WW 103? - 42 Attempts (Game Over - Conspirators Win)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Danny

Further, on the own victory condition thing. It's no where implied in the rules that this is the case and clearly lists me as a loyal member of the nazi party.

I agree. I understand Autumn's frustration because of our lack of results (presuming his innocence, of course), but I don't see any reason to question your loyalty to the village.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

The 3rd Reich - Win condition of eliminating all conspirators. Major win condition of keeping Hitler alive and eliminating all conspirators. Additional win conditios may be possible for individual players.

This is what I"m talking about. And as I said, I assume you must win with us, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed clear to me that you probably gain a major victory or something based on additional deaths. It's in character, and relates to your duke ability of causing a second lynch. You are right, you did not cause any ties, but it makes me a bit uncertain what might be going on behind your public reasoning. I think it's a valid thing for the village to worry about, and I think you'd have to agree that your voting record has not been great so far.

As I said, tomorrow I will take the time to go over the points, and give my own analysis, etc. I'm sorry I got in too late to really get into it tonight. After the blast I wasn't checking in as much as normal.

[Danny]

I think that's it from me tonight. Autumn, I welcome you to make counter arguments and arguments for other player. And if you are a villager, I realize this has not been a good from me thus far and understand your frustration, but my votes haven't been any worse than anyone else and trying to discredit me is not going to help the village.

[Autumn]

You're right, it would be pointless to go back and point out what I'm talking about with your voting, as certainly we're not going to be looking at you. Nobody's bagged us a wolf yet. I'm just saying you've been leading the charge to a fair extent, natural given that you're a vocal, excellent player - and cleared. But it hasn't worked, and I can see you're barking up the wrong tree today. I'm as fair a target as anyone, but I hope we find some others. This past day was mostly a one target day, and that was frustrating (especially not being able to pipe up).

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Autumn

This is what I"m talking about. And as I said, I assume you must win with us, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed clear to me that you probably gain a major victory or something based on additional deaths. It's in character, and relates to your duke ability of causing a second lynch. You are right, you did not cause any ties, but it makes me a bit uncertain what might be going on behind your public reasoning. I think it's a valid thing for the village to worry about, and I think you'd have to agree that your voting record has not been great so far.

As I said, tomorrow I will take the time to go over the points, and give my own analysis, etc. I'm sorry I got in too late to really get into it tonight. After the blast I wasn't checking in as much as normal.

But my voting record is no worse than others. In fact, two of my votes are actually for someone who is alive and uncleared, so in many cases potentially better than some.

And considering where we are at in the game, the village has much more important things to worry about and distracting from that is not a good for the village.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I'm just saying you've been leading the charge to a fair extent, natural given that you're a vocal, excellent player - and cleared. But it hasn't worked, and I can see you're barking up the wrong tree today. I'm as fair a target as anyone, but I hope we find some others. This past day was mostly a one target day, and that was frustrating (especially not being able to pipe up).

And that's a fair point, but I have to keep pushing like I normally do despite some bad calls so far.

[Autumn]

I guess voting record was not the right term, sorry if that's causing confusion. I'm too tired to be doing this, I just didn't expect to see my name being thrown around when I came in. Just wanted to see if I lived.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Danny

And if you are a villager, I realize this has not been a good from me thus far and understand your frustration, but my votes haven't been any worse than anyone else and trying to discredit me is not going to help the village.

How can anyone discredit you at all? We know you're good. Mistakes in choices? Sure. That happens to everyone.

We'll get this thing going.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Danny

And that's a fair point, but I have to keep pushing like I normally do despite some bad calls so far.

Sure, I don't really expect you to play any different. I guess I'm mostly asking the rest of the crowd to think a little bit more for themselves. I find as the numbers dwindle, the village tends to get quieter and just go along with whatever's getting pushed.

And I'll be interested to see at the end, but I was fairly certain about the win condition thing. It's one of those things I think the rest of us have to keep in mind. The rules say both Nazis and conspirators can have their own win conditions.

[The Jackal]

Guys, I'll apologize for going after NTN, and fully understand if you want to lynch me. I have absolutely no role, I'm just a royal Nazi, but I honestly have no idea who the wolves are. They've played a great game.

[Abe Sargent]

Wow, what a sucky day. Me no talky and bad results today.

[The Jackal]

Granted he was the possible convert, but I definitely thought he was a wolf.

[The Jackal]

I'm still in drunk celebration of the Phillies win, I'll catch up on the last two pages of posts tomorrow morning and make an educated guess.

[The Jackal]

royal nazi? sure. loyal nazi is what i was going for.

[J23]

If I had my way, I'd see Jackal and PB/Autumn tie for the next lynch vote. I'm fine voting for any of those 3.

[PurdueBrad]

I know I'll probably regret what I ask for but I am wholly behind an Autumn-PB or Autumn-PB-KWhit runoff here. I am a vanilla Third Reicher but I think there has to be a wolf in that trio and like some of the analysis above said, I would guess Autumn first and then even a PB-KWhit runoff tomorrow.

vote Autumn

[Danny]

Do Hitler and Maurice know who each other are?

[Danny]

I'm wondering if Maurice should reveal, it would gives us one more cleared villager though it does limit the field for Hitler, so I am not sure.

[J23]

I would think Maurice should reveal if they're under pressure on a vote. I'm not sure it makes sense otherwise since they won't have any more info than anyone else.

[Abe Sargent]

Vote Autumn

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Danny

Final Day One Vote

KWhit 2 - Darth Vilus (80), PurdueBrad (105)
Lathum 1 - DaddyTorgo (96)
Darth Vilus 2 - Autumn (91), Telle (219)
Chief Rum 5 - ntndeacon (92), bulletsponge (110), GldenEagle (213), LoneStarGirl (221), Danny (223)
DaddyTorgo 7 - Lathum (102), J23 (106), hoopsguy (113), Abe Sargent (125), Scmidty (153), The Jackal (163), Chief Rum (230)
LoneStarGirl 1 - JAG (193)

No vote: KWhit

Final Vote Day 2:

Darth Vilus 8 - PurdueBad (403), Autumn (408), KWhit (436), ntndeacon (440), JAG (452), Chief Rum (467), Abe Sargent (476), J23 (539)
ntndeacon 1 - Lathum (432)
Chief Rum 6 - Darth Vilus (421), bulletsponge (425), Telle (438), Danny (447), The Jackal (479), Schmidty (481)

On day one and day two, CR was a prime candidate and could have been lynched very easily. However, he barely made it through both days.

Take a look at who voted for him on both of those days. On day one - all villagers. Not a single wolf. On day two, 4 villagers and 2 uncleared.

That seems mighty strange to me. What are the odds that we'd have all villagers on CR for day one if he was a good guy? Very slim, I'd say. The wolves would likely want to spread their votes out if they could and at least one of them would have likely put a vote on the #2 candidate. Unless they were trying to save him. Same thing for day 2 (although we do have 2 uncleared on him, so it's hard to tell exactly).

My initial thinking a couple of days ago was that CR was probably not a wolf, since he was a likely scan target by the seer. However, the last post Telle made in-game was this, last night:

Originally Posted by Telle

But we still don't know for sure if CR is a villager or a wolf, so that analysis is flawed.

I'm going to follow Chief Rum with the second candidate. I'm just really not liking this run on ntn.

vote The Jackal

Could it be possible that she was saying that she hadn't scanned him? I think so. If you are a seer, you try to leave little clues like that for situations just like this where you're killed before revealing. Unfortunately, she didn't leave us much to work with, but I'm feeling like CR needs scrutiny again.


Vote Chief Rum


Note, I think Autumn and PB are wolves also. It pretty telling that CR is pushing for The Jackal when most everyone else seems to think that Autumn and PB are better choices. And I think we should go after CR today, because it will tell us a lot about who else to look at next.

[J23]

Here's the day1 voting so you can see how CR ended up w/ all villagers on him (stolen from JAG's post way back).

D1 voting:

(32) Schmidty votes Jackal - Jackal 1
(49) Danny votes GE - Jackal 1 GE 1
(80) Darth votes KWhit - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 1
(86) Abe votes Lathum - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 1 Lathum 1
(87) Lathum votes Schmidty - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 1 Lathum 1 Schmidty 1
(89) JAG votes Darth - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 1 Lathum 1 Schmidty 1 Darth 1
(91) Autumn votes Darth - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 1 Lathum 1 Schmidty 1 Darth 2
(92) ntn votes Chief - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 1 Lathum 1 Schmidty 1 Darth 2 Chief 1
(96) DT votes Lathum - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 1 Lathum 2 Schmidty 1 Darth 2 Chief 1
(102) Lathum unvotes Schmidty, votes DT - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 1 Lathum 2 Darth 2 Chief 1 DT 1
(105) PB votes KWhit - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 2 Lathum 2 Darth 2 Chief 1 DT 1
(106) J23 votes DT - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 2 Lathum 2 Darth 2 Chief 1 DT 2
(108)LSG votes Autumn - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 2 Lathum 2 Darth 2 Chief 1 DT 2 Autumn 1
(110) bulletspong votes Chief - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 2 Lathum 2 Darth 2 Chief 2 DT 2 Autumn 1
(113) hoopsguy votes DT - Jackal 1 GE 1 KWhit 2 Lathum 2 Darth 2 Chief 2 DT 3 Autumn 1
(122) Danny unvotes GE - Jackal 1 KWhit 2 Lathum 2 Darth 2 Chief 2 DT 3 Autumn 1
(125) Abe unvotes Lathum, votes DT - Jackal 1 KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 2 Chief 2 DT 4 Autumn 1
(129) Chief votes Darth - Jackal 1 KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 3 Chief 2 DT 4 Autumn 1
(153) Schmidty unvotes Jackal, votes DT - KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 3 Chief 2 DT 5 Autumn 1
(163) Jackal votes DT - KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 3 Chief 2 DT 6 Autumn 1
(179) Danny votes LSG - KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 3 Chief 2 DT 6 Autumn 1 LSG 1
(188) Chief unvotes Darth, votes LSG - KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 2 Chief 2 DT 6 Autumn 1 LSG 2
(193) JAG unvotes Darth, votes LSG - KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 1 Chief 2 DT 6 Autumn 1 LSG 3
(213) GE votes Chief - KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 1 Chief 3 DT 6 Autumn 1 LSG 3
(219) Telle votes Darth - KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 2 Chief 3 DT 6 Autumn 1 LSG 3
(221) LSG unvotes Autumn, votes Chief - KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 2 Chief 4 DT 6 LSG 3
(223) Danny unvotes LSG, votes Chief - KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 2 Chief 5 DT 6 LSG 2
(230) Chief unvotes LSG, votes DT - KWhit 2 Lathum 1 Darth 2 Chief 5 DT 7 LSG 1

[Autumn]

Well, it's pretty disappointing to come in and see a run on me before I've even had a chance to get back into the action. I guess I should have spent some of htat off time yesterday looking through the voting, but my computer died and so instead I've been attempting to limp through my work day on my wife's computer.

Although KWhit thinks I"m a wolf too, I agree with his thoughts on Chief, which is why I was pushing him the other day. For a prominent "villager" to squeak through a bunch of votes like that is fishy, and when I tried to push him the next day I got *a lot* of people telling me it wasn't worth voting for him.

I can't really contest that I didn't vote for DT day one, obviously, but as far as I can tell that's the argument against me. It's unfortunate that piling onto a runaway vote on DT would have made me less of a target, but I stuck with Darth because I didn't think a runaway was helpful.

If someone has another argument against me, I'd be glad to field it. I got a lot of flak the other night for switching to Jackal instead of NTN or bullet. Both of those are now proven to be villagers. So instead of taking the chance to kill off one of them, the leading vote getters, I drew a lot of flak by keeping a third, unknown, candidate in the fray. That would seem a piss poor move from a wolf, as essentially I think that's why I'm getting pointed at now.

As the game goes on, the people who talk and do too much get all the fingers. I would guess it's much more likely that the wolves are sitting back and letting us run in circles, and exist among the players much more UTR than me. Why make a move that gets that much attention, when I could have just followed Danny's lead and had a villager lynched anyway? So my targets would be either CR, for his miraculous escapes or someone UTR. I will try to get my spreadsheet open on here to see if I can figure anything out.

[PurdueBrad]

KWhit, I like your approach to the CR issue, that there is no proof he's good. I guess there should be three, maybe four, candidates today IMHO:

Me
CR
Autumn
KWhit

My defense is small, I was at the successful meeting.

Strikes against me are my voting record, which is as awful as everyone else's and the fact that I was in Berlin when it blew up. And I've been a quiet player again this game.

I am a vanilla Third Reicher in this so I'm not a loss BUT we're at the point where two bad lynches will mean the end I think.

[Autumn]

I've only got a few minutes, so I'll throw stuff up that I'm looking at. Day 2:

Abe votes Kwhit 1 Kwhit
Abe unvotes Kwhit
Purdue votes Darth 1 Darth
Jackal votes ntn 1-1
Autumn votes Darth 2-1 Darth
darth votes chief 2-1-1 Darth
bullet votes Chief 2-2-1 Darth, Chief
Lathum votes NTN 2-2-2 Darth, Chief, NTN
Kwhit votes Darth 3-2-2 Darth, Chief, NTN
Telle votes Chief 3-3-2 Darth, Chief, NTN
ntn votes darth 4-3-2 Darth, Chief, NTN
Danny votes Chief 4-4-2 Darth, Chief, NTN
Jag votes darth 5-4-2 Darth, Chief, NTN
Chief votes darth 6-4-2 Darth, Chief, NTN
Abe votes Darth 7-4-2 Darth, Chief, NTN
Jackal unvotes ntn 7-4-1 Darth, Chief
Jackal votes Chief 7-5-1 Darth, Chief
Schmidty votes Chief 7-6-1 Darth, Chief
J23 votes Darth 8-6-1 Darth, Chief

Of note here are Darth, Bullet, Telle, Danny, Jackal, Schmidty vote Chief along the way, pushing him into contention. Meanwhile, Lathum, KWhit, NTN, JAG,Chief, Abe and J23 push either Darth or NTN ahead. Only two cleared folks out of the crowd keeping chief out of contention, while there are four cleared folks voting for Chief. Most notable votes there to me are Abe and J23 putting it out of reach, keeping Darth well ahead of chief, despite a number of people moving over to Chief.

[Autumn]

DAy 3

Purdue votes Kwhit 1 Kwhit
Danny votes Chief 1-1 Kwhit, Chief
Danny unvotes Chief 1 Kwhit
Danny votes Bullet 1-1 Kwhit, Bullet
J23 votes Jackal 1-1-1 Kwhit, Bullet, Jackal
Abe votes Telle 1-1-1-1 Kwhit, Bullet, Jackal, Telle
autumn votes Chief 1-1-1-1-1 Kwhit, Bullet, Jackal, Telle, Chief
Purdue unvotes Kwhit 1-1-1-1 Bullet, Jackal,Telle, Chief
JAG votes bullet 2-1-1-1 Bullet, Jackal, Telle, Chief
Kwhit votes ntn 2-1-1-1-1 Bullet, Jackal, Telle, Chief, NTN
Schmidty votes bullet 3-1-1-1-1 Bullet, Jackal, Telle, Chief, NTN
Jackal votes ntn 3-2-1-1-1 Bullet, NTN, Jackal, Telle, Chief
Autumn unvotes chief 3-2-1-1 Bullet, NTN, Jackal Telle
Autumn votes Telle 3-2-2-1 Bullet, NTN, Telle, Jackal
Chief votes Jackal 3-2-2-2 Bullet, NTN, Telle, Jackal
purdue votes telle 3-3-2-2 Bullet, Telle, NTN, Jackal
Telle votes bullet 4-3-2-2 Bullet, Telle, NTN, Jackal
Lathum votes ntn 4-3-3-2 Bullet, Telle, NTN, Jackal
bullet votes jackal 4-3-3-3 Bullet, Telle, NTN, Jackal
Purdue unvotes telle 4-3-3-2 Bullet, NTN, Jackal, Telle
Purdue votes bullet 5-3-3-2 Bullet, NTN, Jackal, Telle
JAG unvotes bullet 4-3-3-2 Bullet, NTN, Jackal, Telle
JAG votes NTN 4-4-3-2 Bullet, NTN, Jackal, Telle
NTN votes bullet 5-4-3-2 Bullet, NTN, Jackal, Telle
autumn unvotes telle 5-4-3-1 Bullet, NTN, Jackal, Telle
autumn votes jackal 5-4-4-1 Bullet, NTN, Jackal, Telle
lathum unvotes ntn 5-4-3-1 Bullet, Jackal, NTN, Telle
lathum votes bullet 6-4-3-1 Bullet, Jackal, NTN, Telle
abe unvotes telle 6-4-3 Bullet, Jackal, NTN
abe votes bullet 7-4-3 Bullet, Jackal, NTN

Here I see the possibility that Lathum and Abe were working at the end not to protect NTN,obviously, but to protect Jackal, who I had put into the mix.

If CR is a wolf, Jag, KWhit, Schmdity and Jackal all voted for other candidates after I added Chief into the voting early on, quickly making him a non-candidate (along with the fact that people were suggesting he was scanned).

I don't have history on day four since I wasn't in thread much. Next I'm going to glance at UTR folks and see what I see. From these two days history I see Abe possibly protecting Chief one day, and Jackal the next.

[Autumn]

Looking at post counts, PurdueBrad is far and away the fewest, with 24. Kwhit, Schmidty and J23 are pretty much clumped around 40. I would expect to find at least one if not two of the wolves in this quiet bunch. Given the job the village has been doing lynching, there's no real reason for wolves to stick their necks out. We all know that the more a player says the more likely someone will find something wolfish about them.

[Chief Rum]

Normally, as before, I am fine with me being targeted, because I am still just a vanilla Nazi. Nothing's changed there.

The problem here is we're no longer in a position where we can afford to throw away a lynch. A vote for me is a vote to lose to the conspirators, and at least 3-4 people--in fact, most of the people who are just now posting about me as a candidate--are prime candidates themselves for being conspirators.

So let's figure this out. The wolves need someone innocent to go after, because the window they're hiding in is getting much too small. They know if they get through today, most likely they win. So what do they do? They try to drum up the old CR debate, which the village should have resolved a while ago (BTW, if Telle didn't scan me, I have to wonder just what in the heck she was doing...).

So we reach today, and all of a sudden three people--KW, Autumn and Purdue Brad--are suddenly pushing to add me back into the mix? So if I am a wolf, and these guys are not, and Danny is cleared, and we suspect four wolves in this game, who exactly are the silent wolves helping me out? Certainly not The Jackal. I have been gunning for him for a while. Abe? Schmidty? These are guys who haven't even had much of a hint of suspision, but all of a sudden, they have to be my crew, and I'm obviously a wolf?

Anyone else what's going on here?

Follow the evidence. Danny obviously hit something here. The window is getting smaller for these guys. I was on the fence before. Now I am certain Danny's right on. Autumn is a wolf, and probably PB as well. With the way KWhit's come after me all game, I see now he has actually been intentionally misreading me, whereas before I thought he was just misguided and being obtuse.

VOTE AUTUMN

[PurdueBrad]

Based on the reads, I would go Autumn today, me vs. KWhit tomorrow (unless something better emerges) and then the next day, probably the survivor of me/KWhit vs. Lathum/Saldana (I don't believe he ever got cleared and he is the World's Greatest Wolf) and Abe.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Normally, as before, I am fine with me being targeted, because I am still just a vanilla Nazi. Nothing's changed there.

The problem here is we're no longer in a position where we can afford to throw away a lynch. A vote for me is a vote to lose to the conspirators, and at least 3-4 people--in fact, most of the people who are just now posting about me as a candidate--are prime candidates themselves for being conspirators.

So let's figure this out. The wolves need someone innocent to go after, because the window they're hiding in is getting much too small. They know if they get through today, most likely they win. So what do they do? They try to drum up the old CR debate, which the village should have resolved a while ago (BTW, if Telle didn't scan me, I have to wonder just what in the heck she was doing...).

So we reach today, and all of a sudden three people--KW, Autumn and Purdue Brad--are suddenly pushing to add me back into the mix? So if I am a wolf, and these guys are not, and Danny is cleared, and we suspect four wolves in this game, who exactly are the silent wolves helping me out? Certainly not The Jackal. I have been gunning for him for a while. Abe? Schmidty? These are guys who haven't even had much of a hint of suspision, but all of a sudden, they have to be my crew, and I'm obviously a wolf?

Anyone else what's going on here?

Follow the evidence. Danny obviously hit something here. The window is getting smaller for these guys. I was on the fence before. Now I am certain Danny's right on. Autumn is a wolf, and probably PB as well. With the way KWhit's come after me all game, I see now he has actually been intentionally misreading me, whereas before I thought he was just misguided and being obtuse.

VOTE AUTUMN

I don't see Autumn or PB as pushing for you to be lynched. I am doing that all by myself. I see them conceding that you might be a decent candidate to put into the mix only after my post. But it's not like they are voting for you.

I don't know anything more at this point than anyone else, unfortunately, so could of course be wrong. But you calling me obtuse is pretty shitty. You've already been condescending toward me once earlier. I don't really remember that as being your style. Maybe it's just because it's never been directed at me, so I didn't notice it.

[J23]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Most notable votes there to me are Abe and J23 putting it out of reach, keeping Darth well ahead of chief, despite a number of people moving over to Chief.

My vote, as I pointed out when I posted it, was to prevent a tie and a double lynch. I didn't like either candidate, as I posted earlier that day, and they both turned out to be villagers. I really have no idea why you think my vote that day was suspect if you've gone back and looked at how it progressed.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I don't see Autumn or PB as pushing for you to be lynched. I am doing that all by myself. I see them conceding that you might be a decent candidate to put into the mix only after my post. But it's not like they are voting for you.

I don't know anything more at this point than anyone else, unfortunately, so could of course be wrong. But you calling me obtuse is pretty shitty. You've already been condescending toward me once earlier. I don't really remember that as being your style. Maybe it's just because it's never been directed at me, so I didn't notice it.

Sorry, KWhit. If you don't like that I call it as I see it, then you really didn't notice before. When people misread what I write and continue to do so, even after I correct them, it starts to get on my nerves a bit. When you flat out ignore what I am saying and just go with your own interpretation of what I am saying, what choice do I have but to think you're being stubborn and obtuse? I tell you I am saying the sky is blue. You're telling me I am telling you the sky is green. Huh?

I know what I mean when I write. I understand you need to interpret that, and the Internet is an imperfect vehicle for communication. I don't have an issue with you seeing my thoughts as unclear. I'm not saying I'm the world's best writer or analyst. But when you flat out say I am saying something (such as making out you, Telle and PB as must be wolves from the analysis--which is just a compelte and total misread of my analysis) even though I am telling you that's not what I am saying, and you continue to say this, even after I have corrected you repeatedly, sorry, but that really chaps me.

So if you're reading condescension and annoyance and anger, for the first time this game, you're right. I am pissed at you and at the way you have continued to read my posts. And you deserve all that because you keep doing it even after I tell you you're reading it wrong.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by J23

My vote, as I pointed out when I posted it, was to prevent a tie and a double lynch. I didn't like either candidate, as I posted earlier that day, and they both turned out to be villagers. I really have no idea why you think my vote that day was suspect if you've gone back and looked at how it progressed.

I'm not saying there's no other explanation for it. I'm saying if we're looking for signs of wolves in the voting record, you guys putting a known villager ahead at the end of an unknown is one possible spot. Obviously it could very well be just what you said instead. This is just analysis.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Normally, as before, I am fine with me being targeted, because I am still just a vanilla Nazi. Nothing's changed there.

The problem here is we're no longer in a position where we can afford to throw away a lynch. A vote for me is a vote to lose to the conspirators, and at least 3-4 people--in fact, most of the people who are just now posting about me as a candidate--are prime candidates themselves for being conspirators.

So let's figure this out. The wolves need someone innocent to go after, because the window they're hiding in is getting much too small. They know if they get through today, most likely they win. So what do they do? They try to drum up the old CR debate, which the village should have resolved a while ago (BTW, if Telle didn't scan me, I have to wonder just what in the heck she was doing...).

So we reach today, and all of a sudden three people--KW, Autumn and Purdue Brad--are suddenly pushing to add me back into the mix? So if I am a wolf, and these guys are not, and Danny is cleared, and we suspect four wolves in this game, who exactly are the silent wolves helping me out? Certainly not The Jackal. I have been gunning for him for a while. Abe? Schmidty? These are guys who haven't even had much of a hint of suspision, but all of a sudden, they have to be my crew, and I'm obviously a wolf?

Anyone else what's going on here?

Follow the evidence. Danny obviously hit something here. The window is getting smaller for these guys. I was on the fence before. Now I am certain Danny's right on. Autumn is a wolf, and probably PB as well. With the way KWhit's come after me all game, I see now he has actually been intentionally misreading me, whereas before I thought he was just misguided and being obtuse.

VOTE AUTUMN

Your argument would make sense, Chief, if eerybody knew you were a villager. I don't see how there's any higher chance that I am a wolf than you. You have some things against you (escaping several lynches, basically). I have some things (not being on DT day one). I, knowing I"m not a wolf, can discount the argument against me. I can't discount the argument against you, and neither can anyone else in the game except possibly you.

It seems a bit silly to act like we're being outrageous to suggest people might want to vote for you. Should I suggest they vote for me? There are eight uncleared people in this game, to me, and you're one of them.

And as KWhit said, I didn't "gun for you", and I don't think you could get that out of what I said. I pointed out that you're still a candidate, as are a whole list of other people I looked at. Your defensiveness is the main thing that keeps you in the running, to my mind. When you were on the block the other day you suddenly burst out of the blocks with analysis, and now that a couple people say, "yeah, chief could be a wolf" you're suggesting it's somehow treasonous to even listen to that. You're a "prime candidate" too, that's all.

[J23]

vote The Jackal

I'm here for the third day in a row. The seer voted him yesterday before getting NK'd. I don't see how we can afford to not look at him.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Sorry, KWhit. If you don't like that I call it as I see it, then you really didn't notice before. When people misread what I write and continue to do so, even after I correct them, it starts to get on my nerves a bit. When you flat out ignore what I am saying and just go with your own interpretation of what I am saying, what choice do I have but to think you're being stubborn and obtuse? I tell you I am saying the sky is blue. You're telling me I am telling you the sky is green. Huh?

I know what I mean when I write. I understand you need to interpret that, and the Internet is an imperfect vehicle for communication. I don't have an issue with you seeing my thoughts as unclear. I'm not saying I'm the world's best writer or analyst. But when you flat out say I am saying something (such as making out you, Telle and PB as must be wolves from the analysis--which is just a compelte and total misread of my analysis) even though I am telling you that's not what I am saying, and you continue to say this, even after I have corrected you repeatedly, sorry, but that really chaps me.

So if you're reading condescension and annoyance and anger, for the first time this game, you're right. I am pissed at you and at the way you have continued to read my posts. And you deserve all that because you keep doing it even after I tell you you're reading it wrong.

You're pissed at me because I don't take at face value a post you made in a ww game?

Huh? And you're calling me obtuse because of it?

How you can see reading comprehension issues in my posts is asinine. The fact of the matter is that YOU COULD BE LYING.

To my point of view, you posted a lot of stuff about how it is likely that only 1 traitor was at the first meeting, but then do analysis on who the best candidates to vote for are from that meeting. And you sum up with a list that has 3 people on it who were at the meeting, which looked a hell of a lot like a suggestion on where to focus the vote. Which directly led to a vote on me.

Now, you say that you didn't mean it that way. I'm saying that I don't necessarily believe you.

I can comprehend what you're saying. I can even comprehend how condescending you're being while you say it. That doesn't mean that I have to believe it.

People do tend to lie in these games. Just because I don't take your posts at face value doesn't mean I'm stupid.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Your argument would make sense, Chief, if eerybody knew you were a villager. I don't see how there's any higher chance that I am a wolf than you. You have some things against you (escaping several lynches, basically). I have some things (not being on DT day one). I, knowing I"m not a wolf, can discount the argument against me. I can't discount the argument against you, and neither can anyone else in the game except possibly you.

It seems a bit silly to act like we're being outrageous to suggest people might want to vote for you. Should I suggest they vote for me? There are eight uncleared people in this game, to me, and you're one of them.

And as KWhit said, I didn't "gun for you", and I don't think you could get that out of what I said. I pointed out that you're still a candidate, as are a whole list of other people I looked at. Your defensiveness is the main thing that keeps you in the running, to my mind. When you were on the block the other day you suddenly burst out of the blocks with analysis, and now that a couple people say, "yeah, chief could be a wolf" you're suggesting it's somehow treasonous to even listen to that. You're a "prime candidate" too, that's all.

I wouldn't say I think you guys are being "outrageous". It's a sensible move as a wolf to get the heat off of them and onto non-wolves, especially in a virtual end game situation. As you say, I am not cleared, so it makes sense to make me a target. Others could follow you there, and I can't dispute it much, because I know I am not cleared. Like as you claim for yourself, I know I am not a wolf, so it's not like I am going to sit idly by and allow people to put a run on me in an end game situation. To me, I know that of today ends with me on the rope, the village almost certainly loses. If I were you, I would recognize that that urgency has to come through in my posts. Lynch me, we lose. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

My defensiveness is a combination of that urgency combined with being under attack from KWhit, a whole separate issue which I don't think I need to belabor any more than I did in my previous post. You're right, though, that I doubt that defensiveness works in my favor.

BTW, it's funny how much weight you put in my "miraculaous escapes", as if I have anything to do with other's votes. Heck, one of those escapes was built almost completely in the last 10 minutes before a vote deadline--all by villager. Not exactly sure what wolves have to do with that.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by KWhit

You're pissed at me because I don't take at face value a post you made in a ww game?

Huh? And you're calling me obtuse because of it?

How you can see reading comprehension issues in my posts is asinine. The fact of the matter is that YOU COULD BE LYING.

To my point of view, you posted a lot of stuff about how it is likely that only 1 traitor was at the first meeting, but then do analysis on who the best candidates to vote for are from that meeting. And you sum up with a list that has 3 people on it who were at the meeting, which looked a hell of a lot like a suggestion on where to focus the vote. Which directly led to a vote on me.

Now, you say that you didn't mean it that way. I'm saying that I don't necessarily believe you.

I can comprehend what you're saying. I can even comprehend how condescending you're being while you say it. That doesn't mean that I have to believe it.

People do tend to lie in these games. Just because I don't take your posts at face value doesn't mean I'm stupid.

I'm not going to waste any more time discussing your inability to read my posts. We have better things to focus on.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm not going to waste any more time discussing your inability to read my posts. We have better things to focus on.

Can you be any more of a dick?

I'm guessing no.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Can you be any more of a dick?

I'm guessing no.

Got it. Thanks for reminding me to take a break after this, and never play one in which you're in again.

[Autumn]

Right, but the same thing goes for you. I know I'm not a wolf, and I recognize we're nearing end game. You are coming out defensive, but I'm the one with what four votes on me by noon? I know w'ere close to end game, because I know I'm the leading vote getter, and unless someone makes a good counter suggestion we're losing two villagers today (including the night kill).

There are plenty of other "innocent" people the wolves can target, so it's not like "the CR debate" is the only possible way to mislead the village. How about everyone jumping on Danny's bandwagon and voting me? It worked so well for Bulletsponge and NTN, why not do it again? lynch me, when I come up clean, everyone shrugs, since they can say they followed the one cleared guy, and he was so sure! A runaway on me leaves us the same exact place we were yesterday with a runaway on NTN. The fact is no one has truly pushed for another target, and that should worry you guys.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Got it. Thanks for reminding me to take a break after this, and never play one in which you're in again.

Cool. By the way, I'm not the one being a jerk here. And I'm still not sure why you think I am.

[EagleFan]

Meeting today to discuss a plan for a counter attack against the Allies in Normandy.

Those who will attend:
Danny
J23
Lathum/saldana
KWhit

Success in the meeting carries great rewards. Failure carries an equally dire consequence.

Same as before in that Hitler will be at the meeting but may or may not be included in the list.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Cool. By the way, I'm not the one being a jerk here. And I'm still not sure why you think I am.

Right, you're Mother Teresa.

I can accept that I am responding in anger, and can rightly be called out for that. I'm not sure why you think you're the victim, you done nothing wrong. Hell, you just called me a dick.

How on Earth can you say you're not being a jerk. You're being one every bit as much as I am.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Right, but the same thing goes for you. I know I'm not a wolf, and I recognize we're nearing end game. You are coming out defensive, but I'm the one with what four votes on me by noon? I know w'ere close to end game, because I know I'm the leading vote getter, and unless someone makes a good counter suggestion we're losing two villagers today (including the night kill).

There are plenty of other "innocent" people the wolves can target, so it's not like "the CR debate" is the only possible way to mislead the village. How about everyone jumping on Danny's bandwagon and voting me? It worked so well for Bulletsponge and NTN, why not do it again? lynch me, when I come up clean, everyone shrugs, since they can say they followed the one cleared guy, and he was so sure! A runaway on me leaves us the same exact place we were yesterday with a runaway on NTN. The fact is no one has truly pushed for another target, and that should worry you guys.

I'm coming out defensive because I had about 4-5 posts in a row, more or less out of the blue, from KWhit, PB and you basically suggesting a wolf. Combine that with my spat with KWhit and the fact I know my lynch ends the game, you would be defensive, too, in my shoes.

You have four votes for rational reasons. It's standard WW practice to split your votes when you're a wolf team. You and PB are the only two uncleared players remaining who did not vote for DT. It's a legitimate line of pursuit to consider one or both of you as wolves. That is why you have four votes right now.

[EagleFan]

As of post 1044:

Autumn 4 - Danny (979), PurdueBrad (1016), Abe Sargent (1020), Chief Rum (1028)
Chief Rum 1 - KWhit (1021)
The Jackal 1 - J23 (1035)

Yet to vote: Lathum/saldana, The Jackal, Schmidty, Autumn

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Right, you're Mother Teresa.

I can accept that I am responding in anger, and can rightly be called out for that. I'm not sure why you think you're the victim, you done nothing wrong. Hell, you just called me a dick.

How on Earth can you say you're not being a jerk. You're being one every bit as much as I am.

No, I don't think so. After being talked down to, called obtuse, repeatedly told that I don't know how to read, I think I'm being quite civil actually.

I'm more incredulous at your anger and condescension than anything. It's bizarre that you're all pissed off at me because I think it's possible that you might be lying in a werewolf game. It would be funny if you weren't being so insulting about it.

Seriously. It's WW. "That's not what I meant" is typically not an ironclad defense when someone is questioned about something they said.

You can defend yourself as strongly as you want, but why the hell do you have to be so insulting about it?

[EagleFan]

Can we reel things back in a bit here? We don't need a pissing match to lead to someone posting something that goes over the line.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm coming out defensive because I had about 4-5 posts in a row, more or less out of the blue, from KWhit, PB and you basically suggesting a wolf. Combine that with my spat with KWhit and the fact I know my lynch ends the game, you would be defensive, too, in my shoes.

You have four votes for rational reasons. It's standard WW practice to split your votes when you're a wolf team. You and PB are the only two uncleared players remaining who did not vote for DT. It's a legitimate line of pursuit to consider one or both of you as wolves. That is why you have four votes right now.

Well, I wouldn't call it out of the blue. The only reason you weren't put up on the block earlier was because people assumed you would be scanned. Now that the seer is dead, people are returning to you. That seems perfectly normal to me.

As for the other, all I can say is I've seen plenty of games, even in my more limited time, where that has not been the case. I think it might have been The Office game somewhat recently where we pursued that route and lynched *a lot* of villagers, eventually discovering that on multiple days all the wolves had been on the same person, and in several cases that person was a wolf. It's one way you might find a wolf, yes, or yet another way to find a villager. I think the wolves are just as aware of the "spread the vote" technique as we are. If they can milk it for one or two more easy villager lynches, they will. When I'm gone, I guess youll just go after PB. Perhaps he's the actual wolf there, but if not we'll have lost the game, if it's not lost tonight.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Can we reel things back in a bit here? We don't need a pissing match to lead to someone posting something that goes over the line.

Bah. You're no fun.

But since we don't have a separate mod in this forum now, can we post boobie pics instead?