Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I haven't seen this match, but I have seen them. It's still small but we're starting to develop quite a little collection of ROH, FIP, and PWG dvd's around here

PWG is my personal favorite. If I had the means I'd be there for the Battle of Los Angeles which is so fucking stacked it's not even funny.

[DeToxRox]

Dola

That PPV is solid but El Generico & Kevin Steen did the best things on the show (My PWG bias) Just wait for them.

[DeToxRox]

Former ECW Tag Team Champion John Kronus has been found dead in his home in New Hampshire today.

[DeToxRox]

A list of upcoming DVD's the WWE is releasing .. I am bolding the ones I'll for sure check out ..

The Best of Raw: 15th Anniversary Edition (match compilation)
The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin (match compilation)
Andre The Giant (biography plus matches)
Batista Unleashed (match compilation)
The British Bulldog (biography plus matches)
The Rock: The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment (biography plus matches)
Complete Hell (Hell in a Cell match compilation)
SummerSlam: The Complete Anthology (20 Disc Box Set)
Triple H (career biography plus match compilation)
The Life and Times of Mr. Perfect (biography plus matches)
Macho Madness: The Randy Savage Story (biography plus matches)
Edge: The Rated R Superstar (match compilation)
"Superfly:" The Jimmy Snuka Story (biography plus matches)
The Evolution of The Hardys (biography plus matches)
Mayhem Outside the Ring (Compilation of the best backstage moments in history)
Best of Starrcade (Multi-disc match compilation of WCW's signature event)
Owen Hart (biography plus matches)
The Ricky Steamboat Story (biography plus matches)
Sting (biography plus matches)
Shane McMahon (match compilation)

[Calis]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It really kind of galls me to say this, considering my accent, but there aren't any better wrestling crowds in the US than the ones in the northeast. So say I after watching just a few minutes of the first ROH PPV.

They just get into more than I see anywhere else. Or at least they get into it in a way that's more in line with how I watch wrestling. They don't give a damn who you are if you can get it done in the ring.

Yeah, the atmosphere in RoH is just amazing. I haven't really watched wrestling at all the past 3-4 years but recently really got into RoH. Amazing stuff. I think the point I realized how much impact the crowd had was when I watched the Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi match. I'll probably be slandered for saying this, but the match itself didn't impress me much. I guess that's just not my style of wrestling, I know it's a 5 star match and everyone raves but it seems to boild down to a contest of who could give the stiffer shots to the other one. I guess it would mean more if I had any knowledge of Kobashi previously as well. The crowd made it fantastic though, was one of the most electric crowds I'd seen at any event. Would've loved to have been there.

I'll have to check out some PWG at some point.

Really excited to see the Danielson and Nigel match mentioned earlier, two of my favorites.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Calis

Yeah, the atmosphere in RoH is just amazing. I haven't really watched wrestling at all the past 3-4 years but recently really got into RoH. Amazing stuff. I think the point I realized how much impact the crowd had was when I watched the Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi match. I'll probably be slandered for saying this, but the match itself didn't impress me much. I guess that's just not my style of wrestling, I know it's a 5 star match and everyone raves but it seems to boild down to a contest of who could give the stiffer shots to the other one. I guess it would mean more if I had any knowledge of Kobashi previously as well. The crowd made it fantastic though, was one of the most electric crowds I'd seen at any event. Would've loved to have been there.

I'll have to check out some PWG at some point.

Really excited to see the Danielson and Nigel match mentioned earlier, two of my favorites.

My favorite ROH match is CM Punk/Ace Steel vs Dan Maff/BJ Whitmer. You can find it on the net in some places. Definetly an old ECW blood bath.

PWG is like ROH with sense of humor. Go to YT and type in PWG. Lots of videos there. It's awesome.

[DeToxRox]

Dola

Heres a great video of one of PWG's best feuds ever. Kevin Steen vs Super Dragon, this was the blow off match.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mP7LrUM7mMM

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm almost disturbed by how commonplace it's become for him, but damn I think Abyss may be the most willing bleeder since Dusty Rhodes.

And I guess there's also some perverse credit due to Sting for being willing to take the broken glass spot at this stage of his career.

On the other hand, why Roode is being shoved down our throats escapes me (okay, I mean I know it's backstage politics & such) but still ...

[SnDvls]

I'll be going to the ECW/Smackdown tapings here in Phoenix on Tuesday so once I get home I'll give a report on it for ya.

[JonInMiddleGA]

We're debating whether to try the Impact tapings in Orlando Monday night.

Assuming Delta cooperates, we should be in town in plenty of time but the recent reports of serious lines (several hours) and then no one in the Hard Rock line (i.e. the non-visiting-Universal) even getting into the building after waiting have us doubting it's worth the hassle.

[molson]

Never thought this would actually happen:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2951586

"McMahon asked by Congressional committee to hand over records"

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'd give Congress a wider berth on this if they went after musicians, actors, and other entertainers as well.

And before anybody asks, one of the key distinctions I draw between this versus something like baseball/football/etc. is that there isn't a multi-billion dollar legal gambling industry based on wrestling, singing, acting and the legitimacy of the competitions.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Looks like it's two PPV's in a short period of time for me & Will.

http://www.tnawrestlingnews.com/head...87511052.shtml
Report by TNAWrestlingNews.com Staff on 07/26/2007 at 10:45 PM

The following was issued on TNAwrestling.com:

TNA’S BOUND FOR GLORY – COMING TO ATLANTA ON OCTOBER 14
By Bill Banks

As first reported by our TNA Mobile service, Total Nonstop Action Wrestling is happy to announce that our biggest Pay-Per-View event of the year - October’s “Bound For Glory” – is coming to Atlanta, Georgia, on Sunday, October 14, 2007!

The “Bound For Glory” spectacular will take place at the Gwinnett Civic Center arena – TNA will provide complete information on tickets in the coming weeks.

A TNA “InterAction” Fanfest is also being planned for “Bound For Glory” weekend in Atlanta.

The “Bound For Glory” spectacular will be a homecoming for many TNA stars, including Kurt Angle - who won his Olympic gold medal at the Atlanta Olympics in 1996. In addition, TNA stars such as AJ Styles, Raven, Rick Steiner and “Primetime” Elix Skipper currently reside near Atlanta.

Check back to TNAwrestling.com in the coming weeks for more information on “Bound For Glory” coming to Atlanta on Sunday, October 14!

[Jas_lov]

Adam "Pacman" Jones has either signed or is expected to sign a short-term deal with TNA according to Hope Hines of the WTVF, Ch. 5, news in Nashville.

Hines said the signing was supposed to be kept secret until Jeff Jarrett returned on Tuesday from an international trip.

We have independently confirmed that this story is correct.

Jones was suspended by the NFL for his link to a Las Vegas shooting at a strip club over the NBA All-Star weekend that left former 1980s AWA pro wrestler Tom Urbanski, who was managing the club, paralyzed from the waist down.

The negotiations with Jones are obviously an attempt for TNA to get mainstream publicity, even if the publicity won't be good, for the company. The timing of it, with pro wrestling's public image at an all-time low, will only reinforce the current reputation.

http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/....asp?aID=20315

[saldana]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd give Congress a wider berth on this if they went after musicians, actors, and other entertainers as well.

And before anybody asks, one of the key distinctions I draw between this versus something like baseball/football/etc. is that there isn't a multi-billion dollar legal gambling industry based on wrestling, singing, acting and the legitimacy of the competitions.

somebody write this down...i agree with jon ...how many musicians and movie stars have overdosed over the years, and there is no testing policy in movies, unless it is written into their individual contracts.

how many times have we watched lindsay lohan get arrested, but she keeps getting movie deals...this is an entertainment industry, not a sport. its not a true athletic competition, so what difference does it make if they are using a performance enhancing drug in terms of making their shows better.

if congress wants to intervene, thats fine, if they are doing it under the premise of protecting the health and welfare of the wrestlers, but they dont say that anywhere in that article.

[SirFozzie]

Ok.. is the RAW roster so depleted they had to run Booker/Lawler, Orton/Slaughter, and a 15 minute Crime Time squash/skit?

[molson]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Ok.. is the RAW roster so depleted they had to run Booker/Lawler, Orton/Slaughter, and a 15 minute Crime Time squash/skit?

Strangest show I can remember in a while.

[Joe]

TNA is bringing in Matt Morgan and Andrew Martin. Maybe they're reconsidering Pacman.

[DeToxRox]

A reason Raw was so odd last night is because Lashley has a torn muscle and will be going under the knife and Jeff Hardy had some unforseen circumstance come up and couldnt make the show.

[DeToxRox]

Jeff Hardy was apparently sent home from Raw according to Meltzer. Dave Scherer reported today he'd probably be gone for a while, if not forever and that seems to be confirmed with the latest reports.

[SnDvls]

Well it was an interesting two shows that is for sure.

Dark match was Chavo Guerrero vs and I kid you not on this The Unknown Wrestler from parts unknown weight unknown ( he had on a Mankind type mask with the letters RR on the back of his ring jacket, pretty big buff dude) anyhow The Unknown Wrestler got the win...WTF?!?!?!?

ECW thoughts...The Miz really sucks and missed quite a few spots, this guy is just plain bad. Burke is still green although I love him on the mic...he's kinda picked up the Mr. Perfect pre-match act with the towel ect. he almost lost himself on his one cornor move and nearly fell over the top on his own.
Not a great show...no one cares about Extreme Exposee except for the sexy outfits...Morrison and the Miz get no heat at all and no one cares about them.
CM Punk is so over it's hard to see him not winning the ECW title soon.

Smackdown was okay...I won't spoil it for anyone, but if you want/need to know shoot me a PM and I'll fill you in.

[molson]

RAW completely bombs to a 2.5 Rating.

Who does Vince blame this on?

[rkmsuf]

The Iron Sheik is on Stern tomorrow.


"Fuck Randy Savage!!!!!"

[molson]

I wonder if a boozed up Sheik ranting for two hours on RAW could do better than a 2.5?

[rkmsuf]

"Fuck Brian Blair! I'll make him humble by suplexing him, putting him in camel clutch, breaking his back and fucking his ass!!!!"

[Maple Leafs]

So if Hardy is done, and Lashley is on the shelf for the rest of the year... who's left? Is there anyone left to put in a main event for the next nine months until they inevitably job Cena out to HHH at Mania?

[Flasch186]

Booker T goes to Main Event
Kennedy goes to Main Event
Cena, of course
Randy Orton

and....

Stone Cold Steve Austin

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

So if Hardy is done, and Lashley is on the shelf for the rest of the year... who's left? Is there anyone left to put in a main event for the next nine months until they inevitably job Cena out to HHH at Mania?

Jeff Hardy just has a neck injury when he slipped off the turnbuckle and has been given time off to heal. I'm not sure when he'll be back though. They put all those main eventers that Flasch mentioned on Raw for this reason, plus HHH is coming back at or a little before Summerslam so there's another one. Vince may need to put himself back in the mix though if ratings continue at this rate.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

So if Hardy is done, and Lashley is on the shelf for the rest of the year... who's left? Is there anyone left to put in a main event for the next nine months until they inevitably job Cena out to HHH at Mania?

Rey Mistero will be back at SummerSlam, but for Smackdown so it might help some.

[Flasch186]

I only foresee 1-2 more years of the brand split. thank god.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Jeff Hardy just has a neck injury when he slipped off the turnbuckle and has been given time off to heal. I'm not sure when he'll be back though. They put all those main eventers that Flasch mentioned on Raw for this reason, plus HHH is coming back at or a little before Summerslam so there's another one. Vince may need to put himself back in the mix though if ratings continue at this rate.

Jeff is done for 30 days minimum. WWE is livid at him for not acting maturely and have taken him off TV. It's been reported now by Scherer and Meltzer.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Jeff Hardy just has a neck injury when he slipped off the turnbuckle and has been given time off to heal. I'm not sure when he'll be back though. They put all those main eventers that Flasch mentioned on Raw for this reason, plus HHH is coming back at or a little before Summerslam so there's another one. Vince may need to put himself back in the mix though if ratings continue at this rate.

The Hardy thing is a big mystery. His own website is claiming "time off to heal", while PWInsider insists he's been suspended and may never come back. So who knows.

I don't think lack of talent is the real problem for the WWE. I think there's a ton of talent out there - a product of more guys getting into wrestling during the 90s boom years, and the fact that there's only one big show in town.

Mysterio/Taker/Edge/HHH will all be back in the next 4-6 months at least (and much sooner for Mysterio and HHH). There's a number of guys who have been built up fairly well to the point where the the WWE can use them in the main event with a straight face: Kennedy, Orton, Umaga, Khali, Booker, both Hardys, even arguably Carlito and Finlay. I credit the brand split for that - it's given more guys a chance to be in a top angle.

The WWE's biggest problem right now isn't lack of talent, IMO, it's a lack of imagination in the product. I actually thought Monday's RAW had a somewhat fresh feel to it, but generally, the show has had the same look/format for close to a decade now. I still enjoy it more than most (and more than TNA), but it's more out of habit that I check it out, as opposed to looking forward to it like I used to.

[Flasch186]

that's like saying that the "new" main eventers get to be so, on a show, that is 1/3 as "good" as the main eventer's used to. Great. When it was RAW the main event meant something, now the ECW main event is usually somewhere on the middle of THAT card, and the smackdown main event would be equal to RAW's, these days. It has never been this watered down so the fact that you mention Finlay as a possibility proves my point.

[bulletsponge]

The WWE's biggest problem right now isn't lack of talent, IMO, it's a lack of imagination in the product. I actually thought Monday's RAW had a somewhat fresh feel to it, but generally, the show has had the same look/format for close to a decade now. I still enjoy it more than most (and more than TNA), but it's more out of habit that I check it out, as opposed to looking forward to it like I used to.

100%

[molson]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

that's like saying that the "new" main eventers get to be so, on a show, that is 1/3 as "good" as the main eventer's used to. Great. When it was RAW the main event meant something, now the ECW main event is usually somewhere on the middle of THAT card, and the smackdown main event would be equal to RAW's, these days. It has never been this watered down so the fact that you mention Finlay as a possibility proves my point.

That's the downside, but pre-brand split, you had the same show twice a week, but it didn't necessary feel twice as important.

The DX angle this year was the time I was most greatfull for the split, and the fact that I didn't have to sit through 30 minutes of skits right out of 1997 twice a week.

For years prior to the split, the big knock on the WWE was their failure to build new stars. (As if it's easy to just put HHH and Taker in the midcard to give unproven guys a chance). The brand split has delivered new stars (and allowed guys like Benoit and Guerrero to get their big breaks). It's also kept certain guys apart from each other to maintain fresh matchups - this is especially important since there's no TV-tested guys from WCW to bring in.

The only thing I would change is to distinguish the brands even further. RAW would be sports-entertainment based, Smackdown would have the cruiserweights and be more wrestling-based, and ECW would be the indy-style niche that there might be market for (i.e. raid ROH).

[RawIsDan]

Originally Posted by molson

The WWE's biggest problem right now isn't lack of talent, IMO, it's a lack of imagination in the product. I actually thought Monday's RAW had a somewhat fresh feel to it, but generally, the show has had the same look/format for close to a decade now. I still enjoy it more than most (and more than TNA), but it's more out of habit that I check it out, as opposed to looking forward to it like I used to.

Same here, and half the time I don't watch the whole show.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by molson

The only thing I would change is to distinguish the brands even further. RAW would be sports-entertainment based, Smackdown would have the cruiserweights and be more wrestling-based, and ECW would be the indy-style niche that there might be market for (i.e. raid ROH).

This is exactly what they should have done. And hire completely different writing teams for each brand. Then you'd actually have sone products that were... you know... different.

It's so ridiculous to hear the WWE talk about "brands" as if that means anything to the fans. The shows are exactly the same product (except for the fact that Raw has clearly been the "A' show) and yet they expect the fans to react as if it's WWE vs WCW. My favorite shows are the ones where they get everyone together and do a big pull apart brawl, where everyone is wearing a color coded t-shirt so you know what side they're on.

[Flasch186]

AFAIC, they should get everyone back together and give people 3-4 month runs and then time off. They can rotate them but being able to have 2 shows / week running a storyline (hopefully a good one) and then move ECW to a late night slot and do exactly as you two have said having it be the "Extreme" brand would be best. As it is now, it is watered down 3 nights a wk.

[DeToxRox]

Project 161 .. an angle ROH is running or so people think. It's being streated like it's a real threat but no one honestly knows.

http://www.project161.com/

There is their site with references to the Death Before Dishonor shows this weekend and this is the blog they post ..

http://projectonesixone.blogspot.com/

[DeToxRox]

And thanks to 411wrestling here is a detailed run down on the events of Project 161 so far

Let's talk controversy. Let's talk about something that is getting the attention of the internet ROH scene. Project 161. It might mean something to you right now or you may have no clue of what in God's green Earth I am talking about. Well, quite simply, this may turn out to be one of the biggest deals in Ring of Honor history. IF. I'm going to use that word a lot in this report. There are a ton of conditionals to what has happened, and the biggest one is IF Project 161 is real.

IF it's not real, if it is a hoax, we'll soon find out. Followers of ROH will have to wait six long and excruciating weeks to do so, but by September 15th 2007, we will find out simply by following the results of the third ROH Pay Per View taping in Chicago Illinois.

I want to briefly mention that I will state my own personal opinion about this below, but right now my intent is simply a journalistic documentation about the rather strange events of the last week regarding this subject.

Enough of the clandestine conversation—time to get to the facts. To quote Kevin Bacon from A Few Good Men, "And the facts are this:"

On the July 27th and 28th 2007 Race to the Top Tournament shows in Long Island and Edison, flyers were placed on some but not all chairs in the venue. It had a website listed from abusedsociety.comand a catchphrase:

Nothing Saves
A WORLD Without HONOR Will
Suffer

Well, it isn't exactly Haiku but the message was clear enough. Something about the end of Honor…the end of Ring of Honor perhaps? Anyway, the web URL was also printed in the bathrooms of the venues for the shows. People who went to the website saw disturbing words and images basically of a grim and apocalyptic nature. This included what would be revealed to be a photo shopped picture of Chicago and a Statue of Liberty with bleeding eyes, mysteriously similar to one of the more well known iconic images of ROH in 2006—Jimmy Jacobs' bleeding from his eyes after getting jabbed in the eye with a railroad spike at the hands of BJ Whitmer.

As to what the name "Project 161" could mean, 161 could refer to the 161st show, which so happens to be the 3rd PPV taping in Chicago on Sept. 15th. Again this connects to the Chicago references on the abused society webpage. The third PPV would be a terrific moment to unleash a new stable made up of wrestlers who were not treated well by the ROH crowd. IF.

The first theory about Project 161 was that this could be the start of a new angle for Adam Pearce, Shane Hagadorn, BJ Whitmer and possibly Jimmy Rave or Jimmy Jacobs to form a new stable of "abused" wrestlers out to attack ROH and destroy it from within. IF.

Many fans have already seen Adam Pearce's promo on the Respect Is Earned Pay Per View and noticed a new character direction for him. Pearce had become more dark (not in complexion but rather in his thought process) and seemed to take a more Svengali like approach to his character where he would reach out to the disaffected wrestlers. He was last seen on that show consoling BJ Whitmer, who had lost yet another match in what was becoming a very long slump.

While everyone is still debating what this whole deal is about, the story becomes more elaborate. The ROH board had opened upon registration and quickly closed it in a number of days. The board infrequently but occasionally opens up registration to allow new members to jump aboard and discuss topics. Soon after, the board was bombarded with spam from posters on two consecutive days, one by the handle "TheWorldsParasite", the other "Honor161". They posted a ton of cryptic messages and basically jammed up the boards for a period of time until these threads were deleted.

So what the heck was going on here? A web blog entitled simply Project 161 began to document the information about the Abused Society website. Some fans speculated that this was actually something called an "ARG" or "Alternate Reality Game". These have become an increasingly popular phenomenon of using secret websites and special "Easter Eggs" to spread "viral advertising" about a product. The most successful of these ARGs included Halo 2's ilikebees.com campaign, the Lost website which runs in conjunction with the TV storyline and Nine Inch Nails' "Year Zero" project. Year Zero was basically an offshoot of Trent Reznor's latest album release of the same name, but it is actually an "alternate reality" that borrows from several apocalyptic literary sources to tell the tale of a world corrupted by the U.S. government and the restriction of freedoms. People who follow the story online have discovered hidden messages within songs, CD booklets, concert T-shirts and online websites. The story of Year Zero continues to unfold even now and its one that seems incredibly intricate and detailed. Ironically a feature on ARGs was shown on G4's "Attack of the Show" program during the height of all of this week's Project 161 online action.

The Project 161 story seems to follow the pattern of an ARG, although on a more simplistic level (which in and of itself is not a bad thing given wrestling storylines are better when they are simple and clear). The plot is slowly developed over days and weeks online and details that continue the "conspiratorial" like theory of what is P161 continue to appear. Unfortunately, IF this was the plan by the ROH team, overzealous ROH fans may have changed the story (or really played into it and improvised a new strain of the story) by starting the blog with hints and speculation. The blogger may also be in on it, since the site went up at the same time as things began to heat up, thus fueling speculation and spreading analysis and rumors. Although to be fair the person who ran the blog (which has since been taken down) and other posters claim they had nothing to do with the Project (see Skip Niklas' post on the 411 forums).

It was their actions in performing a Who is? Query on the abusedsociety website (which gives name and contact information of who owns the domain name) that led to the connection of the site belonging to a friend of Gabe's. A picture of Gabe and his wife was put on the Project 161 Blog and this led to a distorted picture of Gabe and his wife being placed on the abused society website with the message "We Told You No One Is Safe."

Needless to say Gabe Sapolsky was not happy. He has been deleting these and all other threads mentioning the Project. Gabe has claimed this is not an angle and he is contacting the police. Here is his statement from the ROH boards in full, which has since been removed from the website:

Ok, all this crap ends now. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm in a bad mood because I am. I am trying my best to keep my composure. I just had a long day/night of production on the Japan DVDs. I sign on here, I'm actually feeling pretty good about things because I just watched a lot of great wrestling from our Japan shows. So what do I find:

1) A private email I send to someone requesting that photos and information about my family be taken off a website is now made public. This is my family, not an angle. Understand that. When I send you an email it is private. When I make a request about my family it is real. Lets get that straight right now.

2) The clowns who are attempting to f*** with my life and ROH, which is my life, spam this board again after it takes me two hours the other night to clean it up. Not only that, but other people decide to jump in. I am about to start banning people like crazy so I suggest everyone read the rules and stick to them quickly. My patience is running out. Again, I am trying to keep my composure here, but I have had enough. I now have to go clean up the board again after a long day of production. I suggest if you are in doubt about something you posted that you delete it to yourself. I will ban anyone involved with any posts that are in doubt of breaking any rules. This is a warning. If this doesn't apply to you and you are a productive member of this board I apologize and please ignore this rant.

3) Now we have more people than ever checking this board and it is a disgrace to the company. I want everyone to know that police have been alerted and I will do whatever I can to stop these websites and harrassment both to me personally and my wife. This is your warning. Stop it now.

That is all for now. I'm not playing a sick game here. It is over and I need to go back to doing what deserves my attention and that's making ROH and FIP as good as possible for you.

If this doesn't apply to you sorry for the rant. If it does then take this warning seriously.

Was this a sick joke by some stupid internet posters? Was this an ROH angle that got out of control? Had things been taken too far?

Maybe, maybe not.

This is a very strong denial by Mr. Sapolsky. What I write next I take very seriously and mean no offense to anyone, especially Mr. Sapolsky and his family. I have the utmost respect for him and his family's right to privacy. If something illegal did in fact happen, then he has every right and should take a legal course of action.

However, I remain skeptical of anything and everything possibly connected to Project 161, including Gabe's message on the website and the denial that this is an angle. Simply put, there are too many logical pieces of the puzzle that have occurred and continue to occur (Jimmy Rave's firing being one of them and we'll get to that in a bit) that place at least the possibility of this continuing to be an ARG—a work and not a shoot.

Quite frankly, Ring of Honor has blurred the lines between work and shoot many times before. It goes all the way back to some of the very first shows with Steve Corino and his "Group" causing the infamous riot at the One Year Anniversary Show. At first it seemed that event was a real riot and that Homicide's crew (most of which had never been seen by any ROH fans before) rushed the ring. However, when the show continued and was not shut down and multiple replays of the riot were shown on DVD, it became clear that most of the events of that night were orchestrated. ROH has done many different shadings of real and work since then, including American Dragon and Roderick Strong letting their in ring issues "get too heated", and even blurring their presence online, such as last years' "crashing" of the ROH message board by quote unquote "Chris Hero". Of course that was also part of the story and led to Hero gaining massive heat in the ROH vs. CZW feud.

IF this isn't really a part of the story, then simply put its ROH's version of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf." As much as ROH and other web columnists / reporters will claim this is NOT an angle—how do we believe that given the past history of ROH? How does anyone except those within ROH know for sure? The very nature of the internet being what it is if this isn't real I'm surprised it didn't happen to them a lot earlier.

IF this is a real deal, ROH has a lot to gain and a lot to lose. Many fans are saying they would stop watching it and take it as a sign of ROH betraying their trust. Others were initially completely pumped up and excited about the prospects of playing along with the game and seeing what developed along the way. ARGs are supposedly the new in thing on the internet (although I had no clue what these were until this whole mess started) and the real world and are increasingly being used to hype products and spread word of mouth. Of course, one notable time when it backfired was the "Aqua Teen Hunger Force" incident involving an LED display of a ATHF character being placed within along ten major cities. Some citizens in Boston who didn't know anything about the show thought it was a bomb threat and it SHUT THE WHOLE CITY DOWN. There were criminal charges and fines paid. That is a major backfire. IS this a similar situation?

In addition to the internet messages, Project161 and Honor161 were AIM names that you could contact and they will leave cryptic messages. Project161 was the first screen name to respond when random fans messaged him or her. He or she responded with cryptic messages similar to the ones placed on the website. When Honor161 bombarded the board on the second day, the manner of the message was the same, but the tone and tenor were subtly different. These messages were brusquer and more outward in their reference of ROH stables like The Prophecy and The Resilience. The Project161 name claimed Honor161 was an imposter. The AIM name Project161 has since disappeared off the IM map. Honor161 is still answering his IMs and gives varying cryptic responses. In an experimental effort if I approached this person for an interview to see what would happen. The following is a transcript of that short conversation that took place on 8/2/07:

ABear729 [11:22 AM]: I represent the Column of Honor at 411mania. Would you care to make a comment to the press about your recent actions?
Honor 161 [11:24 AM]: Actions Speak Louder Then Any Words, And Honor Will Die Soon.
ABear729 [11:24 AM]: How do you intent to go about fulfilling this agenda?
Honor 161 [11:25 AM]: By Force
ABear729 [11:28 AM]: Who is responsible for these actions? Who is your leader?
Honor 161 [11:29 AM]: Gabriel Will Lead Us
ABear729 [11:30 AM]: Is this a religious cult? Or are you secular?
Honor 161 [11:31 AM]: Religion? We are not a religion, just a group joined by goals
ABear729 [11:32 AM]: Right, the goal of honor dying...so if honor does die, what happens then? What is in its place?
Honor 161 [11:43 AM]: We are in it's place, We take over, people join us, and We The Abused become the empowered, and get the shots
ABear729 [11:43 AM]: How do you respond to people on the message boards claiming you are an imposter?
Honor 161 [11:45 AM]: They will find out in time what to believe, but as for now they can believe what they want
ABear729 [11:46 AM]: Well, thank you for your time. May I contact you again in the future for more quotes?
Honor 161 [11:46 AM]: Yes, and your welcome Sir
ABear729 [11:46 AM]: Good day.

I'll say this, he may be an anarchist, but he was a very polite anarchist. Especially with the "sir" line. Not even my students usually say that.

"Honor161" may or may not be related to the "Project161", may or may not be a fan trying to get in on the action or may or may not actually be different people answering at different times. I will make NO personal claims that this person is authentic or part of any storyline or anything of the sort. I just wanted to see what would happen if I engaged in conversation. Regardless, this person seemed to follow the tone of "the game" quite well. I may engage this person in the future to see what his or her reactions will be to developments in ROH.

My personal opinions of this are the following:

Using an ARG as an intro a new angle is quite frankly ingenious. IF. ROH has often stayed with or ahead of the curve of what's "in" for society. With such storylines as CM Punk's stealing of the ROH title and Generation Next coming for the top slots in the company, ROH has presented wrestling storylines that both harken back to the old school days of wrestling but also present cutting edge and modern day sensibilities.

As to why someone would use an ARG for a wrestling angle instead of just simply doing a wrestling angle, think of it this way. IF this is true, this is a low risk situation. It has nothing to do with the main angles of the current ROH product. It would take nothing away from the quality of work in the ring. I would compare this to a "side project" in music. The side project album gets some attention and is noticed by the smaller but hardcore faithful of a band. The band itself keeps the focus of the mainstream and casual audience, while the hardcores "find" the side project. In the same manner, the major angles in ROH would still be the wrestling centered angles and matches. These are the easiest to "pick up and play"—that being The Briscoes vs. Steen and Generico, The Morishima/ Danielson/ McGuinness three way rivalry for the ROH World title and the Claudio Castagnoli / Sweet and Sour Inc. rivalry. Each has a solid logical reasoning for occurring and each has received plenty of spotlight in the ring where this sort of "side project" angle wouldn't take away from that at all.

Like it or not we're all a part of this now for the next six weeks…including the believers and the skeptics. All the fans who followed P161 are a part of it now, whether it real or fake, those who believe and play into it and those who don't believe and dismiss it. That's part of this equation as well. Both fuel the other side's beliefs about the legitimacy or illegitimacy of this story and that plays into the game even more, because as events continue on, it's all the more subject to supposition and conjecture (see again developments with Rave). You can easily become more and more paranoid and conspiratorial as this goes on. You may even become a member of ROH's version of The Lone Gunmen from X-Files.

It helps IF you don't take it so seriously and treat this as if it's the end of the world if it goes either way. That way if it is a work, well, you had fun. If it's for real, well, that's the world we live in nowadays and it's a shock it didn't happen sooner given ROH's deep connection to the net.

Is this a game? Is it not? The answer is up for grabs but there's no real way to know about anything for sure just yet. Even what Gabe says or what websites like PWInsider report such as Rave's firing is suspect and up for questioning. I'm not saying this is the case here specially for PWInsider, but it does lead to doubt and confusion—what or who can we as internet consumers trust anymore? You can't trust much until September 15th.

After that show is the only real way we'll know for sure what is what. If Project 161 does not come to pass, then this would have been just another wacky and crazy chapter in the history of the Internet Wrestling Community and the probability clearly goes towards this being a hoax. IF Pearce or Jacobs come out and declare a war on honor, well then, wouldn't that be something? Then again, maybe given all that has occurred, ROH will take advantage of the situation and indeed do something along the lines of a stable for Pearce or Jacobs after all.

For more info, the Project161 blog (which was taken down) has a mirror you can access here (start with update 1 and work your way up):

Stop the Presses NOTE: absuedsociety.com and nhsociety.com are currently down and GoDaddy is "parking" the site. The question is now "where did it go?" Is this the end of everything or only the end of phase 1? Again, answers to follow in the weeks to come.

[DeToxRox]

This is the other blog they've used

http://foxybanana.com/~bhearsum/project161.html

[DeToxRox]

Just finishing out the info posted .. this is from the "abusedsociety.com" site that was advertised on fliers last weekend..



This is the other pic that turned up there, this one of ROH Booker Gabe Sapolsky and his wife.

[Toddzilla]

"Honor 161 [11:46 AM]: Yes, and your welcome Sir"

your welcome?

[DeToxRox]

Well .. Vince McMahon has lost his mind

[DeToxRox]

I usually don't Raw for the wrestling, because I know it'll be servicable at best but wow, I laughed my ass off at Raw tonight. The Dating game, while useless, was amazing.

DAMN!
SPAM!
NAM!
SCRAM!

[Joe]

mcmahon gets paternity papers. if they are actually doing the angle where he's the father of stephanie's baby... that's just a little sick.

[Flasch186]

seriously, Jillian Hall is going to hurt someone wrestling. she needs to get sent back to the training camp.

Also Santino Morella has worn out his welcome and is getting old....Im sure that'll be the reason for his turn but the guy better be saving his money.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I usually don't Raw for the wrestling, because I know it'll be servicable at best but wow, I laughed my ass off at Raw tonight. The Dating game, while useless, was amazing.

DAMN!
SPAM!
NAM!
SCRAM!

Yeah, I was rolling my eyes when I saw it at first, but the whole thing worked better than I expected. Of course, it didn't hurt that Maria was out there. And I'm quite happy they made Regal the GM, he's done well in that role before.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

seriously, Jillian Hall is going to hurt someone wrestling. she needs to get sent back to the training camp.

Also Santino Morella has worn out his welcome and is getting old....Im sure that'll be the reason for his turn but the guy better be saving his money.

If you read Lance Storms commentaries he often says Jillian is the WWEs best female wrestler. He trained her in OVW along with most of the other divas so take it for what its worth.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

If you read Lance Storms commentaries he often says Jillian is the WWEs best female wrestler. He trained her in OVW along with most of the other divas so take it for what its worth.

It is not evident in her matches. She is consistently off and seems to be disconnected to the script or her wrestling partner. Monday night there were a few times where a 6 inch variance wouldve caused an injury possibly. This is not the first time Ive seen this in her matches either. I would say Lance may be biased in his view of her now vs. what he saw then. She needs to get brushed up.