Werewolf XXXVII: Middle-Earth - GAME ENDS. Who Won? Check it out!

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Just so that everyone knows this before they jump to a bunch of conclusions, I was out Monday night when the switch to lynch Scoobz happened. I was out bowling from 7:30~10. So, I wasn't around to change my vote.

Fair enough, though I still have my eye on you.... just less so now.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm not sure this is a fair statement. I think this is my 5th - 7th game with you. I'm well aware of it, but even if you get super defensive I am curious to why you lumped me in with Dodgerchick just for asking questions of you. I notice instead of answering my question you changed subjects instead and made a sideshow of it.

Oh great. I'm going to get picked apart now. Joy.

I lumped you in there because of your post on the last page regarding my response to DC's vote. Maybe I shouldn't have, but I've seen you subtley point your finger at someone too many times to not be defensive about it.

When you start doing the semi-accusitory "question thing", and the sly "I noticed" this or that, I get scared. You're a lot like hoopsguy in that way.

I'm not accusing you of anything, but I just never feel safe when you mention me. You're like the Eye of Sauron - it's better to stay out of your gaze.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

SnDvls - 68 - Wow, I didn't realize he had this many posts. Well, he's splattered now, so it doesn't matter.

gee thanks

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Oh great. I'm going to get picked apart now. Joy.

I lumped you in there because of your post on the last page regarding my response to DC's vote. Maybe I shouldn't have, but I've seen you subtley point your finger at someone too many times to not be defensive about it.

When you start doing the semi-accusitory "question thing", and the sly "I noticed" this or that, I get scared. You're a lot like hoopsguy in that way.

I'm not accusing you of anything, but I just never feel safe when you mention me. You're like the Eye of Sauron - it's better to stay out of your gaze.

So I haven't played enough with you yet to notice how defensive you get once attacked, but we have played enough for you to pick up the subtle things I have done as a wolf in the past?

For the record, I actually can't remember a game where you were bad. Just always remember never having any clue about you any game because you always make me think you're bad how UtR you are. So I don't even know if I remember what you are like when a wolf.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So I haven't played enough with you yet to notice how defensive you get once attacked, but we have played enough for you to pick up the subtle things I have done as a wolf in the past?

Oh crap. It's the question thing. I'm screwed.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Oh crap. It's the question thing. I'm screwed.

For better or worse, whichever side you are on I'm glad you are playing again.

You make me laugh

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

If you and AlanT lead a charge to lynch me and succeed, you will look terrible, and my fellow citizens of Bree will be much, much weaker.

As far as my voting record, I don't think it's fair to pick on my day 1 vote, since everyone was randomly voting because of the normal day 1 lack of evidence. The only thing that you have to go on is 1 vote - Chief Rum. So saying that my "voting history" is bad, is an overstatement. I wasn't the first one to vote for him, and really had nothing else to go on, so I voted for him. Obviously, it was a mistake, but to say that it's truly incriminating is silly.

I know that although we don't have a lot to go on at this point, and that voting for me seems as good as voting for anyone else, I reiterate that you would be making a big mistake (unless you are bad yourself).

LOL, me leading a charge to get someone voted off? Heh, I don't think I've ever done that. I've thrown some stuff out there, but more often than not, it's taken as a grain of salt.

Yeah, well, we have nothing else to go on so I looked at something that stood out. Besides, this is the first time I've had the privilege of playing with you so I have no clue what you're playing style is like.

Alright, with that said, now that I have my little spreadsheet updated with votes and notes, I'll be off for a few.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Alan T

For better or worse, whichever side you are on I'm glad you are playing again.

You make me laugh

I'm glad to be back. I just hope I can stick around long enough to enjoy the game, and to be able to help Bree.

[Grammaticus]

Spleen I was doing the same thing you were. I thought Lathum’s idea of looking at who did not vote on the vote getters was a decent Idea.

People I saw, who did not vote CR or Lathum on day 2.
Tyrith - who voted for Swaggs after saying Lathum was his most suspicious
Blade – who votes AlanT
CR – who voted Saldana. CR was lynched and turned up good
SnDvl – who voted st.cronin. SnDvl is dead as night kill

That leaves Tyrigh and Blade. I don’t think going the Blade route is good. I’d like to know more about his role, because I too thought it sounded like a Gollum type role. I’m leaning toward thinking he has a neutral type role that may have something more to it. I think we need to keep him around for now.

I think Tyrith’s play moving off Lathum and voting Swaggs after saying Lathum is very suspicious makes no sense, other than not to have a vote on anyone in the race. You see at that point Lathum was off the hood and CR was the only real candidate with an actual possibility that he would not get lynched. So Tyrith threw a vote away or buried it. Roll that into the fact he stayed out of the vote getters on day one and it looks like a throw away two days in a row. Add to that the fact he keeps suggesting no lynch until we have more info…

Right now I think my most suspicious is

VOTE TYRITH

[Grammaticus]

BTW, I can move my vote elsewhere if something better comes along. I do like the UTR approach when information is limited, for what it’s worth.

[st.cronin]

The Tyrith votes intrigue me.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

LOL, me leading a charge to get someone voted off? Heh, I don't think I've ever done that. I've thrown some stuff out there, but more often than not, it's taken as a grain of salt.

Yeah, well, we have nothing else to go on so I looked at something that stood out. Besides, this is the first time I've had the privilege of playing with you so I have no clue what you're playing style is like.

Alright, with that said, now that I have my little spreadsheet updated with votes and notes, I'll be off for a few.

I'm glad to get the chance to play with you too. I really wish Ant would play. (Why doesn't he?)

As far as my play-style, I'm pretty much terrible. I don't have the ability to be sneaky or subtle because I wear my emotions on my sleeve so much, and I'm not very good at picking things apart or analyzing posts. I generally play on "feel", which gets me in trouble a lot of times. All of those things combined always seem to make me look like a bad guy, no matter what my role.

[Tyrith]

How do you all keep saying I BURIED MY VOTE YESTERDAY? Do you think I would be so stupid as to think that I could move a vote off the LOSING candidate and make it _less_ noticable? The sheer fact that we're talking about it now means I must have done a real terrible job if that was my goal. And the vote wasn't thrown away because it was on Lathum until it was too late.

And the whole no lynch thing....guys, you KNOW I've fought that policy before while I have been a good guy. If you use that as an excuse for killing me you're either underinformed (perfectly okay, I'm teling you here), dense (not so much), or a wolf.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

The Tyrith votes intrigue me.

I find it interesting that the UTRs are the ones leading the charge -- my idea actually worked, for once. Now you can evaluate if they should die tomorrow, if they get their wish. I'd usually say first man in is good if they're targeting a villager, but seeing that I made myself the best candidate today spleen could be taking a risk as a bad guy. It's kind of early for that kind of thing, though. I'm counting on you and Alan to avenge me, if one or both of you is good

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I'm glad to get the chance to play with you too. I really wish Ant would play. (Why doesn't he?)

Well, we have a little thing with WW. He thinks I suck because more often than not, I vote for the wrong people. Actually, come to think of it, I've yet to vote for a wolf... wow! Anyway, I challenged him to play and he said if I finish one of his books, he'll jump in. So I'm working on it.

He thinks this game is easy... heh, I'm curious to see how well he does.

Anyway, I should get back to my son.

[DaddyTorgo]

grrrrr....half an hour for me to vote. my thoughts in no particular order

Tyrith: suspicious for the Lathum vote-switch, although Cronin finding that vote suspicious gives me great pause
KWhit: very very quiet
ntndeacon: if we're cleaning out the dead wood, what about this guy?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Just trying to break up the votes in any kind of patterns that i can find.
(607) Kwhit votes Lathum (6)

The ending we had Izulde moving his vote to be a participant in the lynch and Dodgerchick putting the last vote on to cinch the lynch. We also see Kwhit do last minute flipflopping which to me seemed quite odd, but I already had distrust of Kwhit before this move.


(738) Izulde UNVOTES Blade (0) ***
(738) Izulde votes Chief Rum (11)
(752) Dodgerchick votes Chief Rum (12)
(758) Kwhit UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(758) Kwhit votes Chief Rum (13)
(765) Kwhit UNVOTES Chief Rum (12) ***
(765) Kwhit votes Lathum (7)

Thanks Alan for this bit of analysis. I too had found KWhit's flip flopping of votes to be a bit strange. What's the story here KWhit?

[DaddyTorgo]

also on my radar:
Izulde: fond of throwing things out with little explanation, only other time i saw him doing this he was a wolf.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Whoops, upon closer inspection, Thomkal voted for Scoobz, my bad.



The first vote of the day was post #126 and the last vote was post #388. Mr. Wednesday's vote was #341 (which was closer towards the end), Schmidty's vote was #301, and spleen was #180.

I dunno, I see it more as they were throwing their vote onto someone they figured was on the side of the light instead of voting for a fellow baddie.

Thanks for correcting this Dodgerchick, I was going to have to yell at you.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm backing off tyrith a bit...i don't think he's the BEST option...I'm with Thomkal, I want to see some more explanation from KWhit.

In the absence of any explanation or better thoughts, in 25 minutes before i head off to work until after-lynch I plan on voting KWhit and will be unable to change.

[Tyrith]

I'll take this as I go, but I now have a new leading suspect.

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Roll that into the fact he stayed out of the vote getters on day one and it looks like a throw away two days in a row.

If you would note, I have no posts between sometime around maybe 530 CST Monday (possibly an hour earlier) until after 10 CST Monday. You want to know why? I was out that evening. Meaning I wasn't around to see the giant horde develop onto scoobz, so I couldn't change my vote.

Your arguments against me are mostly rehashes of other arguments made previously that are misinterpretations of my actions. For the first guy those could just be accidental, but I already laid out my response, and you chose to ignore it. Furthermore, if you want to talk about throwaway votes, your vote yesterday was right in the middle of the CR votes, and you did it for no other reason than getting a majority. The perfect place to hide if you're trying to lynch a good guy but you don't want to stick your neck out at all. The Jonathan-Thomkal-Gram-spleen group makes me suspicious because of the way the lynch went down yesterday, with people voting early just so we have a lynch. Furthermore, today you weren't the first man in, which is traditionally the most risky spot for a wolf to make a play, but the third man in, which is where major voting movements get started. That means you get to be the number one man Gram. If I die today please guys, come back to this post.

VOTE GRAMMATICUS

[spleen1015]

I'm starting to believe that Tyirth may be good. He is saying things that I don't think a wolf would say when trying to defend himself.

Things have gotten a little interesting this afternoon.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

The Jonathan-Thomkal-Gram-spleen group makes me suspicious because of the way the lynch went down yesterday, with people voting early just so we have a lynch.

I can't speak for the others, but my first two final votes have been to get a lynch. I had no beef with Scoobz (other than not showing up) or CR, but I felt like it was important to get the lynch. Now, however, I'm starting to lean more towards voting just for those I think are evil and not worrying about the lynch.

[Grammaticus]

Okay, Tyrith why did you go to Swaggs after saying Lathum was very suspicious and your vote was actually sitting on Lathum? Then, you just moved it over to swaggs where it was a one vote deal

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

I can't speak for the others, but my first two final votes have been to get a lynch. I had no beef with Scoobz (other than not showing up) or CR, but I felt like it was important to get the lynch. Now, however, I'm starting to lean more towards voting just for those I think are evil and not worrying about the lynch.

I think there has to be a good balance. Thinking today has made me object a lot less to yesterday's lynch than I was (now it's mainly D1 that ticks me off). And I can understand wanting to get a lynch. However, if you're a wolf trying to hide, that's a really easy way to do it.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Okay, Tyrith why did you go to Swaggs after saying Lathum was very suspicious and your vote was actually sitting on Lathum? Then, you just moved it over to swaggs where it was a one vote deal

I believe I have mentioned this multiple times, but I'll do it again. Lathum wasn't going to get lynched, and Swaggs arguments about how much the Day 1 vote record mattered were really ticking me off at the time. So I put a vote into him to try to stir up talking about it, since the vote wasn't gonna do much good where it was.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I believe I have mentioned this multiple times, but I'll do it again. Lathum wasn't going to get lynched, and Swaggs arguments about how much the Day 1 vote record mattered were really ticking me off at the time. So I put a vote into him to try to stir up talking about it, since the vote wasn't gonna do much good where it was.

For whatever its worth, I think the voting record shows that when you moved off of Lathum it still was close enough that the late voters who voted just to make sure there was a lynch could have still had a choice had you not moved at the time.

Also for the record I do think there is something to be said about the day 1 votes, and I personally think everyone who has just written off that no one dark or light knew Scoobz allegiance before we know what exactly is posted on the death of a bad guy seems really suspicious to me. I've argued this point many times.

I am leaning to thinking Lathum is likely good today so didn't put alot of weight into your moving off of him like you did earlier today (why would you move off of a good guy like that in that situation if you are bad?) However your leaning on your statements as fact and questioning people who have issues with it are making you hypocritical and guilty of doing exactly what you accused Lathum of doing yesterday to your questions of him.

I guess your defense here about those "facts" which to me don't seem facts are more suspicious than the actions themselves.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm....vote tyrith or vote kwhit...3 minutes to decide

[Alan T]

And proof of what I am talking about in regards to Tyrith, lets recap the vote where he and Mr.W both moved off of Lathum:


(704) Tyrith UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(704) Tyrith votes Swaggs (1)
(707) BrianD UNVOTES Spleen (0) ***
(707) BrianD votes Lathum (7)
(708) Mr.Wednesday UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(708) Mr.Wednesday votes Chief Rum (10)
(712) DaddyTorgo votes Lathum (7)
(738) Izulde UNVOTES Blade (0) ***
(738) Izulde votes Chief Rum (11)
(752) Dodgerchick votes Chief Rum (12)
(758) Kwhit UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(758) Kwhit votes Chief Rum (13)
(765) Kwhit UNVOTES Chief Rum (12) ***
(765) Kwhit votes Lathum (7)

Chief Rum 9 Lathum 7

Tyrith unvotes lathum, votes Swaggs = Chief Rum 9, Lathum 6
Brian unvotes Spleen, votes Lathum = Chief Rum 9, Lathum 7 (could have been 9-8)
Mr.Wednesday unvotes Lathum, votes Chief rum = Chief Rum 10, Lathum 6
Daddy Torgot votes Lathum = Chief Rum 10, Lathum 7 (could have been 9-9)


We will ignore Kwhit's moving around at the end as it doesn't really take place here. As we can see if Tyrith and Mr.W had NOT moved off, it would have been 9-9 at this point. Izulde later moved his vote to Chief, and Dodgerchick was the only one left to vote. This alone could have made it 11-9 Chief over Lathum, 11-9 Lathum over Chief or 10-10 tie with time for people to move votes if need be to ensure a lynch if they really wanted to.

it also would have left things tight to the end to see who was willing to move a vote to save someone in case Chief was bad (which Tyrith if good had no evidence of either way).

With Tyrith and Mr.W moving their votes the way they did, it not only made sure Chief would get lynched, it also made sure there would not be any need for anyone else to move votes to save someone or lynch someone later.

So while I am still sticking with my desire to not put a vote on you Tyrith because Im thinking Lathum likely is good, and if both Chief and Lathum are good, what benefit would a bad guy have making this move... I think your stating as a fact Lathum would not get lynched is very deceptive and is the biggest problem I have with you yet.

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE KWHIT

1) I trust Alan's judgement and suspiscion and strongly believe him to be a villager.
2) KWhit's late vote flip-flop on D2
3) KWhit being very quiet

That's all I've got. And I'll be gone until either right before or just after-lynch doing the Xmas Setup down at work. If I get done early I MIGHT make it home in time to change my vote last-minute but don't count on it

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

VOTE KWHIT

1) I trust Alan's judgement and suspiscion and strongly believe him to be a villager.
2) KWhit's late vote flip-flop on D2
3) KWhit being very quiet

That's all I've got. And I'll be gone until either right before or just after-lynch doing the Xmas Setup down at work. If I get done early I MIGHT make it home in time to change my vote last-minute but don't count on it

Kwhit is one of the people I was thinking about voting for before I started getting more suspicious of Tyrith's arguement this afternoon.. but out of curiosity why do you trust my judgement? I don't know anything more about Kwhit than I do about Chief Rum who I was wrong about yesterday.

There is a reason I've not put a vote out yet.. I'm tired of people blindly voting for my choice and then blaming it on me.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I believe I have mentioned this multiple times, but I'll do it again. Lathum wasn't going to get lynched, and Swaggs arguments about how much the Day 1 vote record mattered were really ticking me off at the time. So I put a vote into him to try to stir up talking about it, since the vote wasn't gonna do much good where it was.

Actually this is what you said yesterday about switching off Lathum:

Tyrith - I'm not making sense right now when it comes to the whole Lathum situation. I'm well and truly on tilt when it comes to him.

Also, you moved the vote off Lathum onto Swaggs at 9:21pm. That would leave about 39 minutes to make Swaggs talk…. Sorry but that does not make sense.

I’m not saying this makes you bad, I’m just looking at what looks the most suspicious to me.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

For whatever its worth, I think the voting record shows that when you moved off of Lathum it still was close enough that the late voters who voted just to make sure there was a lynch could have still had a choice had you not moved at the time.

Also for the record I do think there is something to be said about the day 1 votes, and I personally think everyone who has just written off that no one dark or light knew Scoobz allegiance before we know what exactly is posted on the death of a bad guy seems really suspicious to me. I've argued this point many times.

I am leaning to thinking Lathum is likely good today so didn't put alot of weight into your moving off of him like you did earlier today (why would you move off of a good guy like that in that situation if you are bad?) However your leaning on your statements as fact and questioning people who have issues with it are making you hypocritical and guilty of doing exactly what you accused Lathum of doing yesterday to your questions of him.

I guess your defense here about those "facts" which to me don't seem facts are more suspicious than the actions themselves.

The difference is that yesterday Lathum seemed to be accusing people of being a wolf for no other reason than for suspecting him. Today I did indeed vote for Gram, but it was his suspicion of me combined with other factors -- note that spleen was first man in and I don't really suspect him that much. I also like to think that I'm putting forth an actual plausible argument here. At least I hope it's partially plausible, because that's about the state my thoughts were at last night...if you couldn't tell, I was pretty darn angry with Lathum.

The difference as I see between me today and Lathum yesterday is that I'm actually asking questions and trying to work with the logic of the people aligning against me rather than just calling them wolves. And yes, I was probably a bit unfair to Lathum yesterday at a personal level, and I have to apologize for that -- I let my emotional response control me in a manner that worked to the detriment of the team.

That said, it isn't as much that Gram ignored my "facts" that I laid out as that he did not consider a reasonable defense (at least in the context of me) before laying out another vote. Combined with yesterday it leapt him to the top of the list for now. It's another example of more than one event combining to make me leery of a person.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Actually this is what you said yesterday about switching off Lathum:



Also, you moved the vote off Lathum onto Swaggs at 9:21pm. That would leave about 39 minutes to make Swaggs talk…. Sorry but that does not make sense.

I’m not saying this makes you bad, I’m just looking at what looks the most suspicious to me.

Sure, if you look at what I said yesterday and ignore what I've said today when responding to spleen. I would figure there would be a bit of recency. And I was mostly not making sense when it came to my emotions concerning Lathum (see my last post); I was actually lucid enough when it came to the vote. And you know that 39 minutes is plenty of time to stir trouble when someone is actually around, especially since votes just don't get forgotten when the lynch happens.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

The difference is that yesterday Lathum seemed to be accusing people of being a wolf for no other reason than for suspecting him. Today I did indeed vote for Gram, but it was his suspicion of me combined with other factors -- note that spleen was first man in and I don't really suspect him that much. I also like to think that I'm putting forth an actual plausible argument here. At least I hope it's partially plausible, because that's about the state my thoughts were at last night...if you couldn't tell, I was pretty darn angry with Lathum.

The difference as I see between me today and Lathum yesterday is that I'm actually asking questions and trying to work with the logic of the people aligning against me rather than just calling them wolves. And yes, I was probably a bit unfair to Lathum yesterday at a personal level, and I have to apologize for that -- I let my emotional response control me in a manner that worked to the detriment of the team.

That said, it isn't as much that Gram ignored my "facts" that I laid out as that he did not consider a reasonable defense (at least in the context of me) before laying out another vote. Combined with yesterday it leapt him to the top of the list for now. It's another example of more than one event combining to make me leery of a person.

I guess my point is that I think its fair for these people to be asking these questions of you. I stated my reasons for why I can see their point and where they are coming from. I find it more wrong that you instantly think they are a wolf for asking these questions , or at least appearing to be thinking they are a wolf for just asking the questions.

While I have come up to my own conclusion to the answers at this time, I fully do not expect others to come to the same conclusions all the time. I think its fair for people to ask the questions, and as you said with Swaggs yesterday putting a vote on him to try to get him to talk, why can't these people do the same with you?

I still don't think I'll vote for you, but I guess it depends on how honest I think you are being when trying to see their side of the issue too. Right now I definitly can see their viewpoint as its one of the paths I went down this morning (if you remember me asking the question in the post with the three scenerios of Chief vs Lathum voters and what the bad guys would have done yesterday)

[Tyrith]

Dola, I made my vote switch yesterday not to talk about Swaggs as a lynch candidate for yesterday but more to get a conversation started about the whole thing in general. I suppose I should actually make a point in that regard:

If Swaggs kept talking about the day 1 vote like that, what could it mean for us? What if the Day 1 vote record would have the bad guys looking good? It's quite possible they "turned" (a term I must use loosely because I still believe they didn't know scoobz was bad) on their own teammate in order to make themselves look better later. And if that's the case and you want to be really paranoid, Alan's defense of it could mean a conspiracy.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I guess my point is that I think its fair for these people to be asking these questions of you. I stated my reasons for why I can see their point and where they are coming from. I find it more wrong that you instantly think they are a wolf for asking these questions , or at least appearing to be thinking they are a wolf for just asking the questions.

While I have come up to my own conclusion to the answers at this time, I fully do not expect others to come to the same conclusions all the time. I think its fair for people to ask the questions, and as you said with Swaggs yesterday putting a vote on him to try to get him to talk, why can't these people do the same with you?

I still don't think I'll vote for you, but I guess it depends on how honest I think you are being when trying to see their side of the issue too. Right now I definitly can see their viewpoint as its one of the paths I went down this morning (if you remember me asking the question in the post with the three scenerios of Chief vs Lathum voters and what the bad guys would have done yesterday)

Yes, it is perfectly fair for them to ask the questions. It's just when the same question is asked repeatedly it gets frustrating. Furthermore, it is fair for me to make arguments in response to the questions and to ask questions about why they are asking the questions. The chain of questions I asked spleen earlier would be the latter. Note again that I'm not saying that their votes are stupid, unfair, or anything of that nature, I'm just trying to make sure there aren't _more_ votes made from reasoning I consider to be incorrect.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Yes, it is perfectly fair for them to ask the questions. It's just when the same question is asked repeatedly it gets frustrating. Furthermore, it is fair for me to make arguments in response to the questions and to ask questions about why they are asking the questions. The chain of questions I asked spleen earlier would be the latter. Note again that I'm not saying that their votes are stupid, unfair, or anything of that nature, I'm just trying to make sure there aren't _more_ votes made from reasoning I consider to be incorrect.

Fair enough. As long as you don't think it is wrong for people to be asking you these questions and are open to the discussion about whether or not to vote for you its fine with me. I've seen alot of vote and runs so far the first two days with little or no explanation, so just found it interesting the one you chose to attack back on is all. It felt alot like how Lathum responded to you yesterday in the heat of the moment for pretty much the same thing.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Fair enough. As long as you don't think it is wrong for people to be asking you these questions and are open to the discussion about whether or not to vote for you its fine with me. I've seen alot of vote and runs so far the first two days with little or no explanation, so just found it interesting the one you chose to attack back on is all. It felt alot like how Lathum responded to you yesterday in the heat of the moment for pretty much the same thing.

Nah, I brought today onto myself, this is fine.

[Alan T]

Well, I have about 12 people right now all of whom are suspicious, and haven't seen anything that jumps out at me to differentiate between any of them to make one stand out. I think right now I am leaning to option 1 in considering yesterday's vote and for now working on the assumption that Lathum is more likely good than not good at least until I know more.

I'll also go with what the majority is saying about the day 1 vote where most people think the bad guys did not know Scoobz was evil either. While I think it would be a drastic mistake to write that down as fact, I'll go along with that just for today's vote at least till I know more about how bad guys are recorded in post #1 at death.

With that in mind, if I am assuming at least for today that the bad guys assumed both day 1 and day 2 votes were villager vs villager votes, they'd likely just stay out of the villager's way and let the townspeople make the mistakes for them without doing alot suspicious. I know that sometimes hiding in plain sight is a very viable strategy, so it wouldn't suprise me horribly if Kwhit or Mr.W or Tyrith were a wolf but as of now I can't find enough of a motive to push a case for any of them if I assume Lathum is more likely good than not good.

So my only other really good options is to vote someone out of Spite (Blade), or to vote someone trying to look for specific results. I'm going to go with the latter here and place a vote on Ntndeacon. Right now he has the least amount of posts in the game, has less votes than Hoopsguy who isn't playing and Fouts who died night1. The only player that Ntndeacon has more votes than right now is Scoobz which doesn't say much.

Could Ntndeacon be good? possibly but he is laying so low he isn't leaving us any information to discern that from and if he keeps this up 3-5 days we'll be trying to figure out his allegiance without anything to go on. So whether or not he's bad I have no idea.. but Ntndeacon needs to start contributing or I will just vote him off as dead weight.

Vote Ntndeacon

That said, I need to head out from work soon, and likely gone a few hours. If I come back and see 5-6 people jump on this vote without saying anything more than "sounds good" I swear I'll think about voting you tommorrow. I dont mind if people follow on this vote, but please provide some reason or analysis yourself.

Should be back before the lynch with time to move if need be.

[Sublime 2]

Tyrith, maybe you can clear this up for me, first you said this:

Originally Posted by Tyrith

At that point the Lathum lynch really didn't have much momentum behind it. As bad as the reasoning was for CR it was worse for Lathum, where people were just voting for him for the sake of making it a race...and that push was dying as the focus became on getting a lynch of a lynch's sake. I don't believe in that kind of lynch, so I wasn't voting for CR. Swaggs kept insisting that the day 1 vote meant something, and I strongly disagree with that concept. Was Swaggs thought process a wolf move? Not necessarily, but the wolves could push us to look at the day 1 vote record because they know it will be in their favor. Thus the vote.

Then followed it up with this a few posts later:

Originally Posted by Tyrith

The reason I voted for Lathum was his vote combined with the whole discussion about a failed conversion that cronin picked up on. The two combined made him a slightly better candidate.

Now I guess I'm just confused, and maybe you just made a mistake but in the first you said that you felt like voting for CR made more sense than voting for Lathum right? Then in the next post you say that you felt Lathum was the better candidate, now I am assuming you meant better candidate than CR, which is where I could be going wrong. Now, I know you've answered some of the other questions, but I really haven't seen you answer this...

[BrianD]

I could be wrong, but I keep having this nagging feeling that Tyrith declared "Lathum isn't going to get lynched anyway" as a way to try to push people off of Lathum. I could see the argument of Tyrith thinking Lathum was good (even though he said he didn't think that), but he wouldn't have been trying to drive away votes. This could mean that Lathum is someone important to the Dark side, or it could just be teamwork going on. For now, I'm going to...

Vote Tyrith

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Tyrith, maybe you can clear this up for me, first you said this:




Then followed it up with this a few posts later:



Now I guess I'm just confused, and maybe you just made a mistake but in the first you said that you felt like voting for CR made more sense than voting for Lathum right? Then in the next post you say that you felt Lathum was the better candidate, now I am assuming you meant better candidate than CR, which is where I could be going wrong. Now, I know you've answered some of the other questions, but I really haven't seen you answer this...

I was referring to it considering the votes that came after me.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I could be wrong, but I keep having this nagging feeling that Tyrith declared "Lathum isn't going to get lynched anyway" as a way to try to push people off of Lathum. I could see the argument of Tyrith thinking Lathum was good (even though he said he didn't think that), but he wouldn't have been trying to drive away votes. This could mean that Lathum is someone important to the Dark side, or it could just be teamwork going on. For now, I'm going to...

Vote Tyrith

Um, if Lathum was important to my side why would I have been the second vote in on him? My vote pretty much dragged his name into the conversation as the second man in the race.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Um, if Lathum was important to my side why would I have been the second vote in on him? My vote pretty much dragged his name into the conversation as the second man in the race.

It is a good question. Does getting him into the race counter you getting him out of it? I can't get over the feeling that you are trying to play both sides on this one. If he turns out bad you can point to being the second one on him and saying that you still thought he was bad (before removing your vote). If he turns out good you can point to you moving your vote off of him. I worry when someone tries to give themselves too many outs.

[saldana]

well, i havent had much to say today, but one person that set some bells off for me was Kwhit.

first he tried bring blade back into the spotlight when he wasnt taking any head, and wasnt on the board...as soon as i called him on it, he never said another word about it. i got the feeling he was tring to yurn up the heat and thought no one would stand up for blade.

then his little flip flop thing at the end was just bizzare....cronin's belief in no lynches being good for the village is well documented, and his pushing for that actually raises him near the top of my COT...he would be the last person i would vote for at this point....i think kwhit seized on cronin's ideas and dramatized his uncertainty...if DC hadnt voted late for CR, i believe Kwhit's unvote with no time left would have put us below the 50%


vote kwhit

[saldana]

that should say "taking any HEAT"!!!!!!

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by saldana

that should say "taking any HEAT"!!!!!!

yeah, I was gonna say...

[Lorena]

Of note, NTN has 8 posts, 2 of them have been votes (swaggs and lathum), 2 when he first joined, and the other 4 were short with no analysis. Pretty UTR if you ask me.

Now I hope Alan doesn't see this as I'm trying to buddy up with him, it's just something that I hadn't noticed until he brought it up.

[Thomkal]

Well going to be away from the computer for a bit, so I should make my vote. I've bounced back and forth between Ntndeacon, because he's been so quiet, and KWhit because of the late vote switch, but for now I'll go with the vote switch.

vote kwhit