Werewolf LXXV - Rise of the Great Old Ones -Students Win!!!!

[RendeR]

I'm going to take a bit of a lead role here, I really want to lynch eaglefan. it gives us cut and dried answers on TWO other players that nothing about the alan/hoops/racer debate will give us. No matter who we lynch in the latter group we still have very SPECIFIC lack of evidence issues.

By taking Eagle down tonight we clarify the position of two other players RIGHT NOW. No muss no fuss.

Please vote eaglefan, Thank You.


This has been a community outreach announcement.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

If hoops is a wolf along with alan they would know about the scan if alan was told. Of course hoops could claim knowledge of the scan as he would be backed up by racer if racer chose to reveal. The curious thing is that hoops immediately outed racer as the seer.

Take a look at how the day started and tell me that you don't see something fishy between alan and hoops.

Would you feel better if I gave you the Jose Canseco answer to your questions about me?

"It will all be revealed when the book comes out"

Of course you want to know the answers now, but my secrecy is entirely to keep people like you (presumed wolves) guessing. You, Alan, and Telle have all pressed me on this - I have zero incentive to help you with information for night kills.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Not the worst thing in the world, but since I have a PM that shows me Alan is bad I'm inclined to treat that as absolute truth while Mrs Schmidty's "two for the price of one" is relative truth to me for now.

Also, I don't think there is much reason to think that Eagle is going to be able to run another conversion tonight if we leave him until tomorrow. I guess I could be wrong on this, but there has only been one game I've seen that allowed back-to-back conversions. That was Schmidty's "Thing" game and I don't think he would go to that mechanic a second time.

I guess my thought is that not all wolves are created equal, in terms of abilities and players. I don't know which one is the better choice if they are both wolves, which leads me back to "pick the wolf I know".

If other people aren't going that way I understand, but you won't see me changing votes today.

My biggest worry is that EagleFan is the brutal wolf. He's the one who performed an action -- it's typcial wolf strategy to have the brutal be the one to do stuff.

[Passacaglia]

Then again, EagleFan might have been the wolf that can do conversions instead of kills.

[EagleFan]

It won't be helping me. I can only do night scans, and then only once every other night.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

My biggest worry is that EagleFan is the brutal wolf. He's the one who performed an action -- it's typcial wolf strategy to have the brutal be the one to do stuff.

What makes you think he is the brutal?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm still sticking to my story, just was hoping now that you have some breathing room with Mrs.Schmidty's reveal that you could be a little more truthful about your account of things is all. You know as well as I do that you don't know one way or another if I am a wolf or villager, it was a suspicion I had this morning but only became evident after a few other things happened today.

Heck, if you actually did tell the truth, I might even gurantuee you that I won't vote for you the rest of the game.. but obviously there is something about your role that you don't want the rest of the students to know

I assume you will share what you think you know about Hoops and his role?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Would you feel better if I gave you the Jose Canseco answer to your questions about me?

"It will all be revealed when the book comes out"

Of course you want to know the answers now, but my secrecy is entirely to keep people like you (presumed wolves) guessing. You, Alan, and Telle have all pressed me on this - I have zero incentive to help you with information for night kills.

If i had to guess the wolves next move, I am guessing that they know I am not one of them, are not sure what to make of Racer or Hoops and are upset about Mrs.Schmidty's reveal.

I would guess they don't care which of me, you or Racer die from the lynchmob as long as it is not one of them and will leave it to the students to figure out. They'll likely focus on Mrs.Schmidty and whomever else they think to target that might be their seer.

You pretty much already admitted Hoops that you know I'm not one of the wolves, you just consider me bad because I'm not on the same team as you. I've figured out what you are.. have you figured out what I am yet?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Oh I understand completely that there are times we will be on the same team. That in no way means I will ever trust you until PROVEN trustworthy =)

Nothing against you personally , but you've earned every ounce of my distrust.

Currently I'm leaning away from you on this, but it doesn't mean I'd choose you over anyone else in a 1-1 vote off right now =)

Just take it as a sign of resept and accept that you will probably NEVER sway me to take your word over anyone elses anytime soon.

Would it have helped if I had made it out to dinner when you were in Chicago?

I hope that I can convince you to take my side in a vote when it has big-time implications for our joint team. If we have two (three) wolves in the mix then this doesn't really qualify as such.

"Resept", to me, would mean that you hate following my lead but you are pretty sure I make sense and will do it against your natural instincts not to.

[Axxon]

Remind me again, what is the brutal wolf?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

What makes you think he is the brutal?

If Mrs. Schmidty's story is true, then EagleFan was the one doing the conversion -- typically when the wolves choose someone to perform an action, it's the brutal, so that if he is seen, he gets a 1-for-1 trade.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Remind me again, what is the brutal wolf?

A wolf that can kill someone else at their choice when they are killed.

[Axxon]

OK, so if we lynch him, that's bad. Gotcha. They can only do it once though right and do they get to choose who to lynch or is it random?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

You pretty much already admitted Hoops that you know I'm not one of the wolves, you just consider me bad because I'm not on the same team as you. I've figured out what you are.. have you figured out what I am yet?

1.) I'm pretty sure you haven't figured out what I am yet, but send me a PM when you are dead and I'll let you know if you were right
2.) I haven't admitted anything about you not being a wolf. I've seen one person scan bad so far (you) and it didnt' call out R'Lyeh by name. But black auras and waves of nausea aren't exactly the type of thing that makes you a guy that I want to hang out with at parties.

I'm hoping to start learning about the correlation between wolves and the PM messages with your lynch today.

[Axxon]

OH, it's not a trade they just get one more guy. Gotcha.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Axxon

OK, so if we lynch him, that's bad. Gotcha. They can only do it once though right and do they get to choose who to lynch or is it random?

One time, they pick. That is the standard way of doing that role.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

1.) I'm pretty sure you haven't figured out what I am yet, but send me a PM when you are dead and I'll let you know if you were right
2.) I haven't admitted anything about you not being a wolf. I've seen one person scan bad so far (you) and it didnt' call out R'Lyeh by name. But black auras and waves of nausea aren't exactly the type of thing that makes you a guy that I want to hang out with at parties.

I'm hoping to start learning about the correlation between wolves and the PM messages with your lynch today.

Unfortunately that won't be happening at all, since I'm not a wolf.

[Axxon]

VOTE EAGLESFAN

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I'm going to take a bit of a lead role here, I really want to lynch eaglefan. it gives us cut and dried answers on TWO other players that nothing about the alan/hoops/racer debate will give us. No matter who we lynch in the latter group we still have very SPECIFIC lack of evidence issues.

By taking Eagle down tonight we clarify the position of two other players RIGHT NOW. No muss no fuss.

Please vote eaglefan, Thank You.


This has been a community outreach announcement.

Technically, if you lynch Alan and he is a wolf then you should feel pretty good about me and Racer. Paranoia might keep you from doing so, but most of the time outing a wolf counts as a check mark in the good column.

Similarly, if you were to wrongfully lynch either me or Racer and have us show up as villagers that should define the other two people (Alan = bad, me/Racer = good).

So I think it is six one way and a half dozen the other. Of course, it is a little too convenient for me to think this, right?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Axxon

OH, it's not a trade they just get one more guy. Gotcha.

It's usually a bad thing when the seer is known as there is no defense for that kill. At least the wolves have to role the dice to try a night kill of the seer.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Hoops: I hope you understand when I say this: "I will NEVER under penalty of having my nads ripped up and out of my body via insertion of a red hot wire through my NOSE...EVER trust you in a 1-1 choice."

Alan: I trust you only a cold wire better than I trust hoops.

Racer: Why did you choose to scan ME on day 1? its an odd choice at best when there are far better players available to choose for a night 1 scan.

Frankly, I'm looking at the hoops/alan mess and going W T F? Then Mrs. S comes along with her very elegantly written story and drops two more wolves into the mix. Either we're VERY lucky, or we're so overmatched by the wolf players right now that we might as well just give in and suckle at Cthulu's teat.

Lets do this: Lynch Eaglefan, this will give us definitive answers on Mrs. S and Telle.

We can then let the BG protect Racer (if he is indeed the seer) and get a scan on hoops or alan. Tomorrow we see where all the fur flies and we move on from there.

Make sense?


UNVOTE RACER
VOTE EAGLEFAN

Multiple players were talking about you as a potential wolf. I wanted to get a better feel for those players.

[hoopsguy]

Updated to reflect the earlier Chief vote that I had missed:

Alan - Hoops (694), Racer (724), KWhit (779), Olie (852), MS (895), Path (898)
Eagle - Chief (689), Alan (922), Purdue (976), RendeR (977), Axxon (1018)
Hoops - Pass (806), Telle (855)
Mrs Schmidty - Eagle (935)

Lets make sure we avoid a tie here, OK?

[Axxon]

So getting rid of the Brutal Wolf early is the best move. Gotcha.

This game is way more intense than the last one. Gotta admit I'm hooked.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Updated to reflect the earlier Chief vote that I had missed:

Alan - Hoops (694), Racer (724), KWhit (779), Olie (852), MS (895), Path (898)
Eagle - Chief (689), Alan (922), Purdue (976), RendeR (977), Axxon (1018)
Hoops - Pass (806), Telle (855)
Mrs Schmidty - Eagle (935)

Lets make sure we avoid a tie here, OK?

Damnit, heinz isn't in this game, is he?

[oliegirl]

UNVOTE ALANT
VOTE EAGLEFAN

Willing to give the Hoops/Alan thing a night to see what happens...going with my gut that eliminating EF at this point is the most logical way to go.

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, it really set off alarm bells for me yesterday when Alan was suggesting you and Racer were the people he didn't trust. I'm extremely glad that Racer followed through with a scan on him.

I just didn't think I had enough juice to lead a weekend charge on Alan without revealing what I knew about you and Racer at that point. I didn't think the value was high enough for a 3 man COT that early in the game while outing the seer.

I don't know how hard I would have pushed this today if Racer had not scanned Alan. But it would have been at the forefront of my play.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Axxon

So getting rid of the Brutal Wolf early is the best move. Gotcha.

This game is way more intense than the last one. Gotta admit I'm hooked.

Glad that you are enjoying the ride. It is always fun for those of us who are regulars to have someone step in, play well, and want to keep showing up for a few more games.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Axxon

So getting rid of the Brutal Wolf early is the best move. Gotcha.

This game is way more intense than the last one. Gotta admit I'm hooked.

No -- ideally, we want to get the brutal wolf last, so we don't lose any villagers.

[Passacaglia]

Oh, and I'm glad you're enjoying the intense game!

[hoopsguy]

If we want to test Mrs Schmidty's claim I would rather see us go with Telle than EagleFan. I can't believe that the convert would be a brutal wolf, but either EF or Alan could have that role.

Don't get me wrong - I want to lynch Alan today and sort the rest out first. But if people are convinced to go an alternate route then that is who I would test to help ensure Racer is around tomorrow.

Plus Alan didn't pimp Telle as the alternate candidate.

[hoopsguy]

Er, sort out the rest later (not first).

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

No -- ideally, we want to get the brutal wolf last, so we don't lose any villagers.

Ok, I can understand that but I can also understand not wanting to get the seer killed. Between the two, getting him last is best but if it's still early, like it is now and if EF is the brutal, isn't it worth it to take him out of the equation now?

What happens btw if it's the brutal vs the hunter as the last two?

[hoopsguy]

Probably depends on the moderator, but I would say that Hunter wins if it was my game.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If we want to test Mrs Schmidty's claim I would rather see us go with Telle than EagleFan. I can't believe that the convert would be a brutal wolf, but either EF or Alan could have that role.

Don't get me wrong - I want to lynch Alan today and sort the rest out first. But if people are convinced to go an alternate route then that is who I would test to help ensure Racer is around tomorrow.

Plus Alan didn't pimp Telle as the alternate candidate.

That's what I've been thinking as well.

[Passacaglia]

About Telle, at least.

[Passacaglia]

Let's do it.

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY
VOTE TELLE

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

RendeR, it really set off alarm bells for me yesterday when Alan was suggesting you and Racer were the people he didn't trust. I'm extremely glad that Racer followed through with a scan on him.

I just didn't think I had enough juice to lead a weekend charge on Alan without revealing what I knew about you and Racer at that point. I didn't think the value was high enough for a 3 man COT that early in the game while outing the seer.

I don't know how hard I would have pushed this today if Racer had not scanned Alan. But it would have been at the forefront of my play.

This all makes perfectly good sense, but for tonight's vote, you/alan/racer is simply still far too muddied to sort out with one lynch.

We as a village can settle the real sides for 3 players tonight, even you have to admit that is the most practical choice. It gives racer another night to scan at least, perhaps more.

I'd like you to move your vote to EF with me hoops. I simply can't understand not taking the simplest MOST difinitive action we can when there is so much confusion still amognst the three of you.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

RendeR, it really set off alarm bells for me yesterday when Alan was suggesting you and Racer were the people he didn't trust. I'm extremely glad that Racer followed through with a scan on him.

I just didn't think I had enough juice to lead a weekend charge on Alan without revealing what I knew about you and Racer at that point. I didn't think the value was high enough for a 3 man COT that early in the game while outing the seer.

I don't know how hard I would have pushed this today if Racer had not scanned Alan. But it would have been at the forefront of my play.

Making sure that we modify our history books accordingly:

What Hoops means is it alarmed him that I was pressuring his teammate over the weekend and they decided to try to take me out before I caused too much harm!

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Let's do it.

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY
VOTE TELLE

Sure, I'll go that route. one is as good as the other for me.


Unvote Eaglefan
vote telle

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, I would be more inclined to move to Telle than EagleFan if I'm picking between people scanned by Mrs Schmidty. Sorry if accelerating her removal from the game leads to you sleeping on the couch tonight.

I still would rather vote for the 100% wolf. I think you had something in your signature about this notion at one point?

[Alan T]

Well, as much fun as today has been.. and as much as it has helped my post count, I unfortunately must leave work soon.. Today will be considered a fairly non-productive work day for me!

I'm glad that my fellow students are seeing through Hoopsguy's lies enough to at least give me a few more days here while we kill off wolves. I'm hoping that those with roles will make sure to get to the bottom of me vs Hoopsguy vs Racer so when it resurfaces in a few days, you'll have a better understanding of the truth, and not have to rely only on who is the better salesperson.

Trust my words, Hoopsguy is not a student.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Let's do it.

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY
VOTE TELLE

My only issue with this is the possibility of multiple conversions. I've run it that way in the past (if the number of wolves is below X then you may try) Telle if indeed is a ocnverted wolf really offers no other threat than being a simple wolf, where as if we leave the converting wolf alive it could add more problems down the line.

Voting EF is still making more sense and is more practical in the long term.

Even if he IS the Brutal on TOP of being able to convert someone (which I find unlikely at best) Its still better to get rid of him either way.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

RendeR, I would be more inclined to move to Telle than EagleFan if I'm picking between people scanned by Mrs Schmidty. Sorry if accelerating her removal from the game leads to you sleeping on the couch tonight.

I still would rather vote for the 100% wolf. I think you had something in your signature about this notion at one point?

That makes NO real sense. If you're picking between the people Mrs. S outed in her reveal then you almost HAVe to go with Eaglefan, you know the guy who DID THE KILLING?

You're not making much sense with this argument Hoops.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RendeR

My only issue with this is the possibility of multiple conversions. I've run it that way in the past (if the number of wolves is below X then you may try) Telle if indeed is a ocnverted wolf really offers no other threat than being a simple wolf, where as if we leave the converting wolf alive it could add more problems down the line.

Voting EF is still making more sense and is more practical in the long term.

Even if he IS the Brutal on TOP of being able to convert someone (which I find unlikely at best) Its still better to get rid of him either way.

I don't find it unlikely. I think the rule could be that they can try to convert N3 or later, and that any of them can do it. So EF wouldn't have a specific convert ability -- he'd just be the brutal.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

RendeR, I would be more inclined to move to Telle than EagleFan if I'm picking between people scanned by Mrs Schmidty. Sorry if accelerating her removal from the game leads to you sleeping on the couch tonight.

I still would rather vote for the 100% wolf. I think you had something in your signature about this notion at one point?

I have to question the "sleeping on the couch" comment, why on earth would Werewolf effect that at all? You really need to stop trying to fluff up your posts with inane comments. you're making yourself look worse and worse.

In a choice between telle and Eaglefan its a no brainer, you take out the ATTACKING WOLF first. The convert-ee can wait.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well, as much fun as today has been.. and as much as it has helped my post count, I unfortunately must leave work soon.. Today will be considered a fairly non-productive work day for me!

I'm glad that my fellow students are seeing through Hoopsguy's lies enough to at least give me a few more days here while we kill off wolves. I'm hoping that those with roles will make sure to get to the bottom of me vs Hoopsguy vs Racer so when it resurfaces in a few days, you'll have a better understanding of the truth, and not have to rely only on who is the better salesperson.

Trust my words, Hoopsguy is not a student.

I'm just wondering how you will re-cast each of us tomorrow if you are allowed to escape being lynched tomorrow.

- Me/Racer started as wolves and have now moved into 3rd party status
- Racer was attacking Alan, not scanning him, but Alan couldn't be night killed
- Alan was still alive because there was no night kill, thus it was his blood in the night PM
- no rebuttal to the lack of a "real seer" or the idea that his "blood" story was severaly undercut by Mrs Schmidty's reveal
- repeated suggestions that others will help us to figure this out while we "find the real killers" in Eagle and Telle

Enjoy your work day. Hopefully it is more productive than mine has been.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't find it unlikely. I think the rule could be that they can try to convert N3 or later, and that any of them can do it. So EF wouldn't have a specific convert ability -- he'd just be the brutal.

Even if he IS the brutal, its still a wolf down and another one pegged and a roled player verified.

There is no logical reason to take out telle first is all I'm saying.

[RendeR]

Is it just me or is Every single player in this game TRYING to make it more difficult for everyone?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I have to question the "sleeping on the couch" comment, why on earth would Werewolf effect that at all? You really need to stop trying to fluff up your posts with inane comments. you're making yourself look worse and worse.

In a choice between telle and Eaglefan its a no brainer, you take out the ATTACKING WOLF first. The convert-ee can wait.

Sorry that I pissed you off with the couch comment. I know my wife would be bitter with me if I was part of getting her rightfully lynched. But it was a snarky comment and I'm sorry for it.

In a choice between three wolves, I would take the one I 100% know from my PM is a bad guy.

For another person (you or anyone else not involved in the two triangles we have set up) I would want to take out the person I think provides the most information. From that standpoint, I don't fault your argument.

There is higher risk/reward with either Alan or Eaglefan, as they could be special role wolves. Cunning, brutal, or whatever else Schmidty has cooked up, if they are original wolves then they might be able to do something other than kill at night and count as numbers for the ratio. But we also get voting information from these wolves, which we won't get from a convert.

What I would prefer to do is reduce the number of wolves, continue to expand our COT, and make sure we have a good lynch. In that regard there isn't all that much difference between EF and Telle. Telle is a more cautious choice, EF is a more daring choice. I think Alan is the right choice, but I also don't think I'm convincing you of that today.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Even if he IS the brutal, its still a wolf down and another one pegged and a roled player verified.

There is no logical reason to take out telle first is all I'm saying.

I happen to prefer it if villagers die. This will be the third time I've mentioned that it's typcal wolf play to have the brutal wolf perform actions -- that way if he's caught, he takes a villager with him.

And I'm pretty sure hoops's comment was just a joke.