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12-12-2007, 01:17 PM
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#51 | |||||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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Cowher is a horrid coach, and the Dolphins would not benefit from him joining them at all. I have been a Dolphins, Steelers, and Lions fan almost my entire life. Cowher did nothing in Pittsburgh to warrant such high praise. He is like Torre with the Yankees, he had good players and a good owner, yet he only won 1 super bowl and only went to 2 of them. Miami needs to give Cameron another year or 2 to see what he can do as a coach in the NFL. One year is not enough time, especially with the crap he has had to deal with this season. At least they got a 2nd rounder for Chris Chambers. 
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12-12-2007, 01:19 PM
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#52 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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True, but he is an absolute stud at DE. At 34, he is still one of the top 5 DE's in the NFL. A team like the Colts, Chargers, Packers, and even the Steelers could benefit from a player like Taylor. I doubt the Dolphins could get a 1st round pick for him, but a 2nd rounder is feasible.
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12-12-2007, 01:22 PM
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#53 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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None of the above. Cowher is way overrated, Shanahan is also overrated, Gruden is a jerk. I suppose Gruden would be ok if we can look past his personality. Realistically, Miami should stick with Cameron for another year or 2 at least to see what he can do. One season does not make a coaching career, especially with the garbage he has to deal with this season.
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12-12-2007, 01:23 PM
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#54 | |
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General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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How many coaches currently in the NFL are better than Cowher? All of them? Half of them? More than one? |
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12-12-2007, 01:27 PM
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#55 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
I don't understand all the Angst about Cameron. He's only been here a year, and the team was awful before him. They've got one star on offense (r. Brown) and one or two players on defense who are respectable (and are going to be around when the team is competitive again). This team needs a full rebuild, and swapping coaches every year isnt going to help. The dolphins got way more than they should have trading Chambers. He's had the lowest catch rate in the nfl for the last 4 years. He's like a WR with 0 avoid drops, 0 adjust to the ball, and 100 route running. Tons of targets, mediocre stats. |
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12-12-2007, 01:30 PM
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#56 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
not to rip on you, but you're out of your mind. The Raiders got a 4th for Randy Moss. Who is younger, and plays a harder-to-fill position. given you can counter with "well randy had character issues and concerns." but then i counter with "but he is younger and plays a harder-to-fill with equivelent talent" position. the fins would have to be satisfied with a 4th for Taylor. MAYBE a third depending on who they draft with. You're dreaming if you think they get a 2nd. |
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12-12-2007, 01:32 PM
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#57 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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HAHAHA...well said |
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12-12-2007, 01:34 PM
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#58 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hometown of Canada
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I like Cowher. Great motivator.
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12-12-2007, 01:34 PM
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#59 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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I am not sure how many are better, probably not very many. That is more of a reflection on how bad NFL coaching is than on how good Cowher is. Only 2 super bowls with one win in 15 years or something is not that great. Who cares if he won 10 games nearly every year? Super Bowls are what matters, and Cowher did not deliver. With that being said, there probably are not many coaches in the NFL whom are better than him. It is a sad state of affairs: Tony Dungy - Colts Bill Belichek - Patriots Mike Holmgren - Seahawks Jon Gruden - Buccaneers Andy Reid - Eagles Mike McCarthy - Packers Jeff Fisher - Titans Jack Del Rio - Jaguars A few others are decent but unproven (Lane Kiffin - Raiders, Ken Whisenhut - Cardinals, Mike Tomlin - Steelers).
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12-12-2007, 01:34 PM
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#60 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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WR is a harder to fill position than DE? Since when? The NFL obviously disagrees (based on cap numbers) |
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12-12-2007, 01:35 PM
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#61 | |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2001
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what better? better belichick dungy del rio fisher phillips? mccarthy holmgren push jauron tomlin crennel kubiak shannahannamontana edwards coughlin reid fox gruden payton childress marinara whisenhunt cowher better cameron mangina lewis bilick kiffin turner gibbs ghost of petrino smith nolan linehan
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"Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales |
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12-12-2007, 01:36 PM
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#62 |
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Resident Alien
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Look, I suffered through Cameron for years at IU. He needs to be fired NOW from the Dolphins. He is not head coach material.
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12-12-2007, 01:37 PM
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#63 | |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hometown of Canada
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Good luck getting one of these guys as your coach. If all you care about are Super Bowl wins, why are some of those guys even mentioned? And how are Kiffin, Whisenhut, and Tomlin even in the discussion?? You're bat-shit crazy. |
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12-12-2007, 01:37 PM
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#64 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
with an equivelent-caliber player. there are many more "Jason Taylor" -esque players in the league then there are "Randy Moss" -esque players |
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12-12-2007, 01:38 PM
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#65 | |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hometown of Canada
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I watch that sometimes. |
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12-12-2007, 01:41 PM
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#66 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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I agree. A typical NFL team carries as many as 8 Wide Receivers, but usually only 4, maybe 5 Defensive Ends on the roster.
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12-12-2007, 01:41 PM
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#67 | |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2006
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It sucks when disgruntled is a huge step forward doesn't it?  |
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12-12-2007, 01:43 PM
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#68 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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LOL - ghost of petrino
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12-12-2007, 01:43 PM
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#69 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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i disagree. of those WR's...only 3 will see a decent % of the snaps on MOST teams. the other 5 are practice team / kickoff team type guys. And of those 3, there's only one #1. Where with DE's you have teams that carry 2 pro-bowl caliber DE's, and teams like the Pats where they have 3-4 starting-caliber guys. |
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12-12-2007, 01:43 PM
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#70 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Thats because Randy Moss is a singular talent. It has nothing to do with wide receivers as a whole. And No, there aren't a lot of Jason Tayloresque players arount. Theres pretty much no one like him: as big as a DE, fast and agile enough to be a linebacker. Adalius Thomas is the closest thing, and hes making $8m a year. Defensive Ends make more money than Wide Receivers. That means they're more valuable. |
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12-12-2007, 01:45 PM
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#71 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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you just argued that randy moss was a singular talent and then basically said that jason taylor was too. correct? so normal "rules" should not necessarily apply to them. that being said...you think the LOLphins get more for Taylor at 34 years old then the Raiders got for Moss at 30? I'd take that bet anyday. Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 12-12-2007 at 01:46 PM. |
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12-12-2007, 01:46 PM
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#72 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Teams like the Pats also carry 4-5 starting quality WRs. Teams like the Broncos don't carry a single Starting Quality DE. A good DE makes more of a difference (and is worth more) than a good WR. Randy Moss is a game changing talent, like Reggie White. |
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12-12-2007, 01:46 PM
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#73 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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I may be crazy, but I ain't no bat-shit crazy  .Whisenhut has done pretty well with a pathetic, injury riddled Cardinals team. The same with Kiffin, although to a lesser degree. Tomlin has only gone 9-4 in his first season. Yes, the Steelers have talent, but teams don't just win with talent, it takes coaching too. If it didn't, Petrino would be preparing for the playoffs right now instead of jumping ship to Arkansas. As for the other coaches, I was not looking to get one of them as a coach, I was only listing the ones I feel are better than Cowher.
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12-12-2007, 01:49 PM
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#74 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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That I don't know. Randy is a once in a generation talent. Taylor is an extremely good player, but theres only a handful of teams that could use a 34 year old hybrid DE/OLB... the Steelers and Pats are the only teams I can think of. Nobody else has that same scheme and is close enough to a superbow that they'd trade for a 35 year old player. Everyone could use a 30 year old WR. If we were talking a 34 year old Dwight Freeney, I'd take that bet any day of the week. |
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12-12-2007, 01:51 PM
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#75 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Really? |
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12-12-2007, 01:52 PM
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#76 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2001
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57 year old ditka is the one I'd take
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"Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales |
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12-12-2007, 01:53 PM
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#77 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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The falcons aren't in the playoffs because the team has no defense, no quarterback, and an offensive line that is built to zone block and is being asked to man-block. Its got very little to do with coaching. The steelers won a superbowl 2 years ago, and went 8-8 last year without their starting QB. I think their record this year has very little to do with coaching, and everything to do with talent. If you want to say that Tomlin is doing a great job because the steelers are 9-4, then Norv Turner is doing a great job with the Chargers at 8-5. The teams have similar talent, and similar records. |
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12-12-2007, 01:54 PM
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#78 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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The Raiders have proven that they are just as stupid as Miami in regards to personnel moves. Raiders gave up Moss for a 4th round pick, Dolphins essentially let Wes Welker go for nothing. Both of those players are worth way more than the end cost to the Patriots. The same is true for Jason Taylor. He is a top talent at a usually thin position in the NFL. How many DE's in the NFL are better than him, even right now? Not many. Miami can draft a wide receiver in the first few rounds that could be a game-changer, but try doing that with a DE and it just doesn't happen? Who is the last star DE that didn't come in the first 2 rounds of the draft? Randy Moss is a game changing WR, just as Jason Taylor is at DE. Across the board, DE is a harder position to fill than WR.
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12-12-2007, 01:58 PM
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#79 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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poll posted
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12-12-2007, 01:59 PM
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#80 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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Not true. The Steelers were not expected to be quite as successful as they have been so far this year. The Chargers, on the other hand, went 14-2 last year and were expected to go to the super bowl this year. A Chargers team at 8-5 is a disappointment, while a Steelers team at 9-4 is somewhat of a surprise considering the coaching change and loss of a star LB (Porter), albeit he is on a decline.
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12-12-2007, 02:09 PM
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#81 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I don't think the Raiders did so badly in that. Moss said he'd only renegotiate for the Patriots, so they were looking at trading (what appeared to be) a bad receiver with an $11M cap hit. He obviously wasn't going to play for the Raiders, so without the trade to the Pats, chances are he would have been cut. |
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12-12-2007, 02:12 PM
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#82 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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The Steelers weren't expected to be good this year? By who? They were bad last year for the sole reason that Roethlisburger was hurt the whole year. Anyone who didn't expect them to win a couple more games is ridiculous. |
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12-12-2007, 02:20 PM
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#83 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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Quickest I could find: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/previe...ory?id=2984130 It seems that only 5 out of the 16 ESPN experts thought the Steelers would make the playoffs and all but 1 thought it'd be as the Wild Card.
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"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
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12-12-2007, 02:20 PM
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#84 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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Isiah is hands-down, the worst GM of any team, in any league, in history.:o
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12-12-2007, 02:23 PM
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#85 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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You do realize that almost all of the ESPN "experts" picked all of last years division winners to win their divisions this year, right? Last edited by Synovia : 12-12-2007 at 02:24 PM. |
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12-12-2007, 02:23 PM
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#86 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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Thank you for validating my argument. As I stated earlier, most people thought the Steelers were finished because: 1) Ben Roethlesberger was "overrated" (obviously not true) 2) A coaching change would doom the team (obviously not true) 3) Last year's 8-8 record was a sign of things to come (not true) With a rookie coach, the Steelers will better last year's record even if they lose their remaining 3 games (unlikely).
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12-12-2007, 02:33 PM
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#87 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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With a Rookie coach and a healthy quarterback. Kind of like the Jets last year. The difference between an good healthy starting QB and a fungible backup is 4 or 5 games a year. |
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12-12-2007, 02:55 PM
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#88 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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Very true.
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12-12-2007, 03:06 PM
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#89 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
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I think most, including the guys at Football Outsiders, had the Steelers as a borderline playoff team. Pro Football Prospectus had their 2007 Mean Projection at 9.1 wins, Baltimore at 9.0, and Cincinatti at 8.7 so they basically saw the division as a toss up. So I wouldn't say they were expected to be bad, but I wouldn't call that good either. Considering they were coming into the season with a rookie head coach, I can understand the pessimism. |
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12-12-2007, 03:17 PM
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#90 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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FO also doesn't account for Roethlisburger being healthy, and gave them a severe penalty in their predictions for a new coach. Last edited by Synovia : 12-12-2007 at 03:20 PM. |
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12-12-2007, 04:25 PM
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#91 |
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Pro Rookie
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Aww man, I saw that this thread had about 40 more posts since lunchtime, I came in expecting that the OP had finally snapped and murdered Wayne Huizenga or that Cam Cameron had resigned or something. Oh well.
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12-12-2007, 05:03 PM
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#92 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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LOL - Huizenga is attempting to murder the Dolphin franchise much like he did to Blockbuster Video. Trade Ricky Williams for a 7th round pick and a song!!!
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Last edited by RomaGoth : 12-12-2007 at 05:04 PM. |
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12-12-2007, 08:39 PM
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#93 | |||
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Oakland, CA
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Attempting? He already has.
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12-12-2007, 11:04 PM
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#94 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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What do I want to happen this offseason? I want someone to wake me up and tell me that the last 10 years were a nightmare and that Huizenga is stupid but he'd never be stupid enough to hire a sub-.500 college coach to run an NFL team and that Jimmy has just taken Randy Moss in the 1st round.
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Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
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12-13-2007, 01:21 AM
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#95 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle
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As a Pats fan, I heartily endorse Cam Cameron to remain as Dolphins coach for the next decade.
As for Taylor, one can argue in his favor all you want, but he is too old for any team to pay a high price in picks. Over the years I have noticed that youth as much as talent plays a big role in trade value. Nobody wants to shell out a high pick for a guy that will only contribute maybe for another year or two (but usually want a renegotiated contract well beyond his "sell by" date). |
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12-13-2007, 08:32 AM
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#96 | |
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College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Ok, you are making 0 sense. You say the point to measure them by is Superbowls. Yet Andy Reid has only been to 1 and lost. Mike McCarth has been to zero. Jeff Fisher has been to one and lost. Del Rio been to zero. Dungy has been to one. Homgren has been to 3 but has lost 2 of them. |
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12-13-2007, 09:13 AM
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#97 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Burke, VA
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Um, Jeff Fisher stinks. Seriously, what about his record and playoff history makes people think this guy is a decent coach?
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12-13-2007, 09:18 AM
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#98 |
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Resident Alien
Join Date: Jun 2001
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He came up a yard short in a Super Bowl?
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12-13-2007, 09:35 AM
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#99 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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Very good points. I would guess that Taylor has 2-3 years left, and probably 1 or 2 after that where he should have retired already. Either way, if I was close to a super bowl, (i.e. San Diego, Indianapolis, Green Bay), I would consider picking up a guy like Taylor because all you need him for is 2-3 more years. At that point, a guy like Favre will retire anyway (if not sooner) and your window has closed again to win a super bowl.
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12-13-2007, 09:48 AM
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#100 | |||
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Favored Bitch #2
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
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I see your point. Perhaps I should explain it differently. Most of the people whom love Bill Cowher are saying "oh wow, he got us a super bowl win". So what???? For as long as he coached in Pittsburgh, he only won 1 freaking super bowl and lost the other one he went to. Let me compare the other coaches again: Andy Reid = 1 super bowl (lost) - true, but he is arguably in one of the most difficult cities to coach a sports team in. He has, however, underachieved. Mike McCarthy = 0 super bowls - true, but he has only been the coach in Green Bay for 2 years (including this one). Considering that, he has done an excellent job so far, especially with little to no running game. Jeff Fisher = 1 super bowl (lost) - true, but he has done a decent job with a team that is not a major sports market for pro sports. Jack Del Rio = 0 super bowl - true, he has also done a decent job in a small market area, and he is still pretty young for a coach. Tony Dungy = 1 super bowl (won) - true, he is a good coach whom does not get the credit he deserves for turning Tampa Bay around. Gruden is a good coach, but Dungy is the reason that Tampa team won the super bowl. Mike Holmgren = 3 super bowls (1 win, 2 losses) - true, but how many current or recent coaches have been to 3 super bowls? Bill Belichek, and who else? So, yes you are correct in that I was making no sense. I will place less emphasis on super bowl wins over a shorter career, but more on a longer career and other factors, such as where the team is located, the market size, and the ownership. Bill Cowher underachieved in Pittsburgh. He had some awesome defenses and a decent offense most of the time he was there, yet he barely won 1 super bowl. I guarantee if he goes to Miami he will fail miserably and retire again. Of course, Miami right now is a giant cesspool as a pro franchise. So I digress...... 
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