Israeli-Hamas War (Oct 2023)

[illinifan999]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0upJacn86cA

On the ground reporting with Palestinian atrocities.

[CrimsonFox]

[Edward64]

I don't agree with his 2nd half analogy but he put it well saying (paraphrased) ... who is right or wrong depends on the point in time of who did what then (and the reaction), and therefore not useful to go back that far.

[Edward64]

Hezbollah has been exchanging hostilities with Israel. Hope that doesn't flare up but can easily see a 2 front "war". Iran holds the strings there.

[miami_fan]

Chicago-area landlord charged with hate crimes after fatally stabbing 6-year-old and wounding his mom because they were Muslim, authorities say | CNN

[CrimsonFox]

[Edward64]

I think you meant to share the cold open vs monologue?

Yeah, I saw that, good of him to share it.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I think you meant to share the cold open vs monologue?

Yeah, I saw that, good of him to share it.

i don't know what you're talking about

[CrimsonFox]

Video shows 'families killed amid their belongings' on evacuation route | CNN

[Edward64]

Hah, datetime stamps never lie

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Chicago-area landlord charged with hate crimes after fatally stabbing 6-year-old and wounding his mom because they were Muslim, authorities say | CNN

Yeah but did the kid denounce Hamas?

[RainMaker]

Lead addled boomer obsessed with right wing talk.

Joseph Czuba fatally stabbed 6-year-old Palestinian boy after listening to radio and becoming worried about personal safety, prosecutors say - Chicago Sun-Times

[CrimsonFox]

Watch out for those legos

[JonInMiddleGA]

Belgium-Sweden Euro qualifier suspended after shooting - ESPN

[Edward64]

Oh frak.

Lots of casualties in Gaza hospital strike

[Ghost Econ]

Well, if you want to win the war of public opinion, that's one way to do it.

[Edward64]

Currently up for debate if it was Israeli accidental/intentional or Hamas accidental.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Currently up for debate if it was Israeli accidental/intentional or Hamas accidental.

Israel has to stop the bombing.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Israel has to stop the bombing.

...but her emails...

[GrantDawg]

They should take this deal, but there is real questions if this is trust-worthy.

A sr hamas leader tells @NBCNews the group is willing to release all civilian hostages, foreigners and Israelis, if the strikes on Gaza stop.

— Richard Engel (@RichardEngel) October 17, 2023

[RainMaker]

BREAKING: Al-Jazeera reports that the ���� IDF spokesperson says they had warned regarding evacuating the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital as well as five other hospitals

— The Spectator Index (@spectatorindex) October 17, 2023

[GrantDawg]

They are saying the death toll is most likely due to the bomb falling in the courtyard of the hospital. Many displaced people are sheltering there in a very tight spot.

Meanwhile, the West Bank is getting hot with protestors because of this bombing.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, things in the West Bank seem bad too.

Mass arrests in the West Bank and Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. Lawyers and doctors are even having their licenses revoked and arrested over social media posts.

— Mariam Barghouti مريم البرغوثي (@MariamBarghouti) October 17, 2023

[Edward64]

I’m going to give it time for the US analysts tell me what happened. There seems to be some good night video on what happened.

Abbas has cancelled meeting with Joe. IMO premature but understandable

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I’m going to give it time for the US analysts tell me what happened. There seems to be some good night video on what happened.

Abbas has cancelled meeting with Joe. IMO premature but understandable

It is a tightrope he has to walk. That's a tough job.

[GrantDawg]

IDf claiming they have proof it was a Hamas rocket because of course they do. Even if it was, it will take a neutral arbiter for anyone to believe it.

[Edward64]

Toss in Islamic Jihad into the finger pointing

[RainMaker]

There is video of it. It's not a misfire. Either was targeted directly or a generator on the hospital messed with the heat seaking tech.



Worth noting that Israel posted another video claiming it was a rocket misfire but the timestamps were off by 30 minutes. So they deleted and reposted without the timestamps when people called them out on it.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There is video of it. It's not a misfire. Either was targeted directly or a generator on the hospital messed with the heat seaking tech.

The idea that this was a counter barrage on a missile launcher that went astride makes sense. The Ukrainian anti-air missile that hit Poland was much bigger than you would imagine one of those missiles would be. Hit an enclosed space where people are in the open and super crowded, that seems realistic.

[GrantDawg]

And the more I watch that, that second ground explosion had to hit something to cause a secondary explosion. Fuel tank?

[GrantDawg]

NEWS

Jordanians have swarmed the Israeli embassy in Amman attempting to enter the compound in the aftermath of reports that hundreds have been killed in a hospital bombing in Gaza City.

There are additional reports of a fire. @AFP

— Yashar Ali �� (@yashar) October 17, 2023

[RainMaker]

With electricity cut off, they are running on generators. So, the area probably has a decent amount of fuel to keep a hospital running. Then again, Israel has some really powerful rockets that can do incredible damage.

Hospitals have been a prime target for Israel over the years. Hamas has nothing in its arsenal that could come close to leveling a hospital like that.










[GrantDawg]

From the shots closer to the ground the only thing you can tell is that it was definitely a rocket or missile. It comes in propelled at a high velocity. Not like a gravity bomb. The ground explosion seems to suggest a secondary explosion. Whether it is an Israeli or Hamas rocket, you usually don't see that level of fireball from a missile or rocket. That is like a fuel-burn.

[GrantDawg]

The best argument on the failed rocket counterclaim is if it had just launched a long-range large rocket laden with fuel could have caused that kind of fireball.

[RainMaker]

I don't think it's a confusing case. Hamas has nothing powerful enough to do that kind of damage. Israel has a history of targeting hospitals.

Israel has said they are going to target the hospital, they warned people to leave, and they proceeded to brag about hitting the hospital after the strike. It was only after some backlash came did they hastily come up with a story about it being a Hamas rocket and post some easily debunked videos that they later had to delete.

This isn't a tough one to crack. They did what they said they would do.

[RainMaker]

Doctors from the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza hold a press conference among the bodies of those slaughtered in the Israeli strike.

The most surreal zoom out I have ever seen. pic.twitter.com/faovWQvSDk

— Alan MacLeod (@AlanRMacLeod) October 17, 2023

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Doctors from the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza hold a press conference among the bodies of those slaughtered in the Israeli strike.

The most surreal zoom out I have ever seen. pic.twitter.com/faovWQvSDk

— Alan MacLeod (@AlanRMacLeod) October 17, 2023

definitely effective

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Abbas has cancelled meeting with Joe. IMO premature but understandable

Jordan also says no thanks.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't think it's a confusing case. Hamas has nothing powerful enough to do that kind of damage.

Actually they do. They use the BADR-3 rockets that they get from Iran. Note the warhead explodes in air and spreads 1.400 pieces of shrapnel. Looks like the damage that was done in this attack.
https://www.debka.com/irans-badr-3-m...ket-offensive/

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Israel has said they are going to target the hospital, they warned people to leave, and they proceeded to brag about hitting the hospital after the strike. It was only after some backlash came did they hastily come up with a story about it being a Hamas rocket and post some easily debunked videos that they later had to delete.

Can you show me directly where they said to abandon this specific hospital and where they would attack this specific hospital? What I keep seeing linked is a WHO article that condemns the call from Israel to evacuate all hospitals in Northern Gaza ahead of the ground offensive. That is a part of asking all civilians to leave the area so they will not be caught in the cross-fire.

I'm not saying Israel didn't do this. I don't trust Israel's statements any more than I trust Palestine sources. They both have reasons to lie, exaggerate and play PR games with anything that happens. That is why you look beyond just what the PR are saying.
This is a really interesting post breaking down the videos available and what they believe happened. People say they have done a real good job breaking down attacks in Ukraine, but I have no idea their political allegences.

GeoConfirmed ISR-PAL.

A missile launched by Palestinian Groups exploded mid-air and one of the pieces fell on the Al-Ahli Arab Hospital's yard.

31.504822, 34.46169

Before reacting READ our thread.https://t.co/qbpUGQk89o

1/X

— GeoConfirmed (@GeoConfirmed) October 17, 2023

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I'm not saying Israel didn't do this. I don't trust Israel's statements any more than I trust Palestine sources. They both have reasons to lie, exaggerate and play PR games with anything that happens. That is why you look beyond just what the PR are saying.

Agree

This is a really interesting post breaking down the videos available and what they believe happened. People say they have done a real good job breaking down attacks in Ukraine, but I have no idea their political allegences.

I saw this video and watched it several times, cautious of confirmation bias with all the comments.

TBH even if a legit video, it's too dark for me to understand what is going on other than the "rocket" did not end its trajectory normally. It kinda "blew up, malfunctioned, got intercepted etc." and then "rocket, pieces" fell down.

I'd like to think the US carrier group is tracking all in/outbound rockets and can provide their POV as to what happened. I'll take the US analysis over Israeli or Hamas.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'd like to think the US carrier group is tracking all in/outbound rockets and can provide their POV as to what happened. I'll take the US analysis over Israeli or Hamas.

That part is what I have been wondering about as well. I would imagine part of what the US is doing is tracking everything in the air around Gaza and Southern Israel, and would have a trajectory on this.

[GrantDawg]

The IDF is going to release footage and intercepted conversation that is supposed to prove Islamic Jihad was behind the attack, so that is near definite proof that Israel did it.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

The IDF is going to release footage and intercepted conversation that is supposed to prove Islamic Jihad was behind the attack, so that is near definite proof that Israel did it.

Hah. Not going to convince anyone with deep fake technologies nowadays.

I think reporters should do their jobs and take pictures of the rocket wreckage.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That part is what I have been wondering about as well. I would imagine part of what the US is doing is tracking everything in the air around Gaza and Southern Israel, and would have a trajectory on this.

The US is on it.

Zachary Cohen
@ZcohenCNN
News: Israel has provided the US with intelligence it has gathered related to the deadly Gaza hospital explosion, a Israeli official & another source familiar with the matter tell me &
@OrenCNN
.

The US is analyzing the Israeli intelligence, sources say.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I think reporters should do their jobs and take pictures of the rocket wreckage.

Foreign journalists are banned from entering Gaza by the Israelis and those who do report in Gaza are routinely executed by the Israeli military.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Foreign journalists are banned from entering Gaza by the Israelis and those who do report in Gaza are routinely executed by the Israeli military.

Doesn't have to be foreign. Just take the pictures of the missile/rocket wreckage, there has to be some right?

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't think it's a confusing case. Hamas has nothing powerful enough to do that kind of damage. Israel has a history of targeting hospitals.

Israel has said they are going to target the hospital, they warned people to leave, and they proceeded to brag about hitting the hospital after the strike. It was only after some backlash came did they hastily come up with a story about it being a Hamas rocket and post some easily debunked videos that they later had to delete.

This isn't a tough one to crack. They did what they said they would do.

Conversely, one could argue that one minute before the hospital was hit, Hamas posted on its Telegram channel that they were launching their strongest rockets at Haifa; ultimately, no interceptions or impacts were ever detected.

Not a tough one to crack as you said. Hamas did what they said they would do.

Or better yet, let's let it play out and we'll see once we have more information. That doesn't seem to be your MO though.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Actually they do. They use the BADR-3 rockets that they get from Iran. Note the warhead explodes in air and spreads 1.400 pieces of shrapnel. Looks like the damage that was done in this attack.
https://www.debka.com/irans-badr-3-m...ket-offensive/

Can you show me directly where they said to abandon this specific hospital and where they would attack this specific hospital? What I keep seeing linked is a WHO article that condemns the call from Israel to evacuate all hospitals in Northern Gaza ahead of the ground offensive. That is a part of asking all civilians to leave the area so they will not be caught in the cross-fire.

I'm not saying Israel didn't do this. I don't trust Israel's statements any more than I trust Palestine sources. They both have reasons to lie, exaggerate and play PR games with anything that happens. That is why you look beyond just what the PR are saying.
This is a really interesting post breaking down the videos available and what they believe happened. People say they have done a real good job breaking down attacks in Ukraine, but I have no idea their political allegences.



Here you go. They hit the hospital a couple of days ago and then told them to evacuate. The article is from the 15th.

Al Ahli Arab Hospital Hit by Israeli Rockets, Urgent Evacuation Ordered

But the best proof is that Israel admitted it. Netanyahu's advisor bragged about hitting the hospital and killing terrorists shortly after it happened. When news of mass casualties came out, he deleted that and changed his story.

So you have the Israeli government telling everyone they would hit the hospital. The hospital gets obliterated by what looks and sounds like a JDAM.Then Israel brags about it.

There is also zero chance Hamas had a BADR-3 with that kind of munitions just hanging out in Gaza. Israel would have obliterated it as soon as the conflict started (likely before). And if they did have it, why the fuck have they not used it? Why was it not part of their attack a week ago? If there are actually functioning BADR-3 rockets in Gaza, Israel is the most incompetent military that has ever existed.

The only sources for this not being from Israel is coming from the Israeli government who initially took credit for the attack and has a history of lying. And a Twitter account with ties to CIA-backed NGOs. But hey, that's sort of the point. Just seed a little doubt so you don't have to feel bad about supporting this.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Conversely, one could argue that one minute before the hospital was hit, Hamas posted on its Telegram channel that they were launching their strongest rockets at Haifa; ultimately, no interceptions or impacts were ever detected.

Not a tough one to crack as you said. Hamas did what they said they would do.

Or better yet, let's let it play out and we'll see once we have more information. That doesn't seem to be your MO though.

You should open a map and see where Haifa is before regurgitating crap from the dumbest people online.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Here you go. They hit the hospital a couple of days ago and then told them to evacuate. The article is from the 15th.

Al Ahli Arab Hospital Hit by Israeli Rockets, Urgent Evacuation Ordered

But the best proof is that Israel admitted it. Netanyahu's advisor bragged about hitting the hospital and killing terrorists shortly after it happened. When news of mass casualties came out, he deleted that and changed his story.

So you have the Israeli government telling everyone they would hit the hospital. The hospital gets obliterated by what looks and sounds like a JDAM.Then Israel brags about it.

There is also zero chance Hamas had a BADR-3 with that kind of munitions just hanging out in Gaza. Israel would have obliterated it as soon as the conflict started (likely before). And if they did have it, why the fuck have they not used it? Why was it not part of their attack a week ago? If there are actually functioning BADR-3 rockets in Gaza, Israel is the most incompetent military that has ever existed.

The only sources for this not being from Israel is coming from the Israeli government who initially took credit for the attack and has a history of lying. And a Twitter account with ties to CIA-backed NGOs. But hey, that's sort of the point. Just seed a little doubt so you don't have to feel bad about supporting this.

You believe every dodgy pro-Hamas account and come at me hot? I at least say there is a question, but you have all the answers straight from Hamas PR reps mouth. Again, that warning wasn't singling out that hospital. It was for all the hospitals in the region along with all civilians. Why would you warn a target you are going to hit it? How does that even make sense? How will hiting a hospital even help their war goals? The only people that has benefit from this attack is Hamas. While no one has even suggested this was a purposeful false flag attack, it would seem they had way more to gain. And the supposed quote from Netanyahu's advisor is questionable as well. Then there is the supposed quote from Al-Jezeera that I have seen several people forward, but notice none of them provide a link to a source. Looked all over Al_Jezeera for it. Nada.
I will admit Israel sends out false information and propaganda on a regular basis. There is no way I am ready to claim this was are wasn't Israel. Are you willing to do the same? Of course not.