Werewolf LVIII: Clash of the Gods (GAME OVER)

[Racer]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

My guess was that Neon and Hoops actually each did the other one. Just a wild ass guess, but it would explain why neither event recurred day 2.

Also, hoops keeps saying everybody was trusting Barkeep and I don't think that's true. I didn't trust Barkeep, and I don't think Lathum did either.

We should know for sure after tonight, right? I say this because I assume if they did that to each other, they each would target different players tonight.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Anyone seen Raiders Army recently?

He said he was going to be out for most of the day.

[st.cronin]

Hoops, I understand that, but as has been pointed out many times there are reasons to be skeptical of traditional vote analysis in this game.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Back from the Minotaur's lair - I was kidnapped and placed there. Based on how I read the PM, I don't believe that the Minotaur is a player in the game but instead is a power someone has to remove a person from the game.

With two people removed on Day 1, I have a sneaking suspicion that one was a good guy using a power. But neither Medusa nor a Minotaur sound all that benevolent ...

Okay, continuing up on my last post. I looked back on the first page Minotaur was listed as a possible player in this game. So could Neon Chaos and Hoopsguy be monsters then?

[Racer]

By the way, if Hoopsguy and Neon Chaos are monsters, does that mean that they are on the side of the Olympians?

[hoopsguy]

I'm not a monster, but I would say that no matter what side I'm on.

In fact, I've been suspicious of Neon Chaos most of the game but I think we are ignoring lessons to be learned in the Day 1 vote. I find it very hard to believe that Path was the only titan voting for Barkeep on Day 1. I think that is the best place to look for today's vote.

I'll return to other candidates like Neon, Racer, Schmidty, Arlington, and whoever other people want to discuss after we get a little more clarity on the Day 1 stuff. Or, obviously, if someone has information that helps identify a Titan.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not a monster, but I would say that no matter what side I'm on.

Why?

[hoopsguy]

If I was a monster I wouldn't want to admit it.

Since I'm not a monster, I will tell you that I'm not because I don't want you to make a bad assumption/vote.

[hoopsguy]

OK, here is the vote recap from Day 1 in an order that is a little easier for me to work with than the one Telle posted earlier.


Post #60 - Barkeep votes Hoopsguy
Post #127 - DT votes Neon
Post #131 - Neon votes DT
Post #132 - Anxiety votes Anxiety
Post #135 - Purdue votes Neon
Post #136 - Pass votes Anxiety
Post #140 - Raiders votes Anxiety
Post #143 - RendeR votes Telle
Post #144 - Lathum votes Hoops
Post #147 - AE votes Anxiety
Post #159 - NTN votes Barkeep
Post #178 - Telle votes Anxiety
Post #201 - Schmidty votes Anxiety
Post #206 - Barkeep unvotes Hoops
Post #209 - Racer votes Hoops
Post #210 - Lathum unvotes Hoops, votes Barkeep
Post #212 - Cronin votes Barkeep
Post #213 - Anxiety drops "rarely warlike" hint
Post #219 - Hoops votes Lathum
Post #261 - Chief votes Barkeep
Post #277 - AC votes Barkeep
Post #287 - Anxiety reveals he is Ares
Post #289 - RendeR unvotes Telle, votes Racer
Post #315 - Barkeep vots Path
Post #316 - AE unvotes Anxiety, votes Neon
Post #324 - RendeR unvotes Racer, votes Path
Post #325 - Pass unvotes Anxiety, votes Barkeep
Post #328 - DT unvotes Neon, votes Path
Post #330 - Neon unvotes DT, votes Path
Post #352 - Path votes Barkeep
Post #360 - Telle votes Barkeep (not valid?)
Post #370 - Cronin unvotes Barkeep, votes Neon
Post #375 - Hoops unvotes Lathum, votes Neon
Post #376 - Telle unvotes Anxiety, votes Barkeep

[RendeR]

So lets look again at those voting for BK on day 1:

Chief Rum - vote barkeep (261) - Still an option, no evidence one way or the other on CR

Lathum - vote Hoopsguy (144), vote barkeep (210) - Revealed as BG, no denials by anyone else, arued solid points all day and kept hounding his position, a wolf isn't going to go after another wolf on day one. I'm willing to trust Lathum

ntndeacon - vote barkeep (159) - Dead, Dyonesis

ArlingtonColt - vote barkeep (277) - Revealed as Ares God of War, not verified, not denied by anyone else either.

Passacaglia - vote Anxiety (136), vote barkeep (325) - Dead, Athena

Telle - vote Anxiety (178), (vote Barkeep (360) - forgot to unvote), vote barkeep (376) - Nothing to go on here, she was around late, had to catch up and placed a vote. Viable choice.

Path12 - vote barkeep (352) - Lynched - Cronus, King titan.



So from this we have only 2 options if we want to ferret out another titan in this group. I believe there IS one hereassuming we hold that AC is telling the truth and IS Ares)

Chief Rum
or
Telle

I like Rum's day 1 analysis and the way he's presented evidence. He hasn't tried to really defend himself so much as just put out good information, is that a wolf being a damned good wolf? maybe.

If I trust my gut and leave off CR for today then I have to vote telle. She's been catching up well and has put forth some good questions and commentary.

IF I had to choose between the two right now I would have to vote telle.

Discuss?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Racer

By the way, if Hoopsguy and Neon Chaos are monsters, does that mean that they are on the side of the Olympians?

As I posted earlier, i don't think either of them is a monster. I have my theories as to at least one monster but I have no way to verify it at this time so I'll just keep my mouth shut about it.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, here is the vote recap from Day 1 in an order that is a little easier for me to work with than the one Telle posted earlier.

Well next time be more explicate about format!

I swear I need to find a way to use a database instead of a spreadsheet.. some quick ad-hoc queries and data is presented in any way I want! Yes, I'm a data-geek.. I admit it...

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, you are right where I'm at with my voting decision today.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I like Rum's day 1 analysis and the way he's presented evidence. He hasn't tried to really defend himself so much as just put out good information, is that a wolf being a damned good wolf? maybe.

Problem is, you can't go with Chief Rum putting out a lot of analysis as a good sign that he's a villager. I've seen him do this when a wolf and it made me put him on my likely-villager list then.. so I don't tend to trust him without something a lot bigger than that anymore

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Telle

Problem is, you can't go with Chief Rum putting out a lot of analysis as a good sign that he's a villager. I've seen him do this when a wolf and it made me put him on my likely-villager list then.. so I don't tend to trust him without something a lot bigger than that anymore

I agree completely, but coupling that with my gut instincts and I can't pull the trigger on CR yet, which leaves me voting for you and probably sleeping on the couch =(

[Telle]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I agree completely, but coupling that with my gut instincts and I can't pull the trigger on CR yet, which leaves me voting for you and probably sleeping on the couch =(

You know, you've been going by "gut instinct" a lot in this game.. and really directing the votes where you want them. Now you're obviously not a Titan.. but I can't help but wonder if you're one of those that has their own victory condition.

[RendeR]

I win as an Olympian, so of course I have my own victory conditions, ust like every non-titan-aoigned Olympian.

[RendeR]

god I can't type.....

[hoopsguy]

I'm willing to wait to hear what Chief Rum has to say before casting a vote. But if there isn't a reason to go after the existing reveals (Lathum, Anxiety, or Arlington) then it is almost certainly going to be either Rum or Telle getting my vote tonight.

In the meantime, I'll keep asking questions as I think of them ...

[Telle]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I win as an Olympian, so of course I have my own victory conditions, ust like every non-titan-aoigned Olympian.

Well you have a theory about who is a monster.. and mentioned that maybe monsters can only use their power every other night.. and claimed that your power didn't work last night...

And there's another human role unaccounted for.

[RendeR]

What about the other folks? If we have the day 1 voters for BK narrowed down to CR and Telle, lets dig into Day 2 voting and see what we can come up with there.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm willing to wait to hear what Chief Rum has to say before casting a vote. But if there isn't a reason to go after the existing reveals (Lathum, Anxiety, or Arlington) then it is almost certainly going to be either Rum or Telle getting my vote tonight.

In the meantime, I'll keep asking questions as I think of them ...

Well would it help if I revealed then? You all say we shouldn't do any more reveals, but then go and penalize those that don't reveal???

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Telle

Well you have a theory about who is a monster.. and mentioned that maybe monsters can only use their power every other night.. and claimed that your power didn't work last night...

And there's another human role unaccounted for.

No no, my ability failed TODAY. Not last night. It is not a night action sort of tihng. It worked fine the first two days. My problem is figuring out if its something to do with my power itself or the person I tried to use it on today that made it fail.


I have a hunch about Medusa. It caught my eye during day one, so perhaps someone else can catch it also and we can see if we come to the same conclusion.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I have a hunch about Medusa. It caught my eye during day one, so perhaps someone else can catch it also and we can see if we come to the same conclusion.

Don't suppose you can narrow it down to a page?? Day 1 is long

[hoopsguy]

Telle, I haven't argued one way or the other on reveals, although others certainly have. I've only said that I don't 100% trust the reveals so far as honorable Olympians. But on the three that are out there so far we haven't had anyone come out with a claim that they are false.

[Lathum]

OK, I just caught up.

ArlingtonColt is really pinging my radar right now.

Day 1 he votes Barkeep under the pretense of it being a random vote on day 1, but also buying into my theory.

I'm going with Lathum's theory here.. and its just a random day 1 vote for me... sorry

well which is it? random or following a theory? It can't be both.

Then he votes for me unprovoked and with no explination, after going along with me day 1

He then reveals for no reason at all, after claiming day 1 that reveals are a bad thing.

I'm going out to eat tonight with my g/f and I'm not sure if I'll be back before the deadline...

I am Hephaestus the God of smithing, an olympian.

He then brings up conversions when as far as I can tell they aren't listed in the rules.

Maybe they are trying to hit the convert? Especially with abilities I could see where this would make some sense. Or they don't think our revealed roles are worth anything and aren't working about a CoT building if they can eliminate all the "strong" roles first

He then claims to not know how to use his ability

Look... I understand the skepticism, but if I reveal an awesome ability don't you think that they will murder me in the night? Maybe my ability is some kind of powerup? Maybe it's a dud... I'm not really sure to be honest.

He then claims to feel good about a vote for me today, ummm, ok, but I am pretty sure there are better candidates.

Im feeling good about a Lathum or Telle vote today. Lathum was the most vocal and came to the defense of path MULTIPLE times on the day 1 vote. He was the only person to defend him too.

He also references Telle several times, I am wondering if they are trying some titan vs. titan play.

[Lathum]

VOTE ARLINGTONCOLT

this will only be a 1 AP vote.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Telle, I haven't argued one way or the other on reveals, although others certainly have. I've only said that I don't 100% trust the reveals so far as honorable Olympians. But on the three that are out there so far we haven't had anyone come out with a claim that they are false.

So in your mind, if I now revealed and nobody contested it then that moves me into the same category as ArlingtonColt and Lathum as people who voted for BK and have revealed?

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, do you see any harm in saying who you used your power on that failed? That certainly could be noteworthy, particularly if you had used your day-time power already on an Olympian who has already passed away (BK, NTN, Pass).

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Telle

So in your mind, if I now revealed and nobody contested it then that moves me into the same category as ArlingtonColt and Lathum as people who voted for BK and have revealed?

Telle, I would tell you that if you are an Olympian, or aligned with our cause, to take the action that you think is best for us as a group. Often that means doing something that is good personally, like keeping yourself from being lynched.

I know I fight like crazy to avoid being lynched as a "villager" and I would not condemn someone for doing the same.

As far as how I would view it, I would trust it a whole heck of a lot more if there was something in the reveal that gave me a reason to trust it, or could be vouched by someone else. That hasn't been the case for the three earlier reveals.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

RendeR, do you see any harm in saying who you used your power on that failed? That certainly could be noteworthy, particularly if you had used your day-time power already on an Olympian who has already passed away (BK, NTN, Pass).

I don't see how revealing that could hurt ME any, but It won't help the person I tried it on I think.

If you think it'd be worth risking some suspicion thrown that persons way I'd be willing to say who it was.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Telle

Don't suppose you can narrow it down to a page?? Day 1 is long

I'd have to go back and look to be honest, but its more of an ongoing all day thing that got my attention.

[Telle]

Ok, I'm leaving for home shortly and I don't know how much time the little ones are going to give me to get on this evening.. so I'm just going to "put it all out there".

I am Asclepius - God of medicine. I have something of a weak seer ability. I can mix potions that allow me to "learn" something while in a drugged state. After Day 1 I learned that Achilles is one of the human roles active in the game. After Day 2 I learned that Apollo was scanning me.

And in an effort to save my own hide, I'm going to put all of my votes on the current front-runner..

VOTE SCHMIDTY

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

What kind of information did you get on me?

In the very section that you quoted, I said it didn't work.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I don't see how revealing that could hurt ME any, but It won't help the person I tried it on I think.

If you think it'd be worth risking some suspicion thrown that persons way I'd be willing to say who it was.

Well, I don't know what your power is so I left the phrasing pretty open-ended.

I don't have a problem with putting suspicion on anyone in the game - there are no sacred cows in terms of players. Two sacred cows left in terms of roles (Hades and Poseidon), but is there a reason to think that your power would not work against one of them?

Your role, your decision, my two cents.

[Lathum]

Telle's reveal confuses me?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Telle

But you realize.. nobody saw you make that dice role.. nobody heard you make that agreement in your head. It very well could just be a distracting story and a way to hide your vote.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that it just seems odd to me and is something to look at. Most certainly not damning proof of any kind

Do you honestly think it would be good wolf strategy to vote yourself on day one? That'd be crazy, and I don't play crazy as a wolf (for proof of how I do act when under Day One scrutiny as a wolf, see last game). I might play UTR as a wolf, I might play helpful villager as a wolf, and I might play "Attacks a specific person" as a wolf, but I don't play crazy as a wolf. I'm too rational for that. (In Myers-Briggs terms, I have such a dominant T that I can't ply a game except rationaly, and taking a big risk just to see what happens is not rational).

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

In the very section that you quoted, I said it didn't work.

Do you consider that a point in my favor or a strike against me?

Also, have you had another opportunity to use your power?

Do you know what kind of information you would have gotten about me if you had been able to locate me? For example, Telle's reveal sounds like she doesn't know going into the night what kind of information she will learn.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Telle's reveal confuses me?

Seems a bit overly complicated, but there have been roles that twisted before.

[Lathum]

I believe Anxiety.

If it was anyone else in the game I would be skeptical, but not with him.

[RendeR]

And to respond to Hoopsguy:

It was You and It failed, no reason given, simply failed to happen.

[RendeR]

Anyone got a current vote count?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Seems a bit overly complicated, but there have been roles that twisted before.

the timing of it seems odd.


why reveal?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Anxiety, have you used your power once or twice? If only once, then why not twice?

Once a day. Not telling what happened on Day one.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

the timing of it seems odd.


why reveal?

Yeah, it does seem a bit odd. But she may feel that the way hoops and I are arguing the day 1 voting situation and her possibly not being able to get back in time tonight due to the kids all ad up to wanting to add the insurance of a reveal.

Note that almost everyone has stated as much that more reveals garner less and less trust.

Especially considering the type of role she revealed. something seer-like seems like an awfully useful thing to throw to the wolves, so to speak.

Hrm....Couch...vote....couch....vote....

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Telle

Ok, I'm leaving for home shortly and I don't know how much time the little ones are going to give me to get on this evening.. so I'm just going to "put it all out there".

I am Asclepius - God of medicine. I have something of a weak seer ability. I can mix potions that allow me to "learn" something while in a drugged state. After Day 1 I learned that Achilles is one of the human roles active in the game. After Day 2 I learned that Apollo was scanning me.

And in an effort to save my own hide, I'm going to put all of my votes on the current front-runner..

VOTE SCHMIDTY

Short of revealing my role and ability, I can verify this. You're in my CoT, Telle, along with DT and Render.

The noose is tightening, Titans. Bring it on.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so I'm undetectable by Anxiety on Day 2 - not a huge surprise as I was kidnapped (Minotaur's lair).

However, you trying to take action against me on Day 3 and failing is a big surprise. I've got a bunch of questions that I would like to ask about this, but I don't want to force you into talking about your role if you are not prepared to do so. So, how about this - you ask me questions and I'll try to answer them.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Telle

Ok, I'm leaving for home shortly and I don't know how much time the little ones are going to give me to get on this evening.. so I'm just going to "put it all out there".

I am Asclepius - God of medicine. I have something of a weak seer ability. I can mix potions that allow me to "learn" something while in a drugged state. After Day 1 I learned that Achilles is one of the human roles active in the game. After Day 2 I learned that Apollo was scanning me.

And in an effort to save my own hide, I'm going to put all of my votes on the current front-runner..

VOTE SCHMIDTY

Wow.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, so I'm undetectable by Anxiety on Day 2 - not a huge surprise as I was kidnapped (Minotaur's lair).

However, you trying to take action against me on Day 3 and failing is a big surprise. I've got a bunch of questions that I would like to ask about this, but I don't want to force you into talking about your role if you are not prepared to do so. So, how about this - you ask me questions and I'll try to answer them.

My ability does not work "against" anyone, it is a non-threatening ability.

I am not writing off the possibility that someone ELSE is acting against me to llimit my power also. I can't think of anything I could ask that would help without giving myself away entirely.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I certainly did not expect you to name me, RendeR. I did not receive any kind of PM related to you at all today.