Tice gone?

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
The Vikings have abetter offense than both and their defense, while not as good as Baltimore or Dallas, can shut down good a good offense, like Kansas City, Green Bay...

Green Bay W 30-25 Looks like the D won this game for them.

Chicago W 24-13 It is Chicago!

Detroit W 23-13 It is Detriot!

San Francisco W 35-7 Probably the best the team played to this point.

Atlanta W 39-26 Another great defensive effort!

Denver W 28-20

New York Giants L 29-17 Just bad all together.

Green Bay L 30-27 Scoring 27 points should be a victory. Defense let them down.

San Diego L 42-28 Same as above.

Oakland L 28-18 Another bad game.

Detroit W 24-14 It is Detriot!

St. Louis L 48-17 A bad game in the second half. Offense put D in bad spots.

Seattle W 34-7 Great game, young LB's started coming together.

Chicago L 13-10 It is Chicago! The offense lost this game.

Kansas City W 45-20 Great offensive and defensive effort.

Arizona L 18-17 Both sides of the ball struggled, but the offense should have scored more and the defense shouldn't have given up 18 points to Arizona.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by The Afoci
Green Bay W 30-25 Looks like the D won this game for them.

Chicago W 24-13 It is Chicago!

Detroit W 23-13 It is Detriot!

San Francisco W 35-7 Probably the best the team played to this point.

Atlanta W 39-26 Another great defensive effort!

Denver W 28-20

New York Giants L 29-17 Just bad all together.

Green Bay L 30-27 Scoring 27 points should be a victory. Defense let them down.

San Diego L 42-28 Same as above.

Oakland L 28-18 Another bad game.

Detroit W 24-14 It is Detriot!

St. Louis L 48-17 A bad game in the second half. Offense put D in bad spots.

Seattle W 34-7 Great game, young LB's started coming together.

Chicago L 13-10 It is Chicago! The offense lost this game.

Kansas City W 45-20 Great offensive and defensive effort.

Arizona L 18-17 Both sides of the ball struggled, but the offense should have scored more and the defense shouldn't have given up 18 points to Arizona.

Concerning the first game against Green Bay, Minnesota built a 27-3 lead thanks to forcing 3 interceptions in the first half and holding Ahman Green to 53 yards rushing, 3.5 ypr ave. and 2 TD's. I'd say the defense did a lot to win that game.

Concerning the Atlanta game, they only gave up 20 points when it really counted, if you deduct a garbage time TD pass from Doug Johnson.

The Vikes defense forced 3 turn overs and collected 2 safeties.

[The Afoci]

They may have built a 27-3 lead, thanks to the offense scoring 27 points, but the defense still managed to give up 22 more points that game. The defense was okay this year, but started to come together. I do believe that next year with one or two additions, the defense will be very good and if the offense could add a second reciever that can get open and run the proper routes, the team will be a 12-4 type team.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by The Afoci
They may have built a 27-3 lead, thanks to the offense scoring 27 points, but the defense still managed to give up 22 more points that game. The defense was okay this year, but started to come together. I do believe that next year with one or two additions, the defense will be very good and if the offense could add a second reciever that can get open and run the proper routes, the team will be a 12-4 type team.

It is the NFL, you can't expect to shut down an offense like Green Bays the entire game.

[The Afoci]

They gave up 21 points per game. That is with 4 games against Detriot and Chicago, two teams not known for offense. That along with an offense that struggled at times to score shows me a team that isn't a playoff team. They play great at home, but crappy on the road. To me that is the sign of a young, inexperienced team that is a year or two from being good.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by The Afoci
They gave up 21 points per game. That is with 4 games against Detriot and Chicago, two teams not known for offense. That along with an offense that struggled at times to score shows me a team that isn't a playoff team. They play great at home, but crappy on the road. To me that is the sign of a young, inexperienced team that is a year or two from being good.

Obviously it was a playoff type team. They started 6-0, no other team has started 6-0 and not made the playoffs in 25 years. They were one play away from winning their division.

This team could have won this division with competent leadership.

This team should have won that division. The blame falls where it always should when stuff like this happens. Poor coaching.

[Wasabiak]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
Obviously it was a playoff type team. They started 6-0, no other team has started 6-0 and not made the playoffs in 25 years. They were one play away from winning their division.

This team could have won this division with competent leadership.

This team should have won that division. The blame falls where it always should when stuff like this happens. Poor coaching.

Exactly.......End of story.

[The Afoci]

My point is that this team was 6-0 because of great coaching at the beginning of the season. The team then went 3-7 after numerous defensive injuries and teams caught on that a run to the outside was gold against this squad. There is no denying that this team at home was a good or great squad. But on the road, they are absolutely pathetic.

So are you saying if they would have went 9-7 and started 3-3 that the coaching job Tice did this year would have been good. If anyone would have said at the beginning of this year that the Vikings would have been one play from the playoffs and winning the division, you would have been called crazy. Tice said when the team was 6-0 that they weren't very good and it proved true.

[Wasabiak]

You are missing the point!!!!! This team had HOW MANY opportunities to wrap up a playoff berth???? When it comes down to winning the last game against a horrible team to punch your playoff ticket, you better f'ing have your team ready. This team wasn't ready. This team got outcoached in every phase of the game yesterday.

[The Afoci]

You can only take certain talent so far. That is all I am saying. Should the Vikings beat Arizona on the road, yes. Should they beat Kansas City at home, no. But both happened. You can't say that talent won them the KC game but couldn't win the Arizona game.

Now my point is that is was great coaching in the first 6 games that got this team to the point of having the chance for the playoffs at all. Not all of this goes to Tice, O'Leary was able to make a bad defence look average for much of the season.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by The Afoci
You can only take certain talent so far. That is all I am saying. Should the Vikings beat Arizona on the road, yes. Should they beat Kansas City at home, no. But both happened. You can't say that talent won them the KC game but couldn't win the Arizona game.

Now my point is that is was great coaching in the first 6 games that got this team to the point of having the chance for the playoffs at all. Not all of this goes to Tice, O'Leary was able to make a bad defence look average for much of the season.

The Vikings certainly have the talent to beat the Chiefs. Thats how they beat the Chiefs.

Tice could have done better. They should be preparing to play in the wildcard round right now with a home game and a nice shot at making it to the second round. They have enough players right now, which is why they were 9-7. Bill Parcells would have won the NFC Central with this Vikings team a long time ago, IMHO.

[Wasabiak]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
Bill Parcells would have won the NFC Central with this Vikings team a long time ago, IMHO.

Yet another brilliant, almost certain statement from my good, close friend Die Hand.

Red, you get what you pay for.

Which.........leads me to this thought. What did yesterday do to any potential future stadium issues? Fuck, i don't even want to think about it.............

[mckerney]

I have to agree with The Afoci. There are several places where they need to upgrade before they're ready to be a serious contender. Luckily they're playing in the NFC Central, where no team really deserved to go to the playoffs, Green Bay got in as a 9-6 team that got a walkover in week 17.

The coaching staff helped the team this year, they didn't hurt it.

[The Afoci]

Yes, but comparing Bill Parcells to Mike Tice is insane. Unless you can bring in a Coach like that, keep Tice and improve the team. Tice wasn't what kept this team out of the playoffs. The kicker missing kicks isn't the coach(most games), the recievers dropping passes(Bates) isn't the coaches fault, and the players missing tackles and such isn't his fault.

Against Chicago, on one play, Bates drops a ball that hits him in the hands and would have been a TD. In the Arizona game, Elling misses a 46 yard field goal that eventually would have lead to the game winning TD to be a game tying TD. The season was filled with errors by players that shouldn't be starters or contributors to the team, but because ownership refuses to pay signing bonuses to bring big time talent in, this is what he is stuck with.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by The Afoci
Yes, but comparing Bill Parcells to Mike Tice is insane. Unless you can bring in a Coach like that, keep Tice and improve the team. Tice wasn't what kept this team out of the playoffs. The kicker missing kicks isn't the coach(most games), the recievers dropping passes(Bates) isn't the coaches fault, and the players missing tackles and such isn't his fault.

Against Chicago, on one play, Bates drops a ball that hits him in the hands and would have been a TD. In the Arizona game, Elling misses a 46 yard field goal that eventually would have lead to the game winning TD to be a game tying TD. The season was filled with errors by players that shouldn't be starters or contributors to the team, but because ownership refuses to pay signing bonuses to bring big time talent in, this is what he is stuck with.

Yea, you can't really compare Tice in Parcells. But thats kind of my point. Coaching makes the difference.

You can'ty hang your season on one play. The Viking mistakes are all part of a pattern, which has become a glaring problem since the 6-0 start.

[Wasabiak]

Originally posted by The Afoci
Tice wasn't what kept this team out of the playoffs. The kicker missing kicks isn't the coach(most games),

But this goes both ways Afoci. Your kicker isn't going to make a kick if the chance isn't given to him. Tice had a golden opportunity to do 2 things early in the game.......1) get the lead 2) give his kicker some confidence early in the game.

He passed on both. Was it a bad call? Well, had the Vikings scored a TD on 4th down, this thread most likely wouldn't even exist. I'm just saying.......Coaching 101 for idiots---TAKE THE POINTS WHEN YOU CAN GET THEM!!!

[The Afoci]

You got it right that if they score a TD, everything is rosey. I didn't see the first half of the game, but from what I heard, 4th and 1 with this O-Line against their D-Line is something I would chance on the road against a team you just gained 75 yards pretty easily against. If you get it, you demoralize them, if you don't, they have bad field position. But if it was more than 4th and 1, I would kick the field goal and go to next position.

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
Yea, you can't really compare Tice in Parcells. But thats kind of my point. Coaching makes the difference.

Yeah, but firing Tice and bringing someone else who will be one of the lowest paid coaches in the league isn't a good idea. The players like Tice and importantly, Moss and Culpepper love him.

Originally posted by Die Hand die Verletzt
You can'ty hang your season on one play. The Viking mistakes are all part of a pattern, which has become a glaring problem since the 6-0 start.

The problems did exist during the 6-0 start, it is just that the breaks were still going the Vikings ways. Once the LBers started getting injured, the youth of the defense was exposed and anyone could get to the outside and crush them.