Solecismic's next masterpiece (2004 edition)

[Draft Dodger]

the 2 things that caught my eye in TPB - realistic-sounding roster management (rule 5 drafts, compensatory picks, 40-man rosters - stuff that's sorely missed from OOTP, IMO), and a possible move to stats based game system over ratings based. also, this game is supposed to be very mod-friendly.

never played PureSim, but I will be keeping an eye on the development on this...

[Karim]

I voted for baseball because hockey is already covered by SI... Plus, I'd like to see what competition between FOB, TPB and OOTP would produce for the genre.

[Barkeep49]

TPB is, sadly, in a state of flux at the moment. Shaun has recently indicated that he hasn't been able to devote as much time as he would like to its development and he has been feeling burnt out as well. Hopefully he'll get a renewed vigor and we can see what looks to be a really exciting game.

[Airhog]

2 things.

1. If you were going to release a baseball sim, wouldnt you release it either before the season, or at the start of the season? Why wait until the middle of the season to release it?

2. Jim has the market on college football. I think it is only a matter of time before another company produces a college sim. I think he would like to revamp TCY to further push the gap of college sims.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

TPB is, sadly, in a state of flux at the moment. Shaun has recently indicated that he hasn't been able to devote as much time as he would like to its development and he has been feeling burnt out as well. Hopefully he'll get a renewed vigor and we can see what looks to be a really exciting game.

that's too bad - hadn't heard that. didn't another developer recently leave 400 because of some deadline pressure?

is this thread sufficiently jacked yet?

[Bonegavel]

I can't see Jim doing a race sim as I do not recall him ever mentioning racing in anything he has written and I see Jim as working on things for which he has passion. Anyone recall the different sports Jim has mentioned over the years?

[The_herd]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

I can't see Jim doing a race sim as I do not recall him ever mentioning racing in anything he has written and I see Jim as working on things for which he has passion. Anyone recall the different sports Jim has mentioned over the years?

No, but Jim's from the Northeast, he's not making a race sim.

[sabotai]

and a possible move to stats based game system over ratings based.

I think Shaun recently said that ratings will be staying in the game.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

I can't see Jim doing a race sim as I do not recall him ever mentioning racing in anything he has written and I see Jim as working on things for which he has passion. Anyone recall the different sports Jim has mentioned over the years?

Let me see if I can recall...

* He's mentioned football a time or two.
* Baseball is one of his favorite sports. He's mentioned that Baseball Mogul and Clay Dreslough were influences on FOF. He has also recently mentioned an admiration for Diamond Mind Baseball.
* He likes hockey (I think).
* He doesn't much care for basketball.
* He likes to play tennis.
* He mentioned an interest in politics and a political game in the past.
* He mentioned last year that he wasn't working on either a horse or auto racing game because he doesn't know enough about those sports.
* And curling... he mentioned this as an April Fools' Day joke some years ago and it's kind of come become one of FOFC's inside jokes.

Originally Posted by Airhog

2 things.

1. If you were going to release a baseball sim, wouldnt you release it either before the season, or at the start of the season? Why wait until the middle of the season to release it?

2. Jim has the market on college football. I think it is only a matter of time before another company produces a college sim. I think he would like to revamp TCY to further push the gap of college sims.

1. The last three "real" versions of FOF (2001, 4, and 2004) have been released in the middle of their respective seasons, and TPF was released near the end of the football season.

There probably is some penalty in sales to releasing a game midseason, but our favorite developers have learned that it's better to release a (mostly) stable game in the middle of the season than one that isn't ready at its beginning.

2. I wonder why EA Sports hasn't released their college game for the PC in 5 years.

EA had their opportunity to publish TCY, but passed, preferring to make FOF 2001 (and that leper stepchild, FOF 2002). And I think eventually someone will make a college football text sim, especially if Jim doesn't update TCY soon.

[Honolulu Blue]

Bumping to make sure everyone gets their vote in. TCY2 has a huge lead, but if you feel differently, you can get bragging rights when the next game is released.

Since it's not going to have any major influence on the poll, I will now make my purchasing inclinations known:

Would buy, probably first day - TCY2
Would probably buy, but not immediately - FOF: THSY, FO Tennis
Would consider buying - FOF 2005, FO Baseball, FO Politics, FO Curling
Probably would not buy, but could be persuaded otherwise - FO Basketball
Would not buy - FO Hockey (my evil twin, I'm sure, feels differently)

P.S. Curling on NBC this Saturday! I know Jim will be taking notes!

[clintl]

My suggestion is FOF: Total Universe, a consolidation of FOF and TCY, where you can run teams either in college or the pros, and get new coaching/GM offers from both as you build your career.

[clintl]

Dola...

What exactly would FOF: The High School Years be about? Unless you are running a private school, the talent pool is determined by school district boundaries, so you don't actually find your talent, you're stuck with whatever you have. It doesn't sound like it would be a particularly engaging game to me.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by clintl

Unless you are running a private school, the talent pool is determined by school district boundaries...

That's what you think. See "booster club" and "recruiting" below.

I have my doubts that it is something Jim would do, but there are many directions that he, or another developer, could take such a game:

Think of the potential feature list:

• Booster Club--Can they raise enough money to hire another assistant coach or two? Do we get them to raise the money for an on-campus stadium (or renovations to the existing one), or continue to play in the generic county-owned facility? Can we build a new weight room?
• Teachers--Do they like football and give your boys a break in the classroom (thereby hurting their academic rating when they get imported into TCY ), or pile the homework on during the season, distracting your boys from the more important business on the gridiron?
• The Whims Of High School Kids--Distractions such as a new girlfriend, being recruited (or NOT being recruited--you know how fragile those egos can get...), trouble at home, and how to deal with your typical I'm-17-years-old-and-I-know-it-all-and-can't-be-coached jerks.
• Parents--Will silly things like family vacations and summer jobs take precedence over summer weightlifting?
• Relationship With The Basketball Coach--Does he want your two-sport kids to practice on Saturdays in November and December, exposing them to potential injury during the playoffs?
• Recruiting--Of course, some of our players would be recruited by colleges, and I discussed that above. No, what I'm talking about here is recruiting guys to come live in your district (and play for your team). It always helps when a large local business is owned by a big-time supporter of your team, and he's willing to give a job to the father of that QB from the next town over if they'll move the family into your district, thereby making him immediately eligible to lead your school to glory.
• Adolescence--Is that 14-year-old 6'2", 145 pound freshman gonna be able to beef up and become the tight end I've dreamed of, or is he just gonna become a 6'6" skinny kid who isn't even strong enough to play in the post on the basketball team.
• JV and Freshman Teams--Micromanage these yourself by setting lineups, etc. or let your trusted assistant coaches handle these. Make decisions about who plays at what level: Do you need that Sophomore cornerback to play Varsity and give you depth in the secondary (which might risk his development since he doesn't play that much), or do you leave him down at JV where he can play every snap?
• Relationship With Middle School Coach--Can you convince him to run the Wing-T or Wishbone like you do in high school, so that your players are more experienced from the getgo?

[cthomer5000]

wait.. you guys have middle school football down there?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

wait.. you guys have middle school football down there?

Y'all don't???

Pretty much every middle school of any size has at least a football and basketball team, then there are the rec leagues as well--which in some cases are better talent groomers than the middle schools. Actually, that would be another decision-making aspect of a high school football sim: do you count on the local rec leagues or the middle school to groom your talent?

[corbes]

Please add dealing with obnoxious parents to the list.

edit- parents knowing what's best for their child, giving input to gameplanning, catcalling during the game, giving their kid instructions that are different from the coach's, etc...

[WussGawd]

Hmm. Regarding high school athletics, I can't speak for the rest of the country, but there is nothing in Arizona that would prevent a kid going to a public high school out of district. Happens quite often here, actually.

OTOH, high school athletics is too far to drill down and make it appealing to most people. I sincerely doubt anybody outside of Arizona cares about unseating a high school power here, and outside of Tucker HS, I don't really care much about high school football in Georgia, to be honest.

[cuervo72]

I say hockey - Jim stated elsewhere that he covered minor league hockey for a while, so there's my guess.

We had Jr High/Middle school football, and also local athletic association football. I think the AA had weight classes down to about 60 at one point. I started on the 70 pounders when I was 9. This was all before the big soccer-playing boom of course.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Y'all don't???

Pretty much every middle school of any size has at least a football and basketball team, then there are the rec leagues as well--which in some cases are better talent groomers than the middle schools. Actually, that would be another decision-making aspect of a high school football sim: do you count on the local rec leagues or the middle school to groom your talent?

Not in my neck of the woods (central jersey). You're talking rec leagues (which means Pop Warner football here) until the end of 8th grade. The middle schools do not field official school teams in any way.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by corbes

Please add dealing with obnoxious parents to the list.

edit- parents knowing what's best for their child, giving input to gameplanning, catcalling during the game, giving their kid instructions that are different from the coach's, etc...

LOL. That is the truth! I've known of several high schools where parents are banned from attending practice. Do that in the game, and perhaps your booster club's rating takes a negative hit, but your players' performances improve somewhat--but do they improve enough to get the booster club back to doing their job???

As for the marketability, I agree that it wouldn't have the appeal of FOF or TCY--which is why I doubt that a solo developer depending on game sales to support his family would undertake such a project.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Not in my neck of the woods (central jersey). You're talking rec leagues (which means Pop Warner football here) until the end of 8th grade. The middle schools do not field official school teams in any way.

Eh, no wonder Rutgers can't get any good recruits.

[cincyreds]

I would love to see Jim do a basketball game.

[corbes]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

LOL. That is the truth!

Disclaimer: That rant was not inspired in any way* by my experiences coaching high school basketball.




* yes it was.

[corbes]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

but do they improve enough to get the booster club back to doing their job???

dola-

a.k.a. Did you win the next game, or not?

[Ksyrup]

If Jim's going to do a high school football game, I hope he will incorporate sliders for "Acne Control."

[dawgfan]

I think the time is ripe for TCY2. Jim has already done 2 iteration of FOF since TCY came out, and there are a number of advances that could be incorporated. As others have pointed out, Jim has the PC college football market to himself, but who knows how long that will last. Producing a new and improved TCY could really solidify him in this area.

If not TCY2, I think he'll indulge his expressed desire to get into other sports, with the likeliest candidate baseball given his stated sports preferences. I'd love to see Jim's take on baseball; I've never been able to get into OOTP, and the sim speed issues limit the enjoyability of PureSim for me. If CraigSca ever finishes his baseball game I'll buy it immediately, but it sounds like he'll be busy working with Markus on OOTP. I'm not sure if Jim's vision of baseball would fit better with what I'm looking for than others on the market, but it's pretty likely I'd buy it right out of the gate.

None of the other options interest me that much.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It's amazing that a sport (NASCAR) with 75 million domestic fans does not have a good text sim dedicated to it, yet. It's a market waiting to be entered.

10 of which, have computers....

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

That's what you think. See "booster club" and "recruiting" below.

I have my doubts that it is something Jim would do, but there are many directions that he, or another developer, could take such a game:

Think of the potential feature list:

• Booster Club--Can they raise enough money to hire another assistant coach or two? Do we get them to raise the money for an on-campus stadium (or renovations to the existing one), or continue to play in the generic county-owned facility? Can we build a new weight room?
• Teachers--Do they like football and give your boys a break in the classroom (thereby hurting their academic rating when they get imported into TCY ), or pile the homework on during the season, distracting your boys from the more important business on the gridiron?
• The Whims Of High School Kids--Distractions such as a new girlfriend, being recruited (or NOT being recruited--you know how fragile those egos can get...), trouble at home, and how to deal with your typical I'm-17-years-old-and-I-know-it-all-and-can't-be-coached jerks.
• Parents--Will silly things like family vacations and summer jobs take precedence over summer weightlifting?
• Relationship With The Basketball Coach--Does he want your two-sport kids to practice on Saturdays in November and December, exposing them to potential injury during the playoffs?
• Recruiting--Of course, some of our players would be recruited by colleges, and I discussed that above. No, what I'm talking about here is recruiting guys to come live in your district (and play for your team). It always helps when a large local business is owned by a big-time supporter of your team, and he's willing to give a job to the father of that QB from the next town over if they'll move the family into your district, thereby making him immediately eligible to lead your school to glory.
• Adolescence--Is that 14-year-old 6'2", 145 pound freshman gonna be able to beef up and become the tight end I've dreamed of, or is he just gonna become a 6'6" skinny kid who isn't even strong enough to play in the post on the basketball team.
• JV and Freshman Teams--Micromanage these yourself by setting lineups, etc. or let your trusted assistant coaches handle these. Make decisions about who plays at what level: Do you need that Sophomore cornerback to play Varsity and give you depth in the secondary (which might risk his development since he doesn't play that much), or do you leave him down at JV where he can play every snap?
• Relationship With Middle School Coach--Can you convince him to run the Wing-T or Wishbone like you do in high school, so that your players are more experienced from the getgo?

This to me seems much more a relationship sim something that Jim hasn't seemed particularly inclined to programming beyond the simple chemistry features of the past two versions. This seems a much bigger part of things like CM and TPF. I would really love to play a FOF that incorperated some of the media and player handling aspects of CM. I think it would increase my enjoyment level about 20x

[SFL Cat]

I'd love to see a historical management sim, starting back in 1920s during the infancy of pro football.

There would be some interesting challenges: paying players after each game; watching someone who played for your team one week jump to another team that offered him more the next week; deciding whether you wanted to illlegally suit up "ringers" (college players who played pro ball under assumed names); not getting your cut of the gate because the home team barely had enough money to pay its own players; trying to figure out ways to keep your team afloat financially, without cushy TV and RADIO contracts; and trying to sign "name" college players -- at a time when most felt the pro game was a sleazy operation and didn't want to sully their gridiron reps (especially if they moved on into the coaching ranks following their playing days) by playing it.

It would be fun to watch the evolution of pro football strategy -- from single wing to modern west coast spreat attacks...from the basic Notre Dame box to today's complex defensive schemes.

It would also be fun to watch rival leagues (i.e. AAFC, AFL, WFL, USFL) spring up periodically and have to compete with them for talent.