NFL 2023 Offseason/Free Agency/Draft Thread

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't think league not having relationships with the betting app companies would stop players from using the apps (though it might stop them from catching the players that do).

Sure. I'm not blaming the NFL as much as saying the culture of gambling, both under the auspices of the leagues and out from under them, will inevitably lead to these problems. You can't have one without the other.

And I'm sure the leagues understand that. Promoting and encouraging gambling is worth more to them than they lose in these minor scandals. It will take something way worse than these to even start hearing opposition to gambling from pro leagues.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

When the message is:

GAMBLE GAMBLE GAMBLE GAMBLE GAMBLE GAMBLE not you GAMBLE GAMBLE GAMBLE

it's inevitable that there will be problems.

When the message is DRINK DRINK DRINK DRINK don't drive DRINK DRINK DRINK


it's inevitable that there will be problems.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't think league not having relationships with the betting app companies would stop players from using the apps (though it might stop them from catching the players that do).

Agreed. This is an excuse not an actual thing. There is zero chance players don't understand the rules. They chose to ignore them.

[Solecismic]

Sometimes you can have a rational, understood policy, but when it's put in place, there's a piece of it that isn't working.

The guy who bet $1,000 on his teammate's rushing yardage - no fixing stupid there. You have to come down hard.

Players betting on other sports from hotel rooms or facilities using their own phones... you have to look at that and decide whether you want to come down full force, or just give a game now and make that a point of emphasis this season.

At some point relatively recently, someone discovered that for some people, whatever itch makes them sit in front of a slot machine for hours, entranced by occasional wins and flashing lights, works even better if they sit in front of their phone for hours, able to do the same thing with live sporting events.

There are billions and billions of dollars out there, and it's easy to tap into. There are even fake sporting events out there you can bet on, simulated like a commissioner would simulate FOF multiplayer.

This brings up ethical concerns. Is it OK to make a product (this type of instant gambling - you can make hundreds of different prop bets at any time) that some people will use obsessively, spending money they might need for rent or child care? We call it a gambling addiction, but where's the line and how do you draw it?

For most of us, I assume, gambling is a minor thing or makes no sense at all. I don't bet on anything. I took a trip to Reno in my 20s and tried, blackjack counting system memorized and even utilized properly, but when it came time to do it and actually see it working, I found I hated every minute of it. That's not to claim it as a virtue - I think it's valid entertainment - but whatever gene there is that triggers happiness over winning in gambling just isn't in me.

No easy answer. You wish you could tell the sports leagues not to take the gambling company money, but it's not that simple. For a long time, it was handled by keeping gambling in Nevada and there was an informal agreement not to place a pro team in Vegas of any kind. The sports books didn't allow college betting on UNLV or Nevada games.

But now, with the internet, the offshore companies unregulatable, it just became too much for other states to ignore and here we are. And the pro leagues are anxious to locate in Vegas now. Not sure why, it's the 42nd largest market in the US, but there seems to be a lot of money there to tap into. Maybe it's just about building fancy new stadium complexes.

I think this is as difficult an issue as legalizing drugs. Though thankfully with less consequences for those who get addicted.

[Lathum]

Pro teams want Vegas because people travel there to see their home team and make a weekend out of it. Whenever a Vegas team plays there are just as many away jerseys as home ones on the strip.

[miami_fan]

Tipping point - How Dan Snyder nearly survived as Commanders owner - ESPN

Has there ever been a movie adaption based just on an ESPN article? Because I want to see one of those ten day to shoot five days to edit movies based on everything in this article.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I have read pretty much the exact opposite in an article quoting current players...something along the lines of "Yeah, they told us, but it was team officials relaying the information in the middle of a third day of 6-hour meetings...it was easy to miss"

Maybe the current players quoted simply aren't very bright nor have adequate attention spans

[NobodyHere]

Maybe different teams just delivered the information with different emphasis.

[thesloppy]

I think the NFL publicly needing to clarify/expand on those rules AFTER suspending players pretty much speaks for itself.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I think the NFL publicly needing to clarify/expand on those rules AFTER suspending players pretty much speaks for itself.

I took that more as being for the fans, media, outside world in general and how they were reacting. IOW the players do know, now we better explain it to those that haven't attended the meetings or been in the facilities that think this is somehow unfair.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I took that more as being for the fans, media, outside world in general and how they were reacting. IOW the players do know, now we better explain it to those that haven't attended the meetings or been in the facilities that think this is somehow unfair.

All of the articles I read said exactly the opposite: those clarifications were made explicitly for and to players and league/team representatives.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

All of the articles I read said exactly the opposite: those clarifications were made explicitly for and to players and league/team representatives.

I've seen former players on morning talk say the meetings are quite clear and in your face. Along with the signage in all of the facilities.

In any case if they don't know now? I'm thinking it's their fault. Or course we're talking about players and clubs that don't give two shits about me.
Why should I care what they do?

[thesloppy]

Sure, I don't think anybody is arguing they don't know now, the issue is that the NFL suspended several players before clarifying those rules to the players.

[miami_fan]

The gambling violations over the last year or so remind me more and more of the steroids era. Yes, 'roids were always illegal but unless the league saw someone with a needle in their butt, most players could get away with it. When baseball began testing and as the testing and technology got more sophisticated, they caught more steroid users. I think it is the same with the gambling. This was in an article in The Athletic.

The NFL tracks players’ phones, and although the NFL’s policies don’t extend to family members and associates, the league is made aware of all NFL bets placed at the home of a player. “It may well be that we come back and ask you about it because we’re gonna get a ping on it because of the geolocation technology,” Perel said. “(The player) shouldn’t have any involvement in it, and then equally important that you haven’t shared any inside information as they’re placing that bet.”

Players are being monitored 24/7 by the NFL’s internal resources and “third-party providers,” according to Perel. She added that the league is constantly adapting to keep up with the ever-growing and ever-changing world of sports betting.

Call me naive but I refused to believe that this was the very first time a guy like Isiah Rodgers opened up an account in his friend's name, placed bets and had the misfortune of also being the time he got caught during his first time betting in that way. I am not saying he should not have been suspended and cut from the team. I just think that the technology caught up to his scheme.

Sidenote: The NFL tracks players' phones? They are made aware of bets placed from their house? Players are being monitored 24/7 by the NFL’s internal resources and “third-party providers? Yeah I know that is what the money is for but give the general paranoia of Americans today, I am surprised the players would allow that sort of invasion of privacy.

[Solecismic]

Playing innocent explanation: players are given a team smart phone for communication and study, along with the tablet.

Betting was made legal, in agreement with the leagues, as long as sites collect geolocation data about every bet and automatically scan selected locations (player homes, homes of people who are known to have gambling addiction issues). That would also cover a player using a personal phone connected to his team's intranet.

The gambling sites don't want to get caught without support from the powers that be. With that support, they can advertise, make it sounds like the most fun you've ever had (without actually having to interact with a real human being).

I'll buy that the players have been told the rules. The number of suspensions tells me they have not been listening. Now they will, but I'll maintain that they could have gotten to the same place with one-game suspensions.

[thesloppy]

I don't know how that crucial first presentation(s) of those new gambling rules were done, but my impression from how things went down is that the NFL let the teams make that first presentation to their players. Teams may have chosen to present/prioritize those rules in inconsistent manners, and considering the results/aftermath it certainly seems possible that people who didn't fully understand the rules were in charge of explaining those rules to players....but that's a lot of assumptions.

..I also think there's plenty of nuance in this discussion. On one end Isaiah Rogers was suspended indefinitely for betting on NFL games. Jameson Williams was suspended 6 games for betting on a college football game from his hotel room while on a Lions roadtrip. Seems like the majority of people think the first case was 'fair' and the second was not, and it's easy to insist that the rules were/weren't obvious depending on which perspective you're thinking of at the moment.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I don't remember all of the details with the Ridley suspension but my perception at the time was his case was all about him betting on his own team. I thought that was the no no as opposed to him gambling at all, where he gambled or even betting on the NFL games that did not involve his team.

The league are putting out these six key rules of the gambling policy.

1. Don't bet on the NFL.

2. Don't gamble at your team facility, while traveling for a road game or staying at a team hotel.

3. Don't have someone bet for you.

4. Don't share team "inside information."

5. Don't enter a sportsbook during the NFL playing season.

6. Don't play daily fantasy football.

They all seem simple enough now. It will be interesting to see how 3 and 4 are policed. To use a polarizing example just for the sake of being extreme, how will we know if Jackson Mahomes is not placing bets for Patrick or if Patrick did not share inside information with Jackson.

I don't think 3 and 4 are policed. I suspect they're used when an investigation indicates they're warranted. I see those like insider trading. No one really polices insider trading on a day-by-day, individual-by-individual basis. But when something looks weird and people start investigating and they see insider trading, then they start levying the statute.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Maybe the current players quoted simply aren't very bright nor have adequate attention spans

A bunch of young men hopped up on testosterone who likely haven't been told "no" for the entirety of their young lives. I know I'm shocked as well.

[Ksyrup]

I know this belongs in a different thread, but on the subject of insider sports betting, the details that came out of the Alabama baseball coach firing are so ridiculous they border on hilarious. This is how NOT to insider bet.

Not sure the connection, but he got a guy who is the father of a current UC baseball player to place bets.

For starters, Neff tried to place a $100,000 wager on the Alabama-LSU game at the BetMGM Sportsbook inside Great American Ballpark in Cincinnati. The game had gotten almost no gambling traffic other than that, which was reason enough to flag the bet.

But it gets much worse.

According to Forde, Neff told the ticket writers that the reason he wanted to bet $100,000 on the game is that he had inside information. He was texting with Bohannon at the time on an encrypted messaging app called Signal. Using sportsbook surveillance cameras, investigators were later able to zoom in on Neff’s phone and see the details of the text conversation with Bohannon.

“(Video cameras) can see the (text) conversation back-and-forth,” a source familiar with the investigation told SI. “It couldn’t have been any more reckless.”

[henry296]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I don't think 3 and 4 are policed. I suspect they're used when an investigation indicates they're warranted. I see those like insider trading. No one really polices insider trading on a day-by-day, individual-by-individual basis. But when something looks weird and people start investigating and they see insider trading, then they start levying the statute.



A bunch of young men hopped up on testosterone who likely haven't been told "no" for the entirety of their young lives. I know I'm shocked as well.

This feels just like all of the other mandatory corporate training that i get on insider trading, protecting data, sexual harassment, etc. You take the test / listen to the speaker but it doesn't sink in for everyone all of the time and some people get caught, but the business/league can say they were told.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I know this belongs in a different thread, but on the subject of insider sports betting, the details that came out of the Alabama baseball coach firing are so ridiculous they border on hilarious. This is how NOT to insider bet.

Not sure the connection, but he got a guy who is the father of a current UC baseball player to place bets.

LOL! This reads like the final draft of an AI script that forces the studios to cave in to the Hollywood writers because the technology is not good enough yet. They tried so hard to be discreet by using Signal only to be foiled by a camera. That's too funny.

[Thomkal]

DeAndre Hopkins signs a 2 year deal with the Titans. I look forward to you being totally healthy now that you are not a Cardinal anymore

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

DeAndre Hopkins signs a 2 year deal with the Titans. I look forward to you being totally healthy now that you are not a Cardinal anymore

$12 Million per year is not a bad deal if he stays healthy.

[stevew]

Jordan Addison was driving like he transferred to UGA. How are you going 145?

[bhlloy]

In a 55 no less. I’ve done 105 on a freeway with relatively few other cars around and it scared the living shite out of me. 140 in a 55 is unbelievable stupidity and he’s incredibly incredibly lucky his career isn’t over before it even started.

[Butter]

Because he was drunk as shit

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Butter

Because he was drunk as shit

Source?

[Ksyrup]

The Commanders name might only be a thing for the next year. Gotta make the new ownership group some cheap money with a rebrand.

[flere-imsaho]

It's a dumb name, though.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The Commanders name might only be a thing for the next year. Gotta make the new ownership group some cheap money with a rebrand.

It'll help wash away the stench of Dan Snyder.

[albionmoonlight]

Dan Snyder no longer owns an NFL team.

This is a good day for the league.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

It's a dumb name, though.

Eh. Is "Packers" a good name? "Steelers"? After generations they are, but if they were introduced today they would be killed.

[flere-imsaho]

That's the point, though, Packers & Steelers have some sort of historic resonance. Anyway, "Commanders" is dumb in a way Jaguars, Panthers, and Texans are not

[GrantDawg]

I really don't see it. It makes sense with the region, and a military-like tie in also makes sense. In 20 years, it will sound like every other NFL team.

[Edward64]

Some possible new names. As a Hog fan, I like #3 or #2.

New Commanders co-owner teases name change: Ranking the top five alternatives for Washington's NFL team - CBSSports.com

5. Washington Majors
"Presidents" would give them the commanding D.C. ties they're half-heartedly evoking with "Commanders," but in today's polarizing political climate, do they care to be associated with every sitting U.S. president? "Majors" is more military-aligned, but it packs more of a concise punch than "Commanders," doubling as a statement of status among NFL teams.

4. Washington Redtails
The team has previously downed any possibility using "Red" because of trademarks, but come on. This is a $6B operation; where there's a will, there's a way. "Redtails" has been a longtime fan favorite for its historical ties to the Tuskegee Airmen, the famous African-American pilots who fought in World War II. It also bears some resemblance to Washington's best-known nickname.

3. Washington Redhogs
This gets even closer to the team's own roots. "Hogs" has long been a nickname in and around the franchise, so it'd only be fitting to see a promotion here. It's possibly the best way to pay tribute to team history while embarking with a new identity.

2. Washington Pigskins
Don't laugh. Yes, there's a bit of inherent silliness; it essentially means they'd be the Washington ... Footballs. But in a sense, there's no better moniker for an NFL team, and the bonus is it sounds awfully close to their most famous identity, also enabling them to appropriately revive the shortened 'Skins nickname.

1. Washington DC Football Club (DCFC)
This is kind of dependent on the new regime moving the franchise out of Landover, Maryland, and literally into D.C., which is a possibility because of future stadium plans. But the simplicity brings back the unexpected charm of the "Washington Football Team" days without reverting entirely to that era. Skeptics will say it's too much like a soccer team, but who cares? The DCFC abbreviation could catch on quickly, igniting stadium and living-room chants for years to come.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Some possible new names. As a Hog fan, I like #3 or #2.

New Commanders co-owner teases name change: Ranking the top five alternatives for Washington's NFL team - CBSSports.com

1. yikes
2. yikes
3. yikes
4. yikes
5. yikes

[stevew]

Commoders is a dumb name and virtually anything is better.

[NobodyHere]

I'm still down for the Washington Tooth Fairies (WTF).

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by stevew

Commoders is a dumb name and virtually anything is better.

People over-blow everything so much.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by stevew

Commoders is a dumb name and virtually anything is better.

Actually, Commoders would be superior to Commanders.

[cuervo72]

They should just name them the Burgundy and Gold, it's what everyone calls them around here anyway.

[flere-imsaho]

Yet Another Perpetually Disappointing Washington DC Sports Team.

Or the YAPDWDSTs, for short.

[Sweed]

Washington should change to "Comics".

[Ksyrup]

As if the Russell Wilson trade couldn't get any worse, the player who they picked with the 4th round pick they got from Seattle in the Wilson trade is the guy who just suspended indefinitely for gambling.

[miami_fan]

{Cue Michael Buffer voice imitation}


AND THE NEW... highest-paid quarterback based on average annual value in NFL history! JUS-TIN HERRRRBERRRRT!

Sources - Chargers, QB Justin Herbert agree to 5-year, $262.5M extension - ESPN

[miami_fan]

Sean Payton coming in HOT! Coaches are not supposed to do this to other coaches. Nathaniel Hackett may not get a chance to be the head coach of a NFL Flag football team.

Sean Payton pinpoints blame for Russell Wilson's woes, Broncos' flop

What happened last year with Wilson?

“Oh, man,” Payton began. “There’s so much dirt around that. There’s 20 dirty hands, for what was allowed, tolerated in the fricking training rooms, the meeting rooms. The offense. I don’t know Hackett. A lot of people had dirt on their hands. It wasn’t just Russell. He didn’t just flip. He still has it. This B.S. that he hit a wall? Shoot, they couldn’t get a play in. They were 29th in the league in pre-snap penalties on both sides of the ball.”

Yet another layer of the Wilson saga involved the kid-glove handling he received from Hackett, which fueled much speculation and criticism as the season (which ended at 5-12) spiraled out of control. Wilson, a 12th-year pro, has employed a support staff for years that includes a personal athletic trainer, a strength and conditioning coach and massage therapist. Yet boundaries were apparently blurred by the presence of Wilson’s personal quarterback coach, Jake Heaps.

Not anymore. When Payton was hired in February, he made it clear that Heaps would not have access to the team’s facility.

“That wasn’t his fault,” Payton said of Wilson. “That was the parents who allowed it. That’s not an incrimination on him, but an incrimination on the head coach, the GM, the president and everybody else who watched it all happen.

“Now, a quarterback having an office and a place to watch film is normal. But all those things get magnified when you’re losing. And that other stuff, I’ve never heard of it. We’re not doing that.”

[Ksyrup]

I sure hope he turns it around, but man I hope Twitter still exists for the memes if the Broncos go 7-10 this year and Stidham is the QB for the last 3 weeks.

[Ksyrup]

Probably nothing significant, but nothing like a little leg injury scare for a SB contender on July 27th.

Burrow was just flushing out of the pocket and it looked like runners do when they pull a hamstring.

Obviously in this moment have no idea what happened, merely what it looked like.

Sat on ground for a few with Mixon next to him before the cart came and took him in. pic.twitter.com/B2g0afSZzM

— Paul Dehner Jr. (@pauldehnerjr) July 27, 2023

[GrantDawg]

Oh boy. This is the play Joe Burrow suffered his injury …. and it does not look good.

(�� @CalebNoeTV)

pic.twitter.com/HMlDtOznDB

— Ari Meirov (@MySportsUpdate) July 27, 2023

[GrantDawg]

Hope it is nothing, but non-contact injuries....

[GrantDawg]

Yeah, that's what I said Mr. Syrup.