OT: A Song of Ice and Fire Series (spoilers inside)

[DaddyTorgo]

My new desktop

[DaddyTorgo]

Not-a-blog details on ADWD. Just discussions of POV characters and insights on the writing process...I wouldn't consider POV character revelations spoilers so i'm not going to spoiler them...

Originally Posted by writing process

Final page count: 1510 pages (on his software)

Over the years I've sent various partial manuscripts to my editors, to show them where I was at that particular point in time. Now that the race is finally run, I went back and took another look at some of those old files. The page counts given in what follows refer only to COMPLETE CHAPTERS in final draft form... or what I thought was "complete" and "final" at that time. In each case, I had many pages of additional chapters roughed out or partially written, but those pages were not included in my count.

The earliest partial in my files dates from January 2006. At that point I had 542 finished pages. Now, recall, it was June 2005 when I divided A FEAST FOR CROWS into two parallel books, and wrote my infamous (and, in retrospect, ill-considered) afterword "Meanwhile, Back at the Wall..." A FEAST FOR CROWS, as delivered, was 1063 pages in manuscript. At the time of the split, looking at all the Tyrion and Daenerys material that I'd removed, I figured I only had another 400 odd pages to go to have another book of equal length, which was likely what prompted me to say the next book would be along in a year. Famous last words, those. Never again.

Obviously, it took a lot longer than that. After I wrote that, I ended up spending much of the rest of 2005 doing promotion for FEAST. An American book tour. A Canadian book tour. A British book tour. A visit to Italy for the Lucca Games Show. All great, but all exhausting. I did get back home in between, and got some writing done, but probably not much. That page count of 542 finished pages in January 2006 could not have been much different from what I'd had in June 2005, when I split the books.

And the year or so that followed proved the folly of my prediction. The next partial I sent to Bantam is dated October 2007, and it is 472 pages long. Yes, in the year and a half between the two partials, I had managed to UNwrite some seventy pages. I was doing a lot more revision and rewriting -- and restructuring -- during this period than I was making forward progress.

But then I hit a good spell. In March 2008 I delivered another partial, and this one was 596 pages long. In May 2008, another: 684 pages this time. In December 2008, 774 pages, After that progress remained slow, but fairly steady. I won't say I wasn't still tearing things out, rewriting, restructuring, changing my mind... I was... but I was forging ahead as well, as the partials I sent to my editors testify. In September 2009, I sent them 998 pages. In January 2010 I passed the 1000 pages mark, and delivered 1038 pages. Now I was picking up some steam again. June of 2010, a partial of 1028 pages. August of 2010, 1332 pages, December of 2010, 1412 pages. By March of 2011, Kong was screeching and the biplanes were in the air, and I sent in the final partial, which weighed in at 1571 pages... but I still had some incomplete chapters, some that remained very rough, some that I didn't know whether to include or not. It was those that pushed the final count over 1600 and up near 1700 before the editorial changes and final sweat that I've detailed up above.

Originally Posted by POV's in ADWD

The final count shows that we've got 73 chapters, told through the eyes of (gulp) sixteen different viewpoint characters.

Sansa, Sam, Aeron Damphair, Arianne, and Brienne have no chapters in A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. Several of those characters had chapters written, completed, and polished that have been moved into THE WINDS OF WINTER.

Tyrion, Dany, and Jon Snow would be back in the next book, and so they are. Those three characters dominate A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. Out of 73 chapters, 35 concern their exploits; sixteen viewpoints, aye, but just three of them make up almost half of the book. The next largest chunk o' chapters belongs to an old POV character who has been missing for a couple of books, but now returns to us... rather the worse for wear.

Tyrion is not the only Lannister with a viewpoint. Cersei and Jaime will have chapters as well, though... be warned... not a lot of them. Arya is also on hand. And we'll check in with Bran and his companions as well [redacted by DT to avoid spoiler]. There are two Dornish POVs (one old, one new), and three ironborn(all previous POVs).

And there are some new viewpoint characters. Some of them are new CHARACTERS, introduced for the first time in this book. Others are established characters, but new VIEWPOINTS; they have been around, but you've never gone inside their heads before. In the end, I wound up with.... hmmm, let me count 'em... one, two, three... ah... FOUR new viewpoint characters. And that doesn't even include the Prologue and Epilogue.

Originally Posted by on the meereenese knot

At least part of the infamous Meereenese knot was a viewpoint problem. (Not all of it, no, a lot had to do with chronology and causation, but some of it was a POV question). Introducing a new POV helped me resolve those problems, and made for a better book. And in the end, making a better book trumps all other concerns.

[DaddyTorgo]

So I can either order from Amazon and pay $11 in shipping to get it on release day (total $30) or buy in a bookstore for $35?

That's fucking annoying.

[sabotai]

Pre-ordered for the Kindle, $14.99.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - if I had a Kindle that woulda been a good idea. I haven't done that though, partly because I feel like if I did I'd have to buy my favorite books all over again (including all of these, LOTR, Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc) and that'd be a huge outlay of cash.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah - if I had a Kindle that woulda been a good idea. I haven't done that though, partly because I feel like if I did I'd have to buy my favorite books all over again (including all of these, LOTR, Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc) and that'd be a huge outlay of cash.

reserve it at your local library

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

So I can either order from Amazon and pay $11 in shipping to get it on release day (total $30) or buy in a bookstore for $35?

That's fucking annoying.

How about buying it in a bookstore for $17.50? Don't shop at the ones that are $35 on the day of release.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

How about buying it in a bookstore for $17.50? Don't shop at the ones that are $35 on the day of release.

Not sure there'd be any where it would be $17.50. I mean I can check my local indy bookstore (and I will), but the list price on B&N.com was $35, so I'd expect that's what it will (basically) be everywhere.

I hope I'm wrong.

[terpkristin]

This morning I finished my re-read of books 1-4. I haven't read the books since 2005, it was refreshing to read them again. There were a lot of things I'd forgotten. Now I have to wait BOOOOOOO.

/tk

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

So I can either order from Amazon and pay $11 in shipping to get it on release day (total $30) or buy in a bookstore for $35?

That's fucking annoying.

Or you could wait a few days and get it for $18.81 .

This is the joy of having to get a book on the release day, after all... you pay for the privilege.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Or you could wait a few days and get it for $18.81 .

This is the joy of having to get a book on the release day, after all... you pay for the privilege.

Oh I know. I'm debating that right now.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

This morning I finished my re-read of books 1-4. I haven't read the books since 2005, it was refreshing to read them again. There were a lot of things I'd forgotten. Now I have to wait BOOOOOOO.

/tk

I'm doing the same thing. I'm 25% of the way through A Feast for Crows, so I've timed it about right.

[terpkristin]

Check out the comic from July 4, 2011. Least I Could Do: the Comic » by Ryan Sohmer and Lar deSouza

/tk

[PraetorianX]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah - if I had a Kindle that woulda been a good idea. I haven't done that though, partly because I feel like if I did I'd have to buy my favorite books all over again (including all of these, LOTR, Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc) and that'd be a huge outlay of cash.

Well, you wouldn't have to rebuy all your old favorites right away, just slowly add them to your digital collection as time goes by. And you'll never have to worry about losing your ebooks or them getting old and warn out or what have you. And you can take ALL your books everywhere with you.

Plus you could get A Dance With Dragons at 12:01 AM on July 12th for only like, $15. You never have to worry about shipping costs.

Seriously, I finally decided to get myself a Kindle a couple months ago. I absolutely love it and wish I'd done it years ago. It does sort of suck having to buy all your old favorites again but A.) Many of them are much cheaper now than when I first bought them (i.e. - I got AGoT for only $5 and I think Feast was only $9) and B.) You don't HAVE to get them right away. Since you already have the hard copy you can just read that if you can't afford the digital.


Just saying, I took awhile to get a Kindle for many of the same reasons, and I've found it to be brilliant. The longer you wait, the more books you'll have to rebuy in digital format.

Then again, you COULD buy the Kindle version and just use Kindle for PC or if you have a smartphone or tablet or iPod Touch, whatever, use the Kindle app for that. And eventually you could get your Kindle whenever.

Or you could get the Google Books version, or B&N, whatever, if you don't want to get Amazon's version.

Either way, you'd get the book for half the price you were talking about on day of release.

Just a thought.

[GrantDawg]

I hate when people talk about kindles. It always makes me want one so bad, but the is no way i can afford it right now.

[lighthousekeeper]

i'm serious about the library option - i read books 1-3 using that approach. my library also has an ebook lending program though I haven't taken advantage of it yet.

[Barkeep49]

My library is loaning out Nooks now. I borrowed it and LOVED it. The thing is though I don't really buy books, I borrow them for libraries so while the initial price of the device doesn't turn me off the ownership costs do. And while my library does lend out ebooks the wait can be ridiculously long as it's done through a consortium (so, for instance, if I put Game of Thrones on reserve right now I'd be #85 on the list waiting for one of 10 copies to be returned, with the math working out that I'd get it approximately half a year from now).

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PraetorianX

Well, you wouldn't have to rebuy all your old favorites right away, just slowly add them to your digital collection as time goes by. And you'll never have to worry about losing your ebooks or them getting old and warn out or what have you. And you can take ALL your books everywhere with you.

Plus you could get A Dance With Dragons at 12:01 AM on July 12th for only like, $15. You never have to worry about shipping costs.

Seriously, I finally decided to get myself a Kindle a couple months ago. I absolutely love it and wish I'd done it years ago. It does sort of suck having to buy all your old favorites again but A.) Many of them are much cheaper now than when I first bought them (i.e. - I got AGoT for only $5 and I think Feast was only $9) and B.) You don't HAVE to get them right away. Since you already have the hard copy you can just read that if you can't afford the digital.


Just saying, I took awhile to get a Kindle for many of the same reasons, and I've found it to be brilliant. The longer you wait, the more books you'll have to rebuy in digital format.

Then again, you COULD buy the Kindle version and just use Kindle for PC or if you have a smartphone or tablet or iPod Touch, whatever, use the Kindle app for that. And eventually you could get your Kindle whenever.

Or you could get the Google Books version, or B&N, whatever, if you don't want to get Amazon's version.

Either way, you'd get the book for half the price you were talking about on day of release.

Just a thought.

Yeah...I know. I'm wavering. Badly.

I told myself I was going to wait to decide on a device until I figured out what my local liberary cooperative (local towns in MA banded together) standardized on for lending...but man am I wavering.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I hate when people talk about kindles. It always makes me want one so bad, but the is no way i can afford it right now.

On the bright side, the prices have been dropping pretty quickly... now $114 for the latest wi-fi Kindle (with ads, but hey, only on like sleep screens).

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah...I know. I'm wavering. Badly.

I told myself I was going to wait to decide on a device until I figured out what my local liberary cooperative (local towns in MA banded together) standardized on for lending...but man am I wavering.

Not sure about your area, but all of the libraries out here in central MA are using overdrive which works with Sony or Nook readers. (Not kindle I don't think), but it also works with computers, iphones, ipads, etc to check out e-books.

[PraetorianX]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah...I know. I'm wavering. Badly.

I told myself I was going to wait to decide on a device until I figured out what my local liberary cooperative (local towns in MA banded together) standardized on for lending...but man am I wavering.

Just get a Nook then, it's highly likely that whatever they choose will be supported by Nook, and from all I've heard it's a fine reader. And only, what, about $120 for the regular Nook?

[spleen1015]

I got a NOOK Color a few months ago and I am very glad I did. It has lead me to read more and I think I will continue to.

I don't know if I would have started to even read this series unless I got the NOOK. I also like reading on the NOOK better than a book. I reread Harry Potter 7 over the weekend and it bothered me that it wasn't on the NOOK.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Not sure about your area, but all of the libraries out here in central MA are using overdrive which works with Sony or Nook readers. (Not kindle I don't think), but it also works with computers, iphones, ipads, etc to check out e-books.

Thnx for the info Alan.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PraetorianX

Just get a Nook then, it's highly likely that whatever they choose will be supported by Nook, and from all I've heard it's a fine reader. And only, what, about $120 for the regular Nook?

Yeah - I guess that's what I've been gathering the trend is leaning towards.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Not sure there'd be any where it would be $17.50. I mean I can check my local indy bookstore (and I will), but the list price on B&N.com was $35, so I'd expect that's what it will (basically) be everywhere.

I hope I'm wrong.

Keep in mind that sale pricing for a lot of stores doesn't kick in in the computer until the sale actually goes live, and that most places won't do the reveal until their circular/ad/promotional copy goes out so that competitors have as little notice as possible. But you can count on Sam's/Costco to be running below 45% off, B&N will almost certainly be somewhere in the 30-40% off range, and those of us that don't expect to make any money in retailing anymore will just say "Fuck it" and use it as a loss leader at 50%. (Actually, I'll sell it for $17.50, pay $10 on trade ins, and sell the trade ins at $18 after the new price goes back up to $25 next week.)

Even Wal-Mart and Target will probably have the thing at no more than $25 on day of release, and possibly much less. With the TV series in place and no Meyer or Rowling on the horizon, this is the E ticket item of the quarter, so retailers are going to be pushing for volume over profit.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Keep in mind that sale pricing for a lot of stores doesn't kick in in the computer until the sale actually goes live, and that most places won't do the reveal until their circular/ad/promotional copy goes out so that competitors have as little notice as possible. But you can count on Sam's/Costco to be running below 45% off, B&N will almost certainly be somewhere in the 30-40% off range, and those of us that don't expect to make any money in retailing anymore will just say "Fuck it" and use it as a loss leader at 50%. (Actually, I'll sell it for $17.50, pay $10 on trade ins, and sell the trade ins at $18 after the new price goes back up to $25 next week.)

Even Wal-Mart and Target will probably have the thing at no more than $25 on day of release, and possibly much less. With the TV series in place and no Meyer or Rowling on the horizon, this is the E ticket item of the quarter, so retailers are going to be pushing for volume over profit.

Very good point - very good point.

[DaddyTorgo]

OMG...just found out that George R.R. Martin is doing a signing in Burlington MA (45 mins or so away) on Tuesday night. Buy the book there on Tuesday and you get a wristband that guarentees you get your copy signed that night.

Am I pretty much obligated to go and do that then?? Buy the book first thing on Tuesday morning...spend the day in Burlington (where my dad's office is and there's a big mall there where I could sit and read, as well as no shortage of Starbucks and what-not), and then go back for the signing after a good 6-7 hours of reading?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

OMG...just found out that George R.R. Martin is doing a signing in Burlington MA (45 mins or so away) on Tuesday night. Buy the book there on Tuesday and you get a wristband that guarentees you get your copy signed that night.

Am I pretty much obligated to go and do that then??

I would do it if I could.

[Fidatelo]

I'm not sure I understand the allure of a book signing. Is it meeting the author? Or is it the signature in the book? As a socially-awkward person the former seems like a terrible 'reward' for spending money on something and standing in a line, while the latter just feels odd ("hey honey, check this out, my copy of this book has been made personal by the author. No, we don't know each other, and ya, he did this for 16000 people this week, but still...").

Maybe I need to go to one of these things one day to appreciate it, but from the outside it strikes me as a confusing way to spend ones time.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I'm not sure I understand the allure of a book signing. Is it meeting the author? Or is it the signature in the book? As a socially-awkward person the former seems like a terrible 'reward' for spending money on something and standing in a line, while the latter just feels odd ("hey honey, check this out, my copy of this book has been made personal by the author. No, we don't know each other, and ya, he did this for 16000 people this week, but still...").

Maybe I need to go to one of these things one day to appreciate it, but from the outside it strikes me as a confusing way to spend ones time.

It's the scarcity factor really. At least...that's my thought. Guy doesn't really "meet" anybody...you just walk by and hand him your copy...tell him your name maybe, and then while he's signing go "man i really love your books...they're great" and then get ushered on out of the way. But it's something that differentiates your book (to a degree...to your point there are a lot of other people who will have signed copies of course...but still out of the total of millions of copies).

At least that's what I imagine. Only signings I've ever been to before were signings at Star Trek conventions (my collection of Star Trek autographs is awesome).

[terpkristin]

Least I Could Do: the Comic » Comic Archive » I did warn you not to trust me.



On a note, I just realized that the next 3 weeks are going to be HELLA crazy. On Monday and Tuesday we have rehearsals for our upcoming mission. On Friday, it launches. Then begins two weeks of craziness running the mission (my first in this role, actually, being the lead engineer). I hope I get a chance to have some time to myself to read...

/tk

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I'm not sure I understand the allure of a book signing. Is it meeting the author? Or is it the signature in the book? As a socially-awkward person the former seems like a terrible 'reward' for spending money on something and standing in a line, while the latter just feels odd ("hey honey, check this out, my copy of this book has been made personal by the author. No, we don't know each other, and ya, he did this for 16000 people this week, but still...").

Maybe I need to go to one of these things one day to appreciate it, but from the outside it strikes me as a confusing way to spend ones time.

A very good friend of mine loves it. He has hundreds of books signed and goes to various author conventions and signings and what not to get his stuff signed.

While it's not something I make a habit of doing, Martin was at some big event in Washington D.C. back in 2005, right after Feast came out. I believe it was called the National Book Festivle. He was among many, many authors present. I lived in D.C. at the time, so me, Lady H_B and my beforementioned friend (who also lives in D.C.) went. He did a readings. Answered some questions and then we got in line and had all of our books signed, chatted briefly and had our picture taken with him. It was fun.

An enjoyable afternoon. So, I can see the allure. As I understand it a lot of these, with smaller authors, you do get a chance to chat with the author. If Martin were to come around here, I would likely go with my wife to get "Dance" signed. It'd be nice to have a complete set.

Outside of Martin, I can't think of another author I would go to a signing for.

And with that... I am likely out of this thread until I finish "A Dance With Dragons".

[ISiddiqui]

Less than 12 hours now!

[BrianD]

Oh crap, I was just thinking about starting a re-read of the series. I'm not sure I can hold off on the new one that long.

[spleen1015]

I think I am having Book 3 hangover. I had to put Book 4 down and read something else. Once I finish Unbroken, I will get back to this.

[DaddyTorgo]

This thread will likely get fairly quiet as everyone reads I suspect, but let's all remember to keep spoilering things, hmm?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Oh crap, I was just thinking about starting a re-read of the series. I'm not sure I can hold off on the new one that long.

Tower of the Hand ~ An Encyclopedia of Ice and Fire has very good chapter summaries. That's what I'm reading now.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

This thread will likely get fairly quiet as everyone reads I suspect, but let's all remember to keep spoilering things, hmm?

Yes please. As someone who is going to watch the TV show first avoiding spoilers would be great.

[DaddyTorgo]

Think we've been pretty good about it so far in this thread.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Tower of the Hand ~ An Encyclopedia of Ice and Fire has very good chapter summaries. That's what I'm reading now.

You may be my new best friend.

[cschex]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Think we've been pretty good about it so far in this thread.

Agreed, this is one of the few threads on the series I can be sure of visiting w/out spoilers from the people who got the book early.

On that note, UPS is driving my copy towards my house as we speak

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by cschex

Agreed, this is one of the few threads on the series I can be sure of visiting w/out spoilers from the people who got the book early.

On that note, UPS is driving my copy towards my house as we speak

Early??? GRRRRR

[Shkspr]

That was kind of fun. We hosted a midnight release party, sold almost a third of our stock, and had a lot of laughs with the "Westeros Spelling Bee". At one point I was taking bets with customers and employees who hadn't read the series, offering to buy them all five books with cash in pocket if they could correctly spell a single randomly chosen character name (people who had read the books were ineligible for that challenge, but could still win calendars, T-shirts, or bookmarks depending on their skill). Nobody won a set of books.

[3ric]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Early??? GRRRRR

I got an email yesterday about DoD being shipped to me as well.

[cougarfreak]

Mine was on my kindle this morning when I woke up. Now to reading...........

[spleen1015]

I'm not ready to read DoD yet, but I have encountered my first issue with my Nook Color. I pre-ordered DoD and it shows as available on BN.com, but it won't download to the Nook and still shows in pre-order status.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Mine was on my kindle this morning when I woke up. Now to reading...........

Bought it when I woke up on my Kindle .

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am kicking it old school. Amazon is having the book delivered to my house as I write this.

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that the gap between the last time we had any updates from characters such as Dany, Bran and Tyrion spans my entire professional career as a lawyer, which is almost 11 years. That is madness.

When I get home from work, I plan to retire to my bedroom (the only room in the house that has air conditioning and it’s ungodly hot out again today) and begin the "Dance" while my loyal hound, Aegon, sleeps at my feet (when he’s not busy begging for food or asking me to play with him).

[DaddyTorgo]

Book in hand by 9:15am (was like 20th in line at B&N). Already 100 pages in, sitting at the Starbucks down the street reading and actually working a little. Don't want to gorge myself on the whole book today or anything, and figure I'll be reading later while I wait in line for the signing.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

That was kind of fun. We hosted a midnight release party, sold almost a third of our stock, and had a lot of laughs with the "Westeros Spelling Bee". At one point I was taking bets with customers and employees who hadn't read the series, offering to buy them all five books with cash in pocket if they could correctly spell a single randomly chosen character name (people who had read the books were ineligible for that challenge, but could still win calendars, T-shirts, or bookmarks depending on their skill). Nobody won a set of books.

Damn - wish I could have been there!!!