Werewolf LVII: Cathedral (GAME OVER!)

[Neon_Chaos]

I sense that the Lord is near...

[Neon_Chaos]

...and, wow. We don't get to find out who the fuck is telling the truth.

[Abe Sargent]

Blast it, now we have to go through another day of this crap instead of everybody figuring out what is going on and moving on.

[Passacaglia]

Man, maybe I shouldn't have bothered. I guess Alan put that order in sometime in the morning, and didn't get back in time to change it.

[path12]

Wow. I take it this will be an interesting night.

[saldana]

that sucked. that may have been one of the worst plays ever.

[saldana]

dola...what that should say is,

unless alan is a demon, that is one of the worls plays ever.

reason i say that is, OK, alan is going to say he put in his order before he left and thought he was going to be back in time, but ended up not making it back before 10.

but where is he now....why hasnt HE posted that explanation yet.? when i have been a wolf in the past and gotten caught doing something wolfish, I ususally just shut up and dont say anything...i dont admit to anything, i dont vehemently deny anything...i just let silence speak for me.

[Barkeep49]

You awake to find that the demons have wrought some revenge upon the Cathedral.

Left to do:

Walls - Finished
Roof - Completed - May not be further damaged
Windows - Finished
Artwork - Completed - May not be further damaged
Carpentry - 6 units of work

[Alan T]

Ugh, sorry guys I screwed up I have actually been putting in conditional duke orders every morning just in case I couldn't get back.. yesterday just sucked.

I want to share a bit about how my role works, its a little different than normal but have to ask Barkeep what I can and can't say about it (since some parts I was told if I spoke of it, I would lose the ability). I'll drop him a PM to ask what I can and can't say.

I'm feeling a little bit defeated, I think I was completely wrong to distrust Cronin now (same as Lathum), I should have stuck to my initial instinct about Path and Anxiety, and just think I have played a lousy game all around. Anyways, I guess I'll start up what should have happened yesterday... We need to kill Anxiety, Path and Neon.

Vote Anxiety
Vote Anxiety

[Alan T]

Dola, I dropped BK a PM.. I'll be around until about 1pm I think today EST.. After that I'm gone all weekend likely until either late sunday night or monday some time.

[Alan T]

Ok, barkeep sent me a PM saying I can talk about my restrictions and role a bit. I'm not quoting the entire thing obviously, and everyone will be able to see the full PM if/when I die anyhows.

I am the Lord Leige
I like the way people respect me
I am not going into details about who or how or when I could duke someone, its obvious that I could/can. There is an interesting twist that I am leaving out in case it is useful later.

Day 1 & 2 I can not duke anyone unless it was to save myself.
As I am a powerful lord, I should leave the meaningless work to the peasants. On days 1 & 2 I have to make at least 1 vote each day (ie: I am not allowed to work twice on any area). Days 3 onwards, I am not allowed to work on any area of the cathedral.

If I speak of any of these restrictions before day 3, I will lose my powers completely.


Thats probably the best summary I can provide without outright quoting my PM in a ungamesman way.

[PurdueBrad]

Well, I've been trying to figure this out overnight. I'm concerned that for the villagers, we may genuinely be approaching an end game situation now depending on the number of demons. I am more than happy to continue to work on the carpentry, which we should be able to finish yet again, but does that even help now? Are we at the point where we need to lynch a demon to keep the game going? I'll hold off this time on submitting my moves until I see some discussion on what is our best course of action.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

We need to kill Anxiety, Path and Neon.

I guess we know Alan is a demon then, because I know I'm not.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

I guess we know Alan is a demon then, because I know I'm not.

That is the only reply you have? No explanation of how you possibly were duped the first several days defending Anxiety? No explanation of how even though he is bad you were misled? No effort at all to try to even save face a little bit?

For whatever its worth, you had finally convinced me that you were ok this game. You definitly played a much different style game than in the past when you were bad. I'll love to hear the explanation for what happened days 1 & 2 that prompted your strategy. We can talk about all of that once the game is done.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Well, I've been trying to figure this out overnight. I'm concerned that for the villagers, we may genuinely be approaching an end game situation now depending on the number of demons. I am more than happy to continue to work on the carpentry, which we should be able to finish yet again, but does that even help now? Are we at the point where we need to lynch a demon to keep the game going? I'll hold off this time on submitting my moves until I see some discussion on what is our best course of action.

I think this will require a lot of finesse on all sides. We want to be sure of killing Anxiety, but also want to make sure we can get the cathedral repaired.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think this will require a lot of finesse on all sides. We want to be sure of killing Anxiety, but also want to make sure we can get the cathedral repaired.

I agree.. I've placed two votes on Anxiety, I think we need at least 7 in total to make sure to lynch him. There are what 10 of us alive? Thats 20 total actions. We need 6 to comlete the cathedral again, and probably want an extra 2 just in case of foul play.

I think if we assume the demons have 6 actions, that leaves us with 14. We need to use 7 for anxiety and 7 for the cathedral and then hope for the best I guess. I think its far more important to lynch Anxiety today than anything though, so getting the 7th vote there is important.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I agree.. I've placed two votes on Anxiety, I think we need at least 7 in total to make sure to lynch him. There are what 10 of us alive? Thats 20 total actions. We need 6 to comlete the cathedral again, and probably want an extra 2 just in case of foul play.

I think if we assume the demons have 6 actions, that leaves us with 14. We need to use 7 for anxiety and 7 for the cathedral and then hope for the best I guess. I think its far more important to lynch Anxiety today than anything though, so getting the 7th vote there is important.

We also need to worry about Neon Chaos. On the other hand, do we really think the wolves are going to out their entire team to save Anxiety?

[Alan T]

I just went back and counted.. looks like we have 11 people left:

Evil:
Bishop: Neon Chaos
Butcher: Anxiety
Peon: path12

Good:
Lord Leige: Alan T
Page: oliegirl
Friar: saldana
Blacksmith: Pass
Shepard: st.cronin

Unknown:
Goldsmith: Mr. Wednesday
Mason: Schmidty
Carpenter: PurdueBrad


Based on the three bad people pretty much being outed at this point, I am assuming the three unknowns are also all good right now. Otherwise I think numberwise we would have lost the game last night. (Assuming there were 3 angels, 3 demons and 1 convert).
If there are 4 demons left, we actually need 9 votes on anxiety to be safe, if only 3 demons then we need 7 votes on him to be safe.

If there are 4 demons and we put 9 votes on Anxiety, that leaves us only 5 actions to finish the cathedral and it won't get done. If there are 3 demons and we put 7 votes on Anxiety, that leaves 9 actions for the cathedral and we're all set in both places..

Obviously today its more important to kill Anxiety than finish the cathedral though, I think we need to make sure that is done without room for foul play.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

We also need to worry about Neon Chaos. On the other hand, do we really think the wolves are going to out their entire team to save Anxiety?

Aren't they already outed? Neon was actively campaigning to save Anxiety yesterday under his ruse as the bishop. Path already has saved Anxiety a few times this game. At this point its end game and I am guessing they will do whatever they need to win if possible. I think we have to assume that there are 3 demons and its those three. So we need to put in actions to guard against that many demons.

[Passacaglia]

The thing about path is that he helped finish the Cathedral.

[Passacaglia]

And I'm not sure we can trust olie's reveal. It could be that she would have been a bodyguard, if not for being a demon. So she knows that no one else has that role, and it's a safe reveal.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

And I'm not sure we can trust olie's reveal. It could be that she would have been a bodyguard, if not for being a demon. So she knows that no one else has that role, and it's a safe reveal.

You are grasping at straws Pass...I'm a villager and I'm the bg. Show me one thing I've done to hurt the village...we have 3 people who are pretty much confirmed as bad, don't go looking for trouble where trouble doesn't exist.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

You are grasping at straws Pass...I'm a villager and I'm the bg. Show me one thing I've done to hurt the village...we have 3 people who are pretty much confirmed as bad, don't go looking for trouble where trouble doesn't exist.

Two votes for cronin last night?

[oliegirl]

When everyone else had votes on Cronin, and I specifically stated that I was leaving about 7:15 or 7:30 and would be gone til after deadline so I would NOT be able to move my vote.

Had I been around last night when everything happened and the information became available, I would have moved my vote.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

When everyone else had votes on Cronin, and I specifically stated that I was leaving about 7:15 or 7:30 and would be gone til after deadline so I would NOT be able to move my vote.

Had I been around last night when everything happened and the information became available, I would have moved my vote.

You asked me to show you one thing you've done to hurt the village, and I showed you two.

Anyway, I'm just exploring all our options -- I don't think path being evil is a done deal. You can buy trust by putting in work on the cathedral -- that way we'll know you're not going to vote to save Anxiety.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

You asked me to show you one thing you've done to hurt the village, and I showed you two.

Anyway, I'm just exploring all our options -- I don't think path being evil is a done deal. You can buy trust by putting in work on the cathedral -- that way we'll know you're not going to vote to save Anxiety.

BS, you showed me on - I cast both votes together. Don't be an ass on this - other than last night's vote, I've not done ANYTHING that would hurt the village, and my saying I wouldn't be around last night should clear me from anything regarding my vote.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

BS, you showed me on - I cast both votes together. Don't be an ass on this - other than last night's vote, I've not done ANYTHING that would hurt the village, and my saying I wouldn't be around last night should clear me from anything regarding my vote.

Cool. Then why not put some work in on the Cathedral?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

That is the only reply you have? No explanation of how you possibly were duped the first several days defending Anxiety? No explanation of how even though he is bad you were misled? No effort at all to try to even save face a little bit?

Save face? Because I didn't realize that my brother might be something else? OMG, getting played in werewolf, that's never happened before, however will I recover?!?

The thing is though that I believe Neon's interpretation of his code word. It was formatted properly whereas I could see if there is a chance that Neon's message to Gabriel could have been leaked that maybe there were some differences in translation, like punctuation.

So if I've been misled so badly, I might as well keep it going. I'm on Neon's and Anxiety's side. Your duke was bad, you've been a top suspect in my mind all along, and I think that whatever side you're on I'm on the opposite.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I just went back and counted.. looks like we have 11 people left:

Good:
Bishop: Neon Chaos
Butcher: Anxiety
Peon: path12
Page: oliegirl

Evil:
Lord Leige: Alan T
Blacksmith: Pass
Shepard: st.cronin

Unknown:
Goldsmith: Mr. Wednesday
Mason: Schmidty
Carpenter: PurdueBrad
Friar: saldana

Fixed that for you.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Cool. Then why not put some work in on the Cathedral?

This really applies for all the questionable folk around here. It would definitely send a message that you're not going to vote to save anxiety later if you put in some work on the cathedral, which you can't change.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

Fixed that for you.

Thanks, I appreciate the help!

[path12]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

When everyone else had votes on Cronin, and I specifically stated that I was leaving about 7:15 or 7:30 and would be gone til after deadline so I would NOT be able to move my vote.

Had I been around last night when everything happened and the information became available, I would have moved my vote.

Are you serious? Why exactly would you believe Cronin rather than Anxiety? Don't let them lead you into a bad decision.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Cool. Then why not put some work in on the Cathedral?

Because I would prefer to save my votes until later to make sure both my votes aren't needed to get a demon tonight. If I put a work order out now and then something happened and we lost a demon b/c there weren't enough votes, you'd jump my shit for voting early and tell me it was a wolfish move.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

Save face? Because I didn't realize that my brother might be something else? OMG, getting played in werewolf, that's never happened before, however will I recover?!?

The thing is though that I believe Neon's interpretation of his code word. It was formatted properly whereas I could see if there is a chance that Neon's message to Gabriel could have been leaked that maybe there were some differences in translation, like punctuation.

So if I've been misled so badly, I might as well keep it going. I'm on Neon's and Anxiety's side. Your duke was bad, you've been a top suspect in my mind all along, and I think that whatever side you're on I'm on the opposite.

You have got to be kidding me.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by path12

Are you serious? Why exactly would you believe Cronin rather than Anxiety? Don't let them lead you into a bad decision.

Should have said I might have moved my vote...when I voted for Cronin it's b/c I was voting with NC, thinking he was good...when the rest of the information came out, I might have rethunk my vote.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

This really applies for all the questionable folk around here. It would definitely send a message that you're not going to vote to save anxiety later if you put in some work on the cathedral, which you can't change.

We still need either 7 or 9 votes to kill Anxiety and keep others from switching. I think if we finish the cathedral but Anxiety is not lynched, we might not make it another day for the win. If we lynch anxiety but the cathedral is not finished, it means they then have to kill at night just to keep up pace, and we hopefully have a chance to block the night kill.

I think we have to ensure that Anxiety is getting lynched with at least enough votes that people can't change their votes later to save him today. That to me is the most important thing for the day.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

We still need either 7 or 9 votes to kill Anxiety and keep others from switching. I think if we finish the cathedral but Anxiety is not lynched, we might not make it another day for the win. If we lynch anxiety but the cathedral is not finished, it means they then have to kill at night just to keep up pace, and we hopefully have a chance to block the night kill.

I think we have to ensure that Anxiety is getting lynched with at least enough votes that people can't change their votes later to save him today. That to me is the most important thing for the day.

I agree with this. That's why I want the questionable people to put in the work on the cathedral, so that the known goods can be the ones to take care of Anxiety.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Because I would prefer to save my votes until later to make sure both my votes aren't needed to get a demon tonight. If I put a work order out now and then something happened and we lost a demon b/c there weren't enough votes, you'd jump my shit for voting early and tell me it was a wolfish move.

There's enough votes available by known good people that we'll be okay.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I agree with this. That's why I want the questionable people to put in the work on the cathedral, so that the known goods can be the ones to take care of Anxiety.

Keep working it. Maybe you'll fool someone.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

Keep working it. Maybe you'll fool someone.

Fool someone into what?

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

There's enough votes available by known good people that we'll be okay.

You play your way and I'll play mine, I'm not going to be forced into doing something before I'm ready to do it. Cast your votes/work actions now if you want to, but I want to wait.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

You play your way and I'll play mine, I'm not going to be forced into doing something before I'm ready to do it. Cast your votes/work actions now if you want to, but I want to wait.

Hey, I'm not forcing you to do anything. I'm just telling you how you can help the village.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Hey, I'm not forcing you to do anything. I'm just telling you how you can help the village.

I will help the village, just as I have done during the whole game.

[Neon_Chaos]

Alan, I have stated my reasons for voting for st.cronin yesterday.

You do know that you made of the dumbest plays in the history of werewolf? Right? Good. As long as we're clear on that.

I never campaigned for anyone to vote with me. I just voted with my gut. You can't disappear for the rest of the day when there was a crucial vote going on, and then start calling out the people who ACTUALLY were there.

You're wrong about me.

Just also want to say, because I revealed my ability to talk to Gabriel yesterday, I apparently lost it permanently and couldn't talk to him anymore. So, whether it's st.cronin or Anxiety, I really don't give much of a rat's ass.

We could have figure out who Lucifer was yesterday, and it's your fault we don't. Don't make dumb assumptions when you were gone the entire day yesteday and fucked everything up.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I will help the village, just as I have done during the whole game.

Good! You said a few minutes ago that you want to wait -- can I ask what you're waiting for? I mean, what could possibly happen between now and deadline that would change your mind about what action to take?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Alan, I have stated my reasons for voting for st.cronin yesterday.

You do know that you made of the dumbest plays in the history of werewolf? Right? Good. As long as we're clear on that.

I never campaigned for anyone to vote with me. I just voted with my gut. You can't disappear for the rest of the day when there was a crucial vote going on, and then start calling out the people who ACTUALLY were there.

You're wrong about me.

Just also want to say, because I revealed my ability to talk to Gabriel yesterday, I apparently lost it permanently and couldn't talk to him anymore. So, whether it's st.cronin or Anxiety, I really don't give much of a rat's ass.

We could have figure out who Lucifer was yesterday, and it's your fault we don't. Don't make dumb assumptions when you were gone the entire day yesteday and fucked everything up.

And my reveal, with no counter, is still meaningless to you?

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Good! You said a few minutes ago that you want to wait -- can I ask what you're waiting for? I mean, what could possibly happen between now and deadline that would change your mind about what action to take?

I could ask you the same question Pass...why haven't you voted yet this morning, or started working on the Cathedral? So far only AlanT has used his votes today, yet you are only jumping on me about why I haven't voted????

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

And my reveal, with no counter, is still meaningless to you?

Until we figure out who the hell Gabriel is, yes.

I know you might be telling the truth, Pass, but how do I know that you're not a demon who lucked out that Michah isn't in this game?

The only way I'll know is if either st.cronin or Anxiety dies and we figure out who the hell is Gabriel or Lucifer.

You have to look at it MY way. If this was normal werewolf, I would have been more inclined to believe your reveal.

As it is, why would an angel try to save another angel and slay a demon by revealing himself, when it's clear that slaying the demons aren't in the angels' major victory condition?

The only reason I can see someone saying that he's an angel to save someone is if he's actually a demon, and buying some time to save Lucifer so they can get the right numbers against the villagers.

I'm sorry Pass. But I have to stick with my gut.

[oliegirl]

DOLA - and I already told you why I was waiting in post 1083, but in case it wasn't clear...it's because in this game, nothing is ever as it seems until the game is over. For all we know there is someone out there with a hidden agenda that we don't know about yet. For all we know, someone is going to cast votes for someone for an unexplainable reason and last minute votes will be needed to ensure we lynch a demon tonight. I'd rather not cast my votes this early and then be in a position where I can't help.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I could ask you the same question Pass...why haven't you voted yet this morning, or started working on the Cathedral? So far only AlanT has used his votes today, yet you are only jumping on me about why I haven't voted????

Sure, I'll step up.

WORK ON CARPENTRY
WORK ON CARPENTRY

And for the record, I wasn't jumping on you about why you haven't voted. Defensive much? I was saying that you can help gain trust from the village, if you put work in on the Cathedral.