What's up with all the serialized dramas now?

[bosshogg23]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Kidnapped has been canceled. Apparently they are going to wrap it up in the 13th episode.

Vanished is being moved to Fridays after the playoffs end. The main character was fired from the show due to cast/crew disputes. The major arc will be wrapped up by the 13th episode as well here. All 3 of those things dont add up to a long run for Vanished.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Your post is just more evidence of what I'm saying. TV takes one thing that succeeds and makes 10 copy-cats hoping a couple latch on. That's the case here, nothing to do with TiVO.

The copy-cat phenomenon is certainly true. That's how TV, films, music, art, sports, etc. all work. Something or someone succeeds and people flock to try copy it/him/her in hopes of gaining similar success. Actually, looking at the Nielsen ratings and the TiVO ratings it doesn't really seem like any of the "serial" shows other than the "big ones" such as "Desperate Housewives" and "Lost" are really all that popular anyway. When "24" returns it will have high rating no doubt.

To say that TiVO plays no role at all in these show's success is extreme. There isn't a person I know who has a DVR who hasn't claimed that it changed their viewing habits. Not a one. So they watch different show or more/less TV. While their numbers might be small (12%), word of mouth generated by listeners does have an impact. I would think that the affect DVRs have on viewing habits does, indeed, go further than just the small percentage of people who have DVRs.

The commerical/TiVO discussion is sort of irrelevant to this discussion.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Actually, looking at the Nielsen ratings and the TiVO ratings it doesn't really seem like any of the "serial" shows other than the "big ones" such as "Desperate Housewives" and "Lost" are really all that popular anyway. When "24" returns it will have high rating no doubt.

I would argue that it's because a lot of the serial shows are new this fall and still building up popularity and fan base.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I would argue that it's because a lot of the serial shows are new this fall and still building up popularity and fan base.

And all those that debuted last year?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

All that being said - do you agree (since you'd know better than any of us) that TiVO viewers do not have sway in what goes on TV? That they are a virtual non-factor right now in the TV world?

Ehhhhhh ... that's actually a pretty hard question.

While they may only account for something like 10% of a show's viewers (IIRC your example), that 10% (or whatever it is) has become a very contentious matter for pricing of commercials.

This year's upfront (when most network TV commercials are bought) was delayed as the networks & the buyers played chicken over how/if to count "time-shifted" viewers. Ultimately it was the networks who caved and agreed to negotiate on the basis of traditional live viewing numbers instead of the new live-plus-seven-days measurement now available from Nielsen.

Eventually, I suspect we'll see those time shifted viewers counted, but only at some fractional portion factored based on whatever the eventually accepted figure for commercial skipping is arrived upon. Right now, it seems to range from a high of 75% to a low of maybe 1/3rd, all depending upon which number is advantageous to the person doing the guesstimating.

Now, in spite of all this, the actual significance of the TiVo'ers et al is still unclear. The reason being that it isn't causing prices to drop at the networks, but rather it's slowing the rate of rate inflation. So it is important, just nobody has decided how important it really is.

Clear as mud, huh?

[panerd]

I am a TIVO owner and if I was asked in a survey if I watched commercials I would say yes. Why? So they don't try and find other bullshit ways to shove advertising at me. Maybe nobody else thinks like me, but maybe that is some of the reason why there is such a high percentage of TIVO users who say they watch commercials.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually, a recent study in the UK suggests that more than twice that many watch the commercials.

I wanted to expand on this, because I didn't really say it right originally.
Several studies have given different indications about how many commercials get zapped.

The UK study, which hasn't been released in full yet AFAIK, was a small study (about two dozen participants)

Meanwhile, in the past year:
-- One study showed that "63 percent of DVR users will stop for commercials that look funny. More than half said they would stop for a product they are considering buying, while 49 percent said they will stop for eye-catching images."
-- The same study said that "the incidence of people fast-forwarding is high, in the 70 percent range ... (but) ... the study also found that 55 percent of DVR users will occasionally stop to watch commercials that catch their attention."
-- A different study "estimates that 8 percent of homes have a DRV. It also found that 2 percent of all TV commercials are being skipped. The firm estimates that by 2009 DVR penetration will hit 40 percent, with 10 percent of commercials lost to fast-forwarding."
-- And yet another study said "of those who’ve had a DVR for more than one year, 72 percent always or often fast-forward through commercials when watching recorded shows."

In other words, the numbers are coming in scattered all over the board & none of them seem solid enough to hang too big a hat on.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

And all those that debuted last year?

What all ones debuted last year? I have to admit I only started getting back into TV watching a little bit with Joan of Arcadia and when they cancelled it right in the middle of the fricking third or fourth season with NO RESOLUTION, I got ticked and went back to non-watching, other than Rome when I could catch it.

Then I saw advertisements for Heroes and Friday Night Lights in the movie theatres and I was so intrigued I decided to check them out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by panerd

... but maybe that is some of the reason why there is such a high percentage of TIVO users who say they watch commercials.

Although it wouldn't have surprised me if there was some truth to this, the recent UK study actually showed just the opposite.

The use of cameras & other monitoring devices proved that the viewers in the study watched significantly more of the commercials than they claimed in initial interviews & that they time-shifted fewer programs than they thought they did.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by panerd

I am a TIVO owner and if I was asked in a survey if I watched commercials I would say yes. Why? So they don't try and find other bullshit ways to shove advertising at me. Maybe nobody else thinks like me, but maybe that is some of the reason why there is such a high percentage of TIVO users who say they watch commercials.

I would absolutely do the same.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Kidnapped has been canceled. Apparently they are going to wrap it up in the 13th episode.

Damn. that sucks. I tought it was a pretty good show.

Where you read that at?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The commerical/TiVO discussion is sort of irrelevant to this discussion.

It is 10000% relevant.

The TV shows we see are based around what gets ratings. They care about ratings because they care about what makes people see commercials.

If you claim that commercial discussions have nothing to do with what new shows are being made, then you have a supreme lack of understanding of how network TV works. I don't believe that you do, because I think you're a smart guy... My point is that what new shows are made are based around what they can make the most money off of, which revolves around ratings, which revolves around commercials.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Damn. that sucks. I tought it was a pretty good show.

Where you read that at?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/1...eut/index.html

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by wade moore

It is 10000% relevant.

The TV shows we see are based around what gets ratings. They care about ratings because they care about what makes people see commercials.

If you claim that commercial discussions have nothing to do with what new shows are being made, then you have a supreme lack of understanding of how network TV works. I don't believe that you do, because I think you're a smart guy... My point is that what new shows are made are based around what they can make the most money off of, which revolves around ratings, which revolves around commercials.

I know exactly how network TV works. My dad works in network TV and has for years. You're exactly right about it, it's just that the commercial thing went outside the scope of the "argument" in this case, or at least the one I was trying to make which was:

1. TiVo has had an affect on the success of serial shows.

2. Successful serial shows breeds more serials shows.

As JiGMA explained above, it's not like the networks just throw out all the numbers when it comes to DVRs. Also, as I mentioned above, the DVR (I think) has had an impact on the success of these types of shows outside those people (the 12% or whatever) who own them.

I don't disagree with you at all on the commerical point, I just think that DVRs have had some impact on the success (ratings) of these types shows.

[Joe]

looks like another serialized drama is going to be dropped as well, Ray Liotta's "Smith" on CBS

http://www.usatoday.com/life/televis...-delayed_x.htm

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

As JiGMA explained above, it's not like the networks just throw out all the numbers when it comes to DVRs.

But they also aren't getting any real benefit from them yet either. That doesn't totally discount your point here, I'm just saying.

In the overall discussion, I'm surprised that at least one other factor hasn't been mentioned yet. In addition to the success of 24, it should not be discounted that the networks looked at the success of the telenovela format on Spanish-language networks & considered that as well.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But they also aren't getting any real benefit from them yet either. That doesn't totally discount your point here, I'm just saying.

In the overall discussion, I'm surprised that at least one other factor hasn't been mentioned yet. In addition to the success of 24, it should not be discounted that the networks looked at the success of the telenovela format on Spanish-language networks & considered that as well.

For me, it's because I had no clue about the telenovela ...

As for the bigger discussion here.. I still just don't understand how you can say that we've seen an increase in serialized drama because of DVR. I'm sorry, but this follows the trend of sitcoms in the 80's after several were successful, TV Game Shows in the late 80's, Reality shows in the 00's, Epic Drama's in Movies after LotR. This is just standard "if X gets good ratings let's make 10x of them".

Meh, sorry, I just don't buy that DVR is dictating what new shows com on TV.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by wade moore

For me, it's because I had no clue about the telenovela ...

As for the bigger discussion here.. I still just don't understand how you can say that we've seen an increase in serialized drama because of DVR. I'm sorry, but this follows the trend of sitcoms in the 80's after several were successful, TV Game Shows in the late 80's, Reality shows in the 00's, Epic Drama's in Movies after LotR. This is just standard "if X gets good ratings let's make 10x of them".

Meh, sorry, I just don't buy that DVR is dictating what new shows com on TV.

I am not going so far as to say it's happening because of DVR, I am merely saying that DVRs have had an affect on people's viewing habits and one of those affects has been to make these types of shows easier to watch and, hence, more successful.

If you have a DVR, you miss an ep, no worries, it's recorded. You don't have a DVR, you miss an ep, no worries you head over to your buddy's who recorded it and watch the ep there. That's all. It's one factor in the success. Not the end all be all of it.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Joe

looks like another serialized drama is going to be dropped as well, Ray Liotta's "Smith" on CBS

I was really excited about that show, but it turned out to be a completely over-stylized, hackneyed piece of crap...

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I am not going so far as to say it's happening because of DVR, I am merely saying that DVRs have had an affect on people's viewing habits and one of those affects has been to make these types of shows easier to watch and, hence, more successful.

If you have a DVR, you miss an ep, no worries, it's recorded. You don't have a DVR, you miss an ep, no worries you head over to your buddy's who recorded it and watch the ep there. That's all. It's one factor in the success. Not the end all be all of it.

That actually does make a lot of sense. Before I had a DVR if I missed an episode of a serialized drama (like 24), I were screwed and it made it hard to get back into the fold because I missed a lot of story. I'd have to read it online or something. Before DVRs and before summaries online, I'm sure it was really bad. With DVRs you don't have to worry. Set to records first runs of a particular show and watch them whenever you want. It allows serial dramas to have a better chance... though at the same time, commerical revenue may end up being lower because of the DVR phenomenon of fast forwarding commericals.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

... I am merely saying that DVRs have had an affect on people's viewing habits and one of those affects has been to make these types of shows easier to watch and, hence, more successful.

Which brings up another interesting tidbit from some of these early surveys (albeit one that's completely tangental). The figures on "time-shifting", recording it now to watch it later, run as low as 7% of all viewing (IIRC, the high was something like 35% of viewing). Meaning basically that the DVR's may not be affecting people's actual viewing habits all that much.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Which brings up another interesting tidbit from some of these early surveys (albeit one that's completely tangental). The figures on "time-shifting", recording it now to watch it later, run as low as 7% of all viewing (IIRC, the high was something like 35% of viewing). Meaning basically that the DVR's may not be affecting people's actual viewing habits all that much.

I would also think that this is even more true with the more popular shows. I think that many people would have wanted to watch the season premiere of Lost live, whereas a mid-season episode of Vanished is something less than appointment viewing.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

They told them to wrap up production with the 13th episode.

What are you? jbmagic? Thanks for the spoiler pal!

[Daimyo]

Hopefully as DVRs become more popular they will have the effect of making commercials more interesting. I almost always fast foward commercials, but if I hear of one that is done very well, like the new Nike high school football commercial, I'll stop and watch it (or YouTube it).

Whereas five years ago they could put crap out there and have at least some effect (barring bathroom breaks and channel flips) now its only the top 5% or so that has any chance of making an effect.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

Hopefully as DVRs become more popular they will have the effect of making commercials more interesting. I almost always fast foward commercials, but if I hear of one that is done very well, like the new Nike high school football commercial, I'll stop and watch it (or YouTube it).

Whereas five years ago they could put crap out there and have at least some effect (barring bathroom breaks and channel flips) now its only the top 5% or so that has any chance of making an effect.

Personal I think it means more invasion of our shows.. between product placements and the annoying psudeo-transluscent ads in the corners.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Personal I think it means more invasion of our shows.. between product placements and the annoying psudeo-transluscent ads in the corners.

Ding Ding Ding
Give that man a cee-gar.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ding Ding Ding
Give that man a cee-gar.

Although apparently I need spellcheck when posting that early in the day...

[larrymcg421]

I work nights Sunday-Thursday, so the DVR is necessary for me to watch many of my shows (or sporting events).

As for commercials, it depends on the timeframe. On nights where I watch alot of TV I will skip through the commercials. Since it only takes me 22 minutes to watch a half hour show or 44 minutes for an hour show, it increases the number of shows I can watch in my spare time. With football games it gets even better as I can skip time in between plays. However, sometimes I still get in the habit of using the commercials to get something to eat or go to the bathroom, or if I see a potentially interesting commercial, I might stop to watch it.

[Abe Sargent]

To me it seems like there are two types of serialized TV:

Old school, soap opera style with an ongiong plot that continues and continues but does not have a beginning, middle or end. ER is this type of show:

Nouveau, novel style with a beginning, middle and end: Began by Babylon 5, there has been a rush of other shows from Lost, 24, and others that appear to have a set plot.

These are different styles of TV, and while Dallas, Guilding Light and similar shows have been around for ages, the recent trend is a different type of show. I like the Babylon 5 effect.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Personal I think it means more invasion of our shows.. between product placements and the annoying psudeo-transluscent ads in the corners.

Oh, most definately. Product placement will probably go up and you'll see more ads jump up from the corner or side of the screen.

[Joe]

Here is the official word on a few shows:

NEW YORK (AP) -- Here's something Ray Liotta and Virginia Madsen won't be putting on their resumes: stars of the first new TV show to bite the dust this fall.

"Smith," the Tuesday night CBS drama with Liotta leading a band of high-stakes thieves, is off the schedule, the network said Friday. It will be replaced temporarily by reruns of "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" and "Criminal Minds."

Networks don't like to use the word "cancel" -- it sounds so messy -- but the show's producers have been given no promise that it will return.

Its last episode had only 8.4 million viewers on Tuesday, according to Nielsen Media Research. It faced tough competition in the time slot from NBC's "Law & Order: SVU" and ABC's "Boston Legal."

Meanwhile, NBC announced the sort-of cancellation of its Wednesday night serial comedy "Kidnapped," which stars Jeremy Sisto. NBC gambled by putting the show in the time slot held for a long time by "Law & Order," and it failed miserably.

"Kidnapped" will be moved to the television purgatory of Saturday nights, starting October 21. Its producers have been told to wrap up the serialized drama's story lines by the end of the show's 13-episode order, NBC said.

Networks have been wrestling with how to satisfy fans who've gotten involved in serialized dramas when the ratings are poor enough for the show to be canceled.

Fox has put its new comedy "Happy Hour" on hiatus, but insists it will return.

[Daimyo]

Product placement is the obvious trend, but it doesn't bother me as long as it fits in the universe of the show. Who cares if the AI judges drink from giant coke cups? If a Pepsi machine suddenly shows up on Lost that might be a problem...

[Honolulu_Blue]

Well, perhaps this serialized drama run could be coming to an end...


Serial Dramas Become a Tough Sell
Serial dramas are suddenly finding audiences steering away from them, with CBS yanking Smith, starring Ray Liotta and Virginia Madsen, from its schedule, NBC moving Kidnapped, starring Jeremy Sisto and Delroy Lindo, to the graveyard of Saturday night and ABC losing five million viewers for Lost. San Francisco Chronicle TV columnist Tim Goodman observed today (Monday) that ABC's plan to put Lost on hiatus for 13 weeks beginning next month in order to avoid repeats might backfire. (It's being replaced during that period by yet another serial drama, Day Break, starring Taye Diggs and Adam Baldwin.) "What if five million more people don't come back?" Goodman asks.

[rkmsuf]

what possible reason is there to put Lost on hiatus for 3 months after only 4 or 5 episodes?

What am I missing strategy wise here?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

what possible reason is there to put Lost on hiatus for 3 months after only 4 or 5 episodes?

What am I missing strategy wise here?

Because last year a ton or people were pissed that there were so many repeats in between new episodes. It would be new ep, new ep, new ep, repeat, repeat, new ep, repeat, repeat, repeat, etc. The people were frustrated.

I don't think a 3 month hiatus is a better solution. If anything, they could just try and do what Fox does with "24". Have it debut in January and have it run straight through, no repeats/no hiatus. That seems to really work well for that show. Lost is slightly different, but I think it would keep interest in it for the duration.

Then again, I don't run a network. Though they'd be better if I did.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Because last year a ton or people were pissed that there were so many repeats in between new episodes. It would be new ep, new ep, new ep, repeat, repeat, new ep, repeat, repeat, repeat, etc. The people were frustrated.

I don't think a 3 month hiatus is a better solution. If anything, they could just try and do what Fox does with "24". Have it debut in January and have it run straight through, no repeats/no hiatus. That seems to really work well for that show. Lost is slightly different, but I think it would keep interest in it for the duration.

Then again, I don't run a network. Though they'd be better if I did.

so then the question is why does there have to be repeats if you start in October?

can't they just go straight through with 20 new shows?

[ISiddiqui]

I don't watch Lost, but I heard a lot of people got frustrated during Season 2 with it. That (as well as the hiatus) may be a reason it lost 5 million viewers and not just disgust with a serialized drama.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

so then the question is why does there have to be repeats if you start in October?

can't they just go straight through with 20 new shows?

You certainly could, though traditional shows run from Sept/Oct through May with sweeps in Nov., Feb., and May. I guess ABC feels like it doesn't want to buck this trend, though if they are showing no new Lost episodes in Nov. it sounds like they sort of are.

Are straight, 20 week run through October is tricky because of the holidays, but something close to that could be possible.

I guess the question becomes, what do you air in that time slot after the show is done? Re-runs? Another show?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

You certainly could, though traditional shows run from Sept/Oct through May with sweeps in Nov., Feb., and May. I guess ABC feels like it doesn't want to buck this trend, though if they are showing no new Lost episodes in Nov. it sounds like they sort of are.

Are straight, 20 week run through October is tricky because of the holidays, but something close to that could be possible.

I guess the question becomes, what do you air in that time slot after the show is done? Re-runs? Another show?

Should they really be concerned with the leftovers after a mega show like Lost has been? I guess they are with the schedule they have.

[wade moore]

H_B, Everyone must have thrown away their TiVo's ...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Have it debut in January and have it run straight through, no repeats/no hiatus.

Problem was, in this case at least, that the network wanted the lead-in from Lost to help build their new show The Nine.

Whether that works out for them remains to be seen, but the first week was not what they had hoped for as the new show lost nearly 40% of the inherited audience. To put that in perspective, that's 10% more than Invasion failed to hold last year en route to its eventual cancellation.

[Ksyrup]

To echo what H_B posted:


"Broadcast networks have asked for a serious commitment this fall -- and so far viewers are balking.

The five top broadcasters introduced 12 new hourlong dramas that are serials, mysteries or otherwise advance a larger story each week. They join several hits that already fall into that category, such as Lost, Prison Break and Desperate Housewives.

So far only two such shows, NBC's Heroes and CBS' Jericho, can rightly be said to have exceeded expectations. CBS' Smith has already been canceled and NBC's Kidnapped was told the end is near.

Other slow starters include ABC's The Nine and Brothers & Sisters, NBC's Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip and a handful that need only a glance at their titles to see the obvious debt to Fox's 24: Standoff, Vanished and Runaway.

Last week, for the second straight week, the two most popular shows on prime-time TV -- ABC's Grey's Anatomy and CBS' CSI: Crime Scene Investigation -- aired in the same time slot."

[Ksyrup]

Oh, and my wife's gonna be pissed when I tell her about the Lost hiatus. I saw half the episode last night; first time I've really watched it. The problem with these shows is there's almost no way to add new viewers, so when you lose some, you have no one to replace them with. It's not like with the old stale sitcoms, where they could add a baby and interest new viewers. I was completely "lost" last night...and had no interest in having my wife try to explain 2 years' worth of backstory to make it make sense.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Last week, for the second straight week, the two most popular shows on prime-time TV -- ABC's Grey's Anatomy and CBS' CSI: Crime Scene Investigation -- aired in the same time slot."

This is incredible to me.

Edit: Not that it's these two shows, but that two shows in the same slot are #1 and #2. The number of people watching TV at that time must be overwhelming.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by wade moore

This is incredible to me.

Edit: Not that it's these two shows, but that two shows in the same slot are #1 and #2. The number of people watching TV at that time must be overwhelming.

It's the magic of TiVO!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

To echo what H_B posted:


"Broadcast networks have asked for a serious commitment this fall -- and so far viewers are balking.

The five top broadcasters introduced 12 new hourlong dramas that are serials, mysteries or otherwise advance a larger story each week. They join several hits that already fall into that category, such as Lost, Prison Break and Desperate Housewives.

So far only two such shows, NBC's Heroes and CBS' Jericho, can rightly be said to have exceeded expectations. CBS' Smith has already been canceled and NBC's Kidnapped was told the end is near.

Other slow starters include ABC's The Nine and Brothers & Sisters, NBC's Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip and a handful that need only a glance at their titles to see the obvious debt to Fox's 24: Standoff, Vanished and Runaway.

Last week, for the second straight week, the two most popular shows on prime-time TV -- ABC's Grey's Anatomy and CBS' CSI: Crime Scene Investigation -- aired in the same time slot."

Sad, indeed, though the bolded part, at least, makes me very happy. It's the only new show that I've committed to watching. I tried Jericho, but didn't like it. Yay for Heroes!

While a lot of these dramas are failing, are there any new shows (other than Heroes and Jericho) that are particularly doing well? New sitcoms? New reality shows? New procedural dramas?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

It's the magic of TiVO!

And, right on cue ...

http://www.medialifemagazine.com/art...t_index_31.asp
Ratings haven’t been what NBC had hoped for acclaimed drama “Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip,” but there’s at least one place where it’s a top-10 show – on TiVo. The show was the sixth-most-TiVo’d show the week ended Oct. 7, according to the company, with 14 percent of TiVo users recording the show. That confirms that while the show’s audience may be limited, it’s limited to an affluent demographic that’s long been NBC’s staple, those people wealthy enough to afford a TiVo. (Nielsen does include digital video recording device viewing in its ratings if the show is watched within a week.) The top five most TiVo-ed show for the week ending Oct. 7 were, in order: ABC’s "Grey's Anatomy," ABC’s "Desperate Housewives," ABC’s "Lost," CBS’s "CSI" and CBS’s "Survivor: Cook Islands." ABC's "The Nine," which debuted with a relatively weak showing out of “Lost” last week, ranked 15th. One reason may be that "Nine" has to compete with CBS’s "CSI: NY" in the Wednesday 10 p.m. timeslot, and viewers may have simply chosen to tape the former and watch the latter as it aired live.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Oh, and my wife's gonna be pissed when I tell her about the Lost hiatus. I saw half the episode last night; first time I've really watched it. The problem with these shows is there's almost no way to add new viewers, so when you lose some, you have no one to replace them with. It's not like with the old stale sitcoms, where they could add a baby and interest new viewers. I was completely "lost" last night...and had no interest in having my wife try to explain 2 years' worth of backstory to make it make sense.

It certainly is an investment. I know quite a few people who have become "new viewers" to the show, but it mainly involved going out and buying/renting the DVDs. I missed the first season of "Lost" because I was overseas. I borrowed a tape from a friend, loved it, and then bought the DVDs to catch up in time for Season 2. It's really the only way.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Sad, indeed, though the bolded part, at least, makes me very happy. It's the only new show that I've committed to watching. I tried Jericho, but didn't like it. Yay for Heroes!

While a lot of these dramas are failing, are there any new shows (other than Heroes and Jericho) that are particularly doing well? New sitcoms? New reality shows? New procedural dramas?

I think Ugly Betty beat Survivor last week.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I think Ugly Betty beat Survivor last week.

Yes & No.

Yes, in Total Households (10,654,000 to 10,485,000)
No, in Total Viewers 2+ (14,264,000 to 15,829,000)