Chuck Klosterman Page 2 Argument against Div 1A Playoff

[digamma]

What Klosterman said.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I had a pretty similar viewing pattern as Troy, except I watched Michigan/USC because Michigan was playing and didn't see any of Wake Forest/Louisville. It had no appeal to me at all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

What teams do have that sort of cachet now? Penn State used to (IMO...well, couple decades ago maybe), but doesn't anymore. Miami and FSU do, though a couple more years like they've had and they might not. Some might say Alabama, but they seem to be pretty pedestrian over the past couple decades. Nebraska isn't what it once was. Besides Florida, Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Texas and Okalahoma, who we talking here? (and as a disclaimer: I can't really much stand any of these teams)

(I'm sure regionally some will say UGA, Tennessee, and probably every SEC school except Vandy. In the past 20 seasons, I can't say any stands out any much more in my mind than LSU though.)

Actually, Penn State against the right team (such as the Paterno/Bowden Bowl last year) still has that ability to draw. Miami & FSU haven't lost it yet. Alabama & Nebraska are probably good examples of teams in need of a good run to hang onto/regain their status. Florida does fine, as does (to my disgust) UGA. Tennessee less so in terms of television nationally (and your Vandy example also forget the two MS schools & Kentucky).

There's also a study by the Wall Street Journal last year that showed Oregon & Texas A&M as above average TV draws for bowl games. However that study seemed to have omitted details about who those teams were playing in those bowls -- a list that included, guess who? Yep.
Texas, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, and FSU.

This year's most-watched regular season games probably provide some insight.

Michigan/Ohio State ... OSU/Texas ... Cal/USC ... FSU/Miami ... ND/Michigan State (as a regional game) ... ND/GT ... OSU/Iowa. The only other game to draw an audience over 5 million? Penn State/ND.


Full disclosure -- WVU/Louisville just missed that list, drawing a Thursday night record for ESPN with 4.9 million viewers. But that seems to argue in favor of a BCS bid meaning more than a lot of us think as much as anything else.

Primetime for several of those games certainly didn't hurt their numbers, but primetime on the least watched TV night of the week (Saturday) doesn't help them all that much either compared to something like Mon night vs Mon afternoon.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by MikeVick7

Bowl games, no matter what the size, can be huge for recruiting too because it gives a lot of these teams a chance to be on national TV for possibly the first time all year.

And even for established teams like my Huskers. The win against Michigan in the Alamo Bowl was huge after struggling through 2005.

And if you had a 4-6 team playoff, you would still have had the bowl game and the win over Michigan. I just don't see how a limited playoff takes the bloom off of the bowl games for the other teams that don't make it into the playoff. It would seem to me to best of both worlds. In addition, regular season games would still be huge because it may only take one loss or two to knock you out of a 4-team playoff for instance.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Not that I'm complaining, but I wonder which topic gets brought up more; is it college football's postseason or Michael Vick?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Not that I'm complaining, but I wonder which topic gets brought up more; is it college football's postseason or Michael Vick?

They have something in common. They both share this sense of having the potential to be great, but somehow being just a little bit broken and ending up as merely "pretty good."

And they both have the sense of being easily improved, but when you really start to examine them, you can't quite put your finger on something that is 100% guaranteed to make them better. That greatness is always just out of reach, but tantalizing you just the same.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

They have something in common. They both share this sense of having the potential to be great, but somehow being just a little bit broken and ending up as merely "pretty good."

And they both have the sense of being easily improved, but when you really start to examine them, you can't quite put your finger on something that is 100% guaranteed to make them better. That greatness is always just out of reach, but tantalizing you just the same.

Oh, you mean like Alyssa Milano! I got it!

[Izulde]

I love the bowl games.

When you win a bowl game, your season feels like it was a pretty darn good one, all in all.

When you lose a playoff game, there's always a gray cloud hanging over everything.

[JonInMiddleGA]

These aren't complete (hard to find them all in one place right now it seems) but I thought since we talked about the audience sizes for various games I'd add these to this thread. I clipped out some Disney stuff but left a couple of non-college football items in the list just to add some perspective

Rankings for the top 15 programs on cable networks as compiled by Nielsen Media Research for the week of Dec. 25-31. Day and start time (EST) are in parentheses.

1. NFL Football: N.Y. Jets vs. Miami (Monday, 8:30 p.m.), ESPN, 7.26 million homes, 11.08 million viewers.

2. College Football: Texas vs. Iowa (Saturday, 4:29 p.m.), ESPN, 5.52 million homes, 7.79 million viewers. Note: This sets a new viewership record for bowl games on ESPN, breaking the mark set by the Alamo Bowl last season featuring Michigan vs Nebraska.

3. College Football: Georgia vs. Virginia Tech (Saturday, 8:06 p.m.), ESPN, 4.4 million homes, 6.47 million viewers.

4. College Football: Florida St. vs. UCLA (Wednesday, 7:54 p.m.), ESPN, 4.13 million homes, 5.59 million viewers.

5. "Sportscenter" (Saturday, 4:11 p.m.), ESPN, 4.01 million homes, 5.39 million viewers.

6. College Football: Texas A&M vs. California (Thursday, 8:07 p.m.), ESPN, 3.78 million homes, 5.04 million viewers.

7. College Football: Navy vs. Boston College (Saturday, 12:59 p.m.), ESPN, 3.56 million homes, 4.57 million viewers.

9. "Monday Night Countdown" (Monday, 8 p.m.), ESPN, 3.23 million homes, 4.93 million viewers.

11. College Football: South Carolina vs. Houston (Friday, 4:36 p.m.), ESPN, 2.99 million homes, 4.09 million viewers.

12. College Football: Purdue vs. Maryland (Friday, 8:21 p.m.), ESPN, 2.75 million homes, 3.78 million viewers.

14. College Football: Oklahoma St. vs. Alabama (Thursday, 4:24 p.m.), ESPN, 2.73 million homes, 3.55 million viewers.

[cthomer5000]

The ludicrous Sgt. Pepper argument aside, Im kind of in the camp that i think most "true" college fans dont really want a playoff system.

[Kodos]

Now we'll get to the bottom of this!

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...ad.php?t=55834

[Cork]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Yep. I was ecstatic with Wisconsin's season, they got to go out on top - Capital One Bowl Champs again. Not that it wouldn't be nice to play in the Orange Bowl or the Fiesta Bowl, but it's a hell of a lot better than losing in a playoff.

I am about one of the biggest Badger fans around and I would trade the ability to actually compete for a national championship over playing in a crappy meaningless bowl game 1000% of the time. If they lose in a playoff, so be it. At least they got to take their best shot.

I wonder if the bowl game supporters would be in favor of scrapping the NCAA college basketball tournament and just letting the top 2 ranked teams play for the chanpionship?

-Cork

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm a pretty avid follower. I watch a lot of football on a yearly basis and enjoy watching all teams. Even watch a lot of bowl games. Hell, I watch High School football or the lower college divisions.

I want a playoff. Badly.

I think there are plenty of avid fans who want a playoff, even if we aren't seeing them in this thread.

Of course only IMTG and Huck know about football here anyway, so until they chime in with their opinions, this thread is worthless.

I agree with everything you said in this post. I consider myself an avid fan, although I certainly follow the bigger conferences the most. I also want a playoff badly. I won't reiterate the reasons why as I think they are mostly detailed here. Also, I honestly don't think the playoffs would decrease my enjoyment of other bowl games. However, I admit that I never watch the NIT but watch every NCAA tournament game that my work schedule allows.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Cork

I wonder if the bowl game supporters would be in favor of scrapping the NCAA college basketball tournament and just letting the top 2 ranked teams play for the chanpionship?

If that would happen, I might actually watch regular season college basketball games. As it stands now, they're all virtually meaningless.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by VPI97

If that would happen, I might actually watch regular season college basketball games. As it stands now, they're all virtually meaningless.

Again, we agree. I don't actually start to pay attention to college basketball until the conference tourneys start. I pay attention to college football every month of the year.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's iffy at best. Remember, with basketball "Cinderella" is cute & cuddly up to about the Sweet 16 but beyond that there appeal dips below the averages.

And the games would have looked just lovely in front of the empty seats that many playoff scenarios are certain to provide.

Meanwhile, for cuervo (just to avoid an unneeded dola) -- I don't believe LSU fits into the category of "established powers" at all. Ranked 10 times in the past 20 seasons, and top 10 in only 3 of those same 20. That's not meant as a knock on them (you'll know those when you see them), that's just not the sort of standard I'm referring to. Frankly, not many teams have that sort of cachet.

While I respect your opinion in matters of TV ratings, I disagree. I strongly believe that a 8 or even 16 team playoff in college football would generate HUGE ratings as every game where there are significantly more casual fans than college basketball. Now, if college football went to a 64 team tournament or even a 32 team tournament I think that would dilute the importance of the regular season too much and would hurt ratings for regular season games. However, a 4, 8, or even 16 team tournament would have a lower percentage of teams making the tournament and would aid in retaining the importance of the regular season while making for an exciting (very likely) high rating post season.

[Cork]

There is definately room for an 8 team playoff and plenty of regular bowl games. We pretty much have this now with the BCS bowl games and the non-BCS bowl games. The only thing that needs to be done is to link the BCS bowls games together to form a National Championship tournament.

-Cork

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Cork

I am about one of the biggest Badger fans around and I would trade the ability to actually compete for a national championship over playing in a crappy meaningless bowl game 1000% of the time. If they lose in a playoff, so be it. At least they got to take their best shot.

I wonder if the bowl game supporters would be in favor of scrapping the NCAA college basketball tournament and just letting the top 2 ranked teams play for the chanpionship?

-Cork

No, because it's an entirely different sport. With over 300 teams in D-1 college basketball vs 119 or thereabouts for college football, a tournament is pretty much a necessity.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by VPI97

If that would happen, I might actually watch regular season college basketball games. As it stands now, they're all virtually meaningless.

But that doesn't translate to football. With a very small playoff system (4-6 teams), the regular season still means a ton because one or two losses in the regular season could knock you out of the playoff.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

But that doesn't translate to football. With a very small playoff system (4-6 teams), the regular season still means a ton because one or two losses in the regular season could knock you out of the playoff.

4-6 team playoff system wouldn't stop people from complaining that mid-majors were getting the shaft. I thought that was the big beef with the current system.