Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[RainMaker]

Well The Rock can still cut a promo.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Well The Rock can still cut a promo.

I dunno, I thought it was a little flat. But maybe I'm grading on a curve.

My exact take was "we now live in a world where Heyman will be a better promo than Rock 10 times out of 10"

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I dunno, I thought it was a little flat. But maybe I'm grading on a curve.

My exact take was "we now live in a world where Heyman will be a better promo than Rock 10 times out of 10"

[Toddzilla]

I got texts from a few of my limey friends to tell me that the RevPro Osprey/Oku match was the greatest match they've ever seen and probably one of the best matches ever. I'm headed to the RevPro site to see if it's streamable now.

[RainMaker]

Nia Jax might be the new worst wrestler I've ever seen. How did she get a chance to main event a PPV?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Nia Jax might be the new worst wrestler I've ever seen. How did she get a chance to main event a PPV?

Definitely not the new worst.

[dubb93]

She has a long history of injuring her opponents.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How did she get a chance to main event a PPV?

Her being the second cousin (once removed) of The Rock might answer that question.

[RainMaker]

I mean I'm sure there are worse but maybe not in a PPV main event that large. There are good wrestlers like Asuka they could feed to Rhea.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I mean I'm sure there are worse but maybe not in a PPV main event that large. There are good wrestlers like Asuka they could feed to Rhea.

I know we are talking about Nia here so the comparison is moot, but it isn’t like Asuka hasn’t had her chances. She has been champion, even as recently as Summerslam 2003 where she was the defending champion. The reality is Asuka is a hard fit for WWE due to her limited promo ability which caps her upside. I think despite that she’s had a great career in WWE. Wikipedia has her as a 4 time Women’s Champion in WWE and that isn’t even counting NXT. She alap currently is one half of the tag champs.

Again, I’m not comparing her to Nia. This is just a general commentary on Asuka in WWE.

[Toddzilla]

WWE = very entertaining, wrestling not so much
AEW = very good wrestling, entertaining not so much

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I know we are talking about Nia here so the comparison is moot, but it isn’t like Asuka hasn’t had her chances. She has been champion, even as recently as Summerslam 2003 where she was the defending champion. The reality is Asuka is a hard fit for WWE due to her limited promo ability which caps her upside. I think despite that she’s had a great career in WWE. Wikipedia has her as a 4 time Women’s Champion in WWE and that isn’t even counting NXT. She alap currently is one half of the tag champs.

Again, I’m not comparing her to Nia. This is just a general commentary on Asuka in WWE.

I didn't mean it to promote Asuka or anything. Rhea was never losing the title before Mania and I think this was just a match to showcase her in front of a stadium crowd in her home country. I just meant it would be nice if they had someone on the roster who could make Rhea look like a million bucks and take the loss. A role that guys like Ziggler were great at.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Her being the second cousin (once removed) of The Rock might answer that question.

So less tenuous than any actual relation to any other wrestling Samoan's but still not actual blood relation?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

So less tenuous than any actual relation to any other wrestling Samoan's but still not actual blood relation?

Well, she's blood related, it's just distant.

Her dad was a cousin of Rock's grandfather (Peter Maivia)

edit to correct myself: Okay, NOT blood technically. I'd forgotten that his link to Peter Maivia is by adoption (Peter adopted Rock's mother)

[miami_fan]

Tough couple of days for the ol' wresting childhood.

Ole Anderson, Wrestling Legend and Member of the Four Horsemen, Dead at 81

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/...-61-rcna140940

[RainMaker]

I know Virgil ended up being the butt of jokes later on but his feud with DiBiase is one of the most iconic in WWE history. He was as over as anyone for that period of time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Dear Lord.

My child was so bored that he plunked down for the AEW PPV tonight.

As tragic as it is to see what Jay White has been reduced to, that pales in comparison to the notion that Giant Gonzales 2.0 is getting paid to be perhaps THE least talented wrestler on television outside the WWE.

[RainMaker]

Are you talking about the Big Show or another giant guy who can't wrestle?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Are you talking about the Big Show or another giant guy who can't wrestle?

Satnam (?) Singh

The big stiff that's part of the Jarrett comedy stable

[RainMaker]

Oh God I don't think I've ever seen him wrestle. Just stand around and occasionally chop someone.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Oh God I don't think I've ever seen him wrestle. Just stand around and occasionally chop someone.

Count your blessings, it's worse than I imagined.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Depressing turn of events.

I notice that Roderick Strong is starting to get some gray hair.

Roderick Strong was 11 months old when I graduated from high school.

I feel a sudden urge to switch to The Weather Channel and maybe have some prune juice.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You really wanna know just HOW broken things are in AEW?

Toni Storm is a face.

edit to add: Taz "You know I've never been kicked in the lady yam bags"

And that commentary is better than the Storm - Purrazo match. How in the blue fuck do we get to the point where you can have these two work a match that looks like ROH's lamentable attempt at a women's division?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Seeing Will Ospreay reduced to working for AEW is just f'n depressing.

Best in the friggin world at what he does ... in a match that means nothing, same as 95% (or more) of AEW matches.

Ospreay vs Takeshita should be a highlight, the best versus a rising star with a very high ceiling ... even with an eventual predictable turn of events (pun intended) there won't be any real meaning because the overall booking is so friggin bad.

It's just a damned tragedy.

edit to add: Helluva match, which makes it more depressing.

[RainMaker]

It was a great match. Ospreay is so damn good.

[RainMaker]

Darby Allin has a death wish. Good lord.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Gonna be in the conversation for best retirement match ever for quite a while.

Everybody did their job and with the right setting and setup, that might just be enough.

Do I wish the PPV had been an hour shorter? Yeah.

But I don't come away disappointed with the main event.

[RainMaker]

AEW has its problems but their PPV shows are usually pretty damn good. That was a flawless main event.

[dubb93]

WWE acknowledged Sting’s retirement which I didn’t expect as well as his match “last night.”

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

WWE acknowledged Sting’s retirement which I didn’t expect as well as his match “last night.”

Yep, good on them for that.

And on a related note, some sources today seem to be saying that the reason no WWE talent attended last night is because AEW never asked. (we only heard from Nash, afaik, that WWE refused to allow it)

[JonInMiddleGA]

There probably aren't that many things in wrestling right now that'd be more satisfying than watching Gunther chop Dirty Dom.

THAT'S entertainment

[RainMaker]

So AEW brought Jay White in who holds the secondary 6-man tag belts. Now they have Okada who they are going to have feud for Eddie Kingston's new midcard title? Not an expert on booking but feels like those two should be a bit higher up on the card.

[RainMaker]

There's also an ROH TV Champion even though they don't have a TV show and I guess Ospreay fought the champion in the main event last night? Bryan Danielson came out after which should be an incredible future match.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So AEW brought Jay White in who holds the secondary 6-man tag belts. Now they have Okada who they are going to have feud for Eddie Kingston's new midcard title? Not an expert on booking but feels like those two should be a bit higher up on the card.

Instead of chanting AEW, fans who know should probably chant TEW .. .because that's basically what it is: a money mark with virtually unlimited roster pretending to book a promotion

[JonInMiddleGA]

Funny thing about the Okada debut, aside from tying him to the Bucks, it's something I tossed out as a casual prediction here in the batcave about a week ago.

Specifically that he would come in as a heel, something he would have struggled to do in Japan.

It's actually a pretty natural fit, he's always felt to me like his default setting was Heel.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, heel Okada is very interesting. He kind of has a natural look for it. And it makes sense to pair him with people who can talk because I'm not sure how good his English is (or if he can pull off a heel character in it).

I don't really understand the Don Callis group in AEW. He just manages a group of wrestlers? Some are heels and some are faces? Extra weird because I don't think someone like Ospreay needs a manager who can talk. Feels like he should be the leader of any faction.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okada's English might as well be non-existent. Or at least we've never seen more than a halting few words from him ever (and those were delivered phonetically)

Thing is, I don't think the Bucks make good mouthpieces. They're good at skits, at promos maybe not so much.

Callis group are all heels, aside from the Ospreay association and they're setting up a group turn on him rather obviously (as well as some subtlety) in order to cement him as a pure face.

It's hard to tell in AEW sometimes, as faces get booed & heels can get cheered, but yeah his group are all heels (after the attack on Omega, which secured him firmly as a face)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, if the IWC stuff is correct, I may crap on Okada's decision from a creative standpoint but as a business move ...

Rumor today is that his deal is worth $4.5m / year for 3 years.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, if the IWC stuff is correct, I may crap on Okada's decision from a creative standpoint but as a business move ...

Rumor today is that his deal is worth $4.5m / year for 3 years.

That’s some WCW level stuff right there.

Tony will wind up with massive contracts on guys like Okada and won’t be able to re-up MJF and Osprey when their next contracts are due.

This isn’t a dig at Okada. He’s great at what he does and was a made man in Japan but the man doesn’t speak any English. I know AEW clearly doesn’t care about mainstream appeal but a guy like Okada isn’t going to have the upside in the US that a guy like those other two do.

It’s kind of like Fedor in MMA. He was great at what he did but we never got to see him in UFC in part because the smaller promotions were all willing to overpay for him based on what he did in Japan.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I know AEW clearly doesn’t care about mainstream appeal but a guy like Okada isn’t going to have the upside in the US that a guy like those other two do.

Maybe not much appeal to the non-mainstream either.

Ratings fell last week for the expected Ospreay debut, ratings fell again this week for the somewhat anticipated Okada debut.

Both had limited appeal in the U.S., and when you reduce that by whatever portion of people (like me) have little to no interest in seeing them work random midcard matches, what's the point other than gottacatchemall?

[dubb93]

AEW really needs a title and roster prune. When we regularly watched it it was almost impossible for my kids to follow as guys wouldn’t appear for weeks at a time. I’d also have to constantly explain all the titles too. The product is so confusing for a new viewer or especially one that doesn’t know anything about where some of these guys came from(luckily I’m pretty familiar with New Japan).

There really is a built in expectation from Tony that you have been following wrestling on a global scale for atleast the last 5-10 years. Add to that the third show and $50 PPVs becoming more frequent and it all just became too much to follow.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

AEW really needs a title and roster prune. When we regularly watched it it was almost impossible for my kids to follow as guys wouldn’t appear for weeks at a time. I’d also have to constantly explain all the titles too. The product is so confusing for a new viewer or especially one that doesn’t know anything about where some of these guys came from(luckily I’m pretty familiar with New Japan).

There really is a built in expectation from Tony that you have been following wrestling on a global scale for atleast the last 5-10 years. Add to that the third show and $50 PPVs becoming more frequent and it all just became too much to follow.

The kids definitely shouldn't feel bad, the titles are confusing to people who actually follow the show(s) lol.

And next year I guess it's 10 scheduled $50 PPVs

And that global follower expectation is really where TK misses the boat. It's like that thing I say about politics "you can wish things were a certain way ... but you better not lose sight of actual reality".

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okada's English might as well be non-existent. Or at least we've never seen more than a halting few words from him ever (and those were delivered phonetically)

Thing is, I don't think the Bucks make good mouthpieces. They're good at skits, at promos maybe not so much.

Callis group are all heels, aside from the Ospreay association and they're setting up a group turn on him rather obviously (as well as some subtlety) in order to cement him as a pure face.

It's hard to tell in AEW sometimes, as faces get booed & heels can get cheered, but yeah his group are all heels (after the attack on Omega, which secured him firmly as a face)

That makes sense if they turn on Ospreay. He sure seemed to work as a face the other night.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That makes sense if they turn on Ospreay. He sure seemed to work as a face the other night.

He arrived with major face momentum, so the "everybody watches everything" logic would suggest he had to come in working face.

Okada is maybe treated differently since his departure felt like more of a "clean break" rather than the highly emotional "we love you right now in this moment" & "I promise I will be back" farewell of Ospreay.

[dubb93]

So what have they done with Jay White? I remember watching him become the switchblade in NJPW and thinking he had a solid future in the US at the top of the card. I really haven’t followed AEW very closely since he debuted though. He seems like a guy that would need the time to do quite a bit of character work though and AEW that can be hard to come by with the roster size.

[RainMaker]

They have him working on the B or C show and he's part of the secondary trios title scene.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dubb93

AEW really needs a title and roster prune. When we regularly watched it it was almost impossible for my kids to follow as guys wouldn’t appear for weeks at a time. I’d also have to constantly explain all the titles too. The product is so confusing for a new viewer or especially one that doesn’t know anything about where some of these guys came from(luckily I’m pretty familiar with New Japan).

There really is a built in expectation from Tony that you have been following wrestling on a global scale for atleast the last 5-10 years. Add to that the third show and $50 PPVs becoming more frequent and it all just became too much to follow.

Here are the men's titles in the company.

AEW World
AEW TNT
AEW International
AEW Continental
FTW
AEW Tag
AEW Trios
ROH World
ROH TV
ROH Tag
ROH Trios
ROH Pure

Kingston carries around the NJPW Strong Openwieght title. The company has featured title matches for the Impact World and Tag Titles. Multiple wrestlers in the company have held those while on AEW TV (Omega, Christian, Anderson/Gallows, FTR). You have had the AAA tag titles defended on the show (FTR). Plus RevPro, Progress, and a slew of other titles have appeared for various wrestlers. I think the NJPW Tag and US titles have been defended on the shows too.

I think it's kind of cool when they have a newer wrestler or an enhancement talent that carries some smaller promotion's belt to the ring. Gives them a little credibility for what is just a match to show off another talent. But I don't think you should have 15-20 different titles appearing in your promotion at one time. And that's just the men!

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That makes sense if they turn on Ospreay. He sure seemed to work as a face the other night.

He was a heel in the faction as a visitor, so they're using this as a springboard to his full-time career in AEW. He really needs to be THE MAN in the company and win the title at Wembley.

It could have been a short career based on that near-botch of the brainbuster onto the top turnbuckle, that move was insane and too risky for my taste.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They have him working on the B or C show and he's part of the secondary trios title scene.

I definitely think we'll see more from Jay White at some point. They're not putting a lot of losses on him, but he is definitely under-used right now. The faction is not doing any of them any favors. Even the Gunns were looking better and better as a tag team before they were forced to carry Jay White cardboard cutouts everywhere.

[Toddzilla]

Nice moment for Mercedes Mone last night, it's cool to see hometown heroes get a welcome like that.