OT: Tax Freedom day

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Arles

Don't forget, a study was done in the mid-90s on the optimal income tax rate for economic growth (using a 5-tiered bracket system). The result was a higher rate at the lowest income and a low rate at the highest income. So, the fact that we are the opposite shows that much of the tax system is based on politics, not economic growth. So, sticking it even more to the rich will not help economic growth and job creation.

There have been many studies on the issue of optimal tax rates and they rarely agree. The issue of job creation is espeically problematic as there is a lot of evidence that corporations do no create more jobs with lower taxes and that trickle down is highly suspect in that area (whereas it is much stronger in areas of decreasing the costs of consumer goods).

Although I'm not a democrat, I am one who believes that the purpose of government is not to create the most economic growth and job creation. In fact, I believe the government's purposes have very little to with the economy at all (and that is why I am neither a democrat or a republican).

[Arles]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I think your top numbers are fair (although one could also argue that FICA isn't a tax in the strictest sense). It should be noted that they still represent pre-filing numbers and don't count deductions at all (and that is a big difference).

I was using an AGI of 40K. The median AGI is about 30K. Plus, most people in the 30-50K range don't itemize (66% of overall tax payers take the flat deduction) or invest much outside of their 401K.

Originally Posted by John Galt

I've never heard of a service fee on rent. Go figure. Is it much?

It's not too much. A little more than the sales tax rate, IIRC.

Originally Posted by John Galt

I think your statement that most people in the 30K to 50K range spend a big chuck of their disposable income on cigarettes, gas, liquor, rental cars, etc. is a bit bold and unsupported.

Talk to any beer or cigarette advertising agency. They target that exact demographic. They must do that for a reason.

Originally Posted by John Galt

Either way, it doesn't add up to that much when you take out rent/food (adding in their respective lower taxes), state taxes and federal taxes.

If you go to a bar every week, have a long commute or smoke, look at the fees you pay. You will be amazed.

Originally Posted by John Galt

And I also find it a little ironic that one of the most hawkish posters on this boarding is lamenting high taxes due to military spending.

Stated this earlier:

Originally Posted by Arles

However, given the much larger population we have and the fact that we are (by default) the world's military, Canada's defense and police budget is simply not an option for us. Which, IMO, is a good thing.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Although I'm not a democrat, I am one who believes that the purpose of government is not to create the most economic growth and job creation. In fact, I believe the government's purposes have very little to with the economy at all (and that is why I am neither a democrat or a republican).

You are definately in the minority given the comments by most in this election year I look at it this way:

In a perfect world, the government would cut spending when it had to. But, considering gov't spending hasn't seen an actual cut in the last 30 years, I also realize it's not practical. So, let's then assume the government needs a certain value to survive. In order to increase the treasury to meet that value, one of the following must be used:

1. A higher tax rate.
2. Growing the economy.

I much prefer the second and therefore think the government should do everything in it's power to help option number 2 occur.

[Sharpieman]

Originally Posted by Whar

An observation by presidential administrations from chart Cost of Government by day 1977 - 2004

---------Started----Ended----Difference
Carter.....07/07..........06/24.......-13 days
Reagan....06/24........07/03.......+9 Days
Bush.......07/03........07/15.......+12 Days
Clinton....07/15........06/28.......-17 days
Bush W...06/28........07/07.......+9 Days

Why the hell do Republicans keep raising my taxes?

SERIOUSLY...I smell a spin coming on in a few hours...

[Sharpieman]

dola, Just kidding, I'm just trying to start a flame war.

I don't give any credence to this report. Why? It's totally biased. It was made up by a conservative special interest group who could easily scew the numbers by not including some of the complex factors in our tax system. They don't count deductions, non-taxable income (of course).

Lastly, any word in this report about the spending to fight terrorism or the projected cost of rebuilding Iraq and Afganistan?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

SERIOUSLY...I smell a spin coming on in a few hours...

I'll bite: anyone want to redo that chart based on who controls the house/senate? There is a misconception in this country that the President has control over the budget. All he has is veto authority, and not a line-item veto but the whole thing. Congress is what you want to be looking at for balanced budget issues.

And I'm not naive enough to sit here and say the same thing won't show up. I've been very disappointed at some of the spending habits of the current crop of Republican Senators and House members. But I'm not going to blame the President for budget deficits and government spending, either Democrat or Republican.

[Sharpieman]

I know, the chart really is dubious, just like the rest of the "information" in that document.