Knights of the Old Republic II!

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i pisss on the floor.

no i'm not drunk. fuck your mothers.

HAHAHAHAHA...lol

[gi]

Just order this game yesterday off of ebgames.com

I'll wait for the patch though. Reviews list bugs as the major flaw. The story is supposed to be better.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by gi

Just order this game yesterday off of ebgames.com

I'll wait for the patch though. Reviews list bugs as the major flaw. The story is supposed to be better.

I think I'm with you on waiting for the patch. I'm not even going to order it until I hear a good word on the patch.

[TazFTW]

I've had the PC since release but haven't been able to play it due to my crappy onboard sound. Waiting for my new sound card to arrive so I can start playing.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

I've had the PC since release but haven't been able to play it due to my crappy onboard sound. Waiting for my new sound card to arrive so I can start playing.

What was wrong with your old sound? Was it not compatible?

[TazFTW]

No, it was compatible according to their check system requirements program. Other people reported similar problems but were able to fix it by updated they're drivers. I couldn't do that in my case since I already had the latest drivers and onboard sound really doesn't get looked into. It was either I wait for a patch and hope they fix it or just buy a new sound card. I chose the latter.

[Tigercat]

My XBox version has gone all the way through 2 & 1/2 times with no problems, but from what I hear thats pretty lucky, there are some bugs even on XBox.

All I will say about the ending is don't get your hopes too up. Its a rushed ending(unless they've changed the PC ending from the XBox). All dark and light side endings had a much more closed dark feel scripted to them, but at the last minute apparently that was abandoned, and instead we are given much more open ended endings with very little meat to them, that feel totally rushed. The Dark Side ending only has a ~5 second cut scene after the final battle...

But besides that, I think this game does perhaps the best job of telling a back story of a player created character than any game in a while. Shame they didn't take an extra month to complete the droid planet thats eluded to by characters in the game and finish the ending. Thats deadlines for ya.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

My XBox version has gone all the way through 2 & 1/2 times with no problems, but from what I hear thats pretty lucky, there are some bugs even on XBox.

All I will say about the ending is don't get your hopes too up. Its a rushed ending(unless they've changed the PC ending from the XBox). All dark and light side endings had a much more closed dark feel scripted to them, but at the last minute apparently that was abandoned, and instead we are given much more open ended endings with very little meat to them, that feel totally rushed. The Dark Side ending only has a ~5 second cut scene after the final battle...

But besides that, I think this game does perhaps the best job of telling a back story of a player created character than any game in a while. Shame they didn't take an extra month to complete the droid planet thats eluded to by characters in the game and finish the ending. Thats deadlines for ya.

According to the various fan boards. Several hours of additional storyline were scripted and were even being implemented when deadlines forced them to be cut from the final product

There is hope (probably false hope) that they might add this material in a patch (not the first patch.)

[TazFTW]

Tigercat, take a look at this thread, http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29764 (not sure if you have to register to read the thread)

It is what Obsidian cut out of the game, supposedly to comply with LucasArts wanting the game out for the XBox by christmas. People on the boards are hoping/protesting/petitioning it gets coded back in for the PC version.

(page 2 of that thread has a more readable version than the first post)

[Tigercat]

Yea I've gotten the chance to read through a lot of that. Its all a shame, because as it stands KOTORII is a good game, but with a more complete plot that actually flowed better at the end, it could have even been better than KOTORI.

[SackAttack]

That's the development cycle for you, though. Why LucasArts failed to understand that KOTOR II would have been just as big a sales monster after the holidays as before them astounds me. And why more companies don't realize that putting games out throughout the year (and conditioning gamers to expect them that way) would be better for overall sales astounds me even more.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

That's the development cycle for you, though. Why LucasArts failed to understand that KOTOR II would have been just as big a sales monster after the holidays as before them astounds me. And why more companies don't realize that putting games out throughout the year (and conditioning gamers to expect them that way) would be better for overall sales astounds me even more.

Hmm - that does suck. I havent bought KOTOR II for the PC yet- enjoyed the first a lot, and just picked it up on an X-box(my self 3 month late b-day gift ) - and now Im wondering whether it will be worth it. KOTOR was the first RPG in years I've played, and I guess Im expecting 2 to be as good.

On the larger point, I think the appeal is to the casual gamer SA - they figure mom and dad will buy all the games for Christmas, but not after as easily. In essence, it speaks to the larger trend we see elsewhere of marginalizing your core audience (see ESPN) in favor of trying to reach fringes that may or may not be part of it.

[SackAttack]

Crap, that's true of more marginal titles, but games whose subject matter have a large following - seasonal sports titles notwithstanding - are generally ALWAYS going to sell well regardless of when you release them.

A Final Fantasy game could come out in July, and it would sell just as well as it would in February. The same is true for the sequel to not just the best Star Wars game in years, but one of the best games on Xbox, period. It would not have mattered when it was released - it would still sell a couple million copies.

"SpongeBob SquarePants," on the other hand...yeah, probably not gonna do as well outside of Christmas.

[lytic]

Still not here in Iceland. I knew I should have pre-ordered.

[Tasan]

Okay, KOTOR II crashes about every 3rd load screen for me. I even now plan my stopping of play for the night by saying "I'll play to the next crash." Invariably, its only about 5-10 minutes away, sometimes longer. ALWAYS save before changing 'areas'. Still, the game has been good enough to keep me coming back to it even through all the bugs.

*edit* I am talking about the PC version.

[TazFTW]

Got my sound card today and can finally play with sound! Problem now is I don't have any time today. Although I did play some of the prologue and then when I clicked on the Quit button it crashed. I guess it's not a big issue since I was leaving the game anyway.

[EagleFan]

I've put a few hours into the game so far and haven't had any problems with crashes (probably just doomed myslf). I like it so far. I like some of the early characters that you encounter, as well as some returning ones.

It'll take a little while until I have a full feel for the game though (splitting time between this and Vampire: Bloodlines (and now add FBCB into that mix).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

According to the various fan boards. Several hours of additional storyline were scripted and were even being implemented when deadlines forced them to be cut from the final product

There is hope (probably false hope) that they might add this material in a patch (not the first patch.)

Sounds like what allegedly happened with Final Fantasy VII where they left a bunch of the last disc on the cutting room floor and rushed it out. Always made sense to me and explains why the conclusion and most of the plot of FF7 was subpar.

SI

[SackAttack]

That would be a huge patch, though. Certainly not anything they could offer for Xbox users. Makes me wonder if they'd choose to walk that double-edged sword. Either release it for both (and take a long-assed time doing it), huge file sizes and all, or release it only for PC users and infuriate the Xbox crowd.

Or piss both camps off equally and leave it as-is.

[TazFTW]

I'm all for infuriating the XBox crowd.

[SackAttack]

That's wonderful, but while you're infuriating them don't forget that they represent 60-65% of the sales LucasArts is going to see, so if you'd like to see a KOTOR III, it's probably best not to cut off your nose to spite your face.

[lytic]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

That's wonderful, but while you're infuriating them don't forget that they represent 60-65% of the sales LucasArts is going to see, so if you'd like to see a KOTOR III, it's probably best not to cut off your nose to spite your face.

I'd like to see where you are getting your numbers... The PC market is much better for any platform now. Consoles have been passed up by the PC platform during the past 2 years.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by lytic

I'd like to see where you are getting your numbers... The PC market is much better for any platform now. Consoles have been passed up by the PC platform during the past 2 years.

I'd love to see where you are getting your numbers. Just walk into any EB or Gamestop, and you'll see thousandsa of console games, and off in a little bitty corner you might find a handfull of computer games. Computer game sales are dwarfed by console games.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by lytic

I'd like to see where you are getting your numbers... The PC market is much better for any platform now. Consoles have been passed up by the PC platform during the past 2 years.

Which is why PC shelf space has been steadily shrinking while the space allocated to consoles and handhelds grows, right?

That said, I'm speaking from a domestic standpoint, as I notice you're based in Iceland. Consoles have never been as popular in Europe as they have been in North America - Nintendo had a devil of a time breaking in there in the late '80s and early '90s because of the popularity of the PC - and the Xbox in particular isn't as strong in Europe and Japan as it is in the United States.

That said, if KOTOR II has been released in Europe, then sure, I could see it outselling the Xbox version there, but it's highly unlikely that it would do so in the United States.

And if you think a popular PC game, in general, is going to outsell a popular PS2 game, in general, you're sadly mistaken.

[lytic]

I'm in the USAF, I've only been here a year.

[HomerJSimpson]

BTW, here are the numbers for 2004 and 2003. Computer software sales actually dropped from 2004 to 2003.

according to the data compiled by the NPD Group, overall U.S. video game console software sales reached $5.2 billion (160.7 million units), computer games sales were $1.1 billion (45 million units), and a record $1.0 billion (42.3 million units) in portable software sales. In terms of total units sold, approximately 248 million computer and video games were sold in 2004 -- nearly two games for every home in America by ESA estimates. (Note: The numbers released by the ESA today do not include sales of game hardware or accessories.) By way of comparison, 2003 figures were: U.S. video game console sales reached $4.9 billion (149 million units), computer games sales were $1.2 billion (52.7 million units), and portable software sales were $903 million (37.4 million units). In terms of total units sold, 239.3 million computer or video games were sold in 2003.

[SackAttack]

In fairness, HJS, those numbers are slightly skewed, for two reasons:

1) more new PS2/Xbox/GC games in a given year than new PC games. Of course, that has the ring of a self-fulfilling prophecy: if there are more choices, a platform will be more popular, and if a platform is more popular, there will be more choices.

2) the price point for new PC software is generally less than the same game would cost on PS2 or Xbox. MVP 2005, for example, were it to sell equal numbers on the PC in relation to, say, the Xbox version, would have 33% less revenue on PC than on Xbox. Now, granted, that's a far cry from being outsold $5-$1, but it accounts for some of the difference whenever you have cross-platform titles.

But yeah, there's a reason you don't see as many PC games these days - the money is definitely in the console market.

[lytic]

That's also only US sales Homer... I've seen the numbers somewhere when I was in college, if I get time I'll look. The PC platform has improved much more than the console has and the games are better looking and more advanced. This has allowed the PC to take over sometime in the past 2 years.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

In fairness, HJS, those numbers are slightly skewed, for two reasons:

1) more new PS2/Xbox/GC games in a given year than new PC games. Of course, that has the ring of a self-fulfilling prophecy: if there are more choices, a platform will be more popular, and if a platform is more popular, there will be more choices.

2) the price point for new PC software is generally less than the same game would cost on PS2 or Xbox. MVP 2005, for example, were it to sell equal numbers on the PC in relation to, say, the Xbox version, would have 33% less revenue on PC than on Xbox. Now, granted, that's a far cry from being outsold $5-$1, but it accounts for some of the difference whenever you have cross-platform titles.

But yeah, there's a reason you don't see as many PC games these days - the money is definitely in the console market.

Those numbers showed the actual units sold, and again the console sales dwarfed the computer sales, which is my point.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by lytic

That's also only US sales Homer... I've seen the numbers somewhere when I was in college, if I get time I'll look. The PC platform has improved much more than the console has and the games are better looking and more advanced. This has allowed the PC to take over sometime in the past 2 years.

Incorrect. Faster, absolutely. That's the nature of the technology curve. Static platforms like game consoles update in leaps and bounds every 5 years, while the PC is on a steady upward march in terms of technology. When you can swap out a new part, it makes more sense to upgrade on a more frequent basis.

That said...I'd not be surprised to learn that PC games outsell console games in Europe, but on a worldwide basis, that contention would be absolutely false. Better-looking games? Absolutely. Better sales? Not by the hair on your aunt's chin.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by lytic

That's also only US sales Homer... I've seen the numbers somewhere when I was in college, if I get time I'll look. The PC platform has improved much more than the console has and the games are better looking and more advanced. This has allowed the PC to take over sometime in the past 2 years.

Every stat I'm seeing, console sales world-wide are 2-3x computer software sales, and in Europe console sales are double PC sales. As much as I wish it wasn't true, there is a whole lot more money in console games.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by HomerJSimpson

Every stat I'm seeing, console sales world-wide are 2-3x computer software sales, and in Europe console sales are double PC sales. As much as I wish it wasn't true, there is a whole lot more money in console games.

Depends on how you interpret that. True, you can sell the most on consoles. Last year, I think the two biggest games on PC were Half Life 2 and Sims 2 which both tallied between 1 and 2 million copies. GTA: SA and Halo 2 both sold over 5 million copies. Dragon Quest VIII sold over 3.5 million copies in Japan (RPGs are a whole other ballgame over there). That said, it was a rare year that 2 (3, including Japan) big sellers like that came out. The year before, I believe PS2 Madden (*wretch*) was the top seller with over 2 million copies sold since there were no huge megahits.

That said, Rockstar has to pay Sony and Squeenix has to pay Sony to put these games on their system and also has to use their special PS2 discs. Since Bungie got bought out before this generation, Microsoft doesn't pay Microsoft to release Halo 2 but they still have to press it to X-Box DVDs which have a higher production cost than putting any PC game to DVD. So there are higher costs involved with making a console game, too.

SI

[TazFTW]

according to the data compiled by the NPD Group, overall U.S. video game console software sales reached $5.2 billion (160.7 million units), computer games sales were $1.1 billion (45 million units), and a record $1.0 billion (42.3 million units) in portable software sales. In terms of total units sold, approximately 248 million computer and video games were sold in 2004 -- nearly two games for every home in America by ESA estimates. (Note: The numbers released by the ESA today do not include sales of game hardware or accessories.) By way of comparison, 2003 figures were: U.S. video game console sales reached $4.9 billion (149 million units), computer games sales were $1.2 billion (52.7 million units), and portable software sales were $903 million (37.4 million units). In terms of total units sold, 239.3 million computer or video games were sold in 2003.

I would believe these numbers would not include sales of Half-Life 2 via Steam and games like FOF/OOTP. I would also say that pirating of PC games is more frequent than that of consoles (not that it would make a difference compairing console sales to PC sales but it would make a difference comparing PC sales by year).

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Depends on how you interpret that. True, you can sell the most on consoles. Last year, I think the two biggest games on PC were Half Life 2 and Sims 2 which both tallied between 1 and 2 million copies. GTA: SA and Halo 2 both sold over 5 million copies. Dragon Quest VIII sold over 3.5 million copies in Japan (RPGs are a whole other ballgame over there). That said, it was a rare year that 2 (3, including Japan) big sellers like that came out. The year before, I believe PS2 Madden (*wretch*) was the top seller with over 2 million copies sold since there were no huge megahits.

That said, Rockstar has to pay Sony and Squeenix has to pay Sony to put these games on their system and also has to use their special PS2 discs. Since Bungie got bought out before this generation, Microsoft doesn't pay Microsoft to release Halo 2 but they still have to press it to X-Box DVDs which have a higher production cost than putting any PC game to DVD. So there are higher costs involved with making a console game, too.

SI

And as Josh pointed out, console games sell for 20-30% more than PC games to make up for the added cost. Look, those stats showed console games bring in nearly 5x the income of pc software, and sell nearly 4x the number of units. No matter how you slice it, that is MORE MONEY.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

I would believe these numbers would not include sales of Half-Life 2 via Steam and games like FOF/OOTP. I would also say that pirating of PC games is more frequent than that of consoles (not that it would make a difference compairing console sales to PC sales but it would make a difference comparing PC sales by year).

I believe those numbers include everything. It is a market analysis. I didn't create them, but it is the reality looked at by the companies making these games. And pirating has zero to do with this discussion.


What in the heck is the arguing about here. PC games sales are a fraction of console sales. That is a fact whether you like it or not (I personally don't, but I don't try to ignore reality).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by HomerJSimpson

And as Josh pointed out, console games sell for 20-30% more than PC games to make up for the added cost. Look, those stats showed console games bring in nearly 5x the income of pc software, and sell nearly 4x the number of units. No matter how you slice it, that is MORE MONEY.

Yeesh, switch to decaf. I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, the numbers I posted more than back that up.

Tho, I would question SA's assessment that PC games sell for 20-30% less. I've never paid much attention to PC game costs so I'm not disagreeing- I just don't know. For consoles, unless you're talking about a AAA title, within 6-9 months a high selling game hits the $20 "Greatest Hits" shelf. Is this similar for PC games? Tho there's no greatest hits line, I don't see any big games from last year for sale at $50 these days but do they lose their value that much quicker than console games? I've seen a few PC games sell for over $50 and special editions are more common than with console so I don't think they start lower, but maybe they end up there.

SI

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeesh, switch to decaf. I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, the numbers I posted more than back that up.

SI

I would say your comment stating "depends on how you interpret that" is disagreeing with how I interpret that. This stuff isn't opinion, it is stark reality.

As for prices, just check out the normal PC release price point versus console price point. PC range from $29 to $50 dollars (most start at the middle point of that range), whereaas consoles pretty consistantly hit $50. Madden for consoles sold new for $50, and $29-$39 for PC.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeesh, switch to decaf. I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, the numbers I posted more than back that up.

Tho, I would question SA's assessment that PC games sell for 20-30% less. I've never paid much attention to PC game costs so I'm not disagreeing- I just don't know. For consoles, unless you're talking about a AAA title, within 6-9 months a high selling game hits the $20 "Greatest Hits" shelf. Is this similar for PC games? Tho there's no greatest hits line, I don't see any big games from last year for sale at $50 these days but do they lose their value that much quicker than console games? I've seen a few PC games sell for over $50 and special editions are more common than with console so I don't think they start lower, but maybe they end up there.

SI

Most PC games started at a price point of $39.99. However, I've seen a trend in the past few months of the bigger games being released at $49.99.

As for the question of PC games dropping price, they do. Doom 3 was released at $54.99, you can now get it online for $35-39 and stores like Best Buy would put it on sale for $25-29. Far Cry was release in March/April '04 at $49.99, you can get it now for $20.

As for PC games dropping prices earlier than the console counterpart, this was extremely true for the EA Sports games. EA would release the PC versions at $39.99, with the console version at $49.99. Then in January EA would drop the price on the PC versions (for Madden, Fifa, NHL, NBA) to $19.99 while the console versions stayed. A quick check at eb.com would show the PC version of Madden 05 at $19.99 with the console versions at $29.99 and the console versions dropped price fast this year because of the Sega game being $19.99

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeesh, switch to decaf. I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, the numbers I posted more than back that up.

Tho, I would question SA's assessment that PC games sell for 20-30% less. I've never paid much attention to PC game costs so I'm not disagreeing- I just don't know. For consoles, unless you're talking about a AAA title, within 6-9 months a high selling game hits the $20 "Greatest Hits" shelf. Is this similar for PC games? Tho there's no greatest hits line, I don't see any big games from last year for sale at $50 these days but do they lose their value that much quicker than console games? I've seen a few PC games sell for over $50 and special editions are more common than with console so I don't think they start lower, but maybe they end up there.

SI

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that ALL games sell for 30% less. I was using an example of one particular game that does to show that pure revenue isn't a completely reliable metric. Also, I was looking at cross-platform titles, as opposed to games that show up for one or the other. The big titles, such as Doom 3 and Half-Life 2, are absolutely going to both be around $50.

[TazFTW]

Post from LucasArts support forums about the patch,

Hi all,

We know that everyone has been waiting for some word on when and how we would address some of the issues with the PC version of Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords.

As of Tuesday we have a "patch candidate" in QA for verification. It will take several days to test and verify all the fixes, and to make sure that the patch plays nice with all system configs etc. We hope to release the patch very shortly - check back here for any updates. We're not providing a date for fear that we find another issue that needs to be addressed, and the patch would need to be pushed back. LucasArts and Obsidian are both working diligently to get the patch together and released as soon as possible.

We anticipate the patch being available for all language versions on or around the same day. We also hope to post a patch list that documents the changes that you can look for when installing the patch.

Finally, thanks for your patience, and we hope that you enjoy the game.

Mike Gallo
LucasArts Producer
2-24-05

[Eaglesfan27]

Good news! I'm waiting for the patch to start playing the game.

[Blackadar]

I was going to buy this for the xbox during Christmas. Actually, I was hoping that I'd get it as a gift, but wound up with Fable instead - which I've never played.

Didn't even realize the PC version is out...may have to pick this one up if I can find the time during my Warcraft sessions.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Good news! I'm waiting for the patch to start playing the game.

It is indeed good news as I have just started playing and it has now crashed twice and I'm still on the first planet.

[EagleFan]

Can't wait for a patch now. Didn;t have any trouble until I was about to leave the first planet and it crashes in the same spot each time. I guess I have no chioce but to wait for a patch.

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm such a liar. I broke down and bought this. So far, after figuring out how to get it loaded, I haven't had any problems. Of course, I just left the first planet. When did your crash occur?

[EagleFan]

each time I get on the Ebon Hawk.

[TazFTW]

Do you get to play the turret mini game (When you get on board the Ebon Hawk at Peragus, Atton tells you to man the laser turret and take out the Sith Soldiers) or does it crash before you get to that?

If it crashes before the turret game, you could try entering the Ebon Hawk backwards (face the area opposite the Ebon Hawk entrance and walk backwards). Haven't had that problem (yet) but I've read on the support boards that the method worked for some people.

[EagleFan]

That's where it crashes. I'll try that out, thanks.

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm surprised, but I haven't had a major crash. Was able to travel to Telos (?), and even got on the planet surface without a problem. This is surprising mainly because I had a night-mare getting KOTOR I to play, and it never really did very well.

[TazFTW]

The following was posted by Chris Avellone at Obsidians' board;

The patch is on the way, but still being tested. We won't have a list of all the fixes until it's ready to be downloaded, unfortunately.

I don't have an ETA on it yet, but it shouldn't be too much longer.

and when asked if it was a bug patch or a content patch,

It's a bug fix patch. We haven't heard back from LucasArts on doing a content patch. We asked some time ago, but they've been busy with the Episode III game, so no surprise there.

More info as we get it,

Chris

Well, at least they mentioned trying to get a content patch.