Steve McNair has been shot and killed

[rowech]

Man...hopefully this will wake some of these players up.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

RIP "Air" McNair...what the heck is going on with players being targets lately. Maybe it's just me noticing this more.

What other players?

[ThunderingHERD]

Originally Posted by rowech

Man...hopefully this will wake some of these players up.

Wake them up to what? That they shouldn't have girlfriends because they might end up being murdered by them?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ThunderingHERD

Wake them up to what? That they shouldn't have girlfriends because they might end up being murdered by them?

That running around with damned near teenage waitresses from a bar when you're a grown man may be hazardous to more than your wallet.

[ThunderingHERD]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That running around with damned near teenage waitresses from a bar when you're a grown man may be hazardous to more than your wallet.

Ah... I take it that middle-aged comedians should learned an important lesson about getting married from Phil Hartman then, eh?

[Lorena]

Dammit, one of my favorite QBs in the past 15 years, the guy busted his ass off and fought through so many injuries. Man, just... sucks, I feel for his wife and kid. Even worse, his wife hadn't seen him in a couple of days and then she finds out he's dead? WTF.

RIP Air McNair

[JonInMiddleGA]

{removed since the original post was removed as well}

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sorry thesloppy, but I think connecting that to this is one of the more absurd reaches I've ever seen here.

I didn't mean any offense, I'll remove it.

[Julio Riddols]

Married men with high profile lives who are buying SUVs for 20 year old girls.. 20 year old girls leaving ex boyfriends of 4 years to date a rich ex NFL star.. the wife and ex boyfriend have to be suspects..

My take is that McNair made some really bad decisions getting involved with this girl and going to such lengths to impress her, and as can happen in such volatile situations, the result of it was him losing his life.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sorry thesloppy, but I think connecting that to this is one of the more absurd reaches I've ever seen here.

Better that they work on getting guys to keep it in their own pants.

hmmm?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Married men with high profile lives who are buying SUVs for 20 year old girls.. 20 year old girls leaving ex boyfriends of 4 years to date a rich ex NFL star.. the wife and ex boyfriend have to be suspects..

My take is that McNair made some really bad decisions getting involved with this girl and going to such lengths to impress her, and as can happen in such volatile situations, the result of it was him losing his life.

yep. and seemingly he isn't immune to being a bit of a horndog either

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

hmmm?

Well now I don't want the mystery to overshadow what was nuthin'. I had hlaf-a-rant about athletes and firearms that didn't belong in this thread, and then I removed it.

Respects to Steve McNair.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Was she a stripper?

[duckman]

RIP Steve.

[Young Drachma]

Now that we have more details, seems more cut and dry. But how sad, nonetheless.

[Karlifornia]

If you think rich and famous men having mistresses is a new trend, you have no sense of history. It's gone on forever, and I'd bet more than one married man on this very message board has had an extramarital affair.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying shit happens, whether you're a former NFL player, a former politician, a former IT guy, or a former marketing exec.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Reason #6,284 to stay the hell away from women.

[RainMaker]

The story truly sucks. Seems McNair did a lot for the community and was rather well-respected. The chick is nowhere near hot enough to match the level of crazy she exudes.

[MIJB#19]

sad news...

[Emiliano]

What a sad news.

RIP.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

What other players?

Well, sample size may be small, but...Sean Taylor, Darrent Williams, and Joey Porter(obviously not killed) come to mind offhand.

It's probably just the amount of media attention over time that makes it "seem" like more players to me, when in reality, its more attention to each situation.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by ThunderingHERD

Wake them up to what? That they shouldn't have girlfriends because they might end up being murdered by them?

That they might just think about making good decisions instead of stupid ones.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

My take is that McNair made some really bad decisions getting involved with this girl and going to such lengths to break it off with her, and as can happen in such volatile situations, the result of it was him losing his life.

I bolded my replacement for the word "impress"...this is pretty much what I was thinking.

Buying a car for some girl that he (presumably) is having an affair with? Then she kills him? If it wasn't made to look like a M/S, then he had to be ending it and that just wasn't good enough for her.

[ThunderingHERD]

Originally Posted by rowech

That they might just think about making good decisions instead of stupid ones.

Yes, dating is a bad decision because there's always the possibility that the woman might murder you.

If you have a problem with his behavior on a moral level, well, that's fine--but it has no bearing on his culpability here. This sort a thing is no more a foreseeable consequence of having a mistress than it is of having a wife--in fact, I'm pretty sure this degree of violence is more common in committed relationships and marriages--and you wouldn't assume that a man killed by his wife in a murder/suicide was at fault, would you?

[rowech]

Originally Posted by ThunderingHERD

Yes, dating is a bad decision because there's always the possibility that the woman might murder you.

If you have a problem with his behavior on a moral level, well, that's fine--but it has no bearing on his culpability here. This sort a thing is no more a foreseeable consequence of having a mistress than it is of having a wife--in fact, I'm pretty sure this degree of violence is more common in committed relationships and marriages--and you wouldn't assume that a man killed by his wife in a murder/suicide was at fault, would you?

He put himself in a bad position by making poor choices. Did he expect his death to be his consequence? Surely not. Nevertheless, it did. From what I've read she had just broken up with her boyfriend, she's 16 years his younger, he buys her a car, etc. Does stuff like this happen? Every day.

I have no doubt over the next week we're going to be getting much more information and I fully expect there to be some other details that will shed more light on this.

My hope is that players will see that a "good guy" like McNair had this happen to him over something trivial. This wasn't some guy with gang history or toting a gun in his pocket every minute. It was a guy cheating on his wife.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by rowech

This wasn't some guy with gang history or toting a gun in his pocket every minute. It was a guy cheating on his wife.

I know nothing of Stave McNair's character beyond what I saw on the field, but he did indeed have a history of toting a gun with him.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

If you think rich and famous men having mistresses is a new trend, you have no sense of history. It's gone on forever, and I'd bet more than one married man on this very message board has had an extramarital affair.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying shit happens, whether you're a former NFL player, a former politician, a former IT guy, or a former marketing exec.

Of course it happens. No question about it.

But there ARE risks with this behavior. Quite a few risks actually. Those risks go off the charts when the person you are having an affair with is a 20 year old. That doesn't mean Steve McNair deserved what he got. It does mean that he made poor decisions that helped cause his life to come to an end.

Nothing "moral" about it from my point of view. It's the same thing as "sampling" some cocaine. You may not get addicted at all. Maybe you get addicted and it just ruins your career. Or maybe, just maybe, you take some, go into cardiac arrest and move on into the next life. (we don't all think Len Bias was the only athlete who ever tried a bit of coke, now do we?)

McNair was one of my favorite NFL players. RIP Steve. RIP.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I know nothing of Stave McNair's character beyond what I saw on the field, but he did indeed have a history of toting a gun with him.

Then yet another bad choice.

And on another note, if this girl did kill him, I refuse to believe that he couldn't figure out she was a nutjob from the start.

[jeff061]

Don't bang 20 year olds. They shoot you dead.

Chock full of wisdom, this thread is.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by rowech

Then yet another bad choice.

And on another note, if this girl did kill him, I refuse to believe that he couldn't figure out she was a nutjob from the start.

Well again, I don't want to demean the dude, as I certainly don't know anything more than anybody else, but he was arrested for DUI twice, once with an illegal gun in the car (was not charged for the gun or one DUI, as the judge ruled he was unfairly stopped), was cheating on his wife and children with a 20 yr old waitress, who was also recently arrested for DUI (with McNair in the passenger seat again), and apparently unstable enough to kill someone and herself. Considering the evidence, I think people are giving McNair plenty of benefit by continuing to label him as 'one of the good guys' or someone who was naively and unknowingly involved in an affair with a less-than-stable lady. Dude may have been, and by all accounts was, incredibly "nice", but that doesn't necessarily mean he spent his day doing good deeds and making only wise decisions. In fact the evidence suggests he was quite adept at making shitty decisions, and not so much of a 'good guy', or a martyr for the cause of banging-crazy-young-stuff, as much as just a regular old human being, of the not-so-perfect variety.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Don't bang 20 year olds. They shoot you dead.

Chock full of wisdom, this thread is.

I think we have three distinct viewpoints here.

1) don't bang 20 year olds or have an affair on your wife, or you'll die.
2) your choices you make in your life have no impact on it.
3) Your choices DO make an impact in your life and if you make incorrect or questionable ones, you put yourself at risk.

I'm in the third group. McNair didn't deserve to die. And tons of guys have had affairs without getting killed. But. . . making questionable decisions can have that impact. To think otherwise is living in a dreamworld. Again, how many people die after taking their first hit of cocaine? It does happen, right?

[Young Drachma]

It's a good thing none of us are famous. I'd hate to see us parsing each other's choices after we're gone without knowing the situations.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I think people are giving McNair plenty of benefit by continuing to label him as 'one of the good guys'

And that's putting it mildly.

If (and that's still an if) this is what it appears to be at this point, he died from a terminal case of stupidity.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It's a good thing none of us are famous. I'd hate to see us parsing each other's choices after we're gone without knowing the situations.

AMEN! Let the poor man and his reputation rest in peace.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Well again, I don't want to demean the dude, as I certainly don't know anything more than anybody else, but he was arrested for DUI twice, once with an illegal gun in the car (was not charged for the gun or one DUI, as the judge ruled he was unfairly stopped), was cheating on his wife and children with a 20 yr old waitress, who was also recently arrested for DUI (with McNair in the passenger seat again), and apparently unstable enough to kill someone and herself. Considering the evidence, I think people are giving McNair plenty of benefit by continuing to label him as 'one of the good guys' or someone who was naively and unknowingly involved in an affair with a less-than-stable lady. Dude may have been, and by all accounts was, incredibly "nice", but that doesn't necessarily mean he spent his day doing good deeds and making only wise decisions. In fact the evidence suggests he was quite adept at making shitty decisions, and not so much of a 'good guy', or a martyr for the cause of banging-crazy-young-stuff, as much as just a regular old human being, of the not-so-perfect variety.

And that is exactly what you proceeded to do. Hey, it is a fear country. On a counter note McNair was certainly a good guy. He had a foundation set up that was very well respected and recieved.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And that's putting it mildly.

If (and that's still an if) this is what it appears to be at this point, he died from a terminal case of stupidity.

+1

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Galaril

AMEN! Let the poor man and his reputation rest in peace.

Which one? The manufactured one (he's a good guy) or the real one (he cheats on his wife)?

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I think we have three distinct viewpoints here.

1) don't bang 20 year olds or have an affair on your wife, or you'll die.
2) your choices you make in your life have no impact on it.
3) Your choices DO make an impact in your life and if you make incorrect or questionable ones, you put yourself at risk.

I'm in the third group. McNair didn't deserve to die. And tons of guys have had affairs without getting killed. But. . . making questionable decisions can have that impact. To think otherwise is living in a dreamworld. Again, how many people die after taking their first hit of cocaine? It does happen, right?

There's very little in life you can't make a case against as being risky to some degree. The problem was the girl, not McNair. This is simply a case of blame the victim mentality, which I bet some of the people blaming McNair have championed against in other topics.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Galaril

On a counter note McNair was certainly a good guy. He had a foundation set up that was very well respected and recieved.

Those things aren't in any way mutually inclusive, or even necessarily related, are they? Bernie Madoff had a foundation that was well respected.

That said, I'm sorry if I offended you. I really didn't mean to demean him, but I think it's just as ridiculous to canonize a guy for apparently getting shot in the head by his young mistress. The results are certainly unusually tragic, the details are not, they're common and ugly, and I think it's disingenuous to treat them as anything else.

Before someone asks if I would want myself/someone in my family treated the same way, no of course I wouldn't, but of course that assumes that Steve McNair and his family are currently reading my posts, which I think it's safe to say they are not. That question can also be flipped both ways, and my attitude comes from that other side of the coin, many people seem to be exhibiting more unquestioning grief and remorse for Steve McNair than they would for their own friends or family, and isn't that even more ridiculous?

[ISiddiqui]

RIP

But, yeah, he made a really dumb error in going with the 20 year old.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Those things aren't in any way mutually inclusive, or even necessarily related, are they? Bernie Madoff had a foundation that was well respected.

That said, I'm sorry if I offended you. I really didn't mean to demean him, but I think it's just as ridiculous to canonize a guy for apparently getting shot in the head by his young mistress. The results are certainly unusually tragic, the details are not, they're common and ugly, and I think it's disingenuous to treat them as anything else.

Before someone asks if I would want myself/someone in my family treated the same way, no of course I wouldn't, but of course that assumes that Steve McNair and his family are currently reading my posts, which I think it's safe to say they are not. That question can also be flipped both ways, and my attitude comes from that other side of the coin, many people seem to be exhibiting more unquestioning grief and remorse for Steve McNair than they would for their own friends or family, and isn't that even more ridiculous?

if you were doing the same thing you'd be treated the same way though, that okay?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

many people seem to be exhibiting more unquestioning grief and remorse for Steve McNair than they would for their own friends or family, and isn't that even more ridiculous?

And this surprises you? Amidst the attempts to canonize Michael Jackson?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

if you were doing the same thing you'd be treated the same way though, that okay?

Oh yeah, but I think everybody I know already assumes I'm going to die as a result of my poor decision making skills, so it won't be much of a surprise....more like a Mad Libs. Casey was found at {EX-GIRLFRIEND}'s house under a pile of {DRUG}s with a dirty {SEX TOY} nearby.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Casey was found at {EX-GIRLFRIEND}'s house under a pile of {DRUG}s with a dirty {SEX TOY} nearby.

Or perhaps under a pile of sex toys with a dirty ex-girlfriend nearby?

[thesloppy]

Or a pile of dirty ex-girlfriends....mmmmMMMMmmm

Huh? What were we talking about again?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Which one? The manufactured one (he's a good guy) or the real one (he cheats on his wife)?

Chubby, you lose all credibility as a Bills fan.

[thesloppy]

So, uhhhh...I really don't know what to say about this angle that PFT is still pushing.

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/conten...-mcnairs-death

"According to the same NashvillePost.com sources, a white woman in her early 20s, around 5-foot-4, approached McNair at the restaurant and accused him of slipping her a “roofie” a year ago.

The woman then told McNair, according to sources, that her boyfriend was going to kill him."

[Dutch]

I don't know any of the details, but I had a ton of appreciation for Steve McNair and am sorry to see him go like this. He was a joy to watch on the football field when he was in his prime.

RIP.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Chubby, you lose all credibility as a Bills fan.

A spade is a spade. Michael Jackson is still a child molester and McNair is still unfaithful to his wife. I'm all for celebrating the good things people who have passed have done but don't try and make them saints.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It's a good thing none of us are famous. I'd hate to see us parsing each other's choices after we're gone without knowing the situations.

I despise this sort of thinking. Let's all go 'PC' then, and not say anything about no one. Let's not discuss truth and reality, let's focus on fantasy and being touchy feely with one another.

We might as well just shut the Internet down, as well as any other form for free communication.