COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Edward64

That's right. So the math (I think) is

1.2M vaccinated x .003% Deaths x 75%. So a miniscule number relatively speaking.

Risk Factors for Severe COVID-19 Outcomes Among Persons Aged ≥18 Years Who Completed a Primary COVID-19 Vaccination Series — 465 Health Care Facilities, United States, December 2020–October 2021 | MMWR

Here's the study in question. It's pretty clear it's only a study of vaccinated people and obviously before Omicron made up almost 100% of new cases, as is the case today in the US. Eight out of 1.2 million who didn't have four or more co-morbidities and were vaccinated died. Of the 1.2 million, 189 became seriously ill, and none of those 189 didn't share at least one co-morbidity.

This is the list of co-morbidities: Age 65 or older, overweight or obese, diabetes mellitus, immunosuppression (includes HIV, cancer, organ transplant drugs, immunosuppressive therapy, immunodeficiency), chronic kidney disease, chronic neurologic disease (includes Dementia), chronic cardiac disease, chronic pulmonary disease (includes Asthma) and chronic liver disease.

"Adjusted odds ratios (aOR) of severe COVID-19 outcomes after primary vaccination were higher among persons aged ≥65 years (aOR = 3.22; 95% CI = 1.81–5.74), and those with immunosuppression (aOR = 1.91; 95% CI = 1.37–2.66), pulmonary disease (aOR = 1.69; 95% CI = 1.31–2.18), liver disease (aOR = 1.68; 95% CI = 1.12–2.52), chronic kidney disease (aOR = 1.61; 95% CI = 1.19–2.19), neurologic disease (aOR = 1.54; 95% CI = 1.06–2.25), diabetes (aOR = 1.47; 95% CI = 1.14–1.89), or cardiac disease (aOR = 1.44; 95% CI = 1.01–2.06) (Figure 1). Compared with persons who received the Janssen vaccine, Pfizer-BioNTech recipients had similar odds of severe outcomes (aOR = 0.70; 95% CI = 0.39–1.26), whereas recipients of the Moderna vaccine had lower odds (aOR = 0.56; 95% CI = 0.32–0.98). Odds of severe outcomes did not differ significantly by sex, race/ethnicity, time since primary vaccination, or whether infection occurred during the period of Delta variant predominance. Previous COVID-19 illness was associated with reduced odds of severe outcomes (aOR = 0.27; 95% CI = 0.09–0.84)."

We do not seem to have a similar large-scale study that would answer the question Rodgers and others have wrongly attributed to the entire population (including unvaccinated).

However.... only 2,246 of the 1.23 million vaccinated people got COVID. So now we're looking at 8.4% of those who got COVID and were vaccinated getting seriously ill (again, all with at least one co-morbidity, though that could mean the only risk was that they were over 65).

What we see with Omicron is a huge number of infections in those who are vaccinated.

A similar-scale study in our new Omicron world seems important - I'm sure it's being completed at this point. But I don't like the assertions from the government when we're kinda talking apples and oranges here. It's a legitimate topic to discuss and the goal should be to convince people it's in their own best interest to get vaccinated.

[Solecismic]

BNT162b2 (Pfizer–Biontech) mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine Against Omicron-Related Hospital and Emergency Department Admission in a Large US Health System: A Test-Negative Design by Sara Y. Tartof, Jeff M. Slezak, Laura Puzniak, Vennis Hong, Fagen Xie, Bradley K. Ackerson, Srinivas R. Valluri, Luis Jodar, John M. McLaughlin :: SSRN

Here's a Pfizer study showing that the vaccine provides only partial protection against Omicron. The flow-chart (click on the link) indicates about half of the emergency department visits related to Omicron are in vaccinated people.

(they caution that this study has not yet seen peer review)

So, Pfizer is working on a vaccine candidate specifically tailored to Omicron.

Pfizer and BioNTech Initiate Study to Evaluate Omicron-Based COVID-19 Vaccine in Adults 18 to 55 Years of Age | Pfizer

Like flu shots, it's possible (and I have no idea - apples and oranges again) that there might be new, tailored boosters every year or even less. That's going to be a very hard sell to people. Right now, about 52% of the adult population gets annual flu shots. I don't. Perhaps I should. I should definitely read more.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Maybe if there wasn't such a political spin on everything, one could engage on these issues. You talk about Belief like it's some sort of religious truth. Studies are often messy. Even messier when a government appointee is presenting them. Faith and science don't play well together. Scientists have to be skeptics when they're analyzing a hypothesis because what they're trying to do is present a confidence that two concepts are not part of the same data set.

Rodgers has made the point that spirited debate and science are constants. He's absolutely right about that. We're only two years into COVID - medical researchers are still learning, and what they've learned so far is because their research proposals for human subjects have been fast-tracked.

We miss the opportunity to find out what his objections are when we vilify him, call him a heretic, make fun of his girlfriend's past, reduce his arguments to simple extreme statements and then attack those like he's an idiot. When we talk about "horse paste" and accuse him of being a Klan member.

Why would he engage with someone like that, then? Why would anyone engage in a real debate with someone who does that? And thus a chance to address what we're fairly certain isn't true (his Ivermectin conspiracy remarks) by pointing, calmly, to the studies that have already been written.

Perhaps, even, there are things you Believe that haven't been shown at all. If you've been relying on government appointees and the media rather than looking at studies, it's possible you've come to some conclusions that are just as dangerous as anyone else's. I don't know. You don't present yourself as someone who could have a calm, rational conversation about all of this. You sound just as entrenched as the extreme controversy Believers on the other side.

It's hard to talk about this stuff once it gets so political and so religious. Good advice on COVID has changed rapidly, and will continue to change. We're all in this together. I think the media has done far more harm than good with its continual hot takes and Beliefs. Their clicks come from division and hate, and that's exactly what we don't need right now.

We've had a large number of people who are also willfully engaging in bad faith arguments to just try and muddle the actual discussion you're talking about. We've seen this as a very popular topic with everything from smoking to climate change to COVID. Some do it for personal enrichment, some do it because they like the attention, some do it for personal reasons ranging from ignorance to narcissism, and some just like to watch the world burn.

I strongly disagree with what seems to be your sentiment that engaging in that sort of rhetoric is some harmless sophist exercise. It has literally - not "literally" like coachspeak misspeak "literally" - but literally - in the dictionary definition - cost millions of lives over the last century.

That can't be brushed aside when we're talking about this. How do you propose to provide scrutiny because that's part of providing a large platform to someone like Rodgers (or Joe Rogan or whoever)?

SI

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Here's a Pfizer study showing that the vaccine provides only partial protection against Omicron. The flow-chart (click on the link) indicates about half of the emergency department visits related to Omicron are in vaccinated people.

This is really stretching the word "partial". Every vaccine we have for every disease provides "partial" protection.

The study you linked to shows that those who are boosted have a vaccine effectiveness of 89%. That is an absolutely remarkable number and a miracle of modern medicine. If everyone received the vaccine, the virus would likely cease to exist (barring some massive genetic mutation).

I get that you're trying to muddy the water, but you're just providing links to studies that prove how well the vaccine works.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

We miss the opportunity to find out what his objections are when we vilify him, call him a heretic, make fun of his girlfriend's past, reduce his arguments to simple extreme statements and then attack those like he's an idiot. When we talk about "horse paste" and accuse him of being a Klan member.

No we didn't. He explained what his objections were to a national audience. From blood clots to infertility to exceptionally rare allergic reactions. Many experts in the field proceeded to address his objections and show they are not merited using actual data we have from scientific studies.

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Perhaps, even, there are things you Believe that haven't been shown at all. If you've been relying on government appointees and the media rather than looking at studies, it's possible you've come to some conclusions that are just as dangerous as anyone else's. I don't know. You don't present yourself as someone who could have a calm, rational conversation about all of this. You sound just as entrenched as the extreme controversy Believers on the other side.

We aren't talking about things I believe that haven't been shown at all. What I believe is backed up by countless data points and scientific studies (even the studies you posted). There is no political or religious slant to that. Just as there is no slant to when I take an antibiotic when I have an infection.

I don't really know how you can debate someone who believes all the evidence is a vast global conspiracy. It's why conspiracy theorists are hard to debate. Everyone who provides evidence to the contrary is part of the conspiracy or in Rodgers case, trying to "cancel" him.

[albionmoonlight]

As a result of the @US_FDA's abrupt decision to remove the EUAs for two monoclonal antibodies, monoclonal antibody treatment sites will be closed until further notice. Full press release is below. pic.twitter.com/RGeWTPwxCs

— Florida Dept. of Health (@HealthyFla) January 25, 2022

For those keeping track, anti-vax logic is we can't trust the fully authorized vaccines because there isn't enough evidence. BUT actually, no, the government should authorize any treatment whatsoever unless there is a clinical study saying that it is harmful.

This isn't even about medicine anymore. It's an assault on the idea of using logic itself.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

Even better. Apparently, there is just a concession on the Right that Republicans will benefit from COVID treatments more than Democrats.

The FDA is trying to make it so that people in Florida die of Covid. They’ll kill people to harm Republicans. Steel yourselves for the evil that is being unleashed. https://t.co/hP55vngVbh

— Cernovich (@Cernovich) January 25, 2022

And why might the members of the political party who are more likely to be vaccinated have less need for extreme COVID treatments? I guess we'll never know.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

As a result of the @US_FDA's abrupt decision to remove the EUAs for two monoclonal antibodies, monoclonal antibody treatment sites will be closed until further notice. Full press release is below. pic.twitter.com/RGeWTPwxCs

— Florida Dept. of Health (@HealthyFla) January 25, 2022

For those keeping track, anti-vax logic is we can't trust the fully authorized vaccines because there isn't enough evidence. BUT actually, no, the government should authorize any treatment whatsoever unless there is a clinical study saying that it is harmful.

This isn't even about medicine anymore. It's an assault on the idea of using logic itself.

The only way to keep the outrage against THEM (and fear of THEM) going is to oppose everything they do. It doesn't matter if it's logical or prudent or even falls within what has historically been a conservative position, agreeing means that you have something in common with evil, and that cannot stand.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

dola:

Even better. Apparently, there is just a concession on the Right that Republicans will benefit from COVID treatments more than Democrats.

The FDA is trying to make it so that people in Florida die of Covid. They’ll kill people to harm Republicans. Steel yourselves for the evil that is being unleashed. Florida Dept. of Health on Twitter: "As a result of the @US_FDA's abrupt decision to remove the EUAs for two monoclonal antibodies, monoclonal antibody treatment sites will be closed until further notice. Full press release is below.… https://t.co/79v1N599IH"
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) January 25, 2022

And why might the members of the political party who are more likely to be vaccinated have less need for extreme COVID treatments? I guess we'll never know.

It's also part of that whole lack of imagination where you accuse your "enemies" of that horrible thing you've already done. Remember when Jared Kushner killed off COVID testing because it was killing more blue state voters?

How Jared Kushner’s Secret Testing Plan “Went Poof Into Thin Air� | Vanity Fair

SI

[Castlerock]

Until today, I didn't realize that this was a thing... but I'm also not at all shocked.

My neighbor and her husband both got COVID. Instead of going to her doctor, she saw a fee-based doctor virtually and was prescribed Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin. The doctor also told them "Make sure you don't go to the hospital. Don't let them take you to the hospital."

My immediate thought was... so this is what all those doctors that were writing hundreds of Oxycontin prescriptions a day are doing now.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

Until today, I didn't realize that this was a thing... but I'm also not at all shocked.

My neighbor and her husband both got COVID. Instead of going to her doctor, she saw a fee-based doctor virtually and was prescribed Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin. The doctor also told them "Make sure you don't go to the hospital. Don't let them take you to the hospital."

My immediate thought was... so this is what all those doctors that were writing hundreds of Oxycontin prescriptions a day are doing now.

Ivermectin frenzy: the advocates, anti-vaxxers and telehealth companies driving demand | Coronavirus | The Guardian

Those are some of the very same people (or members of the same organisations) that stand on podiums and decry the money grabbing of *insert anybody in pharma or medicine down to the nurses getting paid extra for administering vaccines on Sundays*.

[thesloppy]

Has the increased demand on Ivermectin either reduced the supply or increased the cost to people/livestock that need it for its real use? I've never seen that directly addressed in any articles. If so than taking or promoting it for evidence-free, off-label usage isn't a harmless exercise.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Has the increased demand on Ivermectin either reduced the supply or increased the cost to people/livestock that need it for its real use? I've never seen that directly addressed in any articles. If so than taking or promoting it for evidence-free, off-label usage isn't a harmless exercise.

Why yes, of course it has:

In countries where there’s either a shortage of ivermectin meant for humans or people are unable to get prescriptions, some are seeking out the veterinary variant, which can pose the risk of severe side effects. Afrivet Business Management, a major South African maker of animal medicines, has seen prices of its ivermectin product at retail outlets in the country jump tenfold, to almost 1,000 rand ($66) per 10 milliliters.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

So Dr. Emerson began rationing the medicine to give to snakes and other exotic animals for which she had no other deworming treatment. She told dog owners to pay for a more available replacement drug that can cost seven times as much

.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/28/t...-shortage.html


More:

US horse owners face ivermectin shortage as humans chase unproven Covid ‘cure’ | Coronavirus | The Guardian

Ivermectin is a wonder drug but not for COVID — and misinformation is causing a shortage


People also tend to be more likely to overdose taking stuff 'off-label' (Actual off-label use would still require a doctor to specifically prescribe it along with verbal advise on dosage, which obviously isn't likely to be the case for many getting it via these telemarketing firms or other dodgy methods). And even aside from all that: of course it's inherently dangerous to sell people on what might well be nothing more than a Placebo. Because of course that influences not only their or their environments decision to get vaccinated but also seek proper treatment once ill. Delaying this because you have a 'cure' at home or on the way isn't exactly going to improve the outcome.

[RainMaker]

I know some feed stores in Wisconsin were stashing the stuff behind the counter and requiring proof you owned an actual horse (or other animal that would use it).

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by whomario

Why yes, of course it has:

Thanks for that info. I feel like a lot of Ivermectin promoters have framed it as an entirely personal choice, and touted its lifesaving history, while ignoring that any dosage someone takes for unproven covid treatment is actively reducing the supply to those folks/animals who have a proven use for it.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I know some feed stores in Wisconsin were stashing the stuff behind the counter and requiring proof you owned an actual horse (or other animal that would use it).

this sounded like a butcher shop the way you described it

[whomario]

https://mobile.twitter.com/gorskon/s...41701785890823

Speaking of consequences going much further than 'only' personal choice or Covid. This is NOT about Covid vaccine mandates or Covid vaccines for the figures you see at the head of those movements or the politicians latching onto them.

Also, FOX isn't even bothering to hide it's agenda anymore:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattGertz...72329172140032

Perfect illustration by the way on muddying the waters with talk of treatments in a vacuum and as a replacement for prevention. Treatments are great ti have but not having them or their respective limitations (availability, effectiveness, timing of when they help vs when people get them) isn't a conspiracy. It's literally bitching about issues that were communicated beforehand.

(Good on the guest doctor, who certainly isn't coming back, for pointing out the obvious)

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattGertz...60372910465033

"Personal choice" (Alex Berenson saying the vaccines should be shelved entirely)

[Edward64]

Not a medical ethics person but this sounds right to me. I generally admire someone sticking to his principles but this seems so unnecessarily stubborn. Is this non-vax principle really worth it at death's door? What really is it about "this vaccination" that is keeping you from getting a heart transplant that will very likely prolong your life for X years?

In this particular case, it doesn't seem his anti-vax stance is putting anyone at risk so have at it. The next patient in line might want to write this guy a nice thank you letter.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brigham...et-vaccinated/

A Boston hospital says it won't consider performing a heart transplant on a patient who refuses to get vaccinated against COVID-19, CBS Boston reports.

DJ Ferguson, 31, is fighting for his life at Brigham and Women's Hospital and in desperate need of a heart transplant.
:
DJ's family says he was at the front of the line to receive a transplant but hospital policy stipulates that he's no longer eligible because he hasn't received the vaccination. And David Ferguson says his son simply won't.

"It's kind of against his basic principles — he doesn't believe in it," David Ferguson says. "It's a policy they are enforcing and so, because he won't get the shot, they took him off the list (for) a heart transplant."

Brigham and Women's released a statement saying, "Like many other transplant programs in the United States — the COVID-19 vaccine is one of several vaccines and lifestyle behaviors required for transplant candidates in the Mass General Brigham system in order to create both the best chance for a successful operation and also the patient's survival after transplantation."
:
"Post any transplant, kidney, heart whatever, your immune system is shut off," Caplan said. "The flu could kill you, a cold could kill you, COVID could kill you. The organs are scarce, we are not going to distribute them to someone who has a poor chance of living when others who are vaccinated have a better chance post-surgery of surviving."

[Lathum]

It’s mind blowingly idiotic. So the vaccine kills him lets say. Gonna sue anyway dude and if you’re concerned about what you are putting in your body newsflash. You’re going to take about 20 pills a day.

My mother in law is a heart transplant recipient. The amount of meds she takes is insane.

[spleen1015]

These people are beyond my comprehension.

[Edward64]

I certainly don't think its a malicious thing but seems there are a lot of pharmacies refusing to give 4th shots for immune compromised folks.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/26/healt...sed/index.html

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention plans to send a clear message to pharmacies on a conference call this week: Stop turning away immune-compromised people when they come seeking fourth doses of Covid-19 vaccines.

Although fourth doses are not currently recommended for the vast majority of Americans, the CDC has urged millions of people with compromised immune systems to get them.

But many immune-compromised people tell CNN that pharmacies and hospitals have refused to give them fourth doses, leaving those most vulnerable to the virus without the protection the CDC wants them to have.

Several of the pharmacies that denied fourth shots told CNN that they look to their state health departments for guidance, and they'd heard nothing from them about fourth shots for immune-compromised people.

Seems more of mis-communication (or under communication). I didn't realize pharmacies look for final guidance on State vs CDC. Basically, State websites are not up to date. Hope they get this fixed soon.

Several of the pharmacies that denied fourth shots told CNN that they look to their state health departments for guidance, and they'd heard nothing from them about fourth shots for immune-compromised people.

Crystal Boatenreiter, a liver transplant recipient, says she was denied a fourth shot at Springfield Drug Store in Springfield, Louisiana.

David Cassanova, the pharmacist there, told CNN that he's been watching his state website and hasn't seen anything about fourth shots for immune-compromised people.

"People on the front lines are not familiar with fourth doses being available yet," he said. "We haven't been given guidance on this."
:
A review last week by CNN found that several state health departments fail to mention on their websites that the CDC recommends four shots for immune-compromised people.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

These people are beyond my comprehension.

"It's his body. It's his choice," Ferguson added.

I would love to know this families stance on abortion.

[NobodyHere]

Covid has developed stealth technology!

Health officials monitoring new 'stealth Omicron' subvariant

I wonder if my coworker got this one. She started showing symptoms, then she took a test that ended up negative. A week later she took another test that came back positive.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Covid has developed stealth technology!

Health officials monitoring new 'stealth Omicron' subvariant

I wonder if my coworker got this one. She started showing symptoms, then she took a test that ended up negative. A week later she took another test that came back positive.

That's so stupid and sensationalist. not you, the article. (It is the NY Post after all)
Tldr version: No, the tests identify every variant/subtype including this one. There's merely a little sort of 'life hack' for labs that is now a little (!) less usefull in positively identifying it as a subtype since this new subtype and Delta give the same 'readout' in the lab looking at the test result while Delta and the original Omicron looked different.
For your coworker a likely scenario is simply that one sample was less well taken or handled for example. Or she just got her symptoms uncharacteristically early in the process of viral load buildup.

The long version:

You'll notice the article very much avoids burdening the reader with any explanation of how or why it's more difficult to detect, yet somehow the danish authorities referenced still quite obviously manage it, seeing they can quantify it's prevalence (65%) and btw also have record case rates, not exactly flying under their radar is this bugger

The answer: It's 'stealth' aspect due to a certain mysterious and unspecified genetical trait has no bearing on tests ability to detect it as SarsCov2 (positive test). It makes it a little harder to identify it as a subtype very quickly with very high certainty but even that is largely a theoretical issue. There's this phenomenon, exclusive to PCR Tests called Spike Gene Target Failure (SGTF) which means that the 'portion' of the PCR Test looking at the Spike Gene comes up negative while the other portions targetting different Genes showing positive.
A PCR Test is essentially a testing series looking at multiple, usually 4 IIRC areas of the genome to make it able to identify the Virus (and only this one) reliably even if there are genetic changes to some areas or, say, certain genomes are better preserved in a sample than others. Even if just 1 shows positive you still know it is SarsCov2.
(Antigen tests work a bit differently in some ways but are also designed to detect all variants)

Now with Delta the Spike Gene portion showed positive, with Omicron it didn't due to a specific mutation: A small area of the S gene is missing (a deletion) in the Spike Gene. This meant that the lab could preliminarily differentiate the 2 quickly rather than waiting for full scale sequencing results. Imagine it usually coming back as PPPN for Omicron but PPPP for Delta.
This new Omicron Subtype, BA.2 for now, does not have this deletion but is otherwise so similar that it is still considered a subtype of Omicron. So now in theory you can't as easily tell if it is Delta or Omicron. In practice however Delta has been getting so rare and declining most everywhere that with more and more of tests showing as PPPP again (and of course a portion of cases getting fully sequenced in the lab, alerting scientists to the new subtype being there) you can still use the SGTF as a proxy to differentiate the difference between Omicron and BA.2.

Denmark did hit a sort of plateau of cases that then took off again after a couple of days, so it seems reasonable to think this has outcompeted the 'normal' Omicron at a time when it was starting to fizzle out there. This may also well mean other countries with different timing will see 2 seperate Omicron waves ...

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

These people are beyond my comprehension.

What is beyond most of our comprehension is the power of the communication tactics that have brought most of these people to this point.

[whomario]

For a professional take on these things 2 Twitter Threads by Scientists regularly explaining these things very well:

��NO! There is no new variant that isn't detectable by PCR��

The a new set of sequences, closely related to #Omicron has been detected & we *absolutely can* detect cases with PCR. What we can't tell as easily is /that they are Omicron or Omicron-like/.https://t.co/5bCKxdv8vF

— Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66) December 7, 2021

COVID-19 surveillance, England. The most recent 5 days (to 28 Nov) show an increase in S gene target failure in community testing data. An explainer follows. �� pic.twitter.com/ZBEMEzbpOt

— Nick Davies (@_nickdavies) December 2, 2021

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I wonder if my coworker got this one. She started showing symptoms, then she took a test that ended up negative. A week later she took another test that came back positive.

There are a lot of informal indications that many Omicron cases do not fully exhibit in the nasal cavity, so people testing that way might show false negatives, while swabbing the throat would yield an accurate positive test.

Frustrating, as we want to hang a lot of day-to-day functional policy around the value of a negative test.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

These people are beyond my comprehension.

what's to comprehend. They are stubborn stupid assholes.

[CrimsonFox]

For my birthday, instead of presents, I would like you to go out and tell an antimasker or antivaxxer to go to hell.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

For my birthday, instead of presents, I would like you to go out and tell an antimasker or antivaxxer to go to hell.

In lieu of flowers, send flaming bags of dog poop to Joe Rogan and his cadre of snake oil salesmen.

SI

[Edward64]

Denmark is opening up!

[JPhillips]

Hopefully this is causing some people to finally see the benefits of the vaccines.

Robert LaMay, the ex-Washington state trooper who said the governor could “kiss his ass” over the state’s vaccine mandate, has died

He was reportedly battling COVID and unvaccinated pic.twitter.com/HMOmR5wkq0

— philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) January 29, 2022

[cuervo72]

Judging by the first few responses...nah.

Washington trooper who defied state vaccine mandate and told gov to 'kiss my a--' dies from COVID-19 | Fox News

[cuervo72]

I mean, fuck 'em. They want to be martyrs, let them be martyrs.

[stevew]

I don’t feel owned by his unnecessary death.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

In lieu of flowers, send flaming bags of dog poop to Joe Rogan and his cadre of snake oil salesmen.

SI

I think a more fitting karma would be that he has to eat ALL of the things he made his contestants eat on Fear Factor.

[CrimsonFox]

[Edward64]

Another mutation that is easier to catch but current vaccines should do the job.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/27/healt...ba2/index.html

A new spinoff of the Omicron variant of the coronavirus is getting attention from scientists as it becomes the dominant cause of Covid-19 infections in some parts of the world.

Experts say there's no reason to panic over the lineage, called BA.2, which was first identified in early December and has since spread to 49 countries including the United States.
:
:
There's no indication that BA.2 causes more severe disease or spreads more easily than the original strain of Omicron. A report released Thursday by the UK's Health Security Agency offers additional reassurance, suggesting that current vaccines protect about as well against BA.2 as they do against the original Omicron variant, with better protection against symptoms — an average of about 70% -- two weeks after a booster.

And about my comment above about Denmark opening up ...

In Denmark, BA.2 now accounts for about half of all new Covid-19 cases, according to a recent statement from Denmark's Statens Serum Institute.

On Thursday, Dr. Sujeet Kumar Singh, director of India's National Centre for Disease Control, said that BA.2 had become the dominant strain there.

[Edward64]

Neil Young probably knew he would lose out to Rogan but hoped he would start something going. So kudos to Joni Mitchell for joining.

This brings up the question if/when will other "more popular" artists will join the fight. Obviously they'll have to assess the cost/benefit of such a move.

Singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell said she will remove her music from Spotify, following controversy over vaccine misinformation hosted on the streaming platform.

"Irresponsible people are spreading lies that are costing people their lives," the Canadian musician wrote in a statement posted on her website Friday. "I stand in solidarity with Neil Young and the global scientific and medical communities on this issue."

[Lathum]

Been saying this whole time Neil Young isn't shit, but if Taylor Swift and a few others jump in they are in real risk of being a platform that has Rogan, Ted Nugent, and Kid Rock as their draws.

[NobodyHere]

Why is Joe Rogan's podcast popular? What is his appeal?

I'm not insinuating any criticism here but I really don't know who the guy is other than hearing about his podcast.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Why is Joe Rogan's podcast popular? What is his appeal?

I'm not insinuating any criticism here but I really don't know who the guy is other than hearing about his podcast.

Rogan may have had a standup carerer but the first time i saw him was on the 90s sitcom Newsradio. He was hilarious there as was everyone. That was the first time I saw Stephen Root(Office Space, King of the Hill), Maura Tierney (ER), Khandi ALexander (CSI Miami), Vicki Lewis (Finding Nemo), Andy DIck (Ben Stiller show/Andy Dick show) too.

After that he did Fear Factor forever a survivor like reality show that skipped the voting out and just made people do challenges to tackle their fear...usually things involving heights, vehicles, and eating disgusting animal parts.

I don't know how or why or when he became a rightwing mouthpiece the size of Moreton Downey Jr or Rush Limbaugh. The more obnoxious they are, the more the right follows them seems to be the rule

[CrimsonFox]

[QuikSand]

It's an empowering feeling when you gather that you have it right, and they are suckers and are missing it. That's basically always been the motivation behind conspiracy theories and the psychology at work is what makes stuff like Art Bell popular. It's invigorating to have someone say "you and me, we get it, not like those other people."

That's an awful lot of what's going on with the wave of... skepticism isn't the right word... denialism, maybe. you don't lure someone to that side with logic or information, you lure them there with empowerment and satisfaction. (And that's also why logic and information are rarely useful on helping anyone out of that mindset)

People like Aaron Rodgers, frex, really are convinced "I did my own research" and that feels good to say. It's horseshit, of course, he just skimmed through some crap that supported his predispositions, and ignored stuff from sources he was inclined to ignore. We're all human, we all do it to a degree.

But when you beg someone to join your side, on today's topics of vaccinations and COVID-related points of view, you're all but telling them to trade in "I'm the one who makes the decision" and instead accept "someone else will make the decision for me," and that feels impossibly stupid and dangerous and hard, especially if they've bought in along the way to the notion that the scientists and politicians are not merely wrong about this, but that they have evil or harmful intentions.

This is powerful stuff.

[QuikSand]

I'm not an expert on Joe Rogan, but have listened now and then... he's a pretty good interviewer, and I think his appeal is partially pandering to the "badass" side, right? Just enough non-conformist stuff to make him a bit edgy, he smokes weed in the studio with Elon Musk and that makes headlines... but he gets Elon Musk into the studio at this point. I think it's a bit like Howard Stern in his prime - Stern was actually a gifted interviewer in my view, but he knew that his schtick required spanking lesbians from time to time to keep it rated R, and that there's a formula for being more widely popular than Fresh Air on public radio.

Rogan gets that, feels like a free spirit, and maybe isn't teflon enough to resist the draw of some of the low-hanging fruit of a conspiracy here and a russian propaganda article there... and so he falls into saying to a huge audience of millions and millions that (paraphrasing) "young healthy people shouldn't get the vaccine, this isn't a risky disease, but the vaccine is risky." Onece a bunch of authority figures line up to try to shout him down, he ends up trapped in this psychology... and predictably, he just goes full on jbmagic here and doubles his bet every next step. He'll bark untruths at the epidemiologist he has on as a guest, he'll go out of his way to find cockeyed sources to back up the side he has now taken.

I don't think he's a genuine right-winger, I think he's a regular guy, an actor, trying professionally to remain interesting and popular and relevant... and that has worked really well for him. Going public two or three steps into this and saying "gee, I really was a dope and didn't know what i was talking about, I'm so glad that some smart people fixed that for me" is counter to that brand, as well as counter to human instincts... so it won't happen. We all dig in facing that situation, and he just gave into strong instincts there.

Not saying he's blameless, but I think the whole thing is pretty understandable. It sucks, because he does have a meaningful effect on views of many listeners, I'm certain... he's almost certainly killed people as a consequence of his decision to be provocative on this.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I'm not an expert on Joe Rogan, but have listened now and then... he's a pretty good interviewer, and I think his appeal is partially pandering to the "badass" side, right? Just enough non-conformist stuff to make him a bit edgy, he smokes weed in the studio with Elon Musk and that makes headlines... but he gets Elon Musk into the studio at this point. I think it's a bit like Howard Stern in his prime - Stern was actually a gifted interviewer in my view, but he knew that his schtick required spanking lesbians from time to time to keep it rated R, and that there's a formula for being more widely popular than Fresh Air on public radio.

Rogan gets that, feels like a free spirit, and maybe isn't teflon enough to resist the draw of some of the low-hanging fruit of a conspiracy here and a russian propaganda article there... and so he falls into saying to a huge audience of millions and millions that (paraphrasing) "young healthy people shouldn't get the vaccine, this isn't a risky disease, but the vaccine is risky." Onece a bunch of authority figures line up to try to shout him down, he ends up trapped in this psychology... and predictably, he just goes full on jbmagic here and doubles his bet every next step. He'll bark untruths at the epidemiologist he has on as a guest, he'll go out of his way to find cockeyed sources to back up the side he has now taken.

I don't think he's a genuine right-winger, I think he's a regular guy, an actor, trying professionally to remain interesting and popular and relevant... and that has worked really well for him. Going public two or three steps into this and saying "gee, I really was a dope and didn't know what i was talking about, I'm so glad that some smart people fixed that for me" is counter to that brand, as well as counter to human instincts... so it won't happen. We all dig in facing that situation, and he just gave into strong instincts there.

Not saying he's blameless, but I think the whole thing is pretty understandable. It sucks, because he does have a meaningful effect on views of many listeners, I'm certain... he's almost certainly killed people as a consequence of his decision to be provocative on this.

I've never been a Rogan fan but I did get his appeal. I've described it as the guy that graduated high school a few years ago and still hangs around high schoolers smoking weed, buying beer, and dropping his worldly knowledge. It's cringe to a lot of people, but it strikes a certain cord with others.

I don't believe he's a right winger, but I do think he's seen the grift from others surrounding the MAGA movement and found himself a place firmly within that circle while tossing enough of his non-MAGA followers just enough of a bone to keep them around.

[RainMaker]

I think some of the anger toward Rogan is misguided. He's just a dumb guy who gets his views from random YouTube videos. This has been the case long before the pandemic. I think people like Carlson are worse because they know the truth but distort it for money.

His views aren't necessarily right-wing, it's just contrarian (which I guess is mostly the entire right-wing movement at this point). Common dumb guy who wants to look smart move. And other dumb people fall for it. There is no doubt his show has led to countless deaths, but I feel the bulk of the blame still goes to the audience who are just acting as a death cult now.

It'll be interesting to see how Spotify handles things. They killed their customer service yesterday to prevent people from cancelling which is likely not a good sign for how things are going. Losing a handful of artists is not going to matter, and music is a loss leader for their service. I don't think they'll ditch Rogan, but I do think it's a pretty big opportunity for competitors to snipe some market share.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think some of the anger toward Rogan is misguided. He's just a dumb guy who gets his views from random YouTube videos. This has been the case long before the pandemic. I think people like Carlson are worse because they know the truth but distort it for money.

His views aren't necessarily right-wing, it's just contrarian (which I guess is mostly the entire right-wing movement at this point). Common dumb guy who wants to look smart move. And other dumb people fall for it. There is no doubt his show has led to countless deaths, but I feel the bulk of the blame still goes to the audience is just part of a death cult at this point.

It'll be interesting to see how Spotify handles things. They killed their customer service yesterday to prevent people from cancelling which is likely not a good sign for how things are going. Losing a handful of artists is not going to matter, and music is a loss leader for their service. I don't think they'll ditch Rogan, but I do think it's a pretty big opportunity for competitors to snipe some market share.

Tucker Carlson is 1000x times more dangerous as there are people that watch people like him and Hannity on Fox News and believe they're getting actual news. They're outright inflammatory and keep their audience's attention by keeping them angry. Rogan sells himself as the guy that wants to see things from the other perspective. He is 100% a professional contrarian.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

That's an awful lot of what's going on with the wave of... skepticism isn't the right word... denialism, maybe. you don't lure someone to that side with logic or information, you lure them there with empowerment and satisfaction. (And that's also why logic and information are rarely useful on helping anyone out of that mindset)

I just want to say that I think this is a very interesting statement.

[RainMaker]

The #Suffolk County DA arrested two people including the owner of an Amityville pediatric office for selling fake Covid-19 vaccine cards. $220 for adults, $85 for children. Ledgers show they may have made $1.5 million dollars from this illegal scheme #NBC4NY pic.twitter.com/jm0bcOkCeX

— Pei-Sze Cheng (@PeiSzeCheng4NY) January 28, 2022