FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dutch

He should have cooperated with the bank security guard's first and then at the very least, the cops. Instead, he was a douche. There is no reason not to say your name to the cop who is arriving to resolve a confrontation between a bank security guard and a loitering citizen.

There is no "must identify" statute on the books in Minnesota, so there was no requirement for him to have to give his name.

[JediKooter]

Being black, it's a completely different ball game. It's not an even playing field, so saying what 'you' should do, works only for a particular group of people that are privileged enough to not have to worry about the day to day hassles that another group has to deal with.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Dutch

He should have cooperated with the bank security guard's first and then at the very least, the cops. Instead, he was a douche. There is no reason not to say your name to the cop who is arriving to resolve a confrontation between a bank security guard and a loitering citizen.

If I am waiting for my kids and a asshole security guard says, "No loitering" then I fucking move. Why? Not because I need t fight for my rights right there, but because I have a greater responsibility to my children. This moron obviously doesn't get that.

And when the cops come to resolve the bank complaint, which is a pretty serious deal sometimes, he is a douche to them too. Totally forgetting that he's got kids to pick up, he's turned into some moronic constitutional vigiliante. Man, fuck that dude, with all the bad shit that happens in America, and forcing bank guards and cops to deal with all that shit....he's going to target them for a confrontation about his civil liberty to loiter where he wants and whether to say his name or not? And put his children at risk to witness that?

To be clear, it's my impression, that his punishment wasn't caused by being black, it was caused by being an idiot.

The lengths that you'll go to to rationalize this shit are amazing.

Sitting on a public bench isn't loitering.

Loitering - City of Minneapolis

On Public Property
Loitering by itself is not against the law. It is appropriate to call 911 if you believe the loiterers are violating laws such as consuming intoxicating beverages in public, loitering to solicit for prostitution, begging, disorderly conduct, and interfering with pedestrian or vehicular traffic.

Talk to others who are affected by this behavior and urge them to report it. Be specific in describing the persons and what they are doing.

And maybe he needed to sit because he was tired or something. Or fuck, maybe he just wanted to sit. But I guess if you're black, sitting down to rest looks like you're begging or something.

[JPhillips]

Having picked my daughter up from pre-school and primary school, I'd guess there is a specific pick-up procedure that does not allow for early pick-up. If he got there early he needed to wait until pick-up time and he made the crazy assumption that sitting in the public space on a bench would be acceptable.

[cuervo72]

So a cop can stop you whenever and wherever, taking time and energy out of your day just because they feel like it? And you have to comply? That's your contention, Dutch?

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Dutch

He should have cooperated with the bank security guard's first and then at the very least, the cops. Instead, he was a douche. There is no reason not to say your name to the cop who is arriving to resolve a confrontation between a bank security guard and a loitering citizen.

If I am waiting for my kids and a asshole security guard says, "No loitering" then I fucking move. Why? Not because I need t fight for my rights right there, but because I have a greater responsibility to my children. This moron obviously doesn't get that.

And when the cops come to resolve the bank complaint, which is a pretty serious deal sometimes, he is a douche to them too. Totally forgetting that he's got kids to pick up, he's turned into some moronic constitutional vigiliante. Man, fuck that dude, with all the bad shit that happens in America, and forcing bank guards and cops to deal with all that shit....he's going to target them for a confrontation about his civil liberty to loiter where he wants and whether to say his name or not? And put his children at risk to witness that?

To be clear, it's my impression, that his punishment wasn't caused by being black, it was caused by being an idiot.

I'm not sure I could disagree with anyone more completely than I do this post.

Not go jingoistic, but this is still America...Land of the Free...Home of the Brave...

Fuck that. This isn't a police state. Just because you've got a $5 piece of shiny metal on your chest you do not get to make the laws up as you go. LEO enforce the laws on the books not create new ones.

If Ive done nothing wrong, I dont have to tell you jack. You have no right to know my name.
Ever notice that every officer carries a notepad with them?
Ever wonder why that is?
When an officer is called they have to fill out a report about what happens. A report that becomes public record and is obtainable by FOIA requests. So an officer is called because you sat on a bench and he asks your name, IF he believes your story he leaves, writes his report "Call to scene. Met a young man. Introduced himself as "Dutch" confirmed ID. Could not confirm crime. Suspect released."...that is the language that a future potential employer may very well read on you. That may be the difference between getting that job and not.

We can debate semantics of could he have used better language. "Am I being detained?" etc. But word choice, or hell even quality of vocabulary should not determine freedom or incarceration.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I'm not sure I could disagree with anyone more completely than I do this post.

Not go jingoistic, but this is still America...Land of the Free...Home of the Brave...

Fuck that. This isn't a police state. Just because you've got a $5 piece of shiny metal on your chest you do not get to make the laws up as you go. LEO enforce the laws on the books not create new ones.

If Ive done nothing wrong, I dont have to tell you jack. You have no right to know my name.
Ever notice that every officer carries a notepad with them?
Ever wonder why that is?
When an officer is called they have to fill out a report about what happens. A report that becomes public record and is obtainable by FOIA requests. So an officer is called because you sat on a bench and he asks your name, IF he believes your story he leaves, writes his report "Call to scene. Met a young man. Introduced himself as "Dutch" confirmed ID. Could not confirm crime. Suspect released."...that is the language that a future potential employer may very well read on you. That may be the difference between getting that job and not.

We can debate semantics of could he have used better language. "Am I being detained?" etc. But word choice, or hell even quality of vocabulary should not determine freedom or incarceration.

Just out of curiosity, how many employers do you think go that deep on background checks?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Just out of curiosity, how many employers do you think go that deep on background checks?

There are certainly a number of them - anything security sensitive would likely uncover it.

Wouldn't have to be THAT deep though.

Could have been a FOIA for say all the records of the PD or whatever requested by a reporter, then they all get posted online as part of the sourcing for that...it gets indexed by Google and someone googles your name and boom.

Shit - we had a PI do a background check on a guy we were hiring (because he was borrowing some office space for us he did it basically for free) and he turned up the guy's fondness for pot back in his college days. Didn't stop us from hiring him, but it's not THAT hard.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Just out of curiosity, how many employers do you think go that deep on background checks?

Well, and this may apply only to me, when I did home tech a moderate portion of that business was home burglar alarm systems.

You probably wouldnt believe the amount of background checks that go into that. I mean sure it seams reasonable...for instance in NC any employee I hired I had to get a state level background check on every state he ever lived in plus any bordering state to any state he had lived in the past 5 years. (So for example the average NC resident I would need NC, SC, VA GA and TN.)

Now if you wanted to OWN an alarm systems business, which I did that required an FBI background check to apply. And if you were otherwise accepted they would then have a PI further research you prior to license issue.

Thats to put shitty burg systems in houses. Want to work in financial institutions...even worse.

So yeah...there are probably a lot of jobs you'd never expect that go that deep. When you get into construction, hell I did some work at a Google facility in NC...they background checked the fawk out of me...and theri security and admissions guy actually pulled me aside and said...BTW you have some stuff from when you were 13 that wasn't sealed may want to contact the state about that.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Subby

Bad cop example:

Cop Pointing Rifle At Ferguson Protestors: "I Will Fucking Kill You"

The headline can now be updated to ex-cop. He was given the option to resign or be fired.

Two Missouri police officers out of job after threatening Ferguson protestors - NY Daily News

[JediKooter]

Over/under on how soon they get hired by a different department?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Over/under on how soon they get hired by a different department?

Too much attention. I'd say never. Unless you count mall security.

I think there are plenty of bad apple cops out there. Still don't know if Wilson is one of them.

This case will help effect change. The need for cameras. The need for those bad apple cops to know that people are watching them and that there are repercussions for bad behavior.

That said, if you attack a cop, douche cop or not douche cop, you are taking your life into your own hands. Even if they have tasers, it's not proper protocol to use them if attacked because they have such a high miss rate. And in many states, they don't use tasers at all because a small percentage of the time they're lethal and they aren't a good self-defense choice. They are only useful as a weapon to subdue someone who is resisting arrest.

Again, we don't know if Brown attacked the cop. Hopefully, the witness statements and polygraphs, etc, will lead to a consistent narrative so that Missouri can decide fairly if Wilson needs to be prosecuted.

Mostly, my interactions with the police have been benign. A couple of traffic stops where the cop was definitely in full douche mode and anything but polite and contrite would have got me pulled out of the car and who knows. One time at a ballpark with a small crowd when a douche usher was trying to move people close together. I was sitting a few rows back, in the section I paid for, and didn't want to be herded forward. So he got a douche ballpark cop to back him up. That was bad (though not violent), and I ended up with free tickets to another game.

If you want to chalk up every negative interaction with police to racism, fine. I think there are plenty of cops who pull that shit with everyone, though. And some who need a good dose of cultural sensitivity (like not assuming everyone with baggy pants just robbed a store).

[Qrusher14242]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

That video is a prime example of what black people have to go through here in america on a daily basis. Everything he said was rational and not anywhere close to being out of place. Ironic that every single cop I saw in that video was old and white.

And here's...the rest of the story:

"The police report says the man was arrested on suspicion of disorderly conduct and obstructing the legal process. Here's the St. Paul PD's official version of events:
Squad 524, M. Johnson/ 526, B. Schmidt were called to the First National Bank Building (332 Minnesota) on a report of uncooperative male refusing to leave. Officers later made contact with this male... who refused to cooperate and would not give his name. He was later arrested for Trespassing, Disorderly Conduct, and Obstructing Legal Process (Citation #620900211109).

The man was charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct, and obstructing the legal process, but those charges were later dropped."

Oh noes!!! A black man is hanging out by a bank, he must be up to something. Welcome to america!!

Yup, scary to see what they have to go through on a daily basis....if he was white they wouldn't have called the police. If he had a gun or was causing a disturbance maybe i could see them being called, but just because he was sitting on a bench? jeez. Glad he was recording, those cops are scum.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Dutch

He should have cooperated with the bank security guard's first and then at the very least, the cops. Instead, he was a douche. There is no reason not to say your name to the cop who is arriving to resolve a confrontation between a bank security guard and a loitering citizen.

If I am waiting for my kids and a asshole security guard says, "No loitering" then I fucking move. Why? Not because I need t fight for my rights right there, but because I have a greater responsibility to my children. This moron obviously doesn't get that.

And when the cops come to resolve the bank complaint, which is a pretty serious deal sometimes, he is a douche to them too. Totally forgetting that he's got kids to pick up, he's turned into some moronic constitutional vigiliante. Man, fuck that dude, with all the bad shit that happens in America, and forcing bank guards and cops to deal with all that shit....he's going to target them for a confrontation about his civil liberty to loiter where he wants and whether to say his name or not? And put his children at risk to witness that?

To be clear, it's my impression, that his punishment wasn't caused by being black, it was caused by being an idiot.

You have to be kidding me. He is under NO obligation to give the cops information if he wasn't doing anything wrong. This isn't a fucking police state. Again, he was doing nothing wrong. The cops are completely overstepping their authority and your solution is to let them do it? You would have complied? Guess what. That wouldn't have happened to you, because no one gives a fuck if a middle aged white guy is hanging around outside a bank.

That patronizing fucking police officer just made it worse. She did everything but call him boy, for christ's sake.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Subby

You would have complied? Guess what. That wouldn't have happened to you, because no one gives a fuck if a middle aged white guy is hanging around outside a bank.

Yeah, I think that's the key point... Whenever the police have ever asked me to do anything in the past, I've done exactly what they've said. It's been a very few times that's ever happened. If it was happening to me on a regular basis when I felt like I was doing nothing to warrant it? I'd probably lose my cool at some point, hopefully that wouldn't lead to me being tasered or worse.

[Dutch]

I'm not sure how relevant me being white is to my credibility, but shit, I've been detained and questioned a few times back in my day! I wasn't a bad dude, but I found myself in a few bad situations that let me try out different approaches of how to interact with the cops. Now granted I never was just chillin on a park bench, but regardless of how I ended up conversing with police, I can definitely attest that there are good ways and bad ways.

You and I have been out in the world a bit, we've both seen cops handle all kinds of situations and we've both seen people, of all colors and races and backgrounds handle interactions with cops differently, so I'm sure you agree that there are multiple ways to handle an encounter with police beyond refusing to state your name. At any rate, if you are suggesting I have no credibility (simply because I'm currently a white middle aged man) to suggest he handled it wrong, then it's only fair that you have none to suggest he did.

If cops approach you as a suspect of a complaint from a bank (and I would assume it's from the bank security team) then my recommendation is that you should be cooperative and answer simple questions like "What's your name?" And speaking as a father, if he was waiting for his children, then he absolutely must cooperate. Nobody can say absolutely that all cops are simply out to get black people, but you never know when the cops are just waiting for you to be a douche. Be smart and pick your battles wisely is all I'm saying. He could've handled the situation much better and didn't, probably because some white dude on a message board told him he should plead the fifth from jump street with cops. Yay internet logic!

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by cartman

The headline can now be updated to ex-cop. He was given the option to resign or be fired.

Two Missouri police officers out of job after threatening Ferguson protestors - NY Daily News

Guy should be going to jail for assault with a deadly weapon. But of course, since he was a cop, he'll just get hired by some other force in the next year.

[Dutch]

Are Police Bigoted? - The New York Times

Some interesting studies dug up by the NY Times. The results are not terribly surprising to me, but they may be to some of you.

[DaddyTorgo]

2 more

Originally Posted by http://www.dallasobserver.com/2001-01-18/news/attitude-check/

Late one night three and a half years ago in Kingwood, an affluent, newly annexed area far north of downtown Houston, a resident called police to complain about a black male running around wildly in his underpants and boots. An officer found the guy and flagged him over to the patrol car for a little chat. But the man refused and kept running. Two other officers showed up and demanded that the man talk to them. He refused again. They cuffed him and put him in the car. They demanded that he identify himself, and he refused to give his name, so they busted him for failure to ID.
When it was all sorted out, the man really hadn't been running around in his underwear. He was running around in his running shorts, T-shirt, and running shoes. He was in the area because he lived there. And he knew a lot about the law, because he was a federal judge.

Now for the pop quiz: In this particular real-life scenario in which an American citizen was arrested for failure to ID, which part of the situation did the cops get right?

You got it! He was, as the facts proved, black.

But here is the good news about Houston: Eventually the city attorney and the Houston police chief and the Houston City Council all stood up in the council chamber in front of the cameras, hiked up their trousers, raised a hand, and said, "My bad." Last November the Houston City Council agreed to pay federal immigration Judge Jimmie L. Benton, 46, damages of $55,000 for his wrongful arrest on a charge of failure to ID. An assistant chief of police told reporters, "They had reasonable cause to stop him, but they had no probable cause for arrest."

And Houston City Attorney Anthony Hall said, "The mere failure to identify yourself to a police officer is not an offense in this state."

Originally Posted by https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10152352402863207&substory_index=0&id=543298206

WHEN YOU "FIT THE DESCRIPTION"!
It’s one of those things that you hear about, but never think it would happen to you.

On Friday afternoon, August 22nd around 5:20pm, while innocently walking by myself from a restaurant on Wilshire Blvd, to my car up LaCienega Blvd my freedom was taken from me by the Beverly Hills Police Department.

Within seconds, I was detained and told to sit on the curb of the very busy street, during rush hour traffic.

Within minutes, I was surrounded by 6 police cars, handcuffed very tightly, fully searched for weapons, and placed back on the curb.

Within an hour, I was transported to the Beverly Hills Police Headquarters, photographed, finger printed and put under a $100,000 bail and accused of armed bank robbery and accessory to robbery of a Citibank.

Within an evening, I was wrongly arrested, locked up, denied a phone call, denied explanation of charges against me, denied ever being read my rights, denied being able to speak to my lawyer for a lengthy time, and denied being told that my car had been impounded…..All because I was mis-indentified as the wrong “tall, bald head, black male,” ... "fitting the description."

I get that the Beverly Hills Police Department didn’t know at the time that I was a law abiding citizen of the community and that in my 51 years of existence, had never been handcuffed or arrested for any reason. All they saw, was someone fitting the description. Doesn't matter if he's a "Taye Diggs BLACK", a "LL Cool J BLACK", or "a Drake BLACK"

I get that the Beverly Hills Police Department didn’t know that I was an award nominated and awarding winning business professional, most recently being recognized by the Los Angeles Business Journal at their Nonprofit & Corporate Citizenship Awards. They didn't need to because, they saw someone fitting the description.

I get that the Beverly Hills Police Department didn’t know that I was a well educated American citizen that had received a BS in Electrical Engineering from the University of Southern California, an MBA from Indiana University (including a full Consortium Fellowship to business school) and an Executive Leadership Certificate from Harvard Business School. Hey, I was "tall", "bald", a "male" and "black", so I fit the description.

I get that the Beverly Hills Police Department didn’t know that I was a Consultant for the NAACP, a film and tv producer, a previous VP of Marketing for a wireless application company, VP of Integrated Promotions for a marketing agency, ran Community Affairs for the Atlanta Hawks, was the Deputy Director of Olympic Village Operations for the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games, was a Test/Quality/Mfg Engineering Manager for IBM and was a Bond Trader on Wall street. Surely, folks that fit the description wouldn't qualify as any of those.

I get that the Beverly Hills Police Department didn’t know that throughout my entire life I have been very active in serving the communities that I have lived in, including Chapter President and National PR Chair for NSBE, a USC Student Senator, a USC Trojan Knight, a USC Engineering Student Council Member, a USC Black Students Council Member, and a Resident Assistant; as well as a founding board member of the RTP NBMBAA, a member of Durham County Transportation Advisory Board, Durham City / County Planning Commission, Atlanta House of Love for the Homeless Board, Cobb County Transportation Advisory Board, Georgia CASA Board, United Way of Greater Atlanta VIP Selection Committee, Jomandi Theater Board, Silver Lake Film Festival Board, Downtown LA Film Festival Board, Chaka Khan Foundation Fundraising Dinner Committee, and the USC Black Alumni Association Board. Nawl, not a "black male", especially a "tall, bald" one.

I get that the Beverly Hills Police Department didn’t know that just hours earlier, I was at one of the finest hotels in their city, handling celebrity talent at a Emmy Awards Gifting Suite, as part of business as usual, and, invited to attend a VIP Emmy pre-party that very night in their city. The guy doing that, just DON"T fit the description.

What I don’t get………WHAT I DON”T GET, is, why, during the 45 minutes that they had me on the curb, handcuffed in the sun, before they locked me up and took away my civil rights, that they could not simply review the ATM and bank’s HD video footage to clearly see that the “tall, bald headed, black male”… did not fit MY description.

Why, at 11:59pm (approximately 6 hours later), was the video footage reviewed only after my request to the Lead Detective for the Beverly Hills Police Department and an FBI Agent to do so, and, after being directly accused by another FBI Special Agent of “…going in and out of the bank several times complaining about the ATM Machine to cause a distraction…” thereby aiding in the armed robbery attempt of a bank that I never heard of, or ever been to; and within 10 minutes……10 MINUTES, my lawyer was told that I was being release because it was clear that it was not me.

The sad thing is, prior to my freedom being taken from me for an easily proven crime I did not commit, I was walking back to my car, by myself, because I needed to check my parking meter, so that I wouldn’t get a ticket and break the law. In fact, if it wasn’t for a text message that I was responding to, I would have actually been running up LaCienega Blvd when the first Beverly Hills Police Officer approached me. Running!

I want to thank GOD, Robin Lola Harrison of the NAACP Hollywood Bureau, Robert Dowdy and Attorney Jaaye Person-Lynn , without whom, I am certain that I would still be locked up in the custody of the Beverly Hills Police Department. Based on comments made by a Beverly Hills Police Officer during my booking, and an FBI Special Agent, it appeared that they had tried and convicted me.

To everyone, especial black males (regardless of height, hair style or particular shade of "black") - Hari Williams, Michael Marcel, Reginald L Shaw, Shawn Carter Peterson, Devon Libran, Aaron D Spears, Cedric Sanders, Cornelius Smith Jr, Catfish Jean, Ashford Thomas, Drew McCaskill, Carlton Jordan, Jawn Murray, AS Lee, Bertrand L Roberson Sr, Deron Benjamin, Hawk Oau, James Alan Belk, Juhahn Jones, Darryl Dunning II, Darrin Dewitt Henson, Stephen Bishop, Logan Alexander, Brandon Dmico Anderson, Jon Covington, Lamar Stewart, David Mitchell, Gerald Andre Radford, Gerald Edwin Rush II, Gerald Yates, etal, - I have always stayed as far away from being on the wrong side of the law as much as possible; so please, be careful. If something like this can happen to ME, it can certainly happen to ANYONE!

Time has come for a change in the way OUR law enforcement officers "serve and protect" us.

We all do not, FIT THE DESCRIPTION.

Peace and Blessings..

[Lathum]

So we have these neighbors down the street who enjoy setting off fireworks. Tonight they were doing it literally in the middle of the road around 9 PM and it was really loud. Scared my kids and set off my dog,thus not allowing my kids to get back to sleep. I live in a quiet suburb with lots of families. It really pissed me off so I called the police.

About an hour later the responding officer calls me and said they were a bit confrontational and were video taping the interaction. I wonder if they would have been the same way prior to Ferguson.

The officer told me at the end they apologized for being a disturbance and were surprised.Apparently they have had several complaints in the past according to the officer.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Too much attention. I'd say never. Unless you count mall security.

People's memories are short here in this country. I think the 20 year vet may just retire and become a Fox news consultant like Mark Furhman did after the OJ case.

I think there are plenty of bad apple cops out there. Still don't know if Wilson is one of them.

This case will help effect change. The need for cameras. The need for those bad apple cops to know that people are watching them and that there are repercussions for bad behavior.

Honestly, I don't think there are a lot of bad cops, but, there is decades of bad policing policies & a culture of protecting their own, that allow bad cops to continue being bad cops. I agree, I think all cops should have to wear cameras. I think that would help them in the long run.

That said, if you attack a cop, douche cop or not douche cop, you are taking your life into your own hands. Even if they have tasers, it's not proper protocol to use them if attacked because they have such a high miss rate. And in many states, they don't use tasers at all because a small percentage of the time they're lethal and they aren't a good self-defense choice. They are only useful as a weapon to subdue someone who is resisting arrest.

Again, we don't know if Brown attacked the cop. Hopefully, the witness statements and polygraphs, etc, will lead to a consistent narrative so that Missouri can decide fairly if Wilson needs to be prosecuted.

Absolutely agree with you. Don't attack a cop...period. However, as we have seen in this country, over and over and over again, if you are black, you don't have to attack a cop to be killed by a cop. Another problem here with law enforcement, is they go to deadly force first. If you have an unarmed person resisting or attacking, there's stun guns, batons & fists/feet you can use. It just seems that the deadly option is almost always considered first. I also partially blame the media with how things like this are reported. Their, "We brought it to you first" mantra to try and one up the other news outlets, really is just, horrible. Words fail me at how horrendous that is and one of the main reasons I haven't watched the news in years. I don't care if you're first, I want accurate and objective information.

Mostly, my interactions with the police have been benign. A couple of traffic stops where the cop was definitely in full douche mode and anything but polite and contrite would have got me pulled out of the car and who knows. One time at a ballpark with a small crowd when a douche usher was trying to move people close together. I was sitting a few rows back, in the section I paid for, and didn't want to be herded forward. So he got a douche ballpark cop to back him up. That was bad (though not violent), and I ended up with free tickets to another game.

So have all of mine...but, I'm white. When a cop is behind me when I'm driving, my first thought isn't, "What now?" or "Here we go again", it's let me get over and let them pass. It's just the way it is in this country. Is everyone a victim, is it always racism? Heck no, it's just that there is obviously a different set of 'guidelines' depending on your race in this country.

If you want to chalk up every negative interaction with police to racism, fine. I think there are plenty of cops who pull that shit with everyone, though. And some who need a good dose of cultural sensitivity (like not assuming everyone with baggy pants just robbed a store).

I don't know what will change this. You would think that just treating people with respect, should be enough, but, it obviously is not. There's too much 'tribalism' in this country. If someone looks different, talks different, dresses different, then they are looked upon with suspicion or they are beneath you, etc...it reminds me of a caveman like mentality where instead of trying to understand, you just beat it with your club until it stops doing whatever it was that it was doing.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by cartman

The headline can now be updated to ex-cop. He was given the option to resign or be fired.

Two Missouri police officers out of job after threatening Ferguson protestors - NY Daily News

Not good enough. Pointing a firearm at a crowd of people who are peacefully protesting should be unacceptable and should result in prosecution.

The only reason they did anything with this guy is because he was caught on camera yelling he would kill people. I bet there was a debate about doing anything, which begrudgingly ended with letting him resign.

There were other pictures of cops pointing fully automatic machine guns at the crowd. How any of you can be alright with that is pretty alarming. Don't think your nice neighborhood or social group is immune. It may feel highly unlikely, but at some point it can be your butt too.

If you accept this crap it will become the norm. Just look at how the cops were blindly shooting at random cars during the Chris Dorner thing in Southern California. Guess how many of them were prosecuted?

Instead of "if it saves one cop", how about "if it saves one citizen"?

[RainMaker]

Pretty sure it constitutes aggravated assault in every state. The fact it's on video should make it a relatively easy case to prosecute.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Instead of "if it saves one cop", how about "if it saves one citizen"?

That's what doesn't sit well with me either. The idea that the safety - and life - of a cop is more important than that of the average citizen. Yes, being an officer is a risky proposition. But I thought that was the point of the job - you are assuming that risk as to protect the citizenry, to deflect it from them to yourself. I won't profess that that is in any way easy. But bad things happen when you go spraying bullets every which way.

"Based on our viewing of the footage, the officers had no choice other than to respond (the way) they did," Schmaderer said, anticipating questions about why so many shots were fired.

If you're shooting at a suspect who is trying to get away...maybe letting him get away is an option?

[RainMaker]

It really isn't that risky of a profession.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

So... has there been any updates on the investigation?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

****Holding breath waiting for calls for no justice, no peace****

Gang viciously assaulting couple in Missouri caught on camera | Mail Online

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

The idea that the safety - and life - of a cop is more important than that of the average citizen.

The rationale -- one I wholeheartedly subscribe to -- is that anybody who will attack a member of law enforcement despite knowing the hell that can bring down is someone who has no hesitation about attacking anyone. Those are the most dangerous amongst the various animals we've got walking the streets.

If you're shooting at a suspect who is trying to get away...maybe letting him get away is an option?

And if "letting him get away" is an option then maybe you've given up on apprehending him (or her) before you ever started.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

****Holding breath waiting for calls for no justice, no peace****

Gang viciously assaulting couple in Missouri caught on camera | Mail Online

I don't know how one could possibly think there are still significant racial divides in this country with posts like this

SI

[Dutch]

Goddamn. Those aren't average citizens if you ask me. Those are dangerous citizens. I'll always side with protecting cops if this is the type of dangerous citizens they have to deal with during confrontations. Fuck 'em.

[JPhillips]

I think we can agree that all black people act like this.

And all white people are meth users.

And all priests are child molesters.

Etc.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

****Holding breath waiting for calls for no justice, no peace****

Gang viciously assaulting couple in Missouri caught on camera | Mail Online

Are you fucking kidding me? I think you jumped the racist shark with this post.

[Toddzilla]

another step closer to putting the murderer behind bars...

hxxp://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/workers-who-were-witnesses-provide-new-perspective-on-michael-brown/article_14a3e5f8-6c6a-5deb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think we can agree that all black people act like this.

And all white people are meth users.

And all priests are child molesters.

Etc.

And all cops are crooks.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dutch

And all cops are crooks.

And all non-white persons are innocent victims of the evil machine.

[NobodyHere]

And every Seahawk takes steroids.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

And every Seahawk takes steroids.

Nah. A lot of them are just annoying for the company they keep.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Dutch

And all cops are crooks.

The difference is I'm not saying that because some cops are bad, all of them must be. What the kids in the video did is abhorrent, but it has no bearing on anyone but them. It doesn't make the residents of Ferguson more or less aggrieved.

The two situations are entirely separate.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And if "letting him get away" is an option then maybe you've given up on apprehending him (or her) before you ever started.

My issue is with the idea that they have to be apprehended at all costs - bystanders be damned. Cameraman (or random diner) shot? Hey, at least it wasn't a cop. Killed crossing a street or driving through an intersection during a chase? Hey man - public safety.

Also, these aren't animals. The crazy woman wielding a hammer isn't an animal. The disturbed individual waving around a knife isn't an animal. Someone stealing cigars or cash from a till or just walking around with a toy gun isn't an animal. It's also not impossible to bring them down non-lethally. There was a guy who beheaded a woman in London and was thought to be brandishing a machete...this one, I wouldn't argue too hard for his humanity. They still apprehended him alive.

I'm assuming you're at least consistent though? Cliven Bundy and his backers should have been executed on the spot by the feds, yes?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

And every Seahawk takes steroids.

That was low. Bengals players feel left out.

[Karlifornia]

See, I'm black, and I don't condone what those assholes in that video did. They should be locked up. The problem I have, is that some people will go to any length to condone behavior in the other direction. It is ignorant, disgusting, and sad to act as if the black experience here is the same as the white experience. Does that excuse any violence or mistreatment of whites by blacks? No. Would it be nice to have some of y'all giving us the benefit of the doubt?

The only time some of you even give a damn is when we shut our mouths and score touchdowns for you.

[Blackadar]

The only reason to post that link was to make a false equivalence and a horrid one at that. Given the races of the victims and perpetrators, it's not even a thinly veiled attempt at racism but a blatant one. I'm very disappointed in some people here and, unfortunately, have grown to expect it from others.

[Dutch]

Since you have called me a racist a time or two, I guess I get swept up into that bucket. For what it's worth, I want nothing more than racism to go away forever. So if my disagreements have branded me that way yet again, then I apologize for not being smarter in the way I debate. My only true valuable addition to this thread is that it looks to me like the residents of Ferguson aren't pulling their own weight. Do police need better training? Yes. Do they need all this military gear? No. Do they have authorities granted to them that the average citizen don't? Yes. Should they? Yes. Do citizens have the right to not talk to the police? Yes. Do citizens have an obligation to be uncooperative with police? No. Is the ensuing conflict between uncooperation and additional authority racist? No.

Anyway, I get the concern, I truly do...but I think its still okay to discuss all angles. I want to hear others opinions afterall, that's why we are here.

And yes, that video is irrelevant...but so is the Boston Tea Party...so it goes both ways.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

The only reason to post that link was to make a false equivalence and a horrid one at that. Given the races of the victims and perpetrators, it's not even a thinly veiled attempt at racism but a blatant one. I'm very disappointed in some people here and, unfortunately, have grown to expect it from others.

I get tired of people telling me that, despite repeated instances just like the one depicted in this video, that I can't be pissed that this kind of stuff is happening to people. We should be pissed off that these people were attacked, right? We should be pissed off that the act happened, not the race that was involved, right? Responses to my post only proved my point of posting it.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I get tired of people telling me that, despite repeated instances just like the one depicted in this video, that I can't say that black people have it coming to them.

The problem is that this is how it comes off in the context of the thread.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

The problem is that this is how it comes off in the context of the thread.

This, combined with his earlier posts in the thread. But his entire posting history on this board shows how tone deaf he is.

[Lathum]

sheesh, this thread is getting ugly.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I'm assuming you're at least consistent though? Cliven Bundy and his backers should have been executed on the spot by the feds, yes?

If you go back to that discussion, I'm nearly* certain you'll find me saying something close to that very thing.


*I know I said it on FB because I remember the heat I took for it from some quarters. That makes it seem pretty likely I said roughly that here as well

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

The problem is that this is how it comes off in the context of the thread.

You are exactly right. Far too many people take that angle. And when that changes, we've made progress as a society. Hate the action, not the race.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If you go back to that discussion, I'm nearly* certain you'll find me saying something close to that very thing.


*I know I said it on FB because I remember the heat I took for it from some quarters. That makes it seem pretty likely I said roughly that here as well

Yes, yes you did.