Punishment for Tom Brady

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I think you're misreading my answer to the poll. The NFL's suspensions are the softest in the world of sports. Almost everywhere, a doping penalty is 1 or 2 years, the NFL suspends player for just a month for the same misbehavior. Playing around with balls hardness, it's just not important enough of an issue to get me worked up about and in comparison of other violations, it should be punished as such, with a 'much a do about nothing'. Admittedly punishing the biggest name in the game is a signal that the NFL technically disapproves of this behavior, in the end it feels to me that Tom Brady will be scapegoated for something that's most likely done by the majority in the business.

+1

Doping is 4 games and represents both a competitive advantage and a player safety issue. How under-inflating the ball could garner an equal or larger suspension is confusing to me.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Kodos

He did the crime; he should do the time.

MIJB makes a very fair point - people think Brady's offense deserves a worse punishment than taking PEDs?

[jeff061]

Punishment should be for the dishonesty.

Just for deflating balls? That's worth a small fine. Dishonesty is worth a couple games

Originally Posted by AlexB

MIJB makes a very fair point - people think Brady's offense deserves a worse punishment than taking PEDs?

For actively lying and potentially hindering the investigation? Yes. I hope the transcript from the investigation comes out, so we can see if he changed his tune after his presser or if he kept shrugging his shoulders.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

+1

Doping is 4 games and represents both a competitive advantage and a player safety issue. How under-inflating the ball could garner an equal or larger suspension is confusing to me.

They're both integrity-of-the-game issues, or at least, the rules exist nominally because of that notion. Whether you believe over- or under-inflation of the ball actually does impact the integrity of the game any longer (now that each quarterback has their own set of game-use balls) is another matter.

If the NFL still believes that that rule has a tangible impact on the integrity of the game, it should absolutely come down on Brady as hard as it would on a PED offender.

If the NFL does not so believe, and chooses to fine him, that's okay too, but it should change the rule going forward if that's the case.

[claphamsa]

the coverup is always worse than the crime.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

They're both integrity-of-the-game issues, or at least, the rules exist nominally because of that notion. Whether you believe over- or under-inflation of the ball actually does impact the integrity of the game any longer (now that each quarterback has their own set of game-use balls) is another matter.

If the NFL still believes that that rule has a tangible impact on the integrity of the game, it should absolutely come down on Brady as hard as it would on a PED offender.

If the NFL does not so believe, and chooses to fine him, that's okay too, but it should change the rule going forward if that's the case.

PEDs aren't exclusively an integrity-of-the-game issue, though. There is also the player health/safety element.

As for the lying, well, players lie about taking PEDs before and after getting caught all the time, so again I'm confused by why this is such a big deal (comparatively).

[SirFozzie]

Mike Reiss has it right:

Quick-hit thoughts around the New England Patriots - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN

Why do I think this has been made to be a bigger deal than it is? I go back to the Vikings-Panthers game from November, with teams illegally heating footballs on the sideline and simply getting a warning from the NFL, and wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. I go back to the Chargers using an illegal sticky substance on towels in 2012 and getting fined $25,000, and likewise wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. Put the three situations together and only one requires a full-fledged investigation that will cost owners millions of dollars? In the interest of fairness, what am I missing? Add in comments from Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers about his preference for overinflated footballs, and this New York Times story on Eli Manning and his football preparation, and it just seems we've gone off the rails here.

[SirFozzie]

One more interesting read (again, I'm a homer), but there's some holes in the story, including the fact that the referee can't remember which gauge he used at halftime, because there was two, that was almost a half PSI difference between the two needles reading before the game. He thinks he used the high reading one pregame (and the low one at halftime), and the Wells Report disregards this and uses supposition to say it was the other one.

Wells report disregards Anderson’s “best recollection” on a key piece of evidence | ProFootballTalk

[Kodos]

Where's that picture of the Iraqi Information Minister?

[Dutch]

As an outsider to this, and I hate to side with Pats fans, but cant the NFL just refine the rules and move on? I vioted no punishment, btw.

[B & B]

I see a one game suspension and FOFC getting it 'right' as that's the most popular answer.

[AlexB]

I voted fine: I think the whole thing is completely overblown, but there is a rule and it has been broken, so minimum punishment, slap on the wrists, draw up a new procedure or new rules, move on.

[cartman]

4 game suspension handed down, plus $1 million fine and loss of two draft picks, one of them a #1.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...n-deflategate/

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by cartman

4 game suspension handed down, plus $1 million fine and loss of two draft picks, one of them a #1.

Bob Kraft is still waiting for his apology.


But I was right on the 4 game suspension!

[ISiddiqui]

The league was careful to note that the punishment was for the violation itself but also the “failure to cooperate in the subsequent investigation,” and that Brady’s suspension was for “conduct detrimental to the integrity of the NFL.”

Seems fair.

[thesloppy]

Hot damn, that's pretty stiff. I know it's tricky business to try and equate these suspensions, but that seems a little egregious compared to all the off-season action. It gets murky because the NFL shouldn't be responsible for the punishment in criminal cases, and someone who directly subverts their process of investigation, and possibly effects "the sanctity of the game", IS someone who should be punished to the utmost of their abilities...but it's still hard to try and equate/understand how the NFL handles punishment.

On the one hand, it seems fair to punish the Patriots beyond what may seem reasonable, because of their previous actions, but on the other hand Tom Brady wasn't the one recording practices or responsible for the injury report, and it seems like he's being personally punished further for the past actions of the organization.

I could see this quickly turning into another example of where the NFL/Goodell's rush to appeal to public opinion ends up working against them, as some folks who were 100% supportive of punishing Brady & the Patriots end up questioning the process/results rather than supporting, because it all seems so arbitrary and random.

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, Court of Public Opinion strikes again. The suspension's not going to stand under appeal.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Yeah, Court of Public Opinion strikes again. The suspension's not going to stand under appeal.

You mean just like there wasn't going to be any suspension at all?

[TCY Junkie]

I heard the balls were deflated but haven't paid any attention really. 4 games is a shock, didn't even know he did anything wrong. Could someone post a time line or some diagrams of what happened?

[Sharkn20]

Fire Goddell please! No more No Fun League or stupid punishments like this one...

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Yeah, Court of Public Opinion strikes again. The suspension's not going to stand under appeal.

Yeah, the integrity of the game is public outrage. the suspension is always made with the idea the appeal will grand them something.

In this case, it'll be tough because the language of the suspension talks about not only the violation, but the fact Brady didn't cooperate. At most, Brady will get this to two games, but I'm not even convinced he will be able to do that.

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Yeah, Court of Public Opinion strikes again. The suspension's not going to stand under appeal.

Somebody with more knowledge than I fill me in. Kraft can't appeal but Brady can but can he just appeal the suspension or can his appeal cover more than just the games

[Solecismic]

The NFL is saying the deflation took place after the referee certified the footballs. I could see Brady getting a couple of games for that even if he didn't want them below 12.5 psi (I can't imagine why he would - he has huge hands).

I didn't see the first-rounder coming. The letter refers to Spygate. Sorta like the NCAA and institutional control.

Having lived in the area for several years, I can imagine how this is going over in Patriot Nation. Shaughnessy is probably popping champagne. Sports Radio has, more probable than not, self-combusted.

[Kodos]

Boom goes the dynamite!

[sabotai]

Brady may participate in the offseason, training camp and preseason games, but pending appeal, will miss games against the Steelers, Bills, Jaguars and Cowboys.

......

This is an OUTRAGE! The absolute most his suspension should be is 3 games. That 4th one is just absurd!!!

[cartman]

Originally Posted by sabotai

......

This is an OUTRAGE! The absolute most his suspension should be is 3 games. That 4th one is just absurd!!!

The 5th game is against... The Colts

[MizzouRah]

I like it.

[Toddzilla]

the 4-games is w/o pay...anyone know what that means in terms of Brady's contract?

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Having lived in the area for several years, I can imagine how this is going over in Patriot Nation. Shaughnessy is probably popping champagne. Sports Radio has, more probable than not, self-combusted.

It has in Maine at least.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

the 4-games is w/o pay...anyone know what that means in terms of Brady's contract?

His new contract was for $8 mil next season, so $2 mil.

[Grover]

I love that Goodell claims this effects the integrity of the league. The league has integrity left at this point?

[Racer]

The suspension seems fair to me. I think first offender PED users get 4 games and this seems similar to that especially when you consider the fact he didn't cooperate with the investigation.

The penalty on the Patriots seems overly harsh though. Based on what I read this whole thing seemed to be between Brady and two locker room attendants. I am a Colts fan though so I do get enjoyment from the Patriots getting penalized so heavily.

[NobodyHere]

[Danny]

I voted season long, but really a career ban is appropriate. They should forfeit all superbowls and the Raiders should be named winners of the tuck game and given an extra super bowl trophy.

Really, I think 2-4 is appropriate. If he was honest about it, I would have been ok with just a fine, but I think he deserves a few games for thinking he is too cool for school.

[ColtCrazy]

Honestly surprised I was right with 4-8. I think it gets appealed down to 2, but I could see the 4 sticking. Imagine the hype going into the Colts-Pats game?

And Dad wants to sell all our night home games this year (90 minute drive that late is wearing him down). Don't think we'll have a problem moving them.

[jeff061]

Really, I think 2-4 is appropriate. If he was honest about it, I would have been ok with just a fine, but I think he deserves a few games for thinking he is too cool for school.

The penalty on the Patriots seems overly harsh though. Based on what I read this whole thing seemed to be between Brady and two locker room attendants.

Those sum up my feelings.

[EagleFan]

What better Patriots fans defending goldenboy or MBBF defending Royals...

[cartman]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

What better Patriots fans defending goldenboy or MBBF defending Royals/Mizzou/Sony/ghosts/etc...

fixed

[Dutch]

Meanwhile, in Belichek's mind, "Haha, suckers, I get 4 good looks at Giroppalo. *snicker*"

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by sabotai

......

This is an OUTRAGE! The absolute most his suspension should be is 3 games. That 4th one is just absurd!!!

LOL!

[JAG]

It would be tough to overturn it on appeal. They specifically state that the evidence is that this has been going on for some time rather than a single game, combined with the Spygate scandal which is why I think the punishment looks so harsh.

[Thomkal]

Seems a tad excessive to me, but I think they did that on purpose because it's going to be appealed and reduced if they go to an arbitrator outside the NFL's appeals process. And if Brady does go that route, he's going to be asked to hand over his phone and computer again so they can check his emails, callls, and texts. Why bother appealing if you aren't willing to do that?

In the end, I think it will be reduced to 2 or 3 games suspended. If the Patriots can appeal, they will get one of the draft picks, probably not the first rounder back, and a smaller fine. If the two locker room attendants did this under Brady's orders, then they need to get their jobs back-probably suspended the same time as Brady.

[Carman Bulldog]

I don't understand this whole cell phone thing. Why should a guy have to turn over or provide a private investigator with his personal private cell phone communications? And he's essentially suspended for not doing it? Where does the line end... can the NFL demand to search private residences or vehicles as well and would a refusal be considered conduct detrimental to the league? Perhaps it's an American vs. Canadian thing but is the reasonable expectation of privacy really that low?

I don't buy the employer argument either, considering the Pats are his employer. But furthermore, if I understand correctly, it's a private cell phone and not one issued by his team or the NFL.

[Dutch]

He is not bound to hand them over. Its a private organization though, they can penalize as they see fit (barring the NFLPA, I'd imagine) and at this point it would only serve to prove innocence, I suppose.

[miami_fan]

At least we no longer have to worry about the optics of Goodell going to Kraft's parties!

[Fonzie]

Regarding the reasonableness of the cell phone issue, I certainly wouldn't hand over my phone in such an investigation if I had any choice. But, it sounds like Brady could have cooperated without physically surrendering his phone. Here's the relevant portion of the Wells report (pg. 21):

Similarly, although Tom Brady appeared for a requested interview and answered questions voluntarily, he declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and emails) that we requested, even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls) and we offered to allow Brady's counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady's telephone or other electronic devices.

Brady refused to allow a review of his electronic materials, even one that was curated and supervised by his own counsel. Considering that the text and phone records of the other Patriots employees were already in hand, and that Bob Kraft had pledged that the Patriots organization would fully cooperate with the NFL's investigation, Brady's refusal to cooperate on this matter could fairly be described as peculiar.

[kcchief19]

I felt that since deflate-gate took place in the playoffs, the penalty should have been in the playoffs too. My bet was on a four-game suspension, but I though a better penalty would have been a two-game postseason suspension.

Brady will be 38 this season. Suspend him for two playoff games, and more than likely you're ensuring Brady won't be playing for a Super Bowl in the next two seasons. He might as well retire, since he probably wouldn't play a playoff game until he's 40.

This penalty actually probably helps Brady to a degree. He's going to get a four-week vacation during the season, which should keep him fresh for the playoffs. The Patriots are good enough to scuffle along for four weeks, and once they are in the tournament anything can happen, especially with a rested Brady.

[Julio Riddols]

Brady been texting with a side bitch, has some nudes she sent him and some nasty sexts about things on there. Doesn't want this to get out into the open, lest he turn into the next Tiger Woods. It's all about to come crashing down, pinball wizard.

[ColtCrazy]

Many Pats' fans posts online seem to focus on the deflation and not the fact that the Pats are repeat offenders who didn't exactly cooperate this time around. Punishment is well deserved though I still think it gets reduced when Kraft starts threatening law suits or something.

[Fonzie]

Count me amongst the folks who think this would've all blown over with a minor fine had Brady simply said, "yeah, I asked 'em to make sure the balls were at the low end of the allowable range - really didn't think it was a big deal. Didn't mean to break any rules. Sorry, don't blame the equipment guys, that was my bad."

But he didn't, so here we are.