Werewolf XLVIII - The horror of sorcery hill (Game over)

[LoneStarGirl]

What is the vote count?

2 on me and 2 on hoops?

[LoneStarGirl]

If you go after me you will not get a wolf and tomorrow is hopeless.

Render, why are you voting for me? Please don't tell me its because of what Hoops said about me

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

If I ever said that I was voting for you because you were alive past day two, (which I might have, but I dont remember and dont feel like looking) it was a joke. I am tired of people following you because you are Hoopsguy and believing every piece of BS you throw out there. Just because I don't have the time or patience to go through and analyze every post like you and Barkeep, doesn't mean that what I say or believe is crap. You made a big mistake with Lathum and people have already forgiven and forgotten... but if I would have done that, or ntn or path, we would be on the chopping block right now.

I don't think anyone is accusing you based on a lack of analysis on your part. However, from where I'm sitting, you've thrown out seemingly random accusations on something like five people (I don't have the time and patience to look back and count them all exactly) with very little reason why. On the other hand, I don't think anyone is following him because he is hoopsguy -- for the most part, I think hoopsguy is lagging behind here, still trying to figure out a lot of what's gone on.

Anyway, my hunch is that both hoops and LSG are wolves. I've put in a conditional order to throw my eternal bond potion at LSG. Hopefully she's a wolf, and this makes the wolves not want to kill me. But I'm thinking the best course of action is a vote for hoops, and bonding me with LSG.

[LoneStarGirl]

I am all for it pass. Do whatever you think is necessary to prove I am a villager. I hate that it wastes one of our potions, but I can live with that plan.

And I don't think I have thrown accusations at 5 players. The only player I have been set on from the beginning was Hoops. I might have made some suggestions about you and Path but never thrown accusations. Especially not 'seemingly random accusations'

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

If I ever said that I was voting for you because you were alive past day two, (which I might have, but I dont remember and dont feel like looking) it was a joke. I am tired of people following you because you are Hoopsguy and believing every piece of BS you throw out there. Just because I don't have the time or patience to go through and analyze every post like you and Barkeep, doesn't mean that what I say or believe is crap. You made a big mistake with Lathum and people have already forgiven and forgotten... but if I would have done that, or ntn or path, we would be on the chopping block right now.

I don't tell people to follow me because "I'm Hoopsguy!", but I do post, often in excruciating detail, what my thought process is during the game. I believe it is easier to get people to follow your actions if they understand your thought process.

If you don't have the "time or patience" to go through posts then why do you seem to resent BK and I for doing it? I would think our efforts would make it easier to extract value from your limited time to play the game.

If people seem to have "forgiven and forgotten" the Lathum incident, perhaps it is because they recognize that 1.) there was no incentive to make a play like that at Lathum yesterday 2.) the actually believe what I posted, that I made a mistake and felt lousy about it?

[LoneStarGirl]

I am waiting for Barkeep's long analysis of my posts like he has done for hoops and path

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I don't tell people to follow me because "I'm Hoopsguy!", but I do post, often in excruciating detail, what my thought process is during the game. I believe it is easier to get people to follow your actions if they understand your thought process.

If you don't have the "time or patience" to go through posts then why do you seem to resent BK and I for doing it? I would think our efforts would make it easier to extract value from your limited time to play the game.

If people seem to have "forgiven and forgotten" the Lathum incident, perhaps it is because they recognize that 1.) there was no incentive to make a play like that at Lathum yesterday 2.) the actually believe what I posted, that I made a mistake and felt lousy about it?

I never said that you tell people to follow you. They just do because they realize you are such a good player. And I dont resent y'all for going through and analyzing the posts, except when you get things wrong, like you did with Lathum. I could be wrong and you could be a villager who made a mistake, and if that is the case then I will say 'sorry hoopsguy' after the game is over... but right now I think you are a wolf.

[hoopsguy]

Votes, as of Post #956:

Hoops - Path (842), LSG (925), Pass (941)
Path - Hoops (911)
LSG - Barkeep (939), RendeR (940)

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, I feel like I've given the other person who passed me an item enough time to mention it by now.

NTN, why did you pass me a potion last night?

I passed you that recipe, because I thought it better to share it with someone I thought wasn't a wolf/sect member. And if I always passed to the same person, that would make them a bigger target. so I thought I should spread out who I pass to.

[LoneStarGirl]

And Barkeep, I am sorry if my post where I asked path for his ingredients 'screams wolf' to you but I have 3 things that I dont know what to do with, that nobody wants, and I feel the game would be a lot more interesting during this long weekend if we threw stuff at one another and cast spells.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Yes. I don't know why you thought path said anything about having the holy water, but it was always me who had it. Path sent a bunch of things, without question, and didn't ask for anything back. I guess my thinking is that he's done so much to help the village (gave us an ingredient for the holy water that I used, gave me an ingredient for the blinding potion, gave me both ingredients for eternal bond potion), so much more than several other people around here, it's hard to be looking at him as a wolf.

It sounds like you are listening to Path's interpretation, not what I said. I said that Path wanted to get the holy water last night, either through you passing it (didn't happen) or by taking it from Swaggs, who was also on your trust list. I have not said that he had it.

Do you think that the wolves are sitting back hoarding items, or do you think that they are playing the usual "get into a CoT" strategy by taking public actions to create a measure of trust? If it is the latter, the list of people to look at is pretty short - you and Path. Since I'm trusting you that steers me hard in Path's direction.

[LoneStarGirl]

ardent, ntn and render have been lurking for awhile...

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

It sounds like you are listening to Path's interpretation, not what I said. I said that Path wanted to get the holy water last night, either through you passing it (didn't happen) or by taking it from Swaggs, who was also on your trust list. I have not said that he had it.

Do you think that the wolves are sitting back hoarding items, or do you think that they are playing the usual "get into a CoT" strategy by taking public actions to create a measure of trust? If it is the latter, the list of people to look at is pretty short - you and Path. Since I'm trusting you that steers me hard in Path's direction.

Why are you trusting me over path?

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

ardent, ntn and render have been lurking for awhile...

just catching up.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Why are you trusting me over path?

Pass, you should read all of the posts from the last page or two for that. Hoops posted several longer posts a page back about this.

[Chief Rum]

I am holding off on my vote because I wnat to see what the Eternal Bond potion does.

[ntndeacon]

Of the three who have a vote, there isn't really a question of whom I vote. Path's willingness to send whatever is needed and the trust shown him by Pass makes me willing to trust him a bit more than some. Hoops has seemed good to me since very early in the game. (like day 2) So I have to vote for LSG.

Your plan is a good one, Pass. I just don't buy hoops as a bad guy this game.

Vote LSG

I would hear of other places to put this vote if needed.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

If you go after me you will not get a wolf and tomorrow is hopeless.

Render, why are you voting for me? Please don't tell me its because of what Hoops said about me

Honestly LSG my main reasoning is gut instinct, I just get a real bad vibe from you and the way you ask questions/ call people out etc etc. I admit my own inexperience is probably a problem in my lack of luck figuring out who the wolves are but I gotta start somewhere.

I will note that I have felt this way all game long, and each night have found a reason to vote for someone else, so you may yet get off my vote tonight.

This game has just been horrid. (FUn and exciting, just crappy from a villager perspective.)

[Poli]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

We have all pointed fingers at path, hoops, bk, me and a little at Pass but we have basically ignored NTN, AE, Chief and Render. One of those four have to be a wolf that is just staying out of our way. And from what I know about playing wolf with ntndeacon in that Marvel Comics game, he is a great wolf because he likes to stay out of the limelight.

I'm of the opinion that if we have three wolves, there in some sort of mix of:

LSG
NTN
render
hoops
path

BK and pass get the "pass" due to the holy water. Pass more for throwing it. BK, you said it might spell your doom, but I'm guessing Pass has to share equal fear as it cleared him in my book for throwing it. I'm still colored confused for that bit near the end last night as to how it doesn't quite clear BK, but meh. Whatever.

I like Chief for some of his late night analysis. Could be a wolf hiding out, but I don't think so.

LSG and ntn both make the list from that flippin marvels game. Funny lsg would mention that. I was thinking about the game on my drive back from the parties today. Both of them had me snowed like I was in Alaska.

Render is on the list because he's starting to grate on my nerves. It's my understanding he's still a little new to the game, but he sure seems to be playing the new guy doesn't know anything part a little much.

I've been on hoops side for most of this game, and it's time to reconsider it. I wonder if I haven't been ping ponged with my trust of hoops to this person and that person, buying useless information because there hasn't been any sort of seer reveal so far in this game. I'm really starting to feel like this is one of those friggin barkeep games where everyone's a bad guy eventually and I don't have a chance.

That said, I'll keep path in the suspect list because of what I've read that has me concerned. I like that he passed things to pass, but I assume the wolves would want to pass things just like anyone else.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

ardent, ntn and render have been lurking for awhile...

Was writing the previous long post and got logged out by the forum.

[Poli]

And moving the spare bedroom furniture stuff around as well in the process.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Why are you trusting me over path?

Mainly because I have to make some assumptions for today. If you are bluffing as a wolf and clearing BK, then well done by both of you.

Second, I've played more games with Path, on both sides and hope that I'm reading him correctly. The profile of his play that I've put together is consistent with what I think he would try to do as a wolf.

[Poli]

All that said, I'm going to vote now, but it's hardly solid.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, I've made up my mind where my vote is heading today.

Path has earned himself an elevated position of trust through the passing of items this game. However, when looking closely at the actions in Day 3, heading into Night 3, you can build a strong case for him as a wolf.

1.) He knows Pass has items, as this has been announced in the thread. Holy water is one of these items, something that just might concern the wolves, no?
2.) Potions are passed as a day action, results are received prior to night completion
3.) Path doesn't get notice on receiving the potion of holy water, so who else might have it given that Pass said he was going to move the item
4.) Kill Swaggs

However, Pass held the potion thus foiling that plan. They still took out a largely trusted villager, while retaining a villager that trusts Path nearly completely. So it isn't a waste, but the holy water was still in play. And has now been used, pseudo-clearing both Pass and BK for today. That isn't the result they are looking to achieve.

VOTE PATH12

CR, is this one of the main posts you're referring to? I guess my thinking is that I get where hoops is coming from here, but I don't see how this leads to path. I figure everyone knew that I had the holy water, and that I needed to pass it, and that the only people I trusted were path and swaggs. So regardless of who the wolves were, one of the kills would be me, path, or swaggs, and by the same token, I wanted to be sure the holy water stayed with one of the three of us. So...would we be saying the same thing about swaggs if path had been killed last night? Or about someone else if I had died?

[hoopsguy]

Pass, I would be looking hard at the CoT today no matter who had died. But I like to think that I would have drawn different conclusions if it had been Path as the night kill. It is easy to say at this point, but my trust for Swaggs was a fair amount higher than Path has been. I listed him as a person who made me uncomfortable back on Day 2.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

CR, is this one of the main posts you're referring to? I guess my thinking is that I get where hoops is coming from here, but I don't see how this leads to path. I figure everyone knew that I had the holy water, and that I needed to pass it, and that the only people I trusted were path and swaggs. So regardless of who the wolves were, one of the kills would be me, path, or swaggs, and by the same token, I wanted to be sure the holy water stayed with one of the three of us. So...would we be saying the same thing about swaggs if path had been killed last night? Or about someone else if I had died?

There were several posts, but that's one of them, yes. I'm undecided myself on hoops' theory about path myself. But you were asking why he suspected path, and that stretch of posts is the best answer to that.

It's possible. Everyone who is alive at this point has to be considered for wolfishness at this point.

[hoopsguy]

I strongly recommend we figure out a common alternate candidate for me. If it is going to be LSG, so be it. I think Path is considerably more likely to be a wolf but I know 100% I'm not a wolf. This would be my first time being lynched as a villager in about 30 WW games, and I figure I've earned it here, but I'm going to keep trying to convince you to bag a wolf instead of bringing us closer to losing at 10PM EST tonight.

[Chief Rum]

Anyone know if Alan is actually going to be around before the deadline? If not, I won't have the luxury of waiting for this potion to go off before voting.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I strongly recommend we figure out a common alternate candidate for me. If it is going to be LSG, so be it. I think Path is considerably more likely to be a wolf but I know 100% I'm not a wolf. This would be my first time being lynched as a villager in about 30 WW games, and I figure I've earned it here, but I'm going to keep trying to convince you to bag a wolf instead of bringing us closer to losing at 10PM EST tonight.

hoops, I'm willing to listen to alternatives -- do you have any others in mind besides path?

[Barkeep49]

I like LSG's defense. I still think she's on the wolfish side, but the votes have been a little too easy and makes me think that between that and her defense that she's being setup. I'd rather see things on path.

Unvote LSG
Vote path

LSG: I'm not sure I have the energy to go through and analyze your posts at this point. I remember why I stopped doing them, as they were time consuming and I'm not sure how helpful they are.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

hoops, I'm willing to listen to alternatives -- do you have any others in mind besides path?

Pass I think you're placing way too much trust in path. To me path is playing the "public" wolf game. He is, and I feel this has been forgotten, one of the must mischievous bad guys around and quite capable of pulling off such a tight rope act.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I like LSG's defense. I still think she's on the wolfish side, but the votes have been a little too easy and makes me think that between that and her defense that she's being setup. I'd rather see things on path.

Unvote LSG
Vote path

LSG: I'm not sure I have the energy to go through and analyze your posts at this point. I remember why I stopped doing them, as they were time consuming and I'm not sure how helpful they are.

What was her defense, again?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

What was her defense, again?

There's been no singular defense. It's just her attitude reminds me of her attitude as a villager.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, my alternate candidates depend a fair amount on Path. Today was the right day for Ardent to switch from supporter to adversary, as they need to get me today and the vote is in doubt. That one stuck out to me among the votes that I've seen so far. He passed me an item to build further trust, and has generally voiced trust in me (prior to today) that was elevated beyond the norm.

I'm guessing that another wolf has not yet committed their vote, lurking in the background to throw it on late if needed. This is a big vote for them.

Of course, speculating here on alternate candidates is probably not the best way for me to win friends and influence people here. If I name a villager, they are going to think I'm making a wolf move here. But I'm just trying to get my thoughts out now while they still have a chance to contribute value to our cause.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

There's been no singular defense. It's just her attitude reminds me of her attitude as a villager.

Your vote carries a lot fo weight with me BK, based on all the other info about you, How solid are you on the trust in LSG? I'm willing to move if someone offers up some serious trust or vouches for LSG. I understand totally that gut instincts can be wrong (note all the dead villagers thus far!)

[Chief Rum]

I am going to go ahead and vote, in case I am not back on before deadline. I am also concerend if Eternal Bond will kill Pass along with LSG, BTW, which is another reason tog o as I have done.

VOTE PATH

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I am going to go ahead and vote, in case I am not back on before deadline. I am also concerend if Eternal Bond will kill Pass along with LSG, BTW, which is another reason tog o as I have done.

VOTE PATH

This is exactly the sticking point I have right now and what makes me consider moving my vote.

[Passacaglia]

Well, my order to bond with LSG is conditional. If 9:30 eastern rolls around and I haven't changed my mind, then I bond with LSG.

[RendeR]

I'll hold off on changing/verifying my vote until we see what happens then. I hope to be around at this point, headache notwithstanding.

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Path, if you want to try and get into a game of semantics to discredit what I'm saying, that is certainly your perogative. However, this has nothing to do with Pass thinking Swaggs was passing you a potion. It has to do with you not ending up with the holy water -which you had knowledge of prior to the night actions - and then acting in a manner to simultaneously take out a trusted player and go hunting for items.

You don't understand, hoops. There would not be any holy water at all if I had not passed the holy flask to Pass. He would have plain old spring water. I found the holy flask in the kitchen night 1, and tried to research it in the library night 2. Then Pass early day 3 asked if anyone had a special container, so I passed it to him.

As for Pass thinking Swaggs was going to pass me an actual potion instead of the recipe for one, I have nothing to say about that. All I know is that Swaggs passed me the recipe.

The fact that you're pushing this misleading line so strongly leaves little doubt for me about your allegiance this game.

[Barkeep49]

Render: I don't think you should weigh my statement on LSG more or less heavily than anyone else.

[Barkeep49]

And hoops do you have a vote count for us?

[path12]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

And Barkeep, I am sorry if my post where I asked path for his ingredients 'screams wolf' to you but I have 3 things that I dont know what to do with, that nobody wants, and I feel the game would be a lot more interesting during this long weekend if we threw stuff at one another and cast spells.

I <3 LSG.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Render: I don't think you should weigh my statement on LSG more or less heavily than anyone else.

I'll keep this quote in mind then, thanks for saying so.

[path12]

If you lynch me then there are at least two wolves in the hoops/Barkeep/Chief group. They are just too smart to misread so badly what I've done this game.

[hoopsguy]

Vote count, as of Post #995:
Hoops - Path (842), LSG (925), Pass (941), Ardent (973)
Path - Hoops (911), NTN (967), Barkeep (980), Chief (986)
LSG - RendeR (940)

[Chief Rum]

You know what my fear is?

That we're all talking about villagers here, and the real wolves are ardent, NTN and render.

[hoopsguy]

Path, do you really think that the wolves have basically just sat back and hoped that we would screw the game up for them as their strategy? That there have not been attempts to gain trust at some juncture?

Just as a good exercise in checking your assumptions, who do you think is a wolf if you accept that I'm not a wolf and that I'm pushing (again) in the wrong direction here?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You know what my fear is?

That we're all talking about villagers here, and the real wolves are ardent, NTN and render.

That would be something.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

That would be something.

You see, the question for me is, what evidence have any of those three provided usthey are not wolves? It strikes me that all three are playing low-key, stay out of the way sorts of games. Not UTR, per say, because they have all been active. But have any of them really said anything? And in a game where I think we're kinda chasing our tails, this is exactly the way to stay unlynched. We're so busy trying to make the evidence match our suspicions (based on little but gut instinct), that we may be ignoring other potentially strong candidates.