More London Attacks?

[Rizon]

Turns out the man shot today was an American tourist upset over ice not being in his fucking drink.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Bee

I don't see that happening, but I do think it's possible that at some point if the terrorists push too far you'll see the US take off the gloves in dealing with international issues. I could see it getting to the point that we'd ignore other countries "international rights" and use strike forces to go after all known terrorist targets no matter where they are. Perhaps even the use of tactical nukes, although I don't imagine they would come in handy in very many instances if it all. I would imagine just an overall much stricter enforcement of Bush's "you're either with us or against us" approach. But I don't see any massive nuclear strike by us when there are much more efficient ways of dealing with things.

Problem is, I dont' think we know where they are. Heck, we know some of them are in Iraq, yet we can't get them.

And all this talk of nukes is silly. If we knew where they were and they were willing to stand and fight, we could easily take them out with conventional weapons.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by moriarty

Problem is, I dont' think we know where they are. Heck, we know some of them are in Iraq, yet we can't get them.

And all this talk of nukes is silly. If we knew where they were and they were willing to stand and fight, we could easily take them out with conventional weapons.

To borrow a useful analogy ... I can't always find every single rattlesnake in a field, but if I bush-hog that field, I sure do make it harder for them to hide.

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Turns out the man shot today was an American tourist upset over ice not being in his fucking drink.

not funny

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by moriarty

It's kinda weird, it's not the usual Bin Laden tactic to follow up a terrorist activity with a similar one shortly afterward (at least i dont' think it is). Wonder if this is a new strategy, or if the second group screwed the pooch and missed their original date.

I believe after the Madrid bombings further bombs were found on the train lines which were supposed to go off after the original ones. So I'm not sure we can't claim this isn't an Al-Qaeda taught tactic.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

thick winter jacket in the summer + running from cops = death

I have no problem with this formula

Unless you are going to a costume party dressed as the terminator and suddenly that bran muffin kicks in?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by TroyF

If they think the Brits are like the people in Spain, they must have forgotten the IRA. I don't see the British backing down. I see them stepping up.

Hello, ETA?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Let's say that I believe Congressman Tom Tancredo's recent remarks were accurate & appropriate.

So what you're saying is that we should act like terrorists, right?

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

To borrow a useful analogy ... I can't always find every single rattlesnake in a field, but if I bush-hog that field, I sure do make it harder for them to hide.

You scare me.

[jeff061]

That's impossible. You can't be a terrorist unless your targets are westerners.

[sachmo71]

Uh-oh...

Jon is playing stick in the beehive again!

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I believe after the Madrid bombings further bombs were found on the train lines which were supposed to go off after the original ones. So I'm not sure we can't claim this isn't an Al-Qaeda taught tactic.

Further, groups change tactics. The goal of these attacks might be to slow the economy of Britian by attacking the transportation infrastructure. It may be that the plan is to have numerous attacks spaced out over several weeks until they cause either the security to be so tight that it slows down the rate of business, or the shut down of the tube system which would be a major problem for businesses in London.

[moriarty]

How did we turn this into another political/policy thread anyways? Can we save this thread for updates on the bombing / investigation?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

To borrow a useful analogy ... I can't always find every single rattlesnake in a field, but if I bush-hog that field, I sure do make it harder for them to hide.

So, by extension, you'll be advocating the nuclear razing of Great Britain, seeing as how that's where the London bombers originated from?

[TroyF]

I'm not saying I agree with what will eventually happen, I'm just saying I think it WILL happen. Fear does some really strange things to people. Eventually, they are going to take it one step too far. The people of Israel, Britain, the US and other countries are going to stop thinking of the terrorists as a pest and they are going to be genuinely afraid for their lives.

When that happens, I can PROMISE you things are going to turn ugly.

And if the terrorists want that to happen, they are stupider than even I thought they were. Because if that happens, they won't have to worry about a ton of Muslims running around to take up the fight.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

So what you're saying is that we should act like terrorists, right?

No what he is saying is we should take up the "Final Solution" to the problem. He is for the complete annihilation of anyone that does not think like him.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by moriarty

Problem is, I dont' think we know where they are. Heck, we know some of them are in Iraq, yet we can't get them.

And all this talk of nukes is silly. If we knew where they were and they were willing to stand and fight, we could easily take them out with conventional weapons.

I'm guessing we have a ton of suspicous sites on our list and I'm guessing if it gets to the point that Troy was talking about, they all get bombed. I don't see nuking the entire middle east or anything remotely resembling that, but I do see us getting to the point that we start taking out suspicious locations without full confirmation that they are terrrorist training grounds, bomb making factories, etc.

And if it gets to the point that Troy was talking about, I'd also expect to see a major rounding up of suspects beyond what we saw after 9-11 and probably not just in the US but worldwide with extractions being performed all over without regard to international rights, etc.

Like I said, I could see the possibility of tactical nukes on specific targets if deemed appropriate, but that's a far cry from the kind of nukes that you are talking about.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by HomerJSimpson

Further, groups change tactics. The goal of these attacks might be to slow the economy of Britian by attacking the transportation infrastructure. It may be that the plan is to have numerous attacks spaced out over several weeks until they cause either the security to be so tight that it slows down the rate of business, or the shut down of the tube system which would be a major problem for businesses in London.

Yeah, along those lines, a very plausible tactic that they could try would be to trigger a lot of nuisance false alarms. Things like leaving an empty knapsack in the subway or the airport, checking in for a flight but not boarding the plane. They shut down entire airports when they investigate these potential threats--imagine what it could do to the economy if the airport or the subway is shut down every other day. And they could do this without detonating a single bomb...

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Yeah, along those lines, a very plausible tactic that they could try would be to trigger a lot of nuisance false alarms. Things like leaving an empty knapsack in the subway or the airport, checking in for a flight but not boarding the plane. They shut down entire airports when they investigate these potential threats--imagine what it could do to the economy if the airport or the subway is shut down every other day. And they could do this without detonating a single bomb...

As could every other group of nutjobs under the sun.

[bob]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

what would that be?

- "Can you imagine some pretty unattractive alternatives?"

- "Not without slides..."




Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood a little.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by moriarty

Nuclear extermination? As in drop nukes on every middle eastern country, knowing that we'll kill about a billion or so innocent people but we might, just might, get a handful of terrorist in there.

Yep, with the global nuclear fallout resulting from a massive strike, we'd be killing a whole bunch of ourselves, too. Also, I hope we've switched to alternative fuels by then.

Sounds like a well-thought out and clever strategy to me!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Bee

... tactical nukes on specific targets ...

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Uh-oh... Jon is playing stick in the beehive again!

Nope. Look back in the thread, it wasn't me who brought it up. I just offered an explanation to a reference that Kevin didn't understand.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by moriarty

You scare me.

I probably should.

[KevinNU7]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe...ube/index.html

[flere-imsaho]

Jon, if you feel obliterating Mecca (and/or other sites of importance to Islam) with "tactical" nuclear weapons is the solution to terrorism, you are woefully misguided.

As a counter-example, what would you, as an American, do if someone, say, blew up the White House, Pentagon or World Trade Center?

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Jon, if you feel obliterating Mecca (and/or other sites of importance to Islam) with "tactical" nuclear weapons is the solution to terrorism, you are woefully misguided.

As a counter-example, what would you, as an American, do if someone, say, blew up the White House, Pentagon or World Trade Center?

Please stop.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

I'm with you on this one. Tell them they have a week to hand over Bin Laden or whoever you want to put on a list or the nukes are dropping. We'd probably have to drop one but after that watch how easy it will be to locate these scumbags.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I'm with you on this one. Tell them they have a week to hand over Bin Laden or whoever you want to put on a list or the nukes are dropping. We'd probably have to drop one but after that watch how easy it will be to locate these scumbags.

Or, alternatively, you instead radicalize the entire Muslim population, and now get to deal with 1.3 billion terrorists. Are you willing to take that chance?

Again, how would you react if terrorists blew up the White House, Pentagon or World Trade Center? Would you give up and accede to the terrorists' demands?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Or, alternatively, you instead radicalize the entire Muslim population, and now get to deal with 1.3 billion terrorists. Are you willing to take that chance?

Again, how would you react if terrorists blew up the White House, Pentagon or World Trade Center? Would you give up and accede to the terrorists' demands?

They already blew shit up. We didn't start this.

If none of the 1.3 billion muslims are willing to help bring to justice the terroists than f-ck em, they are all terrorists.

So how many right now out of 1.3 billion muslims are actually terrorists? Hmm...can't be a big percentage. What's wrong with the rest of them sitting on their asses while their evil breatheren blow shit up.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

They already blew shit up. We didn't start this.

If none of the 1.3 billion muslims are willing to help bring to justice the terroists than f-ck em, they are all terrorists.

So how many right now out of 1.3 billion muslims are actually terrorists? Hmm...can't be a big percentage. What's wrong with the rest of them sitting on their asses while their evil breatheren blow shit up.

HA!

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

They already blew shit up. We didn't start this.

If none of the 1.3 billion muslims are willing to help bring to justice the terroists than f-ck em, they are all terrorists.

So how many right now out of 1.3 billion muslims are actually terrorists? Hmm...can't be a big percentage. What's wrong with the rest of them sitting on their asses while their evil breatheren blow shit up.

You'll have to forgive rkmsuf, he spent his last five years out in the woods hunting down Eric Rudolph, while the rest of us sat on our asses playing xbox.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by moriarty

You'll have to forgive rkmsuf, he spent his last five years out in the woods hunting down Eric Rudolph, while the rest of us sat on our asses playing xbox.

Heh heh, xbox players are all terrorists!

Edit: the one's not hunting down Eric Rudolph, that is...

[rkmsuf]

If I catch a Muslim playing Xbox there is going to be trouble.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Nope. Look back in the thread, it wasn't me who brought it up. I just offered an explanation to a reference that Kevin didn't understand.

Jon, just expressing your opinion stirs up the bees. I'm not blaming the stick; it is what it is.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Or, alternatively, you instead radicalize the entire Muslim population, and now get to deal with 1.3 billion terrorists. Are you willing to take that chance?

Eh, had a fairly long reply written, but realized that you should know by now pretty much exactly what my take on this is & that the post would be irrelevant -- you already know the answer to what you asked.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

They already blew shit up. We didn't start this.

If none of the 1.3 billion muslims are willing to help bring to justice the terroists than f-ck em, they are all terrorists.

So how many right now out of 1.3 billion muslims are actually terrorists? Hmm...can't be a big percentage. What's wrong with the rest of them sitting on their asses while their evil breatheren blow shit up.

You totally missed his point.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by jeff061

You totally missed his point.

oh well. I try hard.

[Coder]

Aren't you forgetting that after every attack of this sort, Muslims are interviewed and condemn the attacks. Or isn't that shown on Fox News? Maybe some media outlets aren't interested in shifting the blame from the entire faith of Islam to just a few ultra conservatives?

Sky News is non-stop showing interviews with Muslim Clerics, "regular" British Muslims, all saying the same things. According to a poll they've run today, 88% of the British Muslims think there's NO justification for the attacks in the Koran.. only 5% thought there was.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...391671,00.html

Several of the busdrivers and tubedrivers in London are Muslims.. do you think they consider these attacks a brilliant idea? Do you honestly think that just because they're not out there with guns hunting down any potential neighbours who could be planning the next attack they're Al-Qaeda supporters?

http://www.sky.com/skynews/home

Ah well.. no one listens to a Swede anyway

[Klinglerware]

Jag lyssnar...

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Coder

Aren't you forgetting that after every attack of this sort, Muslims are interviewed and condemn the attacks. Or isn't that shown on Fox News? Maybe some media outlets aren't interested in shifting the blame from the entire faith of Islam to just a few ultra conservatives?

Sky News is non-stop showing interviews with Muslim Clerics, "regular" British Muslims, all saying the same things. According to a poll they've run today, 88% of the British Muslims think there's NO justification for the attacks in the Koran.. only 5% thought there was.

What's 5% of 1.3 billion? Just curious...

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Bee

What's 5% of 1.3 billion? Just curious...

65 million?

Holy crap, bring out the nukes and bomb the islamic holy site of Jerusalem.

Quick!

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Bee

What's 5% of 1.3 billion? Just curious...

Probably the same percentage of Americans would sympathize with or claim the same sort of justification in the bible for the abortion clinic and gay club bombings. Doesn't make 'em terrorists though...

[Bee]

Originally Posted by moriarty

65 million?

Holy crap, bring out the nukes and bomb the islamic holy site of Jerusalem.

Quick!

Of course, the 5% was only British Muslims. I'll go out on a limb and guess that the percentage would be higher in some of the more "radical" muslim countries...

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Probably the same percentage of Americans would sympathize with or claim the same sort of justification in the bible for the abortion clinic and gay club bombings. Doesn't make 'em terrorists though...

Didn't say it did. But it's interesting to see how many feel the attacks are justified and what size "pool" the terrorists have to draw from. Although as I posted above, I'm guessing the 5% is a pretty low percentage overall considering it's based on British Muslims (unless they are far more radical than I've been led to believe)

[Solecismic]

I have to pretty much stay out of this one due to recent events.

I'll just say this: the innocent Muslims around the world need to do more. They need to cast the violent aggressors out of the religion entirely. Their condemnations so far seem very weak and support of terrorism (5% in Britain) is enormous.

Things have just gone too far. They are quickly reaching the point where they have less credibility than Tom Cruise and his Scientology friends.

[Dutch]

Terrrorism being spawned from the middle east is still going to happen. No need to retaliate with nuclear weapons against a group of people who have absolutely no say in what's going on inside their borders.

But there is a need to stay the course. Continue to over-throw rogue regimes that fuel pro-terror propaganda. Continue to install governments that take responsability for their actions with regard to terrorists groups. Continue to offer the people more information than just one sided information. Continue to empower the people of the region to make the choice on a government-scale on whether they which to support terror or not.

[Cringer]

We could also help stop terrorism by not harboring those wanted by other countries for blowing up planes.....

[moriarty]

Umm... in other news, they released pictures of several of the alleged bombers (or failed bombers).

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by TroyF

If they think the Brits are like the people in Spain, they must have forgotten the IRA.

Ok, I've read somethig like this a couple times on this thread, and it's crap. The Spanish people were not cowed by terrorism. Every Spaniard, regardless of political affiliation, wants to stand up to terrorists, the same as in this country. It's just that the left leaning components, as in this country, believe that going to war in Iraq is an idiotic way to combat terrorists (90% of the Spanish were against the Iraq war), and so they (we) get labeled soft on terrorism. Furthermore, the right leaning parts lost the Spanish elections because of a cover-up of the bombings where they continued to blame a Basque group even though it was clear that it was Al Queda. They lost all credibility with voters then.