Top Chef Season 4

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Top Chef is all about making them cook around ingredients, or without certain ingredients, or with jaguar fetuses, or in an iron lung, while all Gordon Ramsey really wants is for you to COOK THE FUCKING RISOTTO, YOU DONKEY!! Night after night, day after day. And really, isn't that actually much more representative of restaurant life in reality?

I would argue that Hell's Kitchen has even less to do with running a restaurant than Top Chef. I don't think there is any argument that the worst chef on Top Chef is a thousand times better than the best on Hell's Kitchen. And Hell's Kitchen is nothing about being a chef -- it's a show about being a line cook. Completely different from Top Chef.

I'd have to go back and see but it feels to me there have been roughly the same number of team challenges as in the past. I think they have favored team challenges more than duo challenges. To me, the team challenges in past seasons have absolutely been where the show was decided because it was in team challenges that you get to see leadership and authority, which are essentially skills of a chef and completely missing on HK, which is just Ramsey cursing at everyone.

The only disappointing thing this year is that everyone knows that the team challenges are about leadership and everyone has done whatever they can to avoid being tagged as team leader because if you fail as leader you're gone. You almost have to force them to take a leadership role in the team challenges because no one wants to gamble and lose. Last season they had a challenge where the winner of the quickfire got to pick the team leader.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yeah, I don't get the Richard hate at all. Especially when he won that one QF challenge, then actively participated in giving great ideas that were used in the main challenge that ended up winning the week. Compare that to the bitchfest that ensued after that one chick won immunity and the events that lead to Peppermint Patty's GF getting kicked off.

My dislike of Richard started in episode one simply because he came across so arrogant. But that has eased with me and he's easily one of my three favorites at this point from purely a likability standpoint.

Originally Posted by thesloppy

This is true. I guess my point is that up until the endgame it's not so much 'Top Chef' as it is 'Chef Who Can Cook Best Under Goofy Conditions'....which certainly isn't to say that's not an impressive and totally critical skill, necessary to being a good chef, but I think it can result in knocking out cooks who might be better 'pure' cooks, in favor of people who just better adjust to the games rules. But you're totally right that's an obvious design point of this, and all reality shows, and without some aspect of a game it would be pretty damn boring: "I'm going to make a salad" "OK, that was good."

I agree with this last part -- if there were no limits or rules, you would absolutely get greatest hits dishes with no creativity or challenge.

I still don't get people who think that Top Chef has goofy conditions compared to Hell's Kitchens, where the staple preliminary challenge is cutting chicken or filleting fish. Boring. Heck, even Hell's Kitchen is stealing Top Chef challenges, like the blind taste test.

I think even the quickfires, where there are the most rules and restraints, test a chef's abilities to think quickly and creatively. In season one there was so much grief -- mostly from the chef's -- about the convenience store challenge, but they have really eliminated the gimmicky quickfires.

The most gimmick quickfire this season was the Uncle Ben's challenge -- and I'll agree that anytime the sponsors get involved, it's a bad challenge. But I don't see anything wrong with challenging chef's to come up with a dish using no more than five ingredients.

Since we're all sports fans, I'd argue that the challenges on Top Chef have as much relevance to being a chef as cone drills, shuttle drills, etc. have in sports. In sports, those drills and challenges are critical to developing skills and helping identify talent and ability.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I would argue that Hell's Kitchen has even less to do with running a restaurant than Top Chef. I don't think there is any argument that the worst chef on Top Chef is a thousand times better than the best on Hell's Kitchen.

Absolutely, fucking undeniably. The people on Hell's Kitchen are completely and obviously ridiculous.

And Hell's Kitchen is nothing about being a chef -- it's a show about being a line cook. Completely different from Top Chef.

To a great degree, I think you're totally right, up until the endgame, the people in Hell's Kitchen don't really have much if any control over their own destiny at all...but I guess that's really the root of my complaint (and it's the weakest complaint ever, as absolutely I love both these shows). That they're both kind of goofy up until the endgame, when in each show they ARE given a chance to display the best of their abilities, in the best of conditions (relatively speaking)

....but at that point, the raw chances are pretty good that the chef who MIGHT cook best under those, supposedly ultimate criteria, was long ago kicked off the show because he/she didn't make the best dish out of endangered animal parts, couldn't handle being yelled at for 6 solid hours, or because two douchebags from the same home town conspired to get rid of them.

[thesloppy]

I guess what I'm ham-handedly trying to get at it here is:

If we the fans and the producers and the judges of these shows all agree that having real people cooking in the best of conditions IS the ultimate judge and the ultimate reward for having watched the show all year, then why DO they put them through all the stupid challenges? Couldn't we just watch all of the same political maneuvering and comedy, but with people actually cooking things they LIKE and everybody producing the BEST of their food, rather than spending the majority of the shows essentially forcing people to cook the food they least want to cook with. I imagine that the producers would argue "It's too boring"...but that explanation falls apart if it's exciting enough to serve as the finale, and what all the viewers are waiting for.

[terpkristin]

Hmm, I'm not a fan of the Restaurant Wars (and Wedding Wars)-style challenges. I know that they are probably more relevant for those competitors, as they quite often want to open their own restaurant, but I enjoy seeing the finesse of the cooking, I don't care about the melodrama of staying up for hours or of finding the right tablecloth.

This season has been decent, though, I stand by what I said earlier, I think it'll be Richard (and I like him pretty alright), but I'd like to see Stephanie do well. And I hate Dale.

/tk

[General Mike]

Send all these people home.

Spoiler

Bourdain can stay

[kcchief19]

Bourdain definitely rocks. I still say boot Padma and rotate Bourdain and Allen in with Tom and Gail as the permanent judges plus a guest judge each week. Bourdain is simply terrific.

Really don't see why anybody has a beef with Richard, Antonia or Stephanie. Richard and Antonia both have great resumes and track records, and Stephanie clearly can cook. Lisa and Dale have rotten attitudes but are decent chefs. Spike is ordinary and really doesn't belong. As long as either Spike or Lisa go next week, it's cool.

Three top chefs remaining are head and shoulders above the rest.

[thesloppy]

I was so happy to see Tony judging this week! Yay! Restaurant wars and Bourdain. I agree with kc that I'd love a judges table of Bourdain and Allen and chef Tom (Gail I can give or take...bring in the bitter old fortune teller lady from the Japanese Iron Chef).

I can only imagine Lisa's day is coming very soon, the tighter things get, the more she keeps talking, yet her cooking seems to be getting worse and worse.

[MJ4H]

I was surprised the booted Dale over Lisa. Was it just because he was executive chef for that challenge? It seemed like Lisa was the weak link all night.

My wife spent the whole episode berating me because I wouldn't take her to an Anthony Bourdain book signing like a year ago or something. I frankly had no idea wtf she was talking about.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

I was surprised the booted Dale over Lisa. Was it just because he was executive chef for that challenge? It seemed like Lisa was the weak link all night.

I would think being the executive chef had alot to do with it. The captain has to go down with the ship, and their restaurant was the

Butterscotch scallops? what a great idea.

[Coffee Warlord]

Lisa has just been consistently bad over the last MANY weeks. And she's entirely unlikable. Kill her.

[Thomkal]

Although there was good reason to send Dale home last night, he has shown more potential than Lisa. He's won a few challenges and deserved to stay over the person who messed up both her dishes.

I can't see Spike or Lisa overtaking the other three now unless one of them just completely messes up.

[timmynausea]

I'm with everybody that Lisa is the worst. I must be in the minority, however, in that I don't really like Bourdain. He actually wasn't bad last night, but in the past I've found him pretty annoying.

[JeeberD]

They've (the judges) said in the past that they only go off of the current challenge's results...past performance doesn't play into their consideration on who goes home.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

They've (the judges) said in the past that they only go off of the current challenge's results...past performance doesn't play into their consideration on who goes home.

well that's just bs

[DaddyTorgo]

Richard, Antonia, & Stephanie are class. I think Spike will sneak into the final-4 just by virtue of Lisa getting booted next week, which is fine, as long as he doesn't knock off one of the 3 who deserve to be there as it tightens up.

[Barkeep49]

Restaraunt Wars knocked off Tre last year and I think he was more talented than CJ.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

I'm with everybody that Lisa is the worst. I must be in the minority, however, in that I don't really like Bourdain. He actually wasn't bad last night, but in the past I've found him pretty annoying.

I'm not generally a fan of Bourdain, either, so at least there are 2 of us.

I figured Lisa would get the boot last night, I was quite surprised it was Dale. Lisa better be next. She should've been gone so many times over by now...

/tk

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Restaraunt Wars knocked off Tre last year and I think he was more talented than CJ.

Agree 100%. Tre was clearly the better cook last year, but he was executive chef and was cut for a horrible service.

Dale's an ass, but he seems to be an adequate cook and the best on that team. Spike's a whining backstabbing baby and Lisa is a pain in the ass and hasn't cooked well in weeks.

Lisa should've gone, but with Dale being exec chef, AND making butterscotch scallops (how does that even SOUND good? maybe because they use maple with salmon?), AND the other chefs sucked, he was the obvious choice.

The other team (Richard, Antonia, and Stephanie) are the 3 best left and should be the final 3 barring Lisa or Spike pulling a great dish out of their ass.

[terpkristin]

Anybody want to guess who's going tonight, before the show airs (I have no idea what tonight's challenge is supposed to be)?

I'm guessing it's gotta be Lisa or Spike, but we've already seen one "front-runner" eliminated. I'm thinking that even though he's a horrible chef, Spike will get to stay as Lisa is sent packing.

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

good thing I set the dvr before cracking the bottle

[kcchief19]

I think everyone wants to see Lisa or Spike go. It would be a godsend if the judges decided they both sucked ass and sent them both home.

I just hope the Big 3 make it through. I've put the shows on my iPod and have gone back and rewatched/listened to the earlier episodes. It's been clear from the get go that Richard, Stephanie and Antonia were the class of the crop. Richard has won the most elimination challenges, Antonia has won the most quickfires and Stephanie has won enough of both to be up there with them in total wins. All three also were finalists for the win in the first episode, and no one has won Top Chef without finishing first or second in the first elimination challenge. There's your Top Chef trivia for the day.

[terpkristin]

I wish I could get them on my iPod! I've been watching the previous episodes today (leading up to the new episode) and I'm really tired of Lisa talking about how she's following the rules. I honestly think she's made crappy dishes and tried to stand behind "Well, I followed the rules" too many times (at least in 3 episodes now that I've watched again today).

/tk

[Coffee Warlord]

I cannot believe that no talent assclown Lisa made it.

[kcchief19]

I was rooting for them to boot both Spike and Lisa. Spike is no better than Lisa. I loved it when Tom pointed out that Spike had been on the chopping block seven times and Lisa had been in the bottom five times.

Richard, Stephanie and Antonia are simply so well rounded. I think Richard is the most creative and experienced, Antonia is the most classically skilled and soulful and Stephanie is a good blend of the two. Any of them winning is fine by me. I could really go for a steak right now.

Anyone else think this challenge was a bit of an F-you to Hell's Kitchen, consciously or not? The chefs go into a restaurant to cook with Tom expediting the service and eveything goes flawlessly -- no real falling behind, not screw-ups, no burning the damn risotto. It was nice watching grown-up chefs operate in a kitchen compared to the screw-ups on HK.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I cannot believe that no talent assclown Lisa made it.

I'm so tired of her act during every time she is critiqued. She always has that smug look to go along with her arms crossed.

[Ksyrup]

I'm not reading this thread yet. Still haven't seen last week or this week.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Anyone else think this challenge was a bit of an F-you to Hell's Kitchen, consciously or not? The chefs go into a restaurant to cook with Tom expediting the service and eveything goes flawlessly -- no real falling behind, not screw-ups, no burning the damn risotto. It was nice watching grown-up chefs operate in a kitchen compared to the screw-ups on HK.

Totally agree there.

And yeah. I just want to punch Lisa in the face every time I see her on the chopping block. And I am told my a female coworker that that would not qualify as hitting a woman - we don't think she qualifies as one.

As for the finals. Once they axe Lisa first, I'm pulling for Richard or Stephanie. Steph is just a consistent, quality chef, and she's a local product. Richard, I wanna see what he pulls out of his bag of tricks in the finale. He was at his best when he pulled out the really weirdo shit earlier in the season. Hopefully he goes back to that.

[thesloppy]

Richard just seems like he's on a whole different level than anybody else, even in the smallest details. Just the fact that he called that place a "nationally recognized meat purveyor" last night....who the hell talks like that? Someone who's been cooking fine food for a long time....or someone who's been paid a promotional fee. One or the other.

[Barkeep49]

Or someone who talks in an ornate sort of way.

But I agree that Richard is the favorite, which is a shame cause I've been rooting for Stephanie from the start.

[oliegirl]

I'm a big fan of Stephanie and am really hoping she pulls out a win in the end...there's never been a female to win Top Chef, I think it's time Richard is my second place, and Antonia in third.

[MJ4H]

I'm pulling for Stephanie, too. I remember I picked her out in the opening of the first show and told my wife "that's the kind of person they put in these shows and gets eliminated on the first show." Now, I'm just rooting for her on the comedy factor based on that incredible soul read.

[timmynausea]

I'm rooting for Stephanie as well with Richard 2nd.

[Ksyrup]

Just when I'd convinced myself that I already spend way too much time surfing the net, I run across something like this and realize that if I had spent even more time surfing, I'd have found it sooner.

Amuse-Biatch

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Just when I'd convinced myself that I already spend way too much time surfing the net, I run across something like this and realize that if I had spent even more time surfing, I'd have found it sooner.

Amuse-Biatch

That site is much better than it used to be. Scallopgate is fascinating. There are some stories that are not matching up there.

[Ksyrup]

The Anthony Bourdain quote is freaking awesome!

As for me? I could give a rat's a** who the producers or Bravo want to win or not win . What I've traditionally used the Glad Family of Bags for would probably not make a good commercial. When I read the surprising announcement that Michelob, a beer I don't drink and don't much like, was going to be "sponsoring" my Bravo blog, I advised them that I felt compelled to disappoint them.

[MJ4H]

mmmm GAIL looks FINE tonight. DAAAYUMMM

[MJ4H]

oh how the eff do you boot

Spoiler

antonia

_#)$)@$#$

[Coffee Warlord]

Un. Fucking. Believable.

And did you SEE the little fan poll before that? Wow.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

As for me? I could give a rat's a** who the producers or Bravo want to win or not win . What I've traditionally used the Glad Family of Bags for would probably not make a good commercial. When I read the surprising announcement that Michelob, a beer I don't drink and don't much like, was going to be "sponsoring" my Bravo blog, I advised them that I felt compelled to disappoint them.

It dawned on me last week, that those poor bastards were always drinking some variation of Michelob....no wonder some of them are starting to cook worse.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

oh how the eff do you boot

Spoiler

antonia

_#)$)@$#$

+1

Spoiler

But I did like it when Antonia hugged Stephanie and told her to "kick their asses."

In other news, Spike has apparently been fired by Mai House and replaced by ... Lisa. Spike denies he was fired, but then again he claims that Allen Brothers doesn't carry frozen scallops. I looked at their Web site and you get four 1-pound bags of frozen scallops for $89.95.

Of course two 34 oz. dry aged long bone ribeyes for ... $164.95. Holy schnikes!

[Scoobz0202]

When that stupid fucking cunt made that comment about getting a congratulations at the end I wanted to reach through the fucking screen and strangle the bitch.

You should have gone home, slut. Shut the fuck up.

[General Mike]

Wrong person went home.

[thesloppy]

Lisa really didn't help her fan appeal by using the break to get a '90s bull dyke makeover. Did that look come with a 4X4 truck and the Indigo Girls discography?

Also, as another comparison between Hell's Kitchen and Top Chef: What better?

A news set of high-end kitchen appliances, trips around the world, a brand new car.

OR

Driving 20 minutes to the beach to watch Gordon Ramsey wrestle around with his manservant, Jean Baptiste.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

When that stupid fucking cunt made that comment about getting a congratulations at the end I wanted to reach through the fucking screen and strangle the bitch.

Richard's aside, congratulating her for winning the bronze, was perfect.

[Scoobz0202]

Definitely. Would have been perfect if he had said the to her face.

" Fine. Congratulations on being the second loser. "

[Coffee Warlord]

On the plus side, I did win lunch. Coworker bet on Antonia to win, I bet on Richard.

[Barkeep49]

Antonia? Really? Every story I hear about your work CW makes me wonder about your place of employment.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Antonia? Really? Every story I hear about your work CW makes me wonder about your place of employment.

Well, I wonder about my place of employment all the time.

[oliegirl]

I caught up on this show last night, had 3 back episodes to watch...of course I knew how they ended b/c I'd read this thread, but man - I wanted to bitch slap Lisa when she made that comment at the end, being all bent out of shape b/c Stephanie and Richard didn't congratulate her???? Maybe if she didn't have a huge ass chip on her shoulder and play the attitudinal bitch so well, they would have wanted to congratulate her.

If she wins, I will never ever watch another season of Top Chef. Ever.