kids threaten to kill me when I was younger and one was even half-serious, I think. But he was a stupid kid and maybe he wasn't smart enough to realize that following through on that would pretty much end his life as he knows it.

I'm going to be the asshole on the other side of this, I guess. Sounds like the Vice Principal is trying to do what he can. Similarly, he's even shown that he's trying to be discrete and not show the bully that it was your kid, but that is complicated.

And, no, he cannot guarantee your kid's safety any more than you can. In fact, less so since you are the parent and he is a principal who has considerations for hundreds of other kids, too. And since you've now accused him of not being able to do that and, yeah, you are now making it tough for your son to be anonymous in this. This sounds like hindering more than helping.

I, for one, would cringe at the thought of going to the superintendent and going over the principal's head like SD and JimGA had suggested. I work in an environment where the customer likes to take every complaint they hear and run it three levels up and, you know what- it means that when "emergencies" happen five times a day, there really are no emergencies. If the VP had been sitting on his hands, then you'd have a case. But I fail to see how he's not trying to help you out. If nothing comes of it in a few days, then, yes, you have a case- but as first instinct?

I know that particularly nowadays, people can't be too careful. I know I'm not a parent so the "you just don't understand" crowd can chime in. But they're trying to help out and I suspect it will be resolved. Getting in the way of that makes it less likely and not more likely to happen.

SI

+1

[JediKooter]

I'm with JimGA and tyke on this. I am a bit biased though. It's a lot different when a member of your family was indeed almost murdered by another student. So, if that guy that got mad at Tyketime and his wife for bothering him, too bad.

[Lathum]

Has anyone brought up talking to the kids parents? Do they even know what is going on?

[RainMaker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=442ExhW__zE

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Has anyone brought up talking to the kids parents? Do they even know what is going on?

Sounds like they know where the kid lives. I would definitely pay his parents a visit.

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Has anyone brought up talking to the kids parents? Do they even know what is going on?

My understanding is that the Vice Principal will immediately set up a Parent Conference after speaking with their child.

Yeah - we do know where he lives. We've never spoken to his family. For that matter, we've never spoken to the kid either. But very well aware of his misbehavior from incidents he had with the son of another neighbor who was a good friend of ours.

Personally - I'm not interested in speaking to his parents. #1 - it will completely blow the whole concept of trying to protect my son from being the tattle-tale. #2 - I personally think it has gone well beyond the let's just sit down calmly and talk about your son threatening my son's life.

I dunno, I hate to say the times have changed... but the times have changed. If I had been the bully when I was a kid, and a parent called my parents, my Dad would have re-introduced me to his belt... there's something to be said for that threat/fear. Today, it doesn't seem to happen the same way.

[dawgfan]

The other issue with talking with the parents is that there's a fair chance the parents aren't going to be very helpful, and that it will in fact exacerbate the situation.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by tyketime

I dunno, I hate to say the times have changed... but the times have changed. If I had been the bully when I was a kid, and a parent called my parents, my Dad would have re-introduced me to his belt... there's something to be said for that threat/fear. Today, it doesn't seem to happen the same way.

Yeah, unfortunately I have to agree with you on this Tyke, as much as it saddens me. I think we've seen over the past few decades that parents are less receptive to this type of feedback & that it usually just creates bad blood.

I think we've also seen the end of "it takes a village" where if you see somebody else s kid being an ass to another kid (whether it be your kid or not) that you can go out & bring him home to his parents and tell them what he/she did and that they would be appreciative of this. Or even a simple "quit being a jerk to that kid or I'll tell your parents"...and having that be acceptable. We seem to live in a country (perhaps world?) where the reaction is more like "don't you say a f'n thing to my kid buddy" and subsequently labeled a bully or a jerk yourself.

I think this type of dynamic in parenting these days is creating the environment where we all have to walk on eggshells less we be the one imposing our morality on others. There always seems to be 2 sides to this as well...and depending on how you frame it...can be negatively shown for one side or the other when the reality (imho) is that we needed to correct these behaviors long ago when they were younger. Yesterday's bully is today's victim & vise versa...and when it really goes too far, for too long...you get an environment which creates a Columbine type of situation.

So yeah...its no wonder the world is going to shit and nobody cares about anybody else any more. We can't even trust other adults (whether legitimately or not) over what our kids say to us.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Has anyone brought up talking to the kids parents? Do they even know what is going on?

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Sounds like they know where the kid lives. I would definitely pay his parents a visit.

Originally Posted by tyketime

My understanding is that the Vice Principal will immediately set up a Parent Conference after speaking with their child.

Yeah - we do know where he lives. We've never spoken to his family. For that matter, we've never spoken to the kid either. But very well aware of his misbehavior from incidents he had with the son of another neighbor who was a good friend of ours.

Personally - I'm not interested in speaking to his parents. #1 - it will completely blow the whole concept of trying to protect my son from being the tattle-tale. #2 - I personally think it has gone well beyond the let's just sit down calmly and talk about your son threatening my son's life.

I dunno, I hate to say the times have changed... but the times have changed. If I had been the bully when I was a kid, and a parent called my parents, my Dad would have re-introduced me to his belt... there's something to be said for that threat/fear. Today, it doesn't seem to happen the same way.

I thought this earlier, but my (maybe stereotypical) opinion was the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. The chances of anything good coming out of a meeting with parents whose child repeatedly acts this way....slim to none, and slim just left town.

Probably for a different thread, but agree 100% with the last paragraph. I had a healthy fear of my dad. And to this day, I catch myself doing something and thinking how he'd react (I'm 35, he's 75).

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Probably for a different thread, but agree 100% with the last paragraph. I had a healthy fear of my dad. And to this day, I catch myself doing something and thinking how he'd react (I'm 35, he's 75).

Ditto. My dad, not a big man by any means, was a military man and maybe his standards were higher than most, in terms of behaviour from his boys, I don't know, but I was scared shitless of the consequences of anything boneheaded I might do. I can count the number of spankings I got on one hand, each of them deserved, but each also probably prevented a handful of really stupid decisions.

Something tells me either this kid doesn't "fear" the consequences (if there are even any consequences) at home or else his situation is the exact opposite...he's beaten up regardless of what he does...good or bad. Obviously that's not based on anything other than a stereotype portrayed by a lot of troubled teenagers who exhibit bullying tendencies...so I could be way off.

tyke, I've got two little girls (the oldest just started school) and I'm scared to death of this kind of shit. I actually work for the school district my kid is attending so I'm pretty sure I'd be able to jump the queue with just about everybody in the chain of command if something like this were to happen but I still don't know if that makes me feel any less anxious about patting her on the head and sending her off to school everyday.

Anyway, I really hope the system works...keeps your son safe...puts you and your wife at ease about sending your son to safe place...and gets help and/or disciplines the little bastard who is the subject of this two page thread.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I thought this earlier, but my (maybe stereotypical) opinion was the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. The chances of anything good coming out of a meeting with parents whose child repeatedly acts this way....slim to none, and slim just left town.

Probably for a different thread, but agree 100% with the last paragraph. I had a healthy fear of my dad. And to this day, I catch myself doing something and thinking how he'd react (I'm 35, he's 75).

I understand what you're saying. I'm just of the mindset of trying everything I can that is available to me, up to and including litigation.

As for my dad, I'm 40 and I still can't bring myself to cuss in front of him AND he's a retired sailor. Heck, it took me until my late 20s before I would drink anything alcoholic in front of him.

[Ben E Lou]

My dad was also military. He never to my memory spanked me. Mama did the spanking for minor offenses. (Maybe he gave me a pop on the hand when I was a toddler and was about to get into something and Mama wasn't around, but never a real spanking.) The stated warning was that for big stuff, we'd get a whuppin' from him. More than a few times, he came in the room and SWATTED that belt of his against the wall, and whatever foolishness my brother and I were up to stopped, stopped immediately, and did not reoccur for weeks. Just the fear alone of a whoopin' from Daddy kept us in line to the point where we never needed one.

[tyketime]

An update...

So I got a call back from the Vice Principal this afternoon. The investigation is complete and he has both good news and bad news. The investigation covered talking with both boys directly involved in the incident, and many others (including friends of each kid).

First and foremost - the good news is that he feels very strongly that there is no real physical threat against my son. But the whole situation played out very differently than what he anticipated. The bad news is that apparently my son had a fair amount of culpability in what happened. In interviewing the kids, including some of my son's friends, several mentioned that my son has a tendency to mouth off and annoy people. They had been bickering back and forth on the bus, and this kid threatened him out of frustration.

Needless to say that while I am mainly relieved, I am also horrified at the behavior of my son. We will be having a very frank and direct conversation with him this evening. In my eyes, he's just as guilty in the situation, and there will be consequences. I fully believe that in addition to physical bullies, there are verbal ones. And while he didn't take it to the same extreme as the other kid, he's just as much to blame.

It's a surprising conclusion for us. We were quick to believe and quick to judge. I'm relieved, yet now very upset that my son happened to "omit" certain key facts when he discussed this with us the past couple of nights. In this particular case, it would seem that my son was just as much a bully (not an easy thing to write, much less hear or think - but it is what it is). And we still strongly believe there is zero tolerance for that type behavior. No matter whether it's your child or my child.

It's a lesson for him. It's a lesson for us. I am glad we didn't take it any further. As is always the case, there are two sides to every story. Kudos to the school for a quick & thorough investigation (poor communication aside...). It's always easier to look back than when in the midst of it. I feel clean on the actions we took. I will always have my son's back, but tonight I may also have his backside.

Understandably, I am very upset. And while I think this discussion on bullying is enlightening, I don't think it is in anyone's best interest for me to say anymore about this specific issue. I thought about not providing any additional update, but didn't think that was the right thing to do for this community I belong to. Let this serve as an example of just how difficult parenting can be. I'll be happy to discuss bullying in general, the differences in parenting today vs the past, rules, policies, etc. But please forgive me if I don't reply to any of your specific questions/comments/replies. There's no disrespect intended...

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by tyketime

Yes - they do not cross paths during the school day itself - only on the bus.

As for the bully being kicked off the bus - that's an interesting question. But unfortunately, he lives one street over, and the bus stop is just three or four houses down from the Bully's house...

If the bully is creating an unsafe environment for your child, the school is within thier rights to keep the bully from riding the bus system (this of course all depends on the state and district but where my mom taught they've done it, it's the bully's parents' responsibility to get the kid to school at that point due to the bully losing bus priveliages due to bad behavior)

others can probably comment more on it but just thought I'd throw it out there

[tarcone]

CALL THE SUPERINTENDENT! Oh wait. Maybe not.

And this is why you follow the chain of command. Like I stated earlier, if you go straight to the Supt. you become the "crazy" parent.

Parents that jump too soon are the ones that get labeled. That was what I was trying to say earlier.

Let this be a lesson to all you "Call the Superintendent right away" people. It doesnt help. There is a process to follow. Follow and you would be amazed at what will happen. Dont jump over peoples heads. Call the teacher 1st, if not resolved go to the next person, then the next. You dont go straight to the top.

Its too bad your son was involved and Im sorry he is being bullied. I hope the other kid gets what justice he deserves. And I hope you teach your child who to get involved with and who not to be involved with.

[SteveMax58]

Glad to hear your son is (presumably) safe in all this. And there is definitely 2 sides to every story to be sure. Conflict is rarely one sided (though not to diminish the cases where it actually is, just one sided and aggressive).

I think you do have to go with your gut sometimes and it seems your gut told you to go to the school first (rather than call the police). Another life lesson and we all have to learn them ourselves.

Good on you for being proactive & rational about all of this. I think that lesson alone is a good one for everybody to learn from your experience.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

CALL THE SUPERINTENDENT! Oh wait. Maybe not. And this is why you follow the chain of command.

Sorry, but that just bullshit .... unless you have confidence in the chain of command.

Let this be a lesson to all you "Call the Superintendent right away" people. It doesnt help.

Again, bullshit. It's never failed me once, not dealing with the education industry at least. If it fails then you didn't bring the right hammer for that nail.

[tarcone]

But this was resolved in the manner it should have been. The VP investigated, and found out what the story was. Now Im sure he will take the proper steps.

I bet the Supt. cringes when he hears that you are on the line. Sure you may get a response, but why do you have to call the Supt. 1st? And if you lack that much confidence in your school admin., why do you send your child there?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by tarcone

But this was resolved in the manner it should have been. The VP investigated, and found out what the story was. Now Im sure he will take the proper steps.

I bet the Supt. cringes when he hears that you are on the line. Sure you may get a response, but why do you have to call the Supt. 1st? And if you lack that much confidence in your school admin., why do you send your child there?

Well, in fairness, Jon doesn't.

He hates the public schools and sends his son to private school. (note: not saying there is anything wrong with that. We'd probably quibble on specifics of public schools since I'm biased with my wife is in the public schools here, but I respect that some people prefer private school)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I bet the Supt. cringes when he hears that you are on the line.

Do it right the first time or two & the need to call them at all drops dramatically. Amazing how rarely issues of that degree pop up once it's clear they won't be tolerated. Was that way when I was a student, it's still that way now that I'm a parent.

And if you lack that much confidence in your school admin., why do you send your child there?

I didn't hire a single middle manager at my son's school but then again, how many people did? Of the current group, one is a vapid twit, one seems very solid, one seems to be so-so in limited dealings with them and the 4th is so new that the jury has to remain out at this point (replaced an extremely solid pro who retired at the end of last year). The bad luck comes with the time that your child is under the jurisdiction of the twit (less than a year to go thank goodness), happily we'll be moving on to the much more solid stand-up guy next year.

And that's the scenario after making a well-researched private school choice. Imagine what it's like for more typical situations where there's little to no choice available. I grew up in that kind of situation so actually I don't have to imagine it, I lived it. And I've watched friends & relatives deal with it both in the gap between being student & parent as well as parallel to my own parenting timeline.

Let me clarify something here too, just so anyone who catches this & is curious. Being strictly private school parents, I'm referring to the functional equivalent to a superintendent in our case.

edit to add: I threw in that clarification before I saw wade moore's post, nice to know that someone is paying attention however

[frnk55]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Has anyone brought up talking to the kids parents? Do they even know what is going on?

Am I the only one who thought of that Brady Bunch ep?
Glad things are going in the right direction Tyke.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

edit to add: I threw in that clarification before I saw wade moore's post, nice to know that someone is paying attention however

Heh. Everyone has their hot-spots. For me, it's education. I pay attention to any threads where education is discussed because of the many discussions I have with my wife who has been in the schools for about 7 years and is currently working on a doctorate degree. So, lots of opportunity to discuss these things so I'm always interested in hearing educated opinions on the issue and I pay attention closely.

[tarcone]

Jon, its a different world in the public sector of the education world. Parents will call the Supt. at the drop of hat if they dont think their child deserved that B on their 10 point Biology quiz. They refuse to follow the set procedures. Go straight over the heads of the people they need to talk too.
Im not minimizing what Tykes child is going through. I hate bullying. But this is how parents lose any power with the admin. Its like the little boy who calls "Wolf". Had Tyke gone straight to the Supt. and it was found out that his son was, in fact, part of the problem. Guess what happens the next time.? Tyke has lost credibililty. So when the bully is threatening his son again, there will be less urgency. Right or wrong, thats the way it is.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by tyketime

Let this serve as an example of just how difficult parenting can be.

There are a lot of different styles and ideas represented here but it's something everyone can agree on

SI

[Raiders Army]

I don't have much to add. If this were 20 years ago, I'd tell my kid to deal with this himself; he's going to have to at some point in his life.

I'm not one to blame D&D, violent videogames, etc...but, I believe the internet, facebook, twitter, youtube, etc. has elevated the violence and boldness of kids. You can't mess around with this.

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I'm not one to blame D&D, violent videogames, etc...but, I believe the internet, facebook, twitter, youtube, etc. has elevated the violence and boldness of kids. You can't mess around with this.

There's just no escaping it anymore. Your child isn't safe when he walks into the door of his own home.

[Flasch186]

shortstory re: how parents dont believe that their kid could be the "one". When I was in LA I babysat sometimes for acting kids and this one night they were allowed to have a sleepover since that day they'd all taken some standardized test. In the condo complex they were in the kids, boys and girls, could come over around 5, eat pizza, play videogames, and party while I would be there until about 10 when the parents of those not staying the night (and all girls) would come get their kids.

So that happens and around 1130 or midnight all the boys go to bed in one room, 2 sharing a bed, one on the futon and 2 on the floor. Im sleeping on the otherside of the condo in the 'rents bed. So I set the alarm clock for 3 to check on the cretins.

I go into the BR and hear giggling and banter and a girl's voice so I flip on the light. This girl



but much younger, say 13, is in the bed with the 2 kids. I flip my shit and toss her and make her walk back to her parents condo. I tell the boys to go back to sleep and think about what theyre going to say to her parents in the morning to apologize.

Morning comes and we march across the condo complex to the kid's front door and ring it. When the mom comes to the door she's been primed. She says that Evan told her everything and that the kids often go on the rooftop and talk... I try to get a word in edgewise but she'd have none of it. I left it with, "Well boys, you're apologizing anyways because we know what happened." and they did...

Now this girl is her parents gravy train and it might be different but kids omit stuff, they tell their side, and spin... It is what it is. My 22 month old son, I pray, wont become a bully. He's big as shit.

[Flasch186]

DOLA, where's Flere?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

My 22 month old son, I pray, wont become a bully. He's big as shit.

+1

My kid is 95th percentile in height and weight and is a total tank. I hope I can teach him to stick up for the kids who are being bullied and be friends with everyone.