The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012

[JediKooter]

I think the word is xenophobe.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yep, that's definitely a YMMV thing. I'd put that ("diversity") in the top 5 of our greatest weaknesses without any real hesitation, to the point that it might ultimately be the primary source of our downfall.

Yeah, this country sure has gone to shit once those negroes were allowed to be free.

[JonInMiddleGA]

GA Gov runoff update: Although Deal leads by about 10k votes with roughly three-quarters of precincts counted, it looks to me as though Handel will drag him down from behind at the end. She's still got most of Fulton, DeKalb, and part of Chatham & Muscogee counties still to come in & she's solidly beating him there.

She looks to be going to win largely on the basis of the most Dem counties in the state, enough to make me wonder if there wasn't considerable crossover voting going on.

[miked]

I don't know why you'd think that. Deal is infinitely more beatable than Handel, it would seem he should be the Dem's choice if they want to push the worse candidate.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

I don't know why you'd think that. Deal is infinitely more beatable than Handel, it would seem he should be the Dem's choice if they want to push the worse candidate.

At least 1/4th of the GOP isn't going to vote for her after her support of gay activist groups was revealed, nominating her virtually guarantees Barnes as the next governor.

Also, latest h2h polling shows Deal beating Barnes by 5 points (49-44 IIRC) while Barnes beats Handel by 3-5 points (I can't recall the exact number).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Maybe I'll have one race out of four go my way after all. Still not finished, but Deal's lead is 2,418 with virtually everything counted with the exception of 1 precinct (out of the whole state) of votes cast today and 9 more precincts of in-person early voting. Presumably there's some provisional ballots out there too but typically not a significant number.

My stomach hurts.

edit to add: Except now perhaps Fulton's totals don't yet include absentee ballots (distinct from early voting totals).

[miked]

Hmmm...I thought Barnes was beating both. I think Deal is probably one of the shadier/dirtier guys in the race (you probably feel the same way about Barnes...as do I), but some of his land and money dealings have raised their fair share of eyebrows. Then again, in Georgia all you need to do in convince everyone you will ban gays and abortions and re-instate the rebel flag to win.

[ISiddiqui]

Ugh... the potential to elect an out and out crook for Governor in GA increases. Heck, that's probably the reason Deal ran for Governor in the first place - because he knew ethics charges would have booted him from Congress.

[JPhillips]

I swear the GOP is in a different world. I'm on vacation in FL and it appears the biggest issues in the GOP Gov and AG primaries are who hates healthcare reform more and who loves the Arizona immigration bill more.

[RainMaker]

On average, you will live a longer life in Chile, Costa Rica, Puerto Rico, Slovenia, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates than you will in Florida.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Handel conceded about a half hour ago, endorsed Deal.

[rowech]

I just don't understand...

Obama hosting Ramadan dinner - Politics - White House - msnbc.com

It's a local matter? The killing of 3000 people is a local matter? It's pure stupidity to allow this to happen. That mosque will be destroyed by relatives of those killed in 9/11.

[miked]

What don't you understand, other than rational thought? What does this have to do with Obama, should he sign an executive order not allowing anything but a church to built near the WTC? I mean, I don't think it's the best idea, seems a bit like a bad decision on somebody's part, but this is America (at least the last time I checked). Obviously it's been approved locally, the council rejected the landmark status (wouldn't have mattered anyway) and the mayor endorses it.

But because Obama is hosting a dinner in which he'll talk about religious tolerance, something is afoot? Seems just like Tea Party, where spending was ok when Bush was in office, but suddenly they want to take America back and reel in spending when a democrat is doing it (and one of a different color). Just so some perspective can be interjected into your existence...an article from last year.

Is the White House dinner tonight celebrating Ramadan and honoring the contributions of American Muslims the latest exhibit in President Obama's charm offensive toward the global Islamic community?

Sure, but it wasn't Obama's idea. Turns out that the Ramadan dinner was an innovation of George W. Bush, who hosted one every year he was in office and who also used the event to recognize the contributions of American Muslims.

I know, I know, we still blame Bush for too much.

[cartman]

So the First Amendment is now "PC garbage"? Last time I checked, Al Qaeda wasn't the one building the mosque, it was a long time American imam, who preaches interfaith communication.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by rowech

It's a local matter? The killing of 3000 people is a local matter? It's pure stupidity to allow this to happen. That mosque will be destroyed by relatives of those killed in 9/11.

There is a decades old actual Mosque (which this building isn't, although it will have a "prayer area.") that isn't that much further from ground zero. Will relatives of those killed in 9/11 destroy that one too?

[rowech]

Wow...I'll shutup...I'm continually amazed at how naive people are. I can't wait for this country finally to collapse and people to stand around and ask "what happened"

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by rowech

It's not the meal...it's the mosque. At some point, common sense has to rule over some PC garbage. That mosque has no busines being there. Period. It's an insult to every single person who knew anyone killed there. Period. It's a victory marker. Period. Don't tell me and others we need to be tolerant of this shit. Common sense has to take over at some point and him going in there to tell people to be tolerant of what's taking place is insulting.

Every single person? Is an Islamic community center insulting to those Muslims who had relatives in the WTC killed by those who use parts of their religion for their hate crimes? I think THAT was the real insult to them.

Do you think an Eastern Orthodox church in Russia and a Evangelicalist church in Topeka are the same exact religion as well?

[JPhillips]

How many blocks away would be acceptable?

edit: Do you really want the federal government to have the power to step in and overrule local authorities and stop a private property owner from building a legal house of worship because of public pressure largely from people that don't live close to the site?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by rowech

Wow...I'll shutup...I'm continually amazed at how naive people are. I can't wait for this country finally to collapse and people to stand around and ask "what happened"

I think it is much more likely (though both are a bit of a stretch) for this country to collapse from spending shitloads of money on wars and national defense then from Muslims gaining a "stronghold" in lower Manhattan. History seems to show quite a few empires collapsing from overspending on their military.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Every single person? Is an Islamic community center insulting to those Muslims who had relatives in the WTC killed by those who use parts of their religion for their hate crimes? I think THAT was the real insult to them.

Do you think an Eastern Orthodox church in Russia and a Evangelicalist church in Topeka are the same exact religion as well?

Agree completely with part I.

Part II is an example of equal ignorance in my opinion.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by panerd

Agree completely with part I.

Part II is an example of equal ignorance in my opinion.

I am not saying the differences in religion are of the same level as the example necessarily. But anyone who thinks that all branches and masjids in Islam are the same are very much mistaken. There is greater variance in Islam than just Sunni and Shiite.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by rowech

Wow...I'll shutup...I'm continually amazed at how naive people are. I can't wait for this country finally to collapse and people to stand around and ask "what happened"

I'm continually amazed at how ass-backwards and bigoted some people are.

[miked]

Originally Posted by rowech

Wow...I'll shutup...I'm continually amazed at how naive people are.

This is probably the most intelligent choice. Maybe you should take your postings to the Jesus is great, Islam is the devil thread. Still don't know what people building a mosque near ground zero has to do with Obama, unless I'm missing some new Michelle Bachmann/Ann Coulter bit.

[Noop]

Opening up a muslim mosque near ground zero is not intelligent at all. That iman had to know that there would be backlash and that it would stir a lot of feelings against the proposed mosque. I have nothing against muslims but they have no business opening up a mosque within sight of the World Trade Center site.

This has nothing to do with the first amendment in my opinion because this screams of a publicity stunt.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Noop

Opening up a muslim mosque near ground zero is not intelligent at all. That iman had to know that there would be backlash and that it would stir a lot of feelings against the proposed mosque. I have nothing against muslims but they have no business opening up a mosque within sight of the World Trade Center site.

This has nothing to do with the first amendment in my opinion because this screams of a publicity stunt.

Again, there already is one separate from the group that is looking to build the Islamic community center. And their "mosque" has been on that same block in Manhattan near current ground zero for 40 years. They had to move on that block to a smaller space because of financial difficulties recently, so their center can't accommodate their full numbers. (See: hxxp://masjidmanhattan.com‎ )

So, in other words, there have been Islamic prayer and community centers in the WTC area for longer than there was a Twin Towers. The existing mosque had to move to a smaller location nearby, and can't service all the local Muslims that would like to gather there. Sounds to me like if any place could use an Islamic center....

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Noop

This has nothing to do with the first amendment in my opinion because this screams of a publicity stunt.

There's not a first amendment exception due to publicity stunts FWIW.

And this is hardly a publicity stunt.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by SteveBollea

I'll say this about Dubya. Unlike many in the GOP, I don't think he truly hated other people like some in the GOP obviously do. He didn't take the obvious way out of blaming all Muslims for 9/11, his war on Iraq while looking bad was more about some weird personal vendetta (I have no doubt if Kim Jong Il would've tried to kill his Dad, we would be in North Korea), and he didn't have the antipathy toward Hispanics. Katrina wasn't a racial thing, it was a class thing. I just don't think he understood how people couldn't get out New Orleans in time.

I agree with this. I also think W could be a compassionate and open minded guy on a personal level. I just think he was surrounded by unilateral thinking Nixon bred sleazebags in Cheney and Rove.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by cartman

So the First Amendment is now "PC garbage"? Last time I checked, Al Qaeda wasn't the one building the mosque, it was a long time American imam, who preaches interfaith communication.

Amen. I can't stand the liberty despising, hate-filled idiots who have to make it their personal crusade to prevent a Muslim community center dedicated to moderate Islam and interfaith communication built a few blocks from the WTC site... a site which probably needs this more than anywhere else.

I wonder how people became so freedom hating in the US.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I agree with this. I also think W could be a compassionate and open minded guy on a personal level. I just think he was surrounded by unilateral thinking Nixon bred sleazebags in Cheney and Rove.

We can say the same thing about Obama!

[Flasch186]

yup cheney & rove are there at the WH every day.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

yup cheney & rove are there at the WH every day.

Well, I'm with ya in ignoring Joe Biden...but there's good ole Rahm and Jarrett that should not be overlooked.

[Flasch186]

no offense but I think Obama is much more responsible for the things that go on than W ever was. W's inner circle, IMO, carried much more weight with him than Obama's inner circle does, so for better or worse Im much more willing to hang responsibility for the good and bad that goes on directly on Obama than I was when I painted the Admin as bad under W.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I'm continually amazed at how ass-backwards and bigoted some people are.

's okay, I'm continually bewildered by how naive some people are.

You'll get there, it's the next step after "amazed" I think.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I wonder how people became so freedom hating in the US.

I wonder how people became too stupid to recognize an enemy when it stares them in the face & screams its intentions.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by rowech

I can't wait for this country finally to collapse and people to stand around and ask "what happened"

Well there you go, you do have something in common with the terrorist

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I wonder how people became too stupid to recognize an enemy when it stares them in the face & screams its intentions.

We all know that your definition of "enemy" is ridiculous, which pretty much invalidates your point.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SteveBollea

Don't worry DT. If there's a higher power and he has a sense of karmic justice, Jon's kid will fall in love with a nice liberal, vegan, Muslim, bisexual girl. Or boy for that matter.

[Passacaglia]

Of course, I guess the Muslim's parents would most likely be with Jon on this one, since they're not exactly down with teh gays either.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I wonder how people became too stupid to recognize an enemy when it stares them in the face & screams its intentions.

Are you speaking about Muslims or religion as a whole?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

We all know that your definition of "enemy" is ridiculous, which pretty much invalidates your point.

Hear hear!

To Jon, my cousin in Seattle, who is a patriotic American and Muslim, and has assimilated to US culture, speaks English better than most whites, is a associate at a law firm in Seattle. is "the enemy" and his father, who is a retired Colonel in the US Army and a practicing Muslim is "the enemy".

[lungs]

Kill all the moooslims!

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Hear hear!

To Jon, my cousin in Seattle, who is a nice liberal, vegan, Muslim, bisexual girl...

Those are really popular suddenly!

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

speaks English better than most whites

That's a pretty close minded racist thing to say...

[molson]

They should just make everyone happy and make the area a big Christian shrine.....I'm sure that would work out.

I don't understand quite how this area became on track to become a Muslim "prayer area" or whatever, but let the free speech win out. City, state, federal government shouldn't keep any otherwise lawful religious institution out, but at the same time, people have the right to try to protest or engage in whatever lawful means they can come up with to keep it out.

I'm sure we'd see plenty of discontent from the far left if the area became "too Christian".

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

To Jon, my cousin in Seattle, who is a patriotic American and Muslim, and has assimilated to US culture, speaks English better than most whites, is a associate at a law firm in Seattle. is "the enemy" and his father, who is a retired Colonel in the US Army and a practicing Muslim is "the enemy".

Amazing - all that and he could legally beat his wife if he lived under an Islamic state!

I certainly wouldn't consider him the "enemy", but if he's all that "patriotic", I'm not sure how strict a Muslim he's being. (Not that you have to be patriotic to live here).

And I'm not anti-Muslim. I just had one living in my house for the last 3 days. My biggest problem with him was this lack of a concept of time, but I'm down whit whatever religion he wanted to practice. (Even though I do find Muslim law pretty deplorable).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

We all know that your definition of "enemy" is ridiculous, which pretty much invalidates your point.

Sorry DT, but you're talking purely out of your liberal ass on this one. Or does Mr. Webster not suit you?

Main Entry: en·e·my
Pronunciation: \ˈe-nə-mē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural en·e·mies
Etymology: Middle English enemi, from Anglo-French, from Latin inimicus, from in- 1in- + amicus friend — more at amiable
Date: 13th century

1 : one that is antagonistic to another; especially : one seeking to injure, overthrow, or confound an opponent
2 : something harmful or deadly
3 a : a military adversary b : a hostile unit or force

What element is missing? What simple word in plain black & white do you not understand?

Any American that would attempt to deny with a straight face that "enemy" is wholly applicable to Islam is either in denial, a damned fool, gullible beyond measure, or willfully acting in collusion.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I wonder how people became too stupid to recognize an enemy when it stares them in the face & screams its intentions.

My make believe God is better than your make believe God.

They have a right to build it and can do what they want with their land. But it's still a dick move in my opinions and basically trolling. I'm sure there are plenty of other areas they can create their Mosque and tell fairy tales and sprinkle pixie dust on each other.

[Flasch186]

i think it is the generalization that leaves the door open to valid discord. You use it while, for the most, part generalizations are inaccurate when dealing with humans almost always. But you know that anyways...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

Amazing - all that and he could legally beat his wife if he lived under an Islamic state!

The Bible has just as much stuff in it like this. Selling your daughters into slavery, stoning people for working on weekends, even justified rape of virgins (after you kill all the children and married women). I could go on and on with what the Bible condones and demands of people.

This shouldn't be a "Islam causes a shit ton of problems" discussion. It should be a "religion causes a shit ton of problem".

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm sure there are plenty of other areas they can create their Mosque and tell fairy tales and sprinkle pixie dust on each other.

Careful, you may start getting death threats for speaking poorly about that "religion". At least you didn't draw a damn picture... WTF? Are we still in the dark ages?