Lakers vs Magic and the 2008-2009 NBA Playoffs/Finals Thread

[TroyF]

A couple of quick thoughts:

1) JR is really the only Nugget who can D up on Kobe. Melo, Kenyon, Jones and even Balkman can get him in stretches, but JR is the only one with the talent that can keep up. In the Nuggets lone win vs. the Lakers this year, it was JR Smith who was on him a majority of the game. I'll go as far as saying JR is the second biggest key to this series. ( 1st key is defensive rebounding) JR is the guy that can give the Lakers fits of the dribble. He can get to the hole at will and can create chances for his teammates when he's playing well. Or he can be a brain dead moron who can play Denver right out of a game)

2) RainMaker is dead on about Kobe. The Nuggets need to use the same strategy they applied to Dirk. Let him get his and make sure nobody else goes off. In the two games in Denver, Kobe shot a combined 21-55 this year. He went 23-37 in the two games in LA. Denver had a great chance to win the first game. It was a seven point loss that was tied heading into the fourth quarter. (sadly, we had no PG at the time and we sucked in the fourth quarter.) We won the second time at home.

The Nuggets can win a game where Kobe goes off for 45. They have no chance winning a game where Pau and Bynum combine to score 45 points unless they are going crazy from three point land.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The Nuggets can win a game where Kobe goes off for 45. They have no chance winning a game where Pau and Bynum combine to score 45 points unless they are going crazy from three point land.

I dont think that is accurate. Unless Kobe shoots 45 times in a game

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Billups is better than Brooks but is not the type of PG that gives the Lakers fits. Teams with quick PGs who can get in the lane have been their achilles heel all year.

It'll be a good series but I still think the league will tighten up the officiating at some point which will hurt the Nuggets physical play. Don't be surprised to see Martin and Nene in foul trouble early in the big games.

I think the Nuggets best bet is to work on shutting down everyone but Kobe. The Lakers play for shit when they just defer to Kobe every trip down the floor. Give Kobe his 35 but don't let Pau or Odom beat you.

The man knows what he is talking about.

[Neon_Chaos]

Very sloppy game for both the Lakers and Nuggets. 13 turnovers each, and it's just the third quarter.

[MikeVic]

I like that LeBron/Kobe puppet commercial. "Why do we live together?" haha.

[Neon_Chaos]

ARIZA WITH THE STEAL!!!

[Neon_Chaos]

Kobe sinks two free throws... 4 point lead for the Lakers with 10 seconds left.

[Neon_Chaos]

Wow. Billups is good.

[Warhammer]

Foot was on the line though.

[Warhammer]

Good win for the Lakers. I think this could have a big effect on the psyche of the Nuggets. They blew through the first two rounds, got into a game where they very well could have, and maybe should have won, and the Lakers still won. How they come out in Game 2 will be very important.

[Neon_Chaos]

Aye.

Should be a great series if Game 1 is the norm.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I dont think that is accurate. Unless Kobe shoots 45 times in a game

Disagree. The Nuggets played about the perfect game tonight. Let Kobe have his and don't let anyone else go crazy. Kobe went 13-28. His teammates went a combined 24-62. (38%)

The Nuggets lost the game tonight because:

1) They missed 12 FT.
2) They had 2 horrific possessions where they didn't get it to Melo with the lead.
3) They followed those possessions with a killer turnover.

This is the exact blueprint for Denver to win games against the Lakers. Fisher hit a big, big shot. . . but that's a shot I love him taking in that situation. He's been horrible in the postseason and he's the exact guy I want taking that shot. Tonight he hit it and the Nuggets didn't follow with solid execution. Props to the Lakers, they deserved that W.

As far as the Nuggets psyche, everyone has stated this all playoffs. First it was could they win the first game at home against the Hornets. Then after the game 3 loss to the Hornets (in a very similar game to this one by the way), people questioned how their psyche would bounce back from that. They won the next game by 58 points. Then it was the Mavs and how we'd compete in Dallas with Dallas being so good at home over the previous two months. They won one and had a shot in the other one there. Before tonight it was how would they adjust to playing a healthy Lakers team loaded with talent. They answered that too.

I don't think the Nuggets go anywhere. The Lakers will probably win the series, but they'll have to fight for every game. Unlike the Lakers, the Nuggets don't take off days, they bring it every night. I'd expect game 2 to be a lot like this game.

Oh. . . and for those people who have thought Melo was overrated. . . if you aren't shut up by the performence tonight, I give up trying to explain how special of a player he is.

[Galaril]

Great game and tough loss for the Nuggs.If JR SMITH is hurt series over. But, I think the Nuggets will come out really on fire next game plus they should have a great chance at home in the three games in Denver if they can compete and actually dominate LA at home.

[MrBug708]

Melo proved he belonged in the convo. As you said Troy, Nuggets played their perfect game nearly, but still couldnt pull it out.

Jerry West was dead on. Leron is gonna be special, but if you want someone with the ball when the game is on the line, it's Kobe.

[Chief Rum]

With my Clips traditionally celebrating the draft lottery at this time of the season (come on down, Griffin...), I often end up cheering for the Lakers, mostly because Kobe is my favorite player in the league.

I root for the rest of the team more because Kobe's on it, and that's about it.

Tonight's game reinforced to me something that started creeping up on me during last year's Finals and has only continued this year: I really can't stand the rest of that godforsaken roster, even former Bruins Farmar and Ariza. It just feels like none of them have the sack and heart to step it up when needed. The Lakers won tonight because Kobe finally said, "Okay, screw y'all, I'll just do it myself." Not saying Fisher's play or occasional good plays by others aren't necessary, but when push comes to shove, everyone on the Lakers seem to fold, not play with heart, not reach that loose ball first, not box out, go soft on the boards or on D--except for Kobe. Kobe's always going nuts out there, putting in his all. He may not always make the best shot decisions, but it's undeniable he's gutting it out out there every minute, and it just kills him to see Bynum or Gasol go soft underneath, or Odom miss a two feet shot put back after making a great play to get to the ball, or Vujacic and Farmar jack up stupid three point shot after three point shot when the Lakers need to take advantage of matchups on the inside.

It's even worse living in LA, too, because at times like these, I realize I almost can't stand Lakers fans any more than I can Celtics fans. At least the Rockets series shut them up a bit.

Looking back on last year, I think I realize that just about every guy on Boston is my "type" of player. Love the heart and work ethic shown by guys like KG and Pierce and Rondo. Big Baby used to be a Laker in training with the way he came into the league, and even he now is looking more like a Celtic, a blue collar, give it your all type of player. And the Lakers just get softer and softer, frankly aided by their go easy coach.

I don't think I have ever felt a bigger divide between how I feel supportive for Kobe the player, and just can't stand his teammates.

[Chief Rum]

BTW, Billups' Nuggets (as opposed to AI's Nuggets) are now much closer to a Celtic-Piston type team, and you have to hand it to Billups for instilling that in the squad with his leadership. Before this season, Martin, JR Smith, the Birdman and even Melo were much more like soft Lakers players than they were driven, blue collar types, but his example has really had an influence on them and made them what they are.

Maybe Billups shoulda been MVP.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Melo proved he belonged in the convo. As you said Troy, Nuggets played their perfect game nearly, but still couldnt pull it out.

Jerry West was dead on. Leron is gonna be special, but if you want someone with the ball when the game is on the line, it's Kobe.

They couldn't pull it out because of a couple of really dumb possessions. The game on the line thing is kind of funny to me. Everyone puts Wade, Kobe and Lebron in the conversation.

Here are some stats from 82games.com:

Final 5 minutes of the game, 5 point differential either way:

Points per 48 minutes:

Kobe 56.7
Bron 55.9
Melo 54.4
Wade 49.2

FG%:

Kobe 45.7%, 40% on threes
Bron 55.6%, 42.1% on threes
Melo 56.5%, 58.3% on threes
Wade 47%, 21% on threes

FTA Per 48:

Kobe 18.2
Bron 20.8
Melo 24.0
Wade 22.3

And when it comes to last second bombs, Carmelo is THE best in the NBA right now. He's hit close to 50% of his shots with the shot clock under 24 and his team tied or behind by one or two points over the last five seasons. (compared to Kobe's 29%)

Reality? When the game is on the line, you could have ANY of those four taking the shot and be in pretty good shape. The sad part about it is that three of those players get nationally hyped as dominating players and I can almost promise you a non Denver fan will be surprised looking at the stats I just posted above.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I can almost promise you a non Denver fan will be surprised looking at the stats I just posted above.

I hope you didn't put any money on that notion anywhere. I hardly follow the league at all but that didn't really surprise me at all.

[TroyF]

Props to you Jon. I'm on may NBA boards and can tell you the vast majority of fans believe that Lebron, Wade and Kobe are on another planet compared to Melo, even if we are just talking about finishing off close games.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Props to you Jon. I'm on may NBA boards and can tell you the vast majority of fans believe that Lebron, Wade and Kobe are on another planet compared to Melo, even if we are just talking about finishing off close games.

They must not be watching sportscenter, I'm almost certain that's where I had that general impression. Seems like every other night I see (or hear since it's just background noise for me usually) hitting something clutch at the end of a game.

[Young Drachma]

LeBron is at it. I just turned the game on randomly and well...the Cavs are proving they're on a mission.

[spleen1015]

Mo Williams!

[jeff061]

It's just not in the cards Orlando.

Sorry .

[Danny]

So anyone think Lebron has a chance to win more titles than MJ when it is all said and done? (yes I know it's early, but that's the point)

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Props to you Jon. I'm on may NBA boards and can tell you the vast majority of fans believe that Lebron, Wade and Kobe are on another planet compared to Melo, even if we are just talking about finishing off close games.

Down here on sports talk, it's always been said that Melo is clutch player, moreso then Lebron, so I'm not sure why it would be surprising to a non-nugget fan?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Danny

So anyone think Lebron has a chance to win more titles than MJ when it is all said and done? (yes I know it's early, but that's the point)

I think it'll be tough. Remember that Jordan had to re-invent his game as he aged (from a slasher to a mid-range shooter). It'll come down to how well Lebron ages too. Does he benefit from much better medical technology in this era or does his large frame put extra miles on his body as he ages?

But mostly it'll come down to desire. There's no doubt that he has the skills to win many titles. But after he wins a couple, does he have the desire to win more? Does he focus on building his mogul image more than training? We know that Jordan was so competitive that it bordered on a disorder. Up until this year Lebron has not showed that same drive.

I'll add that I think he can do it if he stays in Cleveland and just focuses on basketball and titles. If he goes to New York I wonder if the distractions will ultimately get the best of him at some point.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by jeff061

It's just not in the cards Orlando.

Sorry .

O ye of little faith.

[RainMaker]

I guess the fact that they won't call Lebron for a travel evens out with the fact that they won't call Howard for moving screens.

[Big Fo]

It's not supposed to be a foul if you jump straight up and keep the arms up I thought. Harsh call on Howard if so.

[Neon_Chaos]

Here we go...

25 seconds, 2-point CLE lead, ORL ball.

[Neon_Chaos]

LEWIS FOR THREEEEEE!!!!

[Young Drachma]

9-day layoff obviously had some effect, but I still think the Cavs will pull it out in the end.

[Jas_lov]

Yes sir! That was a terrible foul call on Howard.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

It's not supposed to be a foul if you jump straight up and keep the arms up I thought. Harsh call on Howard if so.

Howard didn't even really touch him either. Should have been a no-call.

[spleen1015]

Lebron needs to win this game.

[Neon_Chaos]

ORL force a jumpball, 1 second left!!!

[spleen1015]

WTF! You don't let Delonte freakin West shot the game winner when Lebron is on your team.

[Jas_lov]

He didn't even shoot. Now it's over.

[Neon_Chaos]

CLEVELAND FAIL! CLEVELAND FAIL! CLEVELAND FAIL!!!!

Epic Win for Orlando.

[Big Fo]

Wow almost a great shot from Williams off the tip.

Orlando takes game one, this is going to be a series.

[Neon_Chaos]

LeBron is cramping up in the middle of the court. I guess he isn't invincible afterall.

[Scoobz0202]

I'm so pissed. Lebron.. Take the fucking shot yourself.

[Young Drachma]

How the hell do you give Delonte West the last shot? A 3? Really Mike Brown? Wow.

[Scoobz0202]

Mike Brown is a cool dude, but he is not the Coach of the Year.

[kingfc22]

Awwwww....poor Cavs

[Big Fo]

Dwight Howard in the three games since Orlando's game five debacle:

9-16, 23 pts, 22 rebs, 3 blks
5-9, 12 pts, 16 rebs, 5 blks, +26
14-20, 30 pts, 13 rebs

Glad to see him put his money where his mouth is.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Mike Brown is a cool dude, but he is not the Coach of the Year.

Indeed.

I wouldn't let dude coach my Junior League Heat of 7-9 year olds from Camp Menominee in 1998. LeBron needs to stop making that organization look good, because they're not and go someplace where he can get paid and actually get talented surrounding him.

Speaking of, I'm convinced watching these series that the salary cap has pretty much killed the ability to build an interesting team in the NBA.

[Noop]

Hopefully Cleveland goes back to the drawing and play a lot better next game. I still think they can win this series so no worries.

[Groundhog]

Sucks to drop game 1, but it just makes game 2 a must-win and you need to take one away from Orlando on their homecourt. Not the end of the world.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

9-day layoff obviously had some effect, but I still think the Cavs will pull it out in the end.

Sure it's not the Cavs underestimating a shorthanded Orlando team?