Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[MikeVic]

UFC 102 does not interest me at all.

[Calis]

UFC 102 isn't too bad. Maia vs. Marquardt I'm very interested to see. Will tell a lot about where Maia actually is.

Couture vs. Nog is still a good fight also imo. Sure it would have been better a couple years ago but I still want to see how it plays out. I think it works better as a co-main event to a bigger fight though.

Thiago vs. Jardine will put one of them back at the upper tier and is a good setup match. It should be entertaining as well.

Is Cro Cop vs. Dos Santos on 102 as well? I can't remember.

They had to stop and reload at some point. It looks better now than 103 imo unless they do pull some big surprise out for it.

[dervack]

103 is when Crocop is fighting.

[DeToxRox]

http://twitter.com/MichaelDavSmith

It has all the updates from Fedor's presser.

It sure sounds to me that Fedor is dodging UFC. I don't even think you can blame it on the manager because if Fedor wanted to be in UFC he'd be there. We'll see though.

[dervack]

M1 still wants to co-promote as part of the deal and Fedor is doing the EA MMA game. Hmm, sounds like either Dana's going to cave on the EA deal, or Fedor's not going to be fighting in the cage.

[DeToxRox]

So here is what Fedor was allegedly offered according to Carmichael Dave, who interviews Dana every week.

- The UFC offered Fedor a 6 fight, 30 million dollar contract. That's 5 mil a fight

- Immediate UFC Title shot.

- Lesnar/Fedor would be the biggest PPV in MMA history (we assume), and the UFC offered M-1 Global a cut of the PPV on top of Fedor's purse.

- Fedor was free to wear as many M-1 logoed items as he wished.

- The UFC also relented on allowing Fedor to compete in combat sambo.

Take it FWIW but if that's legit and he declined it, then what the hell does Fedor want? Cause as good as he is I don't think Fedor vs Brock is even worth all that.

[DeToxRox]

Presser is on going ..

- Vitor vs Franklin at 103

- UFC signs a deal with ESPN in the UK (Dunno if theres more to this, I am reading Sherdog)

- Tito will retire in the UFC.

[DeToxRox]

More ..

- Tito will fight in Nov/Dec, probably vs Coleman.

- Dan Henderson has the next title shot.

- White: M-1's going to "co-promote"? They're going to help US? "That shit probably works in Russia. Not here."

[DeToxRox]

White: if M-1 is ready to make a deal, they can call me right now. "I wanted this thing so bad. I was so confident this was going 2 happen"

[DeToxRox]

White: the deal that White said "would change the UFC forever" is "very close" to happening and NOT the Tito Ortiz deal.

[sovereignstar]

Wasted 35 minutes of my life last night. The UFC 5 Superfight featuring Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie was as bad as it gets. We are told that there will be a 30 minute time limit for the fight, keeping in mind there are no rounds. Well, the entire fricking fight is Royce in the guard and Shamrock on top of him. Keep in mind that fighters are never stood up. Neither of them take any chances. Frank keeps his head tucked in the entire time. When 30 minutes comes up, the announcers start wondering what is going on. Then Big John stands them up and tells them to go to their corners. Someone just decided to make up a 5 minute overtime on the spot. You can't make this shit up. Well, what happens? SAME FUCKING THING. 5 minutes of Royce in the guard and Frank on top. It ends in a draw.

I'm curious to see if new rules are introduced in UFC 6, but I wouldn't hold my breath with the apparent morons that ran things back then.

[Carman Bulldog]

If you liked that fight, you'll love Shamrock vs. Taktarov from UFC 7.

[TLK]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

If you liked that fight, you'll love Shamrock vs. Taktarov from UFC 7.

and Shamrock & Severn from UFC 9. That fight single-handedly killed MMA in Michigan for many years.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Fedor to Strikeforce, with M-1 as co-promoter.
Fedor Signs with Strikeforce
Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker told Sherdog.com last week that he plans to match the stoic Russian against the likes of Brett Rogers, Fabricio Werdum and the promotion’s heavyweight champion, Alistair Overeem.

To tell you the truth, I think Dana pretty well covered it in an interview on Friday.
White on Fedor: ‘We tried everything’
“He got offered a f---ing assload of money,” White said. “A ton of money, everything he wanted. He can go fight in sambo every f---ing Thursday night if he wants to. He can do everything he wanted to. We showed them nothing but respect.”

White sounded equal parts angry and exasperated Friday. He had said he didn’t want to discuss Emelianenko but then did numerous times over the hour-long call.

“It’s insanity to turn down a deal like this,” White said. “To turn down a deal like this, you don’t care about proving you’re the best in the world. You don’t want to fight the best in the world. You don’t care about money. How do you deal with something like that?”

[DaddyTorgo]

Fuck Dana. Whiny bitch. He really irritates me. He's just upset at losing out on the #1 guy in the world.

Strikeforce has a HW division that is decently loaded. Fedor vs. Overeem will be a sweet fight when it happens.

And in Strikeforce Fedor has a legit #2 promotion that he can help elevate, and really point to any future success and say "see that was pretty much all me." He has an opportunity to be the Golden Child for Strikeforce where in UFC he would be just another notch in the belt.

Plus, this means we get more Fedor on our TV, which I'm all for.

And not for nothing - some of those sambo fights are badass.

[DeToxRox]

Bret Rogers needs to Do's Work all over Fedor's face.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Eh, if that's "decently loaded" then the bar is probably set too low for the defintion.

I can't say I've ever even heard of Overeem much less Rogers, and only recognize Werdum's name in the vaguest sense (i.e. I couldn't tell you a thing about him beyond the name).

Might play to the hardest core audience and might draw a few extra buys from UFC loyalists who wouldn't otherwise buy a Strikeforce show but there's nothing I see there to significantly expand a promotion with. I'd say the odds are much better than the SF/M1 co-promotion goes under or otherwise implodes like the others than there is that this actually becomes meaningful beyond knocking Dana out of some additional dollars.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Eh, if that's "decently loaded" then the bar is probably set too low for the defintion.

I can't say I've ever even heard of Overeem much less Rogers, and only recognize Werdum's name in the vaguest sense (i.e. I couldn't tell you a thing about him beyond the name).

Might play to the hardest core audience and might draw a few extra buys from UFC loyalists who wouldn't otherwise buy a Strikeforce show but there's nothing I see there to significantly expand a promotion with. I'd say the odds are much better than the SF/M1 co-promotion goes under or otherwise implodes like the others than there is that this actually becomes meaningful beyond knocking Dana out of some additional dollars.

but who is there in UFC who is a legit fight for him? Lesner? Who else? Gabriel Gonzaga?

He's already whupped Cro Cop, Heath Herring, Nogeuira (although I'd love to see yet another of those). By staying out of UFC he at least keeps alive a Josh Barnett match, gets an Overeem match, a Fabricio Werdum match, even a Brett Rogers match.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

but who is there in UFC who is a legit fight for him? Lesner? Who else? Gabriel Gonzaga?

He's already whupped Cro Cop, Heath Herring, Nogeuira (although I'd love to see yet another of those). By staying out of UFC he at least keeps alive a Josh Barnett match, gets an Overeem match, a Fabricio Werdum match, even a Brett Rogers match.

de la Santos after he punks Cro Cop, Carwin, Valasquez, Brock, obviously. Randy vs Fedor would make him a lot of money because people love Randy still and that'd draw. Then you have Machida in the wings if he tools out the UFC HW division. Strikeforce has Werdum (yawn), Overeem (solid) and Rogers (again, solid) then not much.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah, but it also gives Fedor a chance to cut his teeth in the cage while avoiding being "sacrificed" early to draw a huge PPV against say Brock. Gives him time to get used to it before then moving to UFC.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

but who is there in UFC who is a legit fight for him? Lesner?

Is there really another fight that matters at this point?

I can't see anything he does in SF legitimizing him any more than he is right now. If he doesn't run through their lineup like a knife through hot butter then he isn't what he's supposed to be. If he does, say over the course of three fights in two years then we're probably in the same spot we're in today ... except that both of them are moving close to the end of their careers.

I don't know where the decline really sets in for these guys, heck I'm not sure there's an adequate sample size of top-level MMA guys with completed career arcs to say for sure, but looking at some past names I'd reckon it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 35-37 that they're on the back end of peak, 37-38 that the decline starts to get noticeable and after that most of them are moving toward becoming an MMA Holyfield.

Fedor turns 33 next month, Brock is 32. Figure two years on this deal & Fedor is 35. Another six months to a year to set up a Lesnar fight & he's getting in the range of not fighting at his peak while Lesnar still has something left in the tank. And we'll end up with a dud as the younger guy kills someone that he didn't face in his true prime.

[dervack]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Fuck Dana. Whiny bitch. He really irritates me. He's just upset at losing out on the #1 guy in the world.

Strikeforce has a HW division that is decently loaded. Fedor vs. Overeem will be a sweet fight when it happens.

And in Strikeforce Fedor has a legit #2 promotion that he can help elevate, and really point to any future success and say "see that was pretty much all me." He has an opportunity to be the Golden Child for Strikeforce where in UFC he would be just another notch in the belt.

Plus, this means we get more Fedor on our TV, which I'm all for.

And not for nothing - some of those sambo fights are badass.

I would almost bet that Overeem never fights Fedor in Strikeforce. After that, what's left? A UFC reject in Werdum? Other than Brett Rogers, SF has zero. And, it won't be long till this deal handcuff SF and causes them to fold. Especially if Dana decides to pull out the guns and go after them like he did Affliction. So far, his like for Scott Coker has prevented him from going after SF, maybe now he won't have any problems launching a war against them.

[Calis]

Strikeforce also has a network deal with CBS and you can bet Fedor will be headlining that. Doubt that pulls in many viewers, but if M-1 is really wanting to get it's other guys some spotlight this might be the best route.

It is an odd deal all around, but not surprising. At this point I can't really pile on Fedor or the UFC. At this point I'm almost relieved.

[Havok]

I lost a lot of respect for Fedor today. I was a huge fan of his, but this is a pure bitch move. Don't even try and 'talk up' strike force like it's anything other than second class to the UFC. This isn't about your personal feelings on Dana White, it's about Fedor going to by far and away the best MMA organization in the world and giving the fans of MMA what they want.

Plus he turned down a fucking massive contract. I've heard reports of it being a 5-6 fight contract worth over 30 million. You think strikeforce offered him that? Fuck no.... sorry Fedor, but i hope you get knocked the fuck out by someone real soon ya pussy.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Havok

I lost a lot of respect for Fedor today. I was a huge fan of his, but this is a pure bitch move. Don't even try and 'talk up' strike force like it's anything other than second class to the UFC. This isn't about your personal feelings on Dana White, it's about Fedor going to by far and away the best MMA organization in the world and giving the fans of MMA what they want.

Plus he turned down a fucking massive contract. I've heard reports of it being a 5-6 fight contract worth over 30 million. You think strikeforce offered him that? Fuck no.... sorry Fedor, but i hope you get knocked the fuck out by someone real soon ya pussy.

I'm sure Fedor is concerned with your career advice and what you think of him.

I'd rather see him go to Strikeforce so that he gets a couple higher-level fights in a cage under his belt to ensure he doesn't have that as an excuse if/when he fights Lesner or whoever beats Lesner in the meantime.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SteveBollea

I think the thing people are ignoring is that Fedor has little or no control over his actual career - Vadmir and his "associates" in M-1 in Russia do.

another good point prolly. although if they were alone with fedor somewhere i'm sure he could exert some "control"

[Rich1033]

I like Overeem, but I cant see him passing a piss test. Maybe a Fedor vs Overeem fight could be worked out in Japan. That fight would be huge there.

Either way, Im over anything with Fedor and the UFC. Obviously he is not interested in any multifight deal with the them. Outside of UFC fighters... Werdum will have no chance, but I would like to see Rogers and Overeem. I cant think of anything else out there right now.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by SteveBollea

I think the thing people are ignoring is that Fedor has little or no control over his actual career - Vadmir and his "associates" in M-1 in Russia do.

Meh, Fedor owns part of M-1. He's just very loyal and doesn't really want total glory. I'd like to see him in the UFC, but it doesn't upset me that much to see him join Strikeforce. I really think there needs to be a viable alternative to the UFC for checks and balances and hopefully this helps that.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by "Dana White

I'm in Abu Dhabi right now and my reaction is Fedor is a [expletive] joke. [He] turns down a huge deal and the opportunity to face the best in the world to fight nobodies, for no money. Fedor is a [expletive].

Great level of respect. I can't understand why the weak and feeble Fedor didn't sign with the UFC.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Great level of respect. I can't understand why the weak and feeble Fedor didn't sign with the UFC.

Seriously. Dana White is a grade-A douchebag, and if I was the #1 fighter in the world I wouldn't want to work for his douchey-ass either.

[k0ruptr]

I'm kind of glad he didn't sign with the UFC, the UFC will save some money, Fedor probably wouldn't but there still is a chance he coulda been a bust with the UFC. for the money they were offering I think it's good he turned it down. I'll keep watching Fedor plow through lesser knowns , while the UFC heavyweight division keeps moving up.

Not to mention the new ultimate fighter might have a couple decent heavyweights come out of it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Meh, Fedor owns part of M-1.

Eh, I kind of get the impression that it's more the other way around.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I'm sure Fedor is concerned with your career advice and what you think of him.

jesus man, please remove Fedor's c**k from your mouth

Your oozing fanboyage all over the floor, i feel like im at the sherdog forums. We all get that you hate Dana White, but Fedor moving to the UFC would be amazing for the sport. Lesner vs Fedor would shatter any previous PPV buy for MMA and continue to help the sport grow.

Now he's at some half-ass organization because his 'owners' (M-1/The Russian Mafia) wanted to 'CO' promote the fights. That is just craziness. I hope he gets his ass stomped in strikeforce now and regrets passing up 10's of millions of dollar's.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Havok

jesus man, please remove Fedor's c**k from your mouth

Your oozing fanboyage all over the floor, i feel like im at the sherdog forums. We all get that you hate Dana White, but Fedor moving to the UFC would be amazing for the sport. Lesner vs Fedor would shatter any previous PPV buy for MMA and continue to help the sport grow.

Now he's at some half-ass organization because his 'owners' (M-1/The Russian Mafia) wanted to 'CO' promote the fights. That is just craziness. I hope he gets his ass stomped in strikeforce now and regrets passing up 10's of millions of dollar's.

I wouldn't say I "hate" Dana. I just think he's proven again and again that he's pretty sleazy (albeit a good businessman). See the lack of respect he has shown for fighters that have spurned him or guys he has cut loose in the past.

Yes, Fedor moving to UFC would be amazing for the sport and us as fans, but I contend that Fedor moving to Strikeforce and having the chance to become comfortable in the cage IN THE END might be even more amazing for the sport, rather than having him come in and being thrust into his first competitive fight in a cage against Brock.

It's been shown that Pride guys need to get accustomed to the cage...I'd rather have him do that against the Strikeforce division then be tossed first into a tougher match (if only because of his size) against Brock.

Yes it's not what the fan in you wants to see, but I think you can certainly argue that it's the best move for Fedor. And we certainly can't dispute that M1/The Russian Mafia doubtless have a strong role (maybe more than Fedor himself) in where he was going to end up.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I wouldn't say I "hate" Dana. I just think he's proven again and again that he's pretty sleazy (albeit a good businessman). See the lack of respect he has shown for fighters that have spurned him or guys he has cut loose in the past.

Yes, Fedor moving to UFC would be amazing for the sport and us as fans, but I contend that Fedor moving to Strikeforce and having the chance to become comfortable in the cage IN THE END might be even more amazing for the sport, rather than having him come in and being thrust into his first competitive fight in a cage against Brock.

It's been shown that Pride guys need to get accustomed to the cage...I'd rather have him do that against the Strikeforce division then be tossed first into a tougher match (if only because of his size) against Brock.

Yes it's not what the fan in you wants to see, but I think you can certainly argue that it's the best move for Fedor. And we certainly can't dispute that M1/The Russian Mafia doubtless have a strong role (maybe more than Fedor himself) in where he was going to end up.

I hope your right, because even though i am mad at him for signing with strikeforce, i do enjoy watching him fight. He is a machine. But he isn't getting any younger, and 5-6 fights at strike force will take him until he is at least 35, (he turns 33 in sept.). By the time that contract is up, his best will be behind him

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Havok

I hope your right, because even though i am mad at him for signing with strikeforce, i do enjoy watching him fight. He is a machine. But he isn't getting any younger, and 5-6 fights at strike force will take him until he is at least 35, (he turns 33 in sept.). By the time that contract is up, his best will be behind him

3 fights in the cage over 1.5 years (conservative) and he'll be mid-34. brock is only like a year younger than him.

[Neon_Chaos]

So who's next for Brock to discombobulate?

[dervack]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I wouldn't say I "hate" Dana. I just think he's proven again and again that he's pretty sleazy (albeit a good businessman). See the lack of respect he has shown for fighters that have spurned him or guys he has cut loose in the past.

Yes, Fedor moving to UFC would be amazing for the sport and us as fans, but I contend that Fedor moving to Strikeforce and having the chance to become comfortable in the cage IN THE END might be even more amazing for the sport, rather than having him come in and being thrust into his first competitive fight in a cage against Brock.

It's been shown that Pride guys need to get accustomed to the cage...I'd rather have him do that against the Strikeforce division then be tossed first into a tougher match (if only because of his size) against Brock.

Yes it's not what the fan in you wants to see, but I think you can certainly argue that it's the best move for Fedor. And we certainly can't dispute that M1/The Russian Mafia doubtless have a strong role (maybe more than Fedor himself) in where he was going to end up.

I would contend that the more difficult aspect for the Pride fighters to overcome was not their first time in the cage, but the fact that they actually are starting to get tested for steroids. But that's just my opinion.

And as a fighter, you don't have to like Dana White when you cash that $5 million dollar paycheck after your fights. M-1 is a joke. Why would Dana want to co-promote with a rival organization? Give them half the revenue from a card when their fighter is on it, on top of the reported $5 million a fight? How does that make sense? Is m-1 going to pay half the fighters salaries, including Fedor?

[Calis]

You know, is the 5 million(if that's what was really on the table) all that important to Fedor? He doesn't seem like the type that is out drinking Cristal everynight and buying bling.

Obviously his management are rolling the dice and hoping Strikeforce works out and they have a decent amount of control over a platform to push their guys. That's the reason they'd never sign with the UFC, because they wouldn't get that level of control.

It sucks, but I don't blame the UFC for not caving into demands and I don't blame Fedor for not wanting to sign. He is the one that has to work for them.

Dana has always been Dana. There is no middle ground with him. I tend to dislike him quite often, but also like him other times. If nothing else he really does have a passion for the sport and does want it to succed. Compare him to someone like Shaw who couldn't care less and was there to exploit and all the sudden Dana seems like a good guy.

I don't think Dana and Fedor could be any further apart personality-wise. I wouldn't be surprised if this clash had more to do with it than people think.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by Conference Call

Fedor: Numbers reported on the internet were not accurate with Zuffa's offer.
...
Fedor: We would have signed if reported numbers were accurate

.

[sovereignstar]

Also, Forrest Griffin versus Anderson Silva has the potential to be an awesome fight. Way more excited about that one than Penn vs. Florian, though that one could be good too.

[PilotMan]

WTH? No discussion tonight? I really don't think that Silva can lose to Griffin. I want him to, but I just don't see it happening. I think Griffin does just what Silva needs, comes forward, never stops. That is what will bring out the best in Silva, and Dana knows that too. Having said that, I think that was Silva's problem with his last two opponents. It's not that he's boring, but that he is a really good counter fighter, who needs to have that opponent who will commit.

I hope Florian wins his fight too.

[DaddyTorgo]

i want to order this, but i can't justify spending the $$ on it

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i want to order this, but i can't justify spending the $$ on it

Same...

I'd most certainly watch it if some of the other fights were good (on paper), but outside of the co-main events, I'm not feelin it.

[Recoil]

Download SopCast
Go to MMA-TV channel
Enjoy

[thesloppy]

Ouch. That was a fucking embarassment.

Spoiler

Forrest got completely dismantled, knocked out with a surgical, walking-away jab, after Silva spent the majority of the first round taunting him with his hands at his sides. Griffin may not have landed a single solid punch.

On a semi-related note, the UFC needs to not shill movies or video games, as they always go 1000% overboard and bring the entire cast to a UFC event, or get Frank Mir to spend 20 minutes telling you how awesome Assassin's Creed is.

[Recoil]

Silva is just too good. What an embarrassing performance from Forrest even though I was really pulling for him.

[Neuqua]

Silva is a stud, I really don't know who they can put up against him. GSP?

[PilotMan]

How many people have just admitted that this card was a waste of money, even before the final fight?

[DeToxRox]

lol @ people who thought Griffin had a chance. That was ugly.