Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

NJPW is the exact opposite, they could have taken the opportunity to push new guys when Ospreay and Okada left last year, and they didn't. And they gave Jeff Cobb a title a week before leaving! That's insane.

Well, they've given several guys a shot at pushes, the success rate has varied.

Tsuji is a legit main eventer, the part-time deal (?) with Takeshita gives them another. Arguably the two most promising talents on the planet right now.

There hasn't been a more dynamic guy in the company than Gabe Kidd for the past year. (whether he sticks around remains a question) And against all odds, they seem to have finally revived Finlay's usefulness at least a little in the past few weeks.

Oiwa, Uemura, Maloney, Boltin are all up the card from where they were a year ago.

Shooter? Well, MAYBE they've got ... something ... figured out now. Cause he'd flopped hard until the latest attitude adjustment.

All that said, among their many problems is that they didn't really have much of the youth in the midcard, ready to elevate to the top tier. You can only move the youngsters fresh out of black trunks up the card so fast without getting pushback from their domestic fans. That's left them trying to plug holes and buy time with Goto et al.

But if they don't stop bending over & grabbing their ankles every time an English speaking company wants to fuck them I'm not sure all that young talent will really matter, nobody may be left to give a fuck by the time it's ready to be top level talent

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sigh.

Confirmed this morning that Naito and NJPW have "mutually agreed" to not renew his contract. His last day with the company will be May 4th.

[RainMaker]

What the hell? Where is NJPW spending their money?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What the hell? Where is NJPW spending their money?

Same place every sports team I root for is. They aren’t.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oh, just to add to the NJPW woes ... official now, Bushi has asked for and received his release from the company. His last day is the same as Naito's (working through May 4th)

Casuals may not realize what a blow that is but he's worked more matches for the company than anyone on the roster each of the last three years. And has never been lower than 7th in matches worked since 2015. (4x most used worker in that span)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What the hell? Where is NJPW spending their money?

Feels like we're getting closer and closer to the phrase "WHAT money?"

[Mota]

We may see Satoshi Kojima, Jushin Thunder Liger and Great Muta coming back at this rate to fill in the rosters.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

We may see Satoshi Kojima, Jushin Thunder Liger and Great Muta coming back at this rate to fill in the rosters.

Kojima's in shape at least, working pretty steadily for MLW in recent months.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Interesting tweet from Minoru Suzuki tonight (it's a Grok translation so I doubt it's precise but the gist of it feels accurate)

"Looks like they're doing it in the same vibe as Minoru Suzuki"
Don't get it twisted. It ain't the same. I've been freelancing for over 20 years without signing a contract with anyone. Living day-to-day as a day laborer.
To the clueless wrestling fans: Don't underestimate freelancers.

[Mota]

I just don't see the value in Naito anywhere but in Japan. Even with Okada, his value is much less in the USA than in Japan. And he's still a great wrestler. Naito can't wrestle like he used to, and his English is not good. He really needs to stay in Japan as an attraction.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

I just don't see the value in Naito anywhere but in Japan. Even with Okada, his value is much less in the USA than in Japan. And he's still a great wrestler. Naito can't wrestle like he used to, and his English is not good. He really needs to stay in Japan as an attraction.

I don't get the sense he's going to do much else. This feels more health related than anything to me. He had said just a few weeks back that he wouldn't re-sign if he didn't believe he could physically make it to the end of the contract. I don't believe he ever fully recovered from the eye surgeries, then the knee surgeries.

Most likely NOAH gives him a good payday for a limited schedule, he does that as long as he can and then rides off into the sunset.

[RainMaker]

I feel the same about Okada. He's just bigger in Japan. Messing around in the AEW midcard feels beneath him and I'm aware he's sort of lost a step.

Naito is just NJPW to me. I can't fathom him anywhere else and don't see why NJPW didn't offer him some kind of limited schedule (maybe they did and he didn't want it?). There's just some guys who mean that much to a promotion that you have to overpay to keep them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I feel the same about Okada. He's just bigger in Japan. Messing around in the AEW midcard feels beneath him and I'm aware he's sort of lost a step.

Naito is just NJPW to me. I can't fathom him anywhere else and don't see why NJPW didn't offer him some kind of limited schedule (maybe they did and he didn't want it?). There's just some guys who mean that much to a promotion that you have to overpay to keep them.

I really don't think he wanted one honestly (though reports say there were extensive negotiations) but once again, feels like the phrase "with what money" comes into play. They've been too busy wasting their few dollars on "talent" like Sasha Banks to actually pay anyone that might be of some benefit to them. They never recovered from the lost revenue of the Covid era and at this point I don't see any way they ever really can.

My son -- owner of more than one piece of LiJ merch -- put it best I think "THIS feels likes the true end of an era".

Hiromu will most likely be next of the true NJPW core to go IMO. He's slowed down considerably after all the injuries and only really has major value as a name and attraction at this point.

The combination of mistakes made by NJPW "management" in recent years, it boggles the mind.

[JonInMiddleGA]

LiJ final roll call at Korakeun tonight. You could have heard a pin drop until the end.

Sigh.

I gotta clean the batcave, it's a little dusty down here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

WWE has fully acquired Mexico's AAA promotion.

WOW !!!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Let the bidding war for NJPW commence I suppose.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised at all if WWE made noise about that quietly just to force AEW into buying a sinking ship ... then WWE buys NOAH instead

[Toddzilla]

Wow, Jay looks like Walter used to, and it's not good.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Wow, Jay looks like Walter used to, and it's not good.

but but but ... Yeet ... and all that

[Toddzilla]

At least they held back the Jimmy turn - until Monday anyway

[Mota]

Jey is exactly what the WWE is all about. Big entrances that are extended, entrance music, fireworks, and then mediocre wrestling. The people in the arena have fun... but it's definitely not for me.

Also, the WWE purchases AAA, and then they match them up with NXT. You just told the world that they're on par with your minor league team.

[JonInMiddleGA]

We live in a world where Chad Gable is hitting 450s on Ray Fenix ... and staring down Vikingo

What in the name of Karl Gotch and Rey Bucanera is going on

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

Jey is exactly what the WWE is all about. Big entrances that are extended, entrance music, fireworks, and then mediocre wrestling. The people in the arena have fun... but it's definitely not for me.

There isn't really anywhere less conducive to quality wrestling than a WWE PLE.
They're events, they're spectacles, they have some entertainment value ... but it ain't for quality ring work.

Also, the WWE purchases AAA, and then they match them up with NXT. You just told the world that they're on par with your minor league team.

To be fair, there's probably only 1-4 guys (and 4 is generous on my part) on their roster currently that are above NXT level. It's a pretty realistic pairing honestly. The state of the roster there lately isn't great.

[miami_fan]

Not to steal too much from Jon's tradition of sharing commentary from his son, my son mentioned early on in the night that the matches felt rushed.

Instead of a match like Americano/Fenix match getting the bathroom break/concession stand run treatment to give the other matches more room to breath, it felt like every match including that one began ceding time about two minutes in. Jey/Gunther match felt like it was supposed to be a 20-25 minute match that became a 15-17 minute match and the same thing happened all the way to the main event. Every finish felt like someone suffered a serious injury and they had to end the match quickly so the wrestler could get treatment.

I just went back to check the time of the show. Three hours and thirty six minutes. Has a night one ever end before midnight on the east coast much less before eleven?

[dubb93]

WWE delivered as advertised last night as a show with a shitty build delivered a pretty bad show.

I’d also agree on abrupt endings. I’m especially not sure what that Jey-Gunther ending was. They are booking Gunther the complete opposite of The Undertaker where he seems to shit the bed every year at WrestleMania. I didn’t expect him to win but to have Jey Uso of all people make him tap to his own finisher is pretty bad.

[Toddzilla]

Self-own here as WWE posted a video of just the entrances from last night and even cut-down a little it's over 30 minutes long.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Self-own here as WWE posted a video of just the entrances from last night and even cut-down a little it's over 30 minutes long.

But that's what WWE audiences have been taught to enjoy, so this is actually a positive for them.

[miami_fan]

See, it is possible to have a match people like and and a spectacle people want.

[dubb93]

Who had Stone Cold crashing an ATV into a fan on their bingo card?

[RainMaker]

Raw after Mania last night was really good. Maybe one of the best episodes they've ever done.

With that said, I thought WM was a dud. Fine for a standard PPV, but nothing all that memorable outside of the night 1 main event swerve. Maybe I just didn't really get into any of the feuds and thought most of the payoffs were lame. The spectacle is always there, but good lord they whore themselves out for every ad dollar they can. Say what you want about Vince, but he understood when to hold back on that stuff.

I guess the biggest issue is the main event. Why was The Rock involved in any of this for the past year and just not show up at Mania? What was the point? The Cena heel turn is fine and him winning is cool too, but holy shit did they make Cody look like a geek. Just kind of stood there and let Cena kick him in the dick. No real aggression, no real drive to win, no anger toward what Cena had done and said to him. He came across like a loser.

And can someone explain why in the middle of the main event of Wrestlemania with 2 of their biggest stars, they stopped the match for a 5 minute entrance from a rapper who hasn't been good in like 8 years? And then when he gets in the ring, Cody has a conversation with him despite the fact he cheap shotted Cody a couple months ago and busted his eardrum. The whole ending was real awkward which sucks because they were having a pretty good match.

[dubb93]

The Rock stuff is really silly. For all the positive he did for the product last year he was a real negative on the product this year. The guy is one of the most prominent members of the board of the fucking company and you are telling me he’s too busy to show up to WrestleMania? He can’t take like literally 3 days off of his other shit to show up and help build towards the biggest show the company he sits on the board of runs each year? They just sold 124,000 tickets to his company but apparently that isn’t enough for him to come finish the storyline he stuck his nose into?

If he can’t that’s fine but then he shouldn’t have stuck himself into the storyline in the first place. If he would have just sat at home and not made himself the reason Cena turned his back on the world and not have gotten involved again with Cody then I think the whole story would have been better received.

At this point he’s looking at building now three matches for himself here recently that I have zero expectation that will ever take place. I know one of them is dead with HHH retiring, and Roman looks dead based on the way he made him the tribal chief in January, and now there is no reason to believe that this two years of Cody stuff is going anywhere either.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Access to this page has been denied

Rest in peace Mongo

[JonInMiddleGA]

For all the concern about the NJPW roster depletion, I think we've reached the point where they're probably not any worse off (and maybe better off) than Stardom.

Mayu Iwatani has now made her departure official after the end of her 700+ day title reign.

Mina Shirakawa left a month ago, Thekla has now been written off TV with her departure for the U.S. believed imminent, Tam Nakano quietly lost a retirement match on the same night Iwatani dropped the IWGP belt and that's on top of Giulia, Hayashishita and MIRAI, all leaving in the past year.

Yes that does speak to just how deep their roster was but it's getting pretty thin beyond the slim ranks of the remaining top tier (Syuri, AZM, Starlight Kid) and the few vets behind them (Natsupoi, Watanabe).

The roster parallels are kind of striking to me, with Stardom probably being a little better off at the very highest level but NJPW being better off with more potential stars who might be ready to step up.

[Mota]

It was a major blow to Stardom, but they can handle it. Their roster is so deep, that they don't have much of a set hierarchy. But they did lose a ton of their names. You also didn't mention Maika who is out long term with a shoulder injury.

I think Marigold has done a better job of building their rookies, but that's because they have an extremely thin roster and they're forced to do it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

It was a major blow to Stardom, but they can handle it. Their roster is so deep, that they don't have much of a set hierarchy. But they did lose a ton of their names. You also didn't mention Maika who is out long term with a shoulder injury.

I think Marigold has done a better job of building their rookies, but that's because they have an extremely thin roster and they're forced to do it.

Was just talking with Will last week about how quiet things have seemed to be about/with Marigold. Outside of diehard joshi fans, I dunno, it feels like it hardly exists (compared to the initial buzz about it)

[Mota]

Well you'll probably have Mayu going there shortly. But they have a huge lack of star power. There is a clear difference between the stars and the lower roster in Marigold. But they have a "super rookie" Seri Yamaoka that went to 15 minute draw with Mirai in her first match, I think she was an amateur wrestler before going pro, so she is very hyped. Then they made her tag champs with Nanae Takahashi which has been very good to elevate her.

To to be honest, Marigold is not required viewing in any way right now.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Mota

To to be honest, (Insert any fed here) is not required viewing in any way right now.

I lean more towards this now-a-days

[RainMaker]

Thoroughly impressed by what Dominic Mysterio has become. The guy just gets professional wrestling and him becoming a babyface is entirely based on how well he played his heel role. He's one of those guys you just can tell is having a blast in the business and doesn't have an ego.

There was an interview where he talks about that brutal injury to JD McDonough. He said how horrible he felt because he didn't really understand how bad it was and he told JD to do a moonsault to end the match. His thinking was that his finisher would not be strong enough to beat a big guy so it needed more. Just the fact that he was protecting the other wrestler and admitting his finisher should not be enough to keep him down says a lot about the guy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

His thinking was that his finisher would not be strong enough to beat a big guy so it needed more. Just the fact that he was protecting the other wrestler and admitting his finisher should not be enough to keep him down says a lot about the guy.

You're not wrong buuuut ... well, it's kind of an indictment of the state of the industry when this sort of thinking by someone who is in a top level company feels remarkable.

I mean, it's really just Wrestling 201 isn't it? To understand the story you're telling and how to tell it?

He was raised around the business and has now been working in it so it feels like he should understand something like this. Commendable that he does, but that it DOES stand out kind of illustrates how low a bar we accept from the big companies and who they put on display.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, it's one of my gripes with AEW. Feels like a lot of "self marks" who aren't willing to do a job or just look weak. Makes it tough to build guys up.

And the irony is that you can make a damn good living in that role. The Miz is not a great worker by any means, but he's hung around for 20 years now by being that annoying chickenshit heel who gets stomped by the up and coming babyface. Dominic rarely wins or looks strong and is arguably one of the biggest stars in the company now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

One final Destino, one final Tope Suicida ... and with that Naito and Bushi are no longer part of the NJPW roster.

Ngl, I didn't watch. I couldn't. Truly the end of an era.

[JonInMiddleGA]

via Tokyo Sport yesterday

"Naito undergoes left eye surgery, right knee stem cell treatment, focusing on physical maintenance for "the next stage"

I have a feeling we might know what the sticking point(s) in the contract negotiations were. Reading between the lines, I suspect he wanted the procedures and they weren't keen on the downtime with G1 Climax just a couple months away.

[SirFozzie]

If you're squeamish about copious amounts of blood, avoid the Maclin-Young dog collar match from TNA this week, It's so bad it A) Broke the 1.0 Muta mark just from one wrestler, and B ) is so bad that TNA has outlawed blood in matches going forward.

[Mota]

Mance Warner at Joey Janela's spring break is the worst I've ever seen:
Mance Warner vs Gabe Kidd from Spring break 🔥 🩸 #wrestling #gcw #jjsb #gamechangerwrestling #wwe - YouTube

[RainMaker]

RIP Sabu. Don't make them like him anymore.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

RIP Sabu. Don't make them like him anymore.

Wow that's crazy, I just watched his retirement match a few weeks ago.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Mota

Mance Warner at Joey Janela's spring break is the worst I've ever seen:
Mance Warner vs Gabe Kidd from Spring break 🔥 🩸 #wrestling #gcw #jjsb #gamechangerwrestling #wwe - YouTube

That was very Mass Transit like, he is honestly lucky he didn't go out from blood loss.

Also crazy watching Sabu on this card and then 3 weeks later he is gone, wrestling is hard on a persons health when you don't do the things he did.

R.I.P to a legend!

[dubb93]

New Orleans reportedly pulling out of next years WrestleMania after it was already announced. Not a lot of info right now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

New Orleans reportedly pulling out of next years WrestleMania after it was already announced. Not a lot of info right now.

Supposedly part of a long term deal that gives them MitB 2026, UFC 318 (or somesuch) and a future WM.

[RainMaker]

Wonder if we're going to get a London WM next year.

[dubb93]

I'll put my conspiracy hat on and just toss out that I wonder if this isn't some sort of a deal to get The Rock in the ring. I'm sure his schedule is booked out pretty far and if he was willing to come back and wrestle another match at this point could very likely literally name his place. Probably not, but who knows. It's all very odd.