Star Wars: Episode VIII (Now with spoilers!!!!!)

[stevew]

Alright General Lee this is probably spoilery

What was the point of having Justin Theroux in this movie?
What was the point of having Benicio del Toro in this movie?
What was the point of Snoke?
What was the point of building up Rey's parentage for so long and then what we got.
How the fuck does the first order get money
Those Capital ships had to cost like 20 trillion dollars or whatever the equivalent is.
I mean seriously how much Snokes ship cost?
Like seriously those ships had to take 25 years to build
That whole Leia scene in space was laughable
I mean I know the whole point of movies is that you tease something, I E a mirage reveal, but surely I wasn't the only one sitting there watching and thinking like this is obviously not actually that character.
If snoke doesn't matter, why did we even see him.
Once again why was Justin Theroux even in this movie?

[stevew]

Oh yeah how did Snokes ship make it through light speed. The radius on that thing had to be comparable to that of a death star if not larger

[stevew]

Seriously captain phasma, why did we even have that character?

[stevew]

Also did they 86 a ton of rumored sequences? There was supposed to be an epic battle on that island that Luke is on and there are all kinds of set reports. Also there was rumored to be a snoke and Leia sequence that did not make the Final Cut

[stevew]

Oscar Isaac totally Carried the movie. He's my MVP

[NobodyHere]

I'm changing the thread title to warn about spoilers. Spoil away and I'll be back tomorrow.

[Butter]

I really liked it. But they finally get away to the planet and I figure that's about it.

Nope, still like 40 minutes left. It was too long. Some of the stuff stevew mentions definitely could've been cut.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, I was disappointed. Oh well. My expectations were not met. Was hoping for more grey Jedi and middle ground rather than black and white again at the end. Also I don't think all much really happened and time was wasted on characters who didn't matter (Snoke, Phasma - why have them?). I was bored midway through as well with the 'chase'. I actually don't need to ever really see it again.

[ISiddiqui]

Interestingly enough The Last Jedi audience scores on Rotten Tomatoes are fairly middling:

Last Jedi Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score Is Lower Than Justice League - MovieWeb

[Drake]

I just want to say that I thought Mark Hamill's performance was splendid. He authentically felt like the same kid from A New Hope all grown up and grown old, with the sorts of reservations and issues you'd expect from the context story. Part of that is good writing, yes, but I felt like Hamill just absolutely nailed the character progression.

In contrast, Carrie Fischer felt like "Carrie Fischer as Princess Leia" to me in both of the new films. Harrison Ford reprising Han Solo and getting that right didn't surprise me because we've seen his acting chops on display for years...I just didn't expect Hamill to have the same chops (even knowing that he's been a working voice actor for years). He just completely embodied the character.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Interestingly enough The Last Jedi audience scores on Rotten Tomatoes are fairly middling:

Last Jedi Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score Is Lower Than Justice League - MovieWeb

The Rotten Tomatoes audience score is weird because it does not match other audience metrics. It got an A Cinemascore and has an 8.1 on IMDB.

[ISiddiqui]

Well Phantom Menace got an A- Cinemascore. And Metacritic's user score is 5.1/10, so it isn't just RT's audience score which is middle of the road.

The IMDB score seems to be dropping as well. 8.0 now (was 8.3 after Thursday, I think). Most of the recent user reviews (at least the written ones) appear to be negative.

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[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well Phantom Menace got an A- Cinemascore. And Metacritic's user score is 5.1/10, so it isn't just RT's audience score which is middle of the road.

The IMDB score seems to be dropping as well. 8.0 now (was 8.3 after Thursday, I think). Most of the recent user reviews (at least the written ones) appear to be negative.

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Yes all three prequels got an A- , while all three new generation films (Force Awakens, Rogue One, and Last Jedi) have now got an A. I think the reputation of the prequels definitely soured significantly over time. Maybe that will happen with TLJ, but it is starting from a higher point and has a much better IMDB score - TLJ is 8.1, which matches Force Awakens and is higher than Rogue One's 7.8. The prequels are 6.5, 6.6, and 7.6.

The best explanation may be Star Wars die hards are really divided over the film, but general audiences are much more positive. When I peruse the RT scores, every single negative review I found over the first 5 pages was written by someone who had never written another review on the site.

[Shkspr]

The Steam shitbombers have found a new cause; that's all it is.

[ISiddiqui]

As someone who participts on the Star Wars Reddit boards, I can say that reaction is all over the place. And it isn't 'shitbombers' or people who didn't want change either (it is somewhat insulting to label people who didn't like the film to be trolls or can't handle something different - not saying that is going on with folks here, but it is around the internet).

There are people who simply didn't find the movie to be all that good and they have reasonable reasons for why that is.

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[stevew]

How about instead of the whole gambling sequence, Rose has a good idea where she successfully argues that if they steer towards a certain planet they can disrupt the ships shield? Maybe this planet is high in the ore that her necklace is made of. You drop the extraneous mutiny sequence. You drop the Lara Dern character. Leia reveals herself to be mortally wounded and takes out Snokes ship.

Also would it be too much to ask that maybe Snoke throws in a line like "my master abandoned me and left me scarred, all cause there was a better alternative (Anakin)".

Movie was too long with a bunch of extraneous stuff that could have been written out easily.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

As someone who participts on the Star Wars Reddit boards, I can say that reaction is all over the place. And it isn't 'shitbombers' or people who didn't want change either (it is somewhat insulting to label people who didn't like the film to be trolls or can't handle something different - not saying that is going on with folks here, but it is around the internet).

There are people who simply didn't find the movie to be all that good and they have reasonable reasons for why that is.

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Well I would qualify not wanting change as a reasonable reason (one I disagree with), so not sure why that would be considered insulting. And it does seem to be a source of complaint from many of the people I've discussed it with online - how it seemed to be such a drastic change from where Force Awakens was going.

Also, people can have reasonable reasons to dislike a film and the ratings systems can still be manipulated. It's not either/or. IMDB has a weighted rating system to counteract attempts at hijacking the rating for specific movie.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by stevew

How about instead of the whole gambling sequence, Rose has a good idea where she successfully argues that if they steer towards a certain planet they can disrupt the ships shield? Maybe this planet is high in the ore that her necklace is made of. You drop the extraneous mutiny sequence. You drop the Lara Dern character. Leia reveals herself to be mortally wounded and takes out Snokes ship.

I liked the gambling sequence mainly because of the way it ended. It was a dumb plan and it should've failed. I loved that for once in a movie something like that blew up in the heroes faces. I also liked the thematic idea of the people on the planet living lives of luxury unburdened by the war surrounding them.

[ISiddiqui]

It can be insulting because it's a wave off. Oh you just didn't want change. I find the negative opinions more of the notion that nothing substantially really changed - it's still light v dark with some suggestion of grey, and the rebellion is still running away from the First Order. And the changes that were included made certain characters meaningless (what really was the point of Snoke?). Also it's a 2.5 hour movie which should have at least a half hour shorter.

FWIW, you keep saying 8.1 on IMDB. It has dropped to 8.0 and the trend line is south. Now it may indeed stabilize, but there are negative opinions out there that aren't just bot spam or what have you.

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[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

FWIW, you keep saying 8.1 on IMDB. It has dropped to 8.0 and the trend line is south. Now it may indeed stabilize, but there are negative opinions out there that aren't just bot spam or what have you.

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You seem to be wanting to argue with someone who has said there aren't reasonable reasons to dislike the film. And you seem to have identified me as someone arguing this, even though I said the direct opposite in the very post you were responding to. I feel like my point is pretty simple:

1) There are reasonable reasons to dislike The Last Jedi.
2) The Rotten Tomatoes user score is tainted.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by Drake

I just want to say that I thought Mark Hamill's performance was splendid. He authentically felt like the same kid from A New Hope all grown up and grown old, with the sorts of reservations and issues you'd expect from the context story. Part of that is good writing, yes, but I felt like Hamill just absolutely nailed the character progression.

In contrast, Carrie Fischer felt like "Carrie Fischer as Princess Leia" to me in both of the new films. Harrison Ford reprising Han Solo and getting that right didn't surprise me because we've seen his acting chops on display for years...I just didn't expect Hamill to have the same chops (even knowing that he's been a working voice actor for years). He just completely embodied the character.

Man, I just couldn't disagree more on Hamill - I thought he was by far the worst part of the film (with a close runner-up to Laura Dern's entirely unnecessary character introduction). I felt like every minute they spent on the island was tedious and boring, with a handful of terrible zingers thrown in. I thought the interplay between Rey & Kylo Ren was excellent, while her interaction with Luke was completely uninteresting. I walked out of the theater understanding why Hamill only does voice work these days.

I thought the first hour of the movie was a complete waste of time, while the last hour was completely fantastic. Even then, the conclusion to the Luke storyline was less than satisfying to me.

[ISiddiqui]

Larry, I feel your points are somewhat contradictory, which is why I am pushing back. Saying RT's audience score is tainted appears to be pushing back against the notion that there are reasonable reasons to dislike TLJ. Almost like saying, there are reasonable reasons, but actually very few people have them (minimizing the reasonable reasons).

If you are saying something different, it isn't clear.

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[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Larry, I feel your points are somewhat contradictory, which is why I am pushing back. Saying RT's audience score is tainted appears to be pushing back against the notion that there are reasonable reasons to dislike TLJ. Almost like saying, there are reasonable reasons, but actually very few people have them (minimizing the reasonable reasons).

If you are saying something different, it isn't clear.

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Yeah, that logic makes no sense to me. The number of people who dislike a movie has no bearing on whether I think they have valid reasons for disliking a movie. There are movies I don't like that many people love and I certainly don't think my opinion is unreasonable. There are a ton of people (over 12,000 on IMDB gave it 1/10) who hate Brokeback Mountain for obvious reasons that I would not consider reasonable.

I am simply making a data argument. Cinemascore is a random sample. IMDB has methods to counteract tainted samples. The Rotten Tomatoes User Score is a tainted sample. Thus, I think IMDB and Cinemascore are better indicators. That would be true whether I liked TLJ or not. That will be true no matter how low TLJ falls on IMDB.

[molson]

I loved it, and am going to see it again this weekend.

[Toddzilla]

I thought it was good/almost great after seeing it and now a day afterwards having thought about it and the things I liked/didn't like it's safe to say I freaking love that movie, it was spectacular.

The one part that *really* bugged me when I saw it was seeing Laura Dern. Ugh. Really? No anonymous actress could have played that part? Well, after seeing how it played out - NOPE - no anonymous actress could have possibly played it as marvelous as she did. Her 5-6 minutes of total screen time was perfect understated beautiful brilliance and the way she went out was an all-time great movie visual. Little things like that made Last Jedi so special. The little kids working in the stables that you knew somehow would mean more before the movie was over (I got weepy when the kid summoned his broom), The glimpse of Phasma's face before she disappeared (for now) into the flames, Luke showing up on the mining planet somehow looking 20 years younger, the way they mirrored the Leia and Luke connection with Kylo and Rey only to pull the rug completely out from under you, Hux getting ready to pull his blaster on Kylo after the spectacular Kurosawa-fitting light saber battle.

I have to see this again.

[NobodyHere]

I thought the movie was pretty good, better than The Force Awakens and I can see why Disney gave the director a shot at a new trilogy.

Some thoughts:
I learned that Resistance bombers shouldn't be flown in tight formation.
I think Snoke deserved a bigger back story. This guy basically conquered the galaxy yet likely won't be in the third movie. I understand that his death gives space for Kylo Ren to grow but still.
There were so many head-fakes in this movie that I think I have whiplash.
Mark Hamill is fantastic.
I totally didn't expect to see Yoda and loved his scenes.
I really liked the dynamic between Rey and Ren.
In the future you really just need small ships to hyperdrive into the much bigger ships. Just make them piloted by droids and now you have very cost effective super missiles.
Probably about 15 minutes too long.
The Leia in space thing was overdone yet it still brought a tear to my eye (I think it's mostly the theme music).
So Rose stops Finn's suicide mission with basically a suicide mission? I mean what part of her plan makes you think "This will work out for both of us".
BB8 is fantastic.

[CrimsonFox]

He's got Cory Hart lips!

[CrimsonFox]

or duran duran



they really are sexy darkside lips

[CrimsonFox]

I am sad after seeing it. Mostly because of the lost potential. I wish Mark Hamill had done more movies

[CrimsonFox]

My first thought about the "thief" was...

Looks and talks exactly like Tom Waits in Mystery Men.



My second thought was....huh it looks like Beneicio Del TOro. But that can't be him. I wonder who it is.

[PilotMan]

A really good movie. We're not in LotR land, it'll never be in the IMDB top 200, but it's a fun movie, and suitable for the saga.

Having said that there were a few puzzling moments.

I think I audibly groaned when I saw Laura Dern. I feel like she ruins everything she's in, but that's not fair to her.

The bombers were puzzling as it felt like a tech setback.

The First Order shows up, but the Destroyers just sit there without firing while they talk about what they should do, while a single fighter goes off. It happened multiple times where it seemed like quicker thinking should have saved the day.

Laura Dern, despite her clever delivery system, took damn long enough, while she sits in her ship and watches.

I really liked the subtle and not so subtle call backs to Empire. It wasn't as obvious as Force Awakens, but there were plenty of them.

The entire chase felt like I was watching the OJ chase all over again.

Really liked all the actors, and thought they all did very well. Mark Hamill was really good. Wished it could have been more.

It seemed like they were building up to something amazing. Taking cues from the games and even Luke's own doubts and the potential to take the entire series down an amazing direction. However, they chose not too. That was slightly disappointing, but the door might still be open. I really, really hoped that Rey would have joined with Ben. Could've changed everything, and proved that the Jedi were wrong after all, but that the Sith were too.

Rey's parent reveal was double sided. On the one side, it seemed like an obvious false flag. Second, it seemed like a massive smack to all the discussion about it on blogs and YT. To the point it made me chuckle. It was clever. You think you know? Well guess what? Lol.

The complete lack of a backstory on Snoke was disappointing. I liked seeing Benicio Del Toro, but that entire arc with Fin and Rose felt forced and like time just stood still everywhere. Honestly, that plan was fucking dumb.

This is the second turn tease for Kylo, and this one was really well done. Love Adam Driver and his character. Loved it.

Arcing bolts to cruiser. I mean really. That's never been a thing. Why are we arcing and why are the destroyers never firing! These aren't boats, ffs! Probably my biggest PP.

Lots to love. Lots. It was just a good movie. Even though it was long, they packed a ton in. I'd gladly watch it a couple more times.

[Neon_Chaos]

Is nobody going to point out that someone said “Godspeed”?

That broke immersion for me. AFAIK, The concept of God is non-existent in the SW universe.

[CrimsonFox]

Pilotman I HATED Laura Dern's character too. WTF with that purple hair!

Didn't even know it was her

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Is nobody going to point out that someone said “Godspeed”?

That broke immersion for me. AFAIK, The concept of God is non-existent in the SW universe.

I about barfed when LUke said "Religion"

[CrimsonFox]

I must admit I was sleepy and exhausted from stress of work...but the first 45 minutes seemed to jump by like it was missing scenes. I was confused about the flow. THe biggest thing was...

wait how did they get to a casino...

weren't they just on a ship about to die?

[CrimsonFox]

Was Rey's parent actually her? Or was it just mother that looked like her.

I don't know what that was.


Best part of the movie was the conversations between Rey and Kylo...

also Mark Hamill <3

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I about barfed when LUke said "Religion"

Why exactly? Han references hokey religions in New Hope.

[CrimsonFox]

also Carrie Fisher floating in space....

[stevew]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

also Carrie Fisher floating in space....

Yeah lol

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Why exactly? Han references hokey religions in New Hope.

It just struck a chord with me. The same exact chord when I heard the word "mitichlorians".

The Force isn't a religion.

Albeit is ALSO struck the chord of "many nerds wrote "Jedi" on their census for 'religion' to actually make it one"


I did perceive a hint of mocking disgust in hamill's voice but just using the word yeah. It wasn't really in the universe.

[Brian Swartz]

Tarkin also referred to the Jedi as a religion when speaking with Vader on the Death Star. I think it clearly is part of the universe that it's referred to as such.

Godspeed is different, I definitely see the point there.

On the movie as a whole, I just cannot understand how somebody could think it is better than TFA. After TFA, I came in with lower expectations for this one; looking at it as a sci-fi movie instead of a Star-Wars movie. There were isolated good moments in this effort. It's not a total bomb or anything. The Leia space thing would have been a good way for her to die. What they made it is bad parody. Then there's the scene with Luke and Leia on the planet at the end, where he's later revealed to be an illusion -- but there's physical contact with the two of them and she thinks he's real? I actually liked the admiral character that's getting panned here. And Yoda's ghost engulfing the tree in flames? Since when is that a thing?

I still think what somebody suggested about the end of TFA would have been a thousand times better. Have this movie be about the search for Luke, many interesting things could have been done with that. As it is, I'll expect the next installment to along the lines of Rey's Revenge; Not Even Trying to be a Star Wars Story.

[NobodyHere]

My initial impressions is that this movie is much better than The Force Awakens. TFA's main flaw was that is what just too derivative of past movies. I like the fact that a theme of this movie was breaking with the past and moving forward.

[CrimsonFox]

who is Justin Theroux?

[CrimsonFox]

The purpose of SNokes is to have a character for Andy serkis to do in green screen suit, DuhDOY!

[GoldenCrest Games]

Originally Posted by Drake

I just want to say that I thought Mark Hamill's performance was splendid. He authentically felt like the same kid from A New Hope all grown up and grown old, with the sorts of reservations and issues you'd expect from the context story. Part of that is good writing, yes, but I felt like Hamill just absolutely nailed the character progression.

+1

I'm starting to believe the whole Star Wars saga is the story of Mark Hamill's journey from the most annoying actor in a movie to the best part of a movie. It's like some sort of deep 4th wall breaking conceptual story.

[CrimsonFox]

Did anyone else giggle a little every time someone said Snokes? It's such a silly name.

Like it's a giant elephant creature of something.

[CrimsonFox]

That's probably why he went darkside. All the other forceusers picking on him and beating him up

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Drake

In contrast, Carrie Fischer felt like "Carrie Fischer as Princess Leia" to me in both of the new films.

I wish they had let it end before her jedi trick. It would have added quite a bit of weight to that moment and Poe's choices.

[ISiddiqui]

FWIW, re: previous discussion, the IMDB score is now down to 7.9.

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[CrimsonFox]

I guess Fishers voice was gone and couldn't do the accent anymore. Because indeed she sounded like her normal RL self