2015-2016 Republican Primary Season - Trump Courts the Conservatives

[nol]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Afaic, the end of that restriction -- no, that's not accurate. Really the end of some form of narrowing of the voting pool to something far in excess of the lowest common denominator -- was quite likely the biggest mistake this country ever made.

The masses, the truly unfettered masses, aren't capable of such an important task. And we prove that on a regular basis these days.

We've been a dying nation for many years, likely since the 60s at least. The cancer of liberalism seemed to really spread during that era, inevitable that it would eventually kill us. I'm simply not enjoying being around while the body decomposes.

Hmm, wonder what particular event(s) from the 1960s Jon is referring to.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by nol

Hmm, wonder what particular event(s) from the 1960s Jon is referring to.

Nope, not that one. At least not particularly or specifically.

Remember, I have frequently dated the downfall of the U.S. to the rampant liberalism of the Vietnam era.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My Way News - Bush slashing spending, shifting staff amid campaign woes

[stevew]

Yes, Bush looks to be in serious trouble and may be done.

I guess I don't really follow the types of shows he would be on, but doesn't he really have a low national profile? Seems like he isn't particularly known outside of his home state and the things he's known for link him to people that most conservatives wouldn't even like (his dad, his brother).

Can he escape this race early enough so that he can do a Romney type thing and run in 2020?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by nol

Hmm, wonder what particular event(s) from the 1960s Jon is referring to.

The part where poor people started voting only for Democrats and they are still poor?

[JPhillips]

Was that the same 1960s where the poverty started at @20% and ended @11%?

Cause that 1960s didn't seem to be too bad for the poor.

[Dutch]

Then what's the problem?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

My Way News - Bush slashing spending, shifting staff amid campaign woes

Bush not making it to the end of the primaries would be one of the biggest WTF moments in history. For months, he was seen as the likely nominee.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Bush not making it to the end of the primaries would be one of the biggest WTF moments in history. For months, he was seen as the likely nominee.

Frankly, if Bush drops out before any of the remaining fringe GOPers, it would be one of the biggest WTF moments in history.

Getting beat would be WTF enough but having, like, Lindsey Graham outlast him?

[sabotai]

Didn't McCain do the same during the primaries back in '08? It looked like he ran out of money, was slashing spending, etc. and everyone thought his campaign was dead?

[Solecismic]

This is serious trouble for Bush. The problem with depending so heavily on these bundlers is that if they don't see movement in the polls, you're done. And even if you aren't done, you're so beholden to them that you might as well be done.

Rubio has to start making a move or Trump may actually have a chance after all. Carson could still win Iowa, but Iowa's structure heavily favors the evangelical side of the party. Santorum won Iowa in 2012, then scored 9% in New Hampshire a week later.

[JPhillips]

Trump has basically zero organization. I'd be shocked if his vote total didn't significantly underperform his polling.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Didn't McCain do the same during the primaries back in '08? It looked like he ran out of money, was slashing spending, etc. and everyone thought his campaign was dead?

Yeah, but as crowded as the '08 primaries were, they were HALF THE SIZE of this year's GOP field. And nobody really seized the party zeitgeist the way Trump/Carson have done so far. Guiliani ran on a platform of 9/11, Fred Thompson was...I don't even know what the fuck he was doing. Ron Paul tilts at all the windmills, Alan Keyes has sanity issues and nobody knew who Duncan Hunter was.

In other words, McCain didn't need to be in a dominant position when he started having money troubles. He just needed to be able to survive until people started casting ballots. I mean, that oversimplifies the matter, but he had the advantage of having 1 1/2 serious opponents and a much smaller field (I say 1 1/2 because Huckabee's traction outside the Guns, God, Grits and Whatever Belt is kinda non-existent).

I'm not sure Bush has that leeway. He has to deal with a pair of disruptive outsiders AND try to fend off the other 2-3 establishment candidates still in the race, and he's having money trouble in the process.

Originally Posted by Solecismic

This is serious trouble for Bush. The problem with depending so heavily on these bundlers is that if they don't see movement in the polls, you're done. And even if you aren't done, you're so beholden to them that you might as well be done.

Rubio has to start making a move or Trump may actually have a chance after all. Carson could still win Iowa, but Iowa's structure heavily favors the evangelical side of the party. Santorum won Iowa in 2012, then scored 9% in New Hampshire a week later.

And much of the Bible Belt chimes in just a month later. the primary schedule in general favors the evangelical candidates early.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump has basically zero organization. I'd be shocked if his vote total didn't significantly underperform his polling.

Trump has the money to flood the airwaves with ads a week or two before any given primary, though, and he doesn't need fundraisers to get that capacity. That's what makes him dangerous. He doesn't have long-term infrastructure in the states in question, but if he gets on the ballot, he's perhaps uniquely positioned to engage in some guerilla campaigning. Where he starts needing that infrastructure is if he wins the nomination and has to start worrying about the general election. But at this point? He can run a vanity campaign and spend the money right before the primary/caucus in states he thinks he can win.

[JPhillips]

Jeb Bush just can't even...

"If this election is about how we're going to fight to get nothing done, then ... I don't want any part of it. I don't want to be elected president to sit around and see gridlock just become so dominant that people literally are in decline in their lives. That is not my motivation," he said.

"I've got a lot of really cool things I could do other than sit around, being miserable, listening to people demonize me and me feeling compelled to demonize them. That is a joke. Elect Trump if you want that," Bush added.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Jeb Bush just can't even...

Did he really say "really cool things"? Srsly?

[JonInMiddleGA]

My Way News - AP-GfK Poll: Republicans view Donald Trump as most electable

If he maintains that sort of advantage then it might be down to a two-horse race for the nomination (Carson had the next highest numbers).

[SirFozzie]

If Trump and Carson are the Repub options, then it's going to be a Dem Wave Election.

[RainMaker]

If Hilary is the presumptive nominee, you have to wonder if Dem voters will show up and vote for Trump in the primary in some states.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If Hilary is the presumptive nominee, you have to wonder if Dem voters will show up and vote for Trump in the primary in some states.

Insiders versus outsiders, I'd definitely take my chances with that matchup.

By all means, I encourage Ds to give the Rs an actual candidate for the first time in too many years. The help would be appreciated.

[Solecismic]

This is why Trump won't win the nomination... his default mode is self-destruct. Yes, 7th-Day Adventism is hard-line fundamental on many counts. The Armageddon stuff is kind of hard to take, but they don't preach it from the rafters. It's also a small religion. And one that goes as far as to have its own schools and hospitals.

But there's also a deep distrust of the government, and they probably would have supported Trump heavily if Carson faltered... until this. Also, it hurts him with African Americans. Adventists are very integrated and a model of a post-racial society in many places. If he found a way to work with Carson instead of his default crazy attack mode, it would be a good way to show African Americans that the Republican Party can listen. Trump doesn't listen, and doesn't seem to want to learn.

Donald Trump: No apology for questioning Ben Carson’s Seventh-day Adventist faith - The Washington Post

Combine this with the crazy strategy of thinking the Benghazi committee should have had Hillary on the stand for more than 15 minutes (just pin her down on the two basic lies she has told and let her answers stand) and the Democrats just had a very good week.

[molson]

Trump also has expressed liberal positions on just about every relevant issue, and yesterday he said he wanted to end the hostility between Democrats and Republicans. And yet with all we've read here and in the polls the last few weeks about how so many Republicans want a candidate will be tough on the issues and be "at war" with the other side, there he is.

Trump is a player unless something big changes, and I don't think anything he says is going to change anything. He's said everything. And I saw today he was up 26 in New Hampshire and 17 in South Carolina. Carson has narrowed the lead in many other places and nationally, and I know we all expect one of the other three top "insider" candidates to make some kind of a move at some point, but it's hard to imagine Trump won't still be very relevant by the time the primaries kick off.

[stevew]

Yeah when I look at a lot of Trump's positions I wonder why he's so popular among Republican voters.

[Thomkal]

Meanwhile with Chris Christie...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/25/politi...35pVODtopPhoto

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yeah when I look at a lot of Trump's positions I wonder why he's so popular among Republican voters.

His obvious disdain for some many people plays quite well. He probably holds almost as many people in contempt as I do.

His home run on immigration alone covers a lot of ground with a lot of voters. And I mean a LOT.

But using ontheissues.org as a quote source (the citations are there if anyone is curious)

He's giving the party what they need on abortion (while I personally disagree with him)

The "need a businessman to bring us back" about the budget resonates pretty well within the party

Political correctness is country's problem, not my problem plays exceptionally well.

His opposition to Common Core certainly sits well within the rank-and-file (I personally disagree with him about the concept, agree with the execution)

Climate change is a hoax.

A vague to the point of empty comment about "importance of a strong family, & a culture of Life". Meh, but it'll ring with a segment of voters

Foreign policy is at least a foul ball, a double and a crushed home run
Putin has no respect for America; I will get along with him. (Sep 2015)
We must deal with the maniac in North Korea with nukes. (Sep 2015)
More sanctions on Iran; more support of Israel. (Jun 2015)

A very strong person on the Second Amendment. (Jun 2015)
I am against gun control. (Feb 2011)

He's kind of a mishmash on the middle east
I'm pro-military but I opposed invading Iraq in 2003. (Sep 2015)
If Obama had attacked Syria, we wouldn't have refugees now. (Sep 2015)
Opposed Iraq war in 2004 & predicted Mideast destabilization. (Aug 2015)
Disgraceful deal gives Iran a lot & gets nothing for us. (Aug 2015)
Boots on the ground to fight ISIS. (Jun 2015)
I said "don't hit Iraq," because it destabilized Middle East. (Jun 2015)
Hit ISIS hard and fast. (Feb 2015)

I disagree with him more than I agree with him on those ... I think. But you'll find an array of positions within the party (and, honestly, he's so all over the place that you can pick a sub-topic & probably find something that pleases most voter)

About the only heavy-duty fuck ups I've seen off hand are these
Raise graduated taxes on hedge fund managers. (Sep 2015)
One-time 14% tax on wealthy to pay down national debt. (Jun 2015)

The much bigger problem for Trump is with what he hasn't said:
There hasn't been a substantive quote on crime attributed to him since 2000.

Last drug one was from 2011 ... I'm cautiously hoping his position has "evolved" (his words about abortion) since then

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

This is why Trump won't win the nomination... his default mode is self-destruct. Yes, 7th-Day Adventism is hard-line fundamental on many counts. The Armageddon stuff is kind of hard to take, but they don't preach it from the rafters. It's also a small religion. And one that goes as far as to have its own schools and hospitals.

The thing is - and this isn't about Trump specifically but about faith and the Republican Party in general - once you start questioning *anybody's* faith, it's open season on everybody's faith.

When Kennedy ran against Nixon, the concern was whether Kennedy's Catholicism (and thus veneration for the Pope as the Vicar of Christ) meant that his allegiance wasn't to the United States first. Sound like anything Ben Carson has said recently?

Certainly since 2001, whenever the right talks about Islam, it's antagonistic or accusatory. They believe lying to heathens in the service of the faith is perfectly okay, so you can't believe anything any Muslim has to say even if he or she appears to be a perfectly peaceable, law-abiding citizen, etc. Maybe that was an undercurrent in the party pre-2001, but it certainly wasn't in the mainstream the way it has been since.

Then you get a black guy with a Muslim biological father elected, and it didn't matter that he asserted his faith as Christian. I don't even have to satirize the things that were said about what sort of faith he REALLY had. I mean, I could, but the things that were said were frequently crazier than any kind of satire I could come up with.

If Mitt Romney had run for President as a Democrat, I wonder how much tolerance there would have been from the center-right over his being a Mormon. I have Protestant family who described their support of him as tepid because of that, but voted for him because he wasn't Barack Obama.

Donald Trump saying "I don't know" about Seventh-Day Adventism is just the logical progression in religious politics in the Republican Party.

I mean, the reality here is that there's a certain undercurrent in the GOP of Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879 versus the Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912. They'll put up with Christian candidates whose Christianity isn't mainstream Protestant come the general election, but non-Christian and, to a certain extent, non-mainstream Protestant standing will make them squirm. Carson isn't going to lose any support over Trump's comments, not directly, but there is a political payoff to raising questions about Carson's faith when it's primary season, and not general election season.

I think this is probably pretty far down the list of "self-destruct" comments for Trump, honestly, and nothing he's said has sunk his ship yet.

But there's also a deep distrust of the government, and they probably would have supported Trump heavily if Carson faltered... until this. Also, it hurts him with African Americans. Adventists are very integrated and a model of a post-racial society in many places. If he found a way to work with Carson instead of his default crazy attack mode, it would be a good way to show African Americans that the Republican Party can listen. Trump doesn't listen, and doesn't seem to want to learn.

African Americans don't make up a huge section of the Republican electorate, and it's still so far before the general election that even should he win the nomination I very much doubt that any aspersions he casts upon the faith of an African American Christian in October '15 is going to be remembered a year from now unless the Democratic candidate is much better on holding Republican feet to the fire than that party has traditionally shown.

Combine this with the crazy strategy of thinking the Benghazi committee should have had Hillary on the stand for more than 15 minutes (just pin her down on the two basic lies she has told and let her answers stand) and the Democrats just had a very good week.

putting Hillary on the stand for 11 hours in the aftermath of the McCarthy comments implying that the Benghazi committee was designed to sink Hillary's candidacy was...not bright. Maybe you do that in six months, if the committee is still going, but 11 hours of testimony now, while those comments are still fresh in everybody's mind, just reinforces a narrative, and it ain't the one the GOP wants reinforced.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

This is serious trouble for Bush. The problem with depending so heavily on these bundlers is that if they don't see movement in the polls, you're done. And even if you aren't done, you're so beholden to them that you might as well be done.

A good point. A candidate can save themselves a bit if they've got fervent support who are willing to come out of the weeds to volunteer/donate, but it does not appear Bush has even this.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump has basically zero organization. I'd be shocked if his vote total didn't significantly underperform his polling.

I don't know about this. Articles I've read indicate he has had people putting together state organizations for a while now and they're getting significant lift from the large numbers of fervent volunteers who have been signing up.

Originally Posted by Solecismic

This is why Trump won't win the nomination... his default mode is self-destruct.

Combine this with the crazy strategy of thinking the Benghazi committee should have had Hillary on the stand for more than 15 minutes (just pin her down on the two basic lies she has told and let her answers stand) and the Democrats just had a very good week.

I don't know. Trump taps in directly to the portion of the GOP electorate (who can and will come out large for primaries) who prefer (whether they know it or not) drama over substance. He's already weathered several gotcha moments that would have sunk other candidates. At this point it's worth considering if he's actually teflon.

I still believe he's going to have a hard time of it when the field narrows sufficiently that the media & other candidates bring focus to bear, but at that point the real question will be who is still in with a chance. If Bush drops out, the only real "mainstream" candidate left is Rubio, and his actions so far given me no confidence he's going to be able to spar with Trump.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

putting Hillary on the stand for 11 hours in the aftermath of the McCarthy comments implying that the Benghazi committee was designed to sink Hillary's candidacy was...not bright. Maybe you do that in six months, if the committee is still going, but 11 hours of testimony now, while those comments are still fresh in everybody's mind, just reinforces a narrative, and it ain't the one the GOP wants reinforced.

Putting Hillary on the stand was a complete own goal, unforced error from the GOP. Did they really think they could ruffle someone who's been in the public eye, under intense scrutiny, for 25 years?

Instead they just gave Hillary 11 hours to look presidential and composed which a) makes the GOP clown show look even worse and b) appears to have brought new people to the Hillary camp, including demographics (i.e. younger) who have been going for Sanders.

Gowdy may just have handed the Oval Office to Clinton.

[albionmoonlight]

From what I am reading, neither Trump nor Carson are really investing in ground game and infrastructure.

And I don't think that the Benghazi thing will help Hillary. People who were never going to vote for her are still never going to vote for her. Whose opinion did that change?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

And I don't think that the Benghazi thing will help Hillary. People who were never going to vote for her are still never going to vote for her. Whose opinion did that change?

I don't think there's polling out yet, but this is the directional stuff I read:

Her aides quickly followed up with details highlighting the impact of October: 100,000 new donors this month alone and a record hour of online donations as soon as the Benghazi hearing concluded – even though the Clinton campaign did not issue any fundraising calls around the proceedings.

More than half of the donations that poured in on the day of the hearing, the campaign added, were from new donors; 99% of them were smaller donations of $250 or less.

[lighthousekeeper]

Interesting to see how the candidates failed to oppose passage yesterday's CISA Bill.

Paul - didn't vote
Graham - didn't vote
Rubio - didn't vote
Cruz - didn't vote


How does a Republican who favors less intrusive government find a candidate to support?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Interesting to see how the candidates failed to oppose passage yesterday's CISA Bill.

Paul - didn't vote
Graham - didn't vote
Rubio - didn't vote
Cruz - didn't vote


How does a Republican who favors less intrusive government find a candidate to support?

You vote for Bernie Sanders?

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

His obvious disdain for some many people plays quite well.

Yes, I'm sure his contempt for the very people he is supposed to lead is going to be the wave that just sweeps him right into office.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Yes, I'm sure his contempt for the very people he is supposed to lead is going to be the wave that just sweeps him right into office.

Plays better than you might think IMO. Vast numbers of people figure he means everybody but them.

And, honestly, he probably IS better overall than 80-90 percent of the voters. He's sure as hell figured out a way to move a lot of money (not always very well, granted) through his hands, certainly more than most folks.

edit: he really doesn't hold that many more in contempt than I do, so I can relate pretty well to that {shrug}

[miked]

Is moving money through one's hands the sign that you are better than others?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by miked

Is moving money through one's hands the sign that you are better than others?

Ponzi was one hell of a man then.

[albionmoonlight]

My prediction for tonight: Carson has trouble handing being the frontrunner, and he has a bad debate. Trump has trouble handing not being the frontrunner, and he has a bad debate.

Bush continues to be unable to hide his astonishment and disgust at the fact that he is somehow forced into these shouting matches with a reality TV star.

In the vacuum created at the top by their fall, Rubio and Cruz end up breaking out a bit as the Establishment vs. the Conservative. Rubio starts to consolidate Bush's support, while Cruz takes some of Carson's and Trump's support.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Interesting to see how the candidates failed to oppose passage yesterday's CISA Bill.

Paul - didn't vote
Graham - didn't vote
Rubio - didn't vote
Cruz - didn't vote


How does a Republican who favors less intrusive government find a candidate to support?

I want to like Rand, I really do. But this kind of non-action makes it hard.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

My prediction for tonight: Carson has trouble handing being the frontrunner, and he has a bad debate. Trump has trouble handing not being the frontrunner, and he has a bad debate.

Bush continues to be unable to hide his astonishment and disgust at the fact that he is somehow forced into these shouting matches with a reality TV star.

In the vacuum created at the top by their fall, Rubio and Cruz end up breaking out a bit as the Establishment vs. the Conservative. Rubio starts to consolidate Bush's support, while Cruz takes some of Carson's and Trump's support.

This seems like a solid, logic-based prediction.

Which is why there's virtually zero chance of it coming to fruition.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

Is moving money through one's hands the sign that you are better than others?

Trump is, like it or not, smarter than the average bear.

He's managed to appear as "successful" despite having flopped with a LOT of cash. That ain't a trick for the stupid.

In a world where at least 80% of the people*I encounter are simply too f'n stupid to have been worth the trouble, that's notable afaic.


*For those who've missed it, I've referred to "The Rule Of The 80" more than once I'm sure since it's one of the very first things I specifically got -- and kept -- from the internet. That means it's been part of my lexicon for at least a couple of decades now.

[miked]

I never said he was not smart, you said he was better, which I guess is a vague, meaningless term. I took that to mean you felt he was a better person, which I would argue that he's probably in the bottom 10%.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Trump is, like it or not, smarter than the average bear.

He's managed to appear as "successful" despite having flopped with a LOT of cash. That ain't a trick for the stupid.

In a world where at least 80% of the people*I encounter are simply too f'n stupid to have been worth the trouble, that's notable afaic.


*For those who've missed it, I've referred to "The Rule Of The 80" more than once I'm sure since it's one of the very first things I specifically got -- and kept -- from the internet. That means it's been part of my lexicon for at least a couple of decades now.

Trump could've put his money into an index fund and come out just as rich or probably even richer than what he is now. And that's w/o having to go to bankruptcy court for several of his companies.

So I don't know if he's smarter, but he did inherit a lot more.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

I never said he was not smart, you said he was better, which I guess is a vague, meaningless term. I took that to mean you felt he was a better person, which I would argue that he's probably in the bottom 10%.

I'd probably argue right now that he's better than most. He's on the short list of people willing to say at least part of what needs to be said about illegal immigration. He doesn't cower in fear of political correctness, that alone puts him ahead of the curve.

[cartman]

But he also has a long history of just saying things just for the sake of a reaction, and not really meaning it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

But he also has a long history of just saying things just for the sake of a reaction, and not really meaning it.

I take this quote from a few months back to be pretty straight up:

"I've always said that if you're a very successful person ... it's very hard to run for political office, especially the office of president, OK? I'm proving that," he said. "Because Macy's chokes and NBC is weak and they choke. And I understand that."

I absolutely love calling the cowards out like that frankly.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And look, whether his positions will hold up in the long haul & get my vote, still up in the air.

I will say that to this point he's on the short list of people who seem to even have the potential to be worthy of it.

[Ryche]

I honestly have no idea whether Trump believes the things he says or if he is just saying what he things the Republican base wants to hear to get elected. So many of his positions now are different from what they were just 5-10 years ago and you generally don't see people change that significantly from where they were at 50 years old.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ryche

I honestly have no idea whether Trump believes the things he says or if he is just saying what he things the Republican base wants to hear to get elected. So many of his positions now are different from what they were just 5-10 years ago and you generally don't see people change that significantly from where they were at 50 years old.

If he'll act on his words I don't know that I really give a damn what he thinks on his own time. I'd settle for doing the right thing for pretty much whatever reason, it'd be an improvement over the large numbers that aren't willing to even do that. If he doesn't follow through then we have a problem

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If he'll act on his words I don't know that I really give a damn what he thinks on his own time. I'd settle for doing the right thing for pretty much whatever reason, it'd be an improvement over the large numbers that aren't willing to even do that. If he doesn't follow through then we have a problem

And that's the problem, if he doesn't believe it, I have no reason to think he will follow through. That's part of the whole he thinks he smarter than everyone else problem.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ryche

And that's the problem, if he doesn't believe it, I have no reason to think he will follow through. That's part of the whole he thinks he smarter than everyone else problem.

It's a gamble, I get that.

But most of the other choices provide no hope whatsoever of anything meaningful happening anyway, failing to even give lip service to being anything more than willing collaborators. That still keeps him at the head of the field at the moment.

[Solecismic]

A quick JV rundown...

The CNBC debate focused almost entirely on the economy. All four candidates sounded fairly similar. There was very little conflict (I expect this to be different later tonight).

I don't like CNBC's 30-second limit on many responses. That was a little rough. It will get much rougher in the main event when candidates go 10-15 minutes without an opportunity to speak.

Santorum has the debate experience and had his best performance in a long time. Keep him away from social issues and he does very well. I think he was the clear winner, if winning means anything tonight.

Pataki had his moments, but sounded a bit preachy. I don't think he can gain votes by admitting he'd vote for a bill he didn't like solely to get one piece of that bill through. This isn't reaching across the aisle - it's called appeasement.

Jindal stuck more to his prepared sound bites. He still seems quite weary that he hasn't gained traction in the race.

Graham had a rough start, ignoring questions to deliver what he had prepared. He also has a habit of changing his mind as to the most important issue in his candidacy. But he's more solid when he's off-the-cuff.

Overall, not a game-changer for any of the four. Santorum would appeal to me if he weren't on the religious right wing. But I don't think this will light a fire under anyone's candidacy. I remain surprised that Jindal is still in the race.