Soccer Thread 2013-14

[MIJB#19]

Cruel draw for the USA, some bad memories...

[DaddyTorgo]

FML

WE CAN'T AVOID GHANA!!!!

[ISiddiqui]

Ghana and Germany... interesting...

[DaddyTorgo]

Group H isn't really tricky either it seems.

[MIJB#19]

Sweet: loser of Spain vs Netherlands plays Brazil in the second round.

[DaddyTorgo]

Group B is tricky. How you feeling MJIB?

[Passacaglia]

We're ovbiously rooting for Bosnia at this point?

[DaddyTorgo]

US with the worst travel itinerary apparently (9,000 miles!) along with the D4 team.

Yikes. Not feeling good.

[DaddyTorgo]

More camera focus on the model's rack please?

[MIJB#19]

A
Brazil
Croatia
Mexico
Cameroon

B
Spain
Netherlands
Chile
Australia

C
Colombia
Greece
Ivory Coast
Japan

D
Uruguay
Costa Rica
England
Italy

E
Switzerland
Ecuador
France
Honduras

F
Argentina
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Iran
Nigeria

G
Germany
Portugal
Ghana
USA

H
Belgium
Algeria
Russia
South Korea

[DaddyTorgo]

FML. Portugal.

That is badddddddddddddd

[ISiddiqui]

Portugal too.... man, talk about some memories in this group for the US.

[cartman]

B and G are Groups of Death

[DaddyTorgo]

Pretty good for Italy, my 2nd team.

Argentina is setup pretty well to run to the Semis at least.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Portugal too.... man, talk about some memories in this group for the US.

We can put it all behind us in one single Cup!

[Grover]

We got this.

[cartman]

I have a bad feeling about CR7 facing the US back line.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Group B is tricky. How you feeling MJIB?

Not thrilled to play against Spain on Friday the 13th, but I think they're more superstitious.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cartman

B and G are Groups of Death

D would have been worse than G if we got drawn into it imo, so 2 worse potential draws in B and D. 3 I'd definitely have preferred (E, H, and C). A and F wouldn't have been much different from our draw.

Plusses - no South American team on their home continent, no ultra-defensive team (who we always seem to struggle against), and the hot weather (2 jungle games?) will probably hurt Germany and Portugal as much as if not more than us (not sure about Ghana's depth.)

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by cartman

I have a bad feeling about CR7 facing the US back line.

You and me both, not the worst draw for the US, but damn close.

[flere-imsaho]

Group A
Brazil
Croatia
Mexico
Cameroon

By the end of the group stage, Neymar has the Golden Boot locked up

Group B
Spain
Netherlands
Chile
Australia

Two teams fight for first. Two teams fight for second.

Group C
Colombia
Greece
Côte d'Ivoire
Japan

What's the opposite of the Group of Death? Because this is it. Maybe Radamel Falcao gives Neymar a run for the Golden Boot. Oh, and Shinji Kagawa gets sold at a premium from ManU based on his group play alone.

Group D
Uruguay
Costa Rica
England
Italy

For once, England's persecution complex is based in reality. Can't wait for Suarez to flop in Gerrard's vicinity.

Group E
Switzerland
Ecuador
France
Honduras

Now we know how the French won that second leg playoff. Franck Ribery, who can see the future, showed them the draw they'd get, and they realized how easy it was going to be to make the knockout stage, as a result.

Group F
Argentina
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Iran
Nigeria

OK, add Messi into the Golden Boot thingy too. Three great draws for three South American teams so far (and Uruguay's isn't all that bad either, especially if the Italians and/or English implode).

Group G
Germany
Portugal
Ghana
USA

Holy shit.

The best thing about this group, though, is the highs and lows of Cristiano Ronaldo's psyche on playing the USA & Ghana vs. playing the Germans.

Group H
Belgium
Algeria
Russia
South Korea

Managers of Belgium, Russia & South Korea, you now have 6 months to figure out how to field the highest-scoring team possible. Go!

[Solecismic]

D looks extremely tough. Can't count out Uruguay in the slightest, especially so near their home turf.

Bad break for the US in group G, which also looks tough. I'd imagine it'll be US/Portugal for the second spot, and Ghana isn't exactly an easy fourth.

B is the other ridiculous draw. Will Chile get a boost from the South Americans? It'll be nice to see Spain play the Orange again, but not exactly fair to either side.

The other five groups are significantly lighter. I see it as B-D/G---------E/C-H-F/A. Brazil and Argentina could send their second or third teams and make it through. France and Russia received gifts, too, and C is wide open for a rather easy round-of-16 matchup for whoever makes it to the top of D.

I don't like it all, but that's what you get sometimes.

[MIJB#19]

average FIFA Ranking (the one used for seeding) per group:
Group G - 13th
Group D - 14th
Group B - 19.5th
Group C - 20th
Group E - 21st
Group F - 25.25th
Group A - 28th
Group H - 28th

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

D looks extremely tough. Can't count out Uruguay in the slightest, especially so near their home turf.

Bad break for the US in group G, which also looks tough. I'd imagine it'll be US/Portugal for the second spot, and Ghana isn't exactly an easy fourth.

B is the other ridiculous draw. Will Chile get a boost from the South Americans? It'll be nice to see Spain play the Orange again, but not exactly fair to either side.

The other five groups are significantly lighter. I see it as B-D/G---------E/C-H-F/A. Brazil and Argentina could send their second or third teams and make it through. France and Russia received gifts, too, and C is wide open for a rather easy round-of-16 matchup for whoever makes it to the top of D.

I don't like it all, but that's what you get sometimes.

That's what Belgium and Switzerland getting seeded does.

[bhlloy]

It's hilarious to hear the English claiming second spot in that group already.

Suarez and Cavani vs Smalling and Cahill should be a joy to behold

[Vince, Pt. II]

So is a random draw a terrible way to do this? You're going to end up with a fair number of top half of the field teams who don't advance to the knockout stage just because they were all put in the same groups.

I like the excitement of the draw, but the luck element doesn't sit well with me.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

It's hilarious to hear the English claiming second spot in that group already.

Suarez and Cavani vs Smalling and Cahill should be a joy to behold

Dream on England.

Uruguay/Italy for the top spot. Loser is in the #2 spot.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

So is a random draw a terrible way to do this? You're going to end up with a fair number of top half of the field teams who don't advance to the knockout stage just because they were all put in the same groups.

I like the excitement of the draw, but the luck element doesn't sit well with me.

Politics would make it impossible if it were based on committee. I think they need to do a better job with the potting. If they base it more on rankings and do a little more pot-X stuff (like taking the remaining African teams out of the fourth pot when drawing into a group that has Ivory Coast or Ghana in the third spot), it would be more even. But I think they wanted a system where the draw could be as easily understood as possible.

[MIJB#19]

One of thousands of ways things could wind down:
A: 1 Brazil, 2 Mexico, 3 Croatia, 4 Cameroon (should be a good)
B: 1 Spain, 2 Netherlands, 3 Chile, 4 Australia (too biased to judge)
C: 1 Colombia, 2 Ivory Coast, 3 Japan, 4 Greece (love this group)
D: 1 Uruguay, 2 England, 3 Italy, 4 Costa Rica (passionate group)
E: 1 Ecuador, 2 France, 3 Switzerland, 4 Honduras (bad, even group)
F: 1 Argentina, 2 Bosnia-Herzegovina, 3 Nigeria, 4 Iran (interesting)
G: 1 Germany, 2 Portugal, 3 USA, 4 Ghana (clear cut group of death)
H: 1 Belgium, 2 Russia, 3 South Korea, 4 Algeria (bad group)

R2 winners: Brazil, England, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Germany
R2 winners: Spain, Uruguay, Argentina, Portugal
QF winners: Brazil, Germany, Spain, Argentina (Messi over Ronaldo)
SF1: Brazil over Germany (game of the tournament)
SF2: Argentina over Spain (Messi vs Messi-less Barça)
Final: Brazil over Argentina

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

So is a random draw a terrible way to do this? You're going to end up with a fair number of top half of the field teams who don't advance to the knockout stage just because they were all put in the same groups.

I like the excitement of the draw, but the luck element doesn't sit well with me.

I think there is just too much risk of (implied) corruption to have it done by a committee. Just look at the brouhaha when Qatar got the 2022 World Cup.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

One of thousands of ways things could wind down:
)
D: 1 Uruguay, 2 England, 3 Italy, 4 Costa Rica (passionate group)

Italy's not coming in 3rd in that group.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I think the solution I'm thinking is a simple distribution by rankings. Which would of course introduce corruption/bias in the ranking system (look at the commentary about Switzerland and Belgium in pot 1 already) but it seems like that would lead to more even groups.

[MIJB#19]

Fwiw, biggest news of the World Cup draw over here is the shortest minute of silence in the existence of humanity: 11 seconds for Nelson Mandela.

[Alan T]

My in-laws from Chile are not too thrilled with the draw. If they do manage to get past Spain/Netherlands, they likely would have to face Brazil in the next round.

[MylesKnight]

It sets up quite nicely for Côte d'Ivoire to finally get past the Group Stage. Nigeria looks good as well. And Ghana.. Hmm.. If they get three points out the first match against the US, they have a shot.

Chances are good for Africa to get a strong representation in the Round of 16.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Italy's not coming in 3rd in that group.

I'm putting Italy ahead of England for chances to get deep into the tournament, although just barely. I'm writing England in as 2nd, as I'm sensing Uruguay and Italy will play an all or nothing game in the final group stage round.

[flere-imsaho]

The thing with Group D is that three of those teams could easily beat each other on any given day. Of the three, I think Italy has the strongest foundation / greatest likelihood to be consistent, but still.

Uruguay: is essentially banking on Suarez & Cavani being able to outscore the opposition, which isn't a bad bet given that neither England nor Italy are consistently explosive.

England: the only thing consistent about England in the past lord-knows-how-many-years is a lack of invention and incision in attack. As such, they'll need to play two very different games. Against Uruguay they must keep up against Suarez and Cavani, and will need to be relaxed and creative to do so, and against Italy they must find a way to get a goal or two, and be disciplined yet forceful to do so. I think that's asking a lot of this England team.

Italy: if Balotelli plays well and doesn't have issues surface, if Di Rossi can stay healthy, and if age doesn't catch up with Pirlo, they win this group pretty handily.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

One of thousands of ways things could wind down:
A: 1 Brazil, 2 Mexico, 3 Croatia, 4 Cameroon (should be a good)

I can agree with this. Croatia should really be better than Mexico, and Mexico does have some serious identity and cohesion issues to sort out, but this sounds reasonable to me.

B: 1 Spain, 2 Netherlands, 3 Chile, 4 Australia (too biased to judge)

Nah, you've got it, unless both Van Persie & Robben are too banged up to be at the top of their game. Holland aren't good enough to get past Spain, but Chile shoudn't be good enough to really threaten Holland. I predict 0 or 1 points for Australia.

C: 1 Colombia, 2 Ivory Coast, 3 Japan, 4 Greece (love this group)

It's pretty cool from a multi-cultural standpoint. You're going to see a lot of diverse styles that aren't familiar to most spectators. This group should be close, though. This is probably the group most likely to have each team beat at least one other team.

D: 1 Uruguay, 2 England, 3 Italy, 4 Costa Rica (passionate group)

I'm going Italy first, then Uruguay, then England, then Costa Rica. You'd hope such a result would get the English FA to consider some radical changes, but that's more-or-less against their modus operandi.

E: 1 Ecuador, 2 France, 3 Switzerland, 4 Honduras (bad, even group)

I'd favor the European teams, to be honest.

F: 1 Argentina, 2 Bosnia-Herzegovina, 3 Nigeria, 4 Iran (interesting)

Three teams playing for second place. If Argentina has any trouble with any of them you really need to write off their tournament hopes.

G: 1 Germany, 2 Portugal, 3 USA, 4 Ghana (clear cut group of death)

I agree, this is the Group of Death. All four teams are at least competent, with some real strengths. As much as I'd like to see the US go through, your lineup is probably correct. I don't see how the US solves for Ronaldo unless Klinnsmann has something up his sleeve. The US needs to hope the rest of the Portuguese team has an off day and/or Ronaldo gets rattled / upset.

But the U.S. is one of those teams that probably still loses to a half-way decent team that contains one of the best players in the world.

H: 1 Belgium, 2 Russia, 3 South Korea, 4 Algeria (bad group)

Belgium, in general, should be fun to watch, but this is probably the least interesting group.

[DaddyTorgo]

Chile outplayed Spain and ended with a 2-2 draw in September. They're no pushover.

I'm just hoping USA can beat Ghana and thus end up in 3rd place rather than dragging the bottom of the group.

Group C is going to be fun to watch, Colombia & Ivory Coast. Sort of the same with Group E.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

So is a random draw a terrible way to do this? You're going to end up with a fair number of top half of the field teams who don't advance to the knockout stage just because they were all put in the same groups.

I like the excitement of the draw, but the luck element doesn't sit well with me.

With the FIFA Ranking that were used, that could have resulted in something like:
A: Brazil, [Italy], Mexico, Cameroon
B: Spain, Netherlands, [Ecuador], Australia
C: Colombia, Greece, Ivory Coast, Japan
D: Uruguay, Costa Rica, England, [Nigeria]
E: Switzerland, [USA], France, Honduras
F: Argentina, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Iran, [Croatia]
G: Germany, Portugal, Ghana, [South Korea]
H: Belgium, Algeria, Russia, [Chile]
Teams in brackets were moved to get into a seed where they belong based on the rankings and to move around as little teams as possible. Also took the liberty to keep Brazil (11th) ahead of Netherlands (8th).

Although initially this looked very similar to me, I realized this is more balanced. Group D got significantly different, while the other reshuffled groups look similar. And Group C is still the group that never should have been...

[cartman]

I think though that based on the rules, that the US and Honduras couldn't be in the same group.

[Galaxy]

The U.S. gets to plays Portugal in Manaus as well.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by cartman

I think though that based on the rules, that the US and Honduras couldn't be in the same group.

D'oh. Missed that one. Back to the drawing board!

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

With the FIFA Ranking that were used, that could have resulted in something like:

A: Brazil, [Netherlands], Mexico, Cameroon
B: Spain, [Croatia], Chile, Australia
C: Colombia, Greece, Ivory Coast, Japan
D: Uruguay, Costa Rica, England, [Nigeria]
E: Switzerland, Ecuador, [Italy], Honduras
F: Argentina, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Iran, [France]
G: Germany, Portugal, Ghana, [South Korea]
H: Belgium, Algeria, Russia, [USA]

This should work.

[RainMaker]

I know everyone is upset with the US draw but it's not that terrible. Ghana is being given way too much credit because of the history with the US. And it's not like Portugal has dominated during qualifying. Getting 3 points vs Ghana and finding a way to draw vs Portugal isn't out of the question. That could be enough to get through.

Plus they play Germany last who might already be through by then.

[RainMaker]

The US was also due for a shitty draw considering they've had some favorable ones over the years.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Chile outplayed Spain and ended with a 2-2 draw in September. They're no pushover.

I'm just hoping USA can beat Ghana and thus end up in 3rd place rather than dragging the bottom of the group.

Shurg.... Portugal's results in the 2nd half of 2012

4-2 win @ Northern Ireland
1-1 draw vs. Israel
3-0 win vs. Luxembourg
1-0 win vs. Sweden
3-2 win @ Sweden

Ronaldo's phenomenal, but their team isn't exactly dominant. Let's roll that ball out and play. And even Germany we beat 4-3 recently - let's just do that again (I know that was a B team, but it can only help our confidence level in a rematch. Fwiw, they don't seem like a team that would go easy, and they have a loaded bench, but we do get them in the last game when they might already have a spot locked up, which could only help.)

[cartman]

I think that Costa Rica probably got the worst draw of all 32 teams.

[RainMaker]

USMNT also gets to play Portugal in a fucking jungle which probably helps level the playing field a bit.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

USMNT also gets to play Portugal in a fucking jungle which probably helps level the playing field a bit.

I think Germany will be more affected by the weather.

Originally Posted by cartman

I think that Costa Rica probably got the worst draw of all 32 teams.

No, Australia. I could see any of the 3 teams in Costa Rica's group blowing up for some reason and being The disappointment/laughingstock of the group stages. I can't see Spain, Netherlands, Chile doing the same.