WW CV: Transformers (D5, day ends Friday 9 PM EST)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

Agreed - also agree with Alan's viewpoint of the cunning and why I'm still here...

Well Eaglefan and I had a difference of opinion on your role anyways. My thought is if most of them are doing actions each night, your role is pretty worthless to scan them anyways since they wouldn't be in the right mode for you.

Especially if the two that is left are the Powerful and Stalker, one would do the nightly kill now and one would scan for roles correct? So what would they need to get rid of you for especially if there is still some doubt about your validity.

Obviously your value is in providing us some cleared people if you are indeed what you say are on the occasion that you do actually get a good scan (such as you say you did with DT), but I guess that has been of less concern to them then other targets.

[Autumn]

It would be good to know, since if there is no stalker i'm 100% confident in Lerriuqs.

Let's look at night kills. Day 1 was hoops, right? He had not revealed his role, but was on Lathum. The wolves would have no scans at that point.

Day 2 was Render? I don't remember what his role was, but I dont' think he had revealed.

day 3 was JAG. He was revealed, had used his power already and was in the CoT.

Just thinking outloud, but it's hard to say if they've figured anything out from potential scans. I guess I will go see what REnder was to see if that was a target becuase of a night 1 scan.

[Autumn]

Ah, okay, Render was the searcher for the All Spark. This was before we caught EF, so it could very well be that they targeted him to keep him away from the all spark. It could be nothing, but it does lend in my mind weight to the thought that there is a Stalker in game. Which is too bad.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Autumn

It would be good to know, since if there is no stalker i'm 100% confident in Lerriuqs.

Let's look at night kills. Day 1 was hoops, right? He had not revealed his role, but was on Lathum. The wolves would have no scans at that point.

Day 2 was Render? I don't remember what his role was, but I dont' think he had revealed.

day 3 was JAG. He was revealed, had used his power already and was in the CoT.

Just thinking outloud, but it's hard to say if they've figured anything out from potential scans. I guess I will go see what REnder was to see if that was a target becuase of a night 1 scan.

It was strongly discussed in thread that Render felt we wouldn't want to lose his role but he wasn't going to say what it was to Passacaglia prying for more information.

I guess the wolves went for him under the assumption it would be a juicy role that they could try to take out.

[Darth Vilus]

Alright, no real idea. Just going to

Vote Dubb

I honestly have no clue

[J23]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I only have a few minutes. Thanks for posting those J23, I really needed them.

I'm looking at some of the UTR folks.

DV puts lerriuqs ahead of EF day one, votes first on Dubb day 2 and that's it, and then votes for Danny to get him closer to EF on day three.

J23 ties Lerriuqs up with EF day one, puts Pass ahead of Dubb day two, votes fourth on EF day four.

Kwhit puts EF ahead day one, ties Dubb with Pass day two, votes dubb to add a viable 3rd candidate to EF and Danny day three.

I originally had Dubb in this group, though he's spoken a bit more with some pressure lately, and LSG has been involved late. And really that's all the time i have to look at.

Based on these three, nothing solid, but DV and J23 both have questionable votes or buried votes for the most part. KWhit has a pretty solid vote against EF day one, and then two votes against Dubb, which are hard to evaluate at this point. I would go DV or J23 out of this group then. J23 has a vote on EF, but it came late enough day three that it could have been the sort of trust buying move Alan's talking about. DV has two votes that could have been attempts to get EF out of trouble. For now then I'm going to go with him.

I just don't know how much more I'll be able to do today, but I will check in regularly to see if this vote makes sense.

VOTE DARTH VILIUS

I'll respond by pointing out your voting history to compare to my own.

Day 1 - Voted Schmidty(unknown), swapped to Jackal (good) following Lerriuqs (unknown) and Lathum's (bad) lead. Did not swap off Jackal after the reveal of his role by GE.

Day 2 - Gave Pass (good) 2nd vote over Dubb(unknown)

Day 3 - Placed 2nd vote on EF (bad) over Lerriuqs (unknown)

Day 1, my vote was on Lerriuqs and stayed there, but wasn't around for the crazyiness to know if I'd have moved it honestly. Day 2 I voted Pass and left it there after he said that his role wasn't crucial, while Dubb said we didn't want to lose his. Day 3 I voted EF after going back and finding noone else mentioned the slut from night 1 (as I rehashed w/ Alan last night).

[PurdueBrad]

Vote count as of 955

Danny- Schmidty (883)
Darth Vilus- Autumn (929), KWhit (930)
Dubb- Darth Vilus (955)

[J23]

Originally Posted by Alan T

What leap of faith made you believe there is no Stalker role in the game? My thinking was the opposite that they have purposely been hitting people that they -know- are not a seer in order to allow the seer to scan the Stalker role.

If I were a wolf, I would try to scan 1 unknown and nightkill a different unknown to minimize the time it took me to find the seer.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Alan T

It was strongly discussed in thread that Render felt we wouldn't want to lose his role but he wasn't going to say what it was to Passacaglia prying for more information.

I guess the wolves went for him under the assumption it would be a juicy role that they could try to take out.

Another thing I don't remember. Well, that leaves it kind of murky I guess.

Not sure where I'll go exactly. I don't want to give too much weight to Dubb's claim of a role. I think Danny and he already have votes, KWhit voted Darth. Anyone have a vote count to make sure I know what I'm voting on?

[Autumn]

All right, well at this point I'd rather have Danny/Dubb than what we have. As I think I've made clear he's about the same level as J23 and Danny for me. I haven't really had time to look at anyone other than the ones I've gone through this morning.

UNVOTE DARTH VILIUS
VOTE DUBB93

[PurdueBrad]

Vote count as of 960

Danny- Schmidty (883)
Darth Vilus- KWhit (930)
Dubb- Darth Vilus (955), Autumn (960)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Autumn

All right, well at this point I'd rather have Danny/Dubb than what we have. As I think I've made clear he's about the same level as J23 and Danny for me. I haven't really had time to look at anyone other than the ones I've gone through this morning.

UNVOTE DARTH VILIUS
VOTE DUBB93

I was curious which way you would go based on my early thoughts after reading through yesterday in how it seemed you and Danny had the same message you were presenting all day (if not the same agenda).

I'm still pretty sure that both Danny AND Dubb aren't wolves, I just hadn't decided which one I think was more likely to be the wolf.

[Autumn]

I was under the impression that you were voting for Danny already, which is why I went Dubb here. I didn't want to make it 3-1 here. Plus, I feel comfortable following Darth.

I can see you're seeing some kind of link here between me and Danny. I don't know what it's based on. But again I'll repeat that I was on EF yesterday all day because I had evidence against him. Today I don't have anything to go by so I'm parsing as you've seen in thread. I don't know what Danny''s thinking was yesterday, but I'm quite sure it wasn't based on what mine was.

[J23]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I was under the impression that you were voting for Danny already, which is why I went Dubb here. I didn't want to make it 3-1 here. Plus, I feel comfortable following Darth.

How did you go from voting for Darth to moving off of him onto Dubb and being comfortable following him?

[Autumn]

The posts that others pointed out this morning made me feel about as solid as I do about Lerriuqs, which is not 100% but suggest some inside knowledge that I know not everyone would have. The fact that Lerriuqs helped point that out to me makes me feel better about each of them.

[Danny]

For reasons I will not really mention I am kind of off the Lerriuqs bandwagon. Right now my choices look limited without introducing a new candidate, so I will go with Dubb.

Vote Dubb

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I was under the impression that you were voting for Danny already, which is why I went Dubb here. I didn't want to make it 3-1 here. Plus, I feel comfortable following Darth.

Why did you feel this way? I actually came into this morning planning on voting J23 and have since changed my mind. I was deciding between Danny and Dubb actually. At least I don't think I had been giving that impression since I had not decided myself. I'm not sure that I like you claiming what my vote is going to be for me.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I had Darth Vilus in my undecideds.. but actually what you posted there kwhit makes me decide that I don't want to lynch him today. Just another one of my gut feelings that I'm sometimes right sometimes wrong on is all.

I see what you're saying. I'm going to change my vote.

But I'm not sure on Danny vs Dubb. They both have been creeping me out, to be honest. So to keep it close, I will:

UNVOTE DARTH VILUS
VOTE DANNY

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Why did you feel this way? I actually came into this morning planning on voting J23 and have since changed my mind. I was deciding between Danny and Dubb actually. At least I don't think I had been giving that impression since I had not decided myself. I'm not sure that I like you claiming what my vote is going to be for me.

I thought you had said so last night, but maybe I had you confused. I can try to find it.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think my vote barring further information from someone else is going to either be J23 or will be on Danny (simply because the ties between him and Autumn and then him and Dubb in the day's discussions gives too many questions about him that might need to be answered).

I'm not decided at all on this one though, so going to think about it tonight and vote in the morning. (I wont be around at the deadline tomorrow night)

Snipped to show what i was remembering.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Snipped to show what i was remembering.

Not really the same thing as saying I'm voting Danny though. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, just felt you were putting words into my mouth

[Autumn]

I just had the impression you were. You were talking about voting J23 or Danny and then you've been saying today you feel better about J23. So I guess I assumed.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I just had the impression you were. You were talking about voting J23 or Danny and then you've been saying today you feel better about J23. So I guess I assumed.

You know what they say about assuming! It makes a out of you and me!



(ok, its a horse and not a donkey, but it looks like a donkey with a saddle on it!)

[J23]

Just a heads up, I'm leaving shortly and don't think I'll be around much until maybe an hour before deadline (if that).

[Alan T]

I'm leaving at 4:30-5ish EST myself and will be gone till after deadline too. So I have to decide by then as well.

[dubb93]

The wolves want me out of the game. I am being railroaded here.

[J23]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well Eaglefan and I had a difference of opinion on your role anyways. My thought is if most of them are doing actions each night, your role is pretty worthless to scan them anyways since they wouldn't be in the right mode for you.

Especially if the two that is left are the Powerful and Stalker, one would do the nightly kill now and one would scan for roles correct? So what would they need to get rid of you for especially if there is still some doubt about your validity.

Obviously your value is in providing us some cleared people if you are indeed what you say are on the occasion that you do actually get a good scan (such as you say you did with DT), but I guess that has been of less concern to them then other targets.

Just thought I'd bring this up, but don't forget that the Fallen is out there as well, and might very well be able to do the nightkill as well.

Also, Alan, did you have any thoughts about my reasoning about the (non)existence of the Stalker role?

[dubb93]

Vote Autumn

You have had a hard on for me for days now and you are piling on me while claiming you want a two horse race. This entire game you have said one thing and done another.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Alan T

You know what they say about assuming! It makes a out of you and me!



(ok, its a horse and not a donkey, but it looks like a donkey with a saddle on it!)

Clearly ;-) I apologize. I'm not up to my normal self this game, fighting off a cold, the rest of the family sick and a lot of very eager clients. I think normally I have a better recollection of what's going on (or at least better notes).

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by dubb93

The wolves want me out of the game. I am being railroaded here.

Well... I'm not a wolf and you were high up on my list of people i was considering. I personally don't think everyone who has voted for you thus far is a wolf either.. so this kind of response doesn't really help me much or any at all to be honest

As I said above, I'm leaving in about an hour, and you are one of three I'm considering based on the various stuff from before.

Can you tell me what you feel about Danny? How about Autumn?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Can you tell me what you feel about Danny? How about Autumn?

I think they are both wolves.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Vote Autumn

You have had a hard on for me for days now and you are piling on me while claiming you want a two horse race. This entire game you have said one thing and done another.

Your definition of hard on must be different than mine. I think this is the first time I've voted you. I've listed you as someone I wondered about day two for reasons I've explained elsewhere. I voted Pass instead of you day 2. Basically I don't see what you're talking about.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by J23

Just thought I'd bring this up, but don't forget that the Fallen is out there as well, and might very well be able to do the nightkill as well.

Also, Alan, did you have any thoughts about my reasoning about the (non)existence of the Stalker role?

I was told point blank in my PM that the fallen had joined the decepticons when my role was pretty much invalidated on night 1. So I highly doubt he has a seperate kill/win condition/anything at this point.

For your reasoning about the Stalker role, I might have missed it if you posted additional stuff, but I did reply to some of your stuff earlier at least and why I felt your belief wasn't that well grounded.

[J23]

Post 958, near the top of the page. Basically that I think if they have a stalker, they'd kill off one unknown and scan another until they got the important roles they were going for. (most notably Scanner2.0)

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Your definition of hard on must be different than mine. I think this is the first time I've voted you. I've listed you as someone I wondered about day two for reasons I've explained elsewhere. I voted Pass instead of you day 2. Basically I don't see what you're talking about.

You voted Pass and said you wanted a run off between Pass and myself. Why follow me on Pass when he was the candidate I presented and then suggest you want others to vote for me? I didn't follow that logic at the time and I still don't follow that logic.

[J23]

I'm not guessing that the Fallen has different win conditions, I am saying that there would be an inactive wolf at night that would be vulnerable to a scan, even if they have a Stalker.

[lerriuqs]

I don't know where I'm going with my vote, but I don't like the dubb votes for reasons I've already stated. Dubb has stated he lost a piece of the All Spark and there has been no contest to this (anyone else losing a piece) and EF came up with a piece and RendeR didn't have a piece.

Thus we know one of two things:
1. Dubb was lying and the piece was stolen from someone else - yet why wouldn't said person speak up about it?
2. Dubb is telling the truth and is an autobot. This is based on the assumption that only autobots would have the pieces of All-Spark since the Decepticons can talk to each other - making both the searching roles much less useful - looking at it from a GM view.

I think it's more likely Option 2. If the only two serious options are Dubb and Danny, I'll be voting Danny today. But I'm going to wait and see what happens over the next while.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by dubb93

You voted Pass and said you wanted a run off between Pass and myself. Why follow me on Pass when he was the candidate I presented and then suggest you want others to vote for me? I didn't follow that logic at the time and I still don't follow that logic.

I wasn't following you. You were both people I believe I had listed earlier in my "gut list" of people I suspected. So since one was in the running I added another, I believe. I wasn't suggesting you were both wolves. And I'm not sure why you're fixating on me. I'm not the only one talking about voting you.

What evidence do you have not to vote you? Your voting record so far is non-descript, it could certainly be a village record or a wolf record. Your only defense has been that you say you have a role we don't want to get rid of. I can say at least that I helped start a run on a wolf, and that my role helped to to target a wolf.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by J23

Post 958, near the top of the page. Basically that I think if they have a stalker, they'd kill off one unknown and scan another until they got the important roles they were going for. (most notably Scanner2.0)

I don't know if that is necessarily a sure thing. With Jag's kill they obviously killed someone who was trusted. I know often times later in the game it is risky to kill an unknown player as a wolf because you still need unverifiable people that you can shift the blame on to. Even if you get the seer, if you end up with you vs 4 people, all of whom are 100% trusted, things won't go well for you.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by dubb93

You voted Pass and said you wanted a run off between Pass and myself. Why follow me on Pass when he was the candidate I presented and then suggest you want others to vote for me? I didn't follow that logic at the time and I still don't follow that logic.

That is kind of the same thing Autumn did yesterday too that had me looking more at that direction last night. I guess I didn't notice it the day before as much.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

I don't know where I'm going with my vote, but I don't like the dubb votes for reasons I've already stated. Dubb has stated he lost a piece of the All Spark and there has been no contest to this (anyone else losing a piece) and EF came up with a piece and RendeR didn't have a piece.

Thus we know one of two things:
1. Dubb was lying and the piece was stolen from someone else - yet why wouldn't said person speak up about it?
2. Dubb is telling the truth and is an autobot. This is based on the assumption that only autobots would have the pieces of All-Spark since the Decepticons can talk to each other - making both the searching roles much less useful - looking at it from a GM view.

I think it's more likely Option 2. If the only two serious options are Dubb and Danny, I'll be voting Danny today. But I'm going to wait and see what happens over the next while.

That is pretty good evidence. This is why I hate this game (in general). Now that youve reminded me of it I'd be inclined to vote elsewhere but know it will be a reason for people to second guess me. I'll probably switch to Danny though, I don't see a flaw in your reasoning above.

[J23]

For what it's worth, I'm more likely to vote Autumn over Dubb and Danny atm. I'm going back person by person to look at voting records atm though before I cast my vote.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

(anyone else losing a piece) and EF came up with a piece and RendeR didn't have a piece.

Can you show me where Eaglefan had a piece of it? I think I missed that part.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Alan T

That is kind of the same thing Autumn did yesterday too that had me looking more at that direction last night. I guess I didn't notice it the day before as much.

Because i had no idea who the wolves were, and so I'd rather have a race between two people I consider suspects? I mean maybe I'm playing this wrong but that seems the best to me. Why urge people to vote for someone I don't think is a wolf? Why urge to have a one person runoff?

[lerriuqs]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Eaglefan is sacrificed to the ocean, left floating where he once stood is a Decepticon logo as Barricade, the Collector sinks to the bottom of the ocean with a piece of the All-Spark.

The All-Spark is now null and void

Right here Alan

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Because i had no idea who the wolves were, and so I'd rather have a race between two people I consider suspects? I mean maybe I'm playing this wrong but that seems the best to me. Why urge people to vote for someone I don't think is a wolf? Why urge to have a one person runoff?

Well, maybe I am wrong here, but my personal opinion is when someone has a vote locked in on one person but they keep talking up a different candidate to vote for instead, it is an effort to try to mislead. I would have to go back and look at what Dubb is referring to from the earlier day since I don't want to just take it for face value, but I definitely went through every post from yesterday and I saw constantly all day both you and Danny were "sure" Eaglefan was bad, but also constantly talking up Lerriuqs as a good lynch choice even despite other people (myself included) giving reasons that we did not necessarily agree.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here though, but I just feel usually a villager is more likely to try to give reasons for their vote to try to help keep suspicion off of them rather than the doubletalk approach is all. So I almost always view that negatively I guess.

[dubb93]

Eaglefan is sacrificed to the ocean, left floating where he once stood is a Decepticon logo as Barricade, the Collector sinks to the bottom of the ocean with a piece of the All-Spark.

The All-Spark is now null and void

Here.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

Right here Alan

Ahh... ok.. I can see what you mean about Dubb then.. hmmm

[Autumn]

All right, I'm spending too much time in thread when I need to be working, and I'm obviously only distracting by talking too much. I really need to learn to just check in at night time, I spend so much time talking in thread I always end up getting suspicion no matter what I do.

To make it clear, I have a role that allows me to gather information. Through that role I was able to target EagleFan, and voted him early and strong all day. I think if you look at my posts from night one through day two you'll see me trying to hint at that.

This is also why I boosted my trust of Lerriuqs today. I think his quoting of the wording in his night results match what I received well enough that he could not have guessed at it.

I have to get back to work so I'm just going to offer that and go ahead and change my vote due to the point about dubb and the All spark.

unvote dubb93
vote danny

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well, maybe I am wrong here, but my personal opinion is when someone has a vote locked in on one person but they keep talking up a different candidate to vote for instead, it is an effort to try to mislead. I would have to go back and look at what Dubb is referring to from the earlier day since I don't want to just take it for face value, but I definitely went through every post from yesterday and I saw constantly all day both you and Danny were "sure" Eaglefan was bad, but also constantly talking up Lerriuqs as a good lynch choice even despite other people (myself included) giving reasons that we did not necessarily agree.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here though, but I just feel usually a villager is more likely to try to give reasons for their vote to try to help keep suspicion off of them rather than the doubletalk approach is all. So I almost always view that negatively I guess.

I was the first player to vote Pass and I gave my reasons for voting him. My vote for Pass was in post 438.

In post 496 Autumn votes Pass(the candidate I introduced) and implys he wants a runoff between Pass and myself. Atleast that is how I read it.