FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If you go back to that discussion, I'm nearly* certain you'll find me saying something close to that very thing.


*I know I said it on FB because I remember the heat I took for it from some quarters. That makes it seem pretty likely I said roughly that here as well

I couldn't remember if it had been brought up in this thread or not (and wasn't going to go back through 20 pages to find out). Probably shouldn't have doubted your rigidity and universal scorn.



It does get me though that many will defend that bunch (white) for "standing up to power-hungry federal oppressors", while vilifying others (black) for daring to question authority.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I get tired of people telling me that, despite repeated instances just like the one depicted in this video, that I can't be pissed that this kind of stuff is happening to people.

Name one person who says you can't be pissed about it. Hell, name one person who isn't pissed about it.

[JPhillips]

This:

****Holding breath waiting for calls for no justice, no peace****

does not equal this:

I get tired of people telling me that, despite repeated instances just like the one depicted in this video, that I can't be pissed that this kind of stuff is happening to people. We should be pissed off that these people were attacked, right? We should be pissed off that the act happened, not the race that was involved, right? Responses to my post only proved my point of posting it.

Your first post was not condemning the act, but the supposed lack of protest against the act. You're smart enough to know the difference.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

This:


does not equal this:



Your first post was not condemning the act, but the supposed lack of protest against the act. You're smart enough to know the difference.

Why weren't there protests? It's a fair question. I think we all know the answer here, but no one wants to say it? Why? Because a double standard exists because we're not judging the action in each case, regardless of race. But yet we're conditioned that it's not OK to present it as such.

[cartman]

Because one instance is of an authority figure accused of abusing their authority, and the other is an example of street crime?

[JPhillips]

I have trouble keeping track of all this.

Blacks can't complain about violence perpetrated by whites unless they offer equal anger towards violence perpetrated by blacks against whites.

So whites shouldn't be able to complain about blacks perpetrating violence against whites unless they offer equal anger towards whites perpetrating violence towards blacks.

And don't even get me started on Asians.

I guess all violence complaints are illegitimate?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I have trouble keeping track of all this.

Blacks can't complain about violence perpetrated by whites unless they offer equal anger towards violence perpetrated by blacks against whites.

So whites shouldn't be able to complain about blacks perpetrating violence against whites unless they offer equal anger towards whites perpetrating violence towards blacks.

And don't even get me started on Asians.

I guess all violence complaints are illegitimate?

No, no and no. People should be outraged in all instances because an action is wrong, not because of race.

Edit: I'd add that the media is REALLY not helping in these instances. They're generally highlighting the idiots in these instances in their search for anyone's opinion rather than sticking to the important points in the situation.

[JPhillips]

Nobody is defending the actions of the kids in the video.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by cartman

Because one instance is of an authority figure accused of abusing their authority, and the other is an example of street crime?

This.

But I imagine this is too complex for MBBF.

Well, either it's too complex a distinction or he's just a hideous human being. Take your pick.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Edit: I'd add that the media is REALLY not helping in these instances. They're generally highlighting the idiots in these instances in their search for anyone's opinion rather than sticking to the important points in the situation.

If only they were a little more high minded.

****Holding breath waiting for calls for no justice, no peace****

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

This.

But I imagine this is too complex for MBBF.

Well, either it's too complex a distinction or he's just a hideous human being. Take your pick.

We have video of Mr. Brown committing an assault during a robbery. Why aren't we upset about that? Because he assaulted a defenseless man instead of a woman?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

We have video of Mr. Brown committing an assault during a robbery. Why aren't we upset about that? Because he assaulted a defenseless man instead of a woman?

Because it was such a horrible assault that the store never contacted the authorities?

[chadritt]

*Whoooosh* that's the sound of literally everyone's point going over your head

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by chadritt

*Whoooosh* that's the sound of literally everyone's point going over your head

Explain to me what you think is going over my head. I'm open to reasonable discussion (which I usually associate with your posts).

[chadritt]

Honestly I've seen at least three people tell you that it's a lot about the authority figure angle of it and you just keep ignoring it. You can't compare an incident of three teenagers being horrible awful human beings to an incident of a cop doing the same and wonder why there's a different reaction.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by chadritt

Honestly I've seen at least three people tell you that it's a lot about the authority figure angle of it and you just keep ignoring it. You can't compare an incident of three teenagers being horrible awful human beings to an incident of a cop doing the same and wonder why there's a different reaction.

Well, MBBF said the store clerk was an authority figure as well, so it isn't surprising he doesn't get it.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

he demonstrated quite well in the video how he similarly shoved a figure of authority in the shop when challenged.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by chadritt

Honestly I've seen at least three people tell you that it's a lot about the authority figure angle of it and you just keep ignoring it. You can't compare an incident of three teenagers being horrible awful human beings to an incident of a cop doing the same and wonder why there's a different reaction.

But why is it more of a story? Here's what we have (putting general rumors aside).

Kid committed a crime. Not long after that, was involved in a different altercation with a police officer that resulted in him being shot several times. Officer is put on the sidelines pending an investigation. Story of officer and direct witness differ. Case is put before grand jury.

What the hell is there to be outraged about? Due process takes time. You can't just lynch the guy. In the end, it's just another criminal case and a huge learning experience for the knuckleheads in Ferguson who are in their police department.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

In the end, it's just another criminal case and a huge learning experience for the knuckleheads in Ferguson who are in their police department.

Just to be clear, what is it you are considering as "just another criminal case"? Normal criminal cases don't end up with the police shooting someone. It appears you are trivializing a police officer shooting as the actions of "knucklehead" police officers.

[JPhillips]

People should be outraged in all instances because an action is wrong, not because of race.

What the hell is there to be outraged about?

?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

?

I don't understand what the continued outrage in this instance was. The cop was immediately suspended with pay and they took it to a grand jury. There's no reason for continued outrage at this level IMO if the process was started.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Just to be clear, what is it you are considering as "just another criminal case"? Normal criminal cases don't end up with the police shooting someone. It appears you are trivializing a police officer shooting as the actions of "knucklehead" police officers.

It's another criminal case. This guy is going to jail for a significant period of time if he did overstep his bounds. It's ridiculous to assume that cops are some how emboldened to overstep their bounds more often after seeing this situation.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I don't understand what the continued outrage in this instance was. The cop was immediately suspended with pay and they took it to a grand jury. There's no reason for continued outrage at this level IMO if the process was started.

So we should be outraged at blacks attacking a white couple, even before the judicial process plays out, but we shouldn't be outraged at the Brown case because the judicial process hasn't played out?

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I don't understand what the continued outrage in this instance was.

This is why there is continued outrage.

[larrymcg421]

Why is there no White Entertainment Television, NAAWP, or White history month?

[Logan]

This is shocking even for him.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So we should be outraged at blacks attacking a white couple, even before the judicial process plays out, but we shouldn't be outraged at the Brown case because the judicial process hasn't played out?

I understand protests. That's different than what happened here. I'm going under the assumption that people are reasonable enough to be able to resolve and protest these kinds of situations without looting and burning down businesses. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

[JPhillips]

Because if a few blacks act badly it invalidates the protests of those that don't?

I know I don't listen to the Tea Party complaints because frat boys rioted after the NCAA Championship.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It's another criminal case. This guy is going to jail for a significant period of time if he did overstep his bounds. It's ridiculous to assume that cops are some how emboldened to overstep their bounds more often after seeing this situation.

One of the issues is that more often than not, cops like this do not see any jail time -- they are protected by their union, departments, DAs, judges, representatives, etc.

You get shit like this - and obviously worse - happening regularly. So yeah, they're emboldened, because in a lot of places they have very little accountability.

You mentioned lynching. I thought about lynching the other day too; before the 60's, whites could lynch blacks with relative impunity (and smile and have a grand old time doing it). That thankfully is no longer acceptable - but "justified" use of force still is, and is seen by many as a similar attempt at subjugation, just rebranded and shined up a bit.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

One of the issues is that more often than not, cops like this do not see any jail time -- they are protected by their union, departments, DAs, judges, representatives, etc.

You get shit like this - and obviously worse - happening regularly. So yeah, they're emboldened, because in a lot of places they have very little accountability.

You mentioned lynching. I thought about lynching the other day too; before the 60's, whites could lynch blacks with relative impunity (and smile and have a grand old time doing it). That thankfully is no longer acceptable - but "justified" use of force still is, and is seen by many as a similar attempt at subjugation, just rebranded and shined up a bit.

Which makes this a difficult situation. If the guy gets jail time, justice delivered. If he doesn't, just another killer cop getting away. That's a no win, right?

[cuervo72]

It's not a matter of every cop who is involved in an incident being convicted. It's a question of actually having a chance at justice, rather than each instance being hidden away, internally "investigated" then swept under the rug. That's why there was a big to do about seeing an incident report (of the fatal shooting, and not of a supposed theft). How many uncelebrated cases even have reports written and released? The disturbing thing is that we don't even know because fatalities aren't consistently tallied. That's why there's a protest. If you don't make a big stink, it's business as usual until the next dead black man.

And if deaths aren't always brought to light, what about lesser incidents and aggressions like the guy tasered for hanging out near the bank (where the police said they "used the force necessary") or the elbowing above? No chance they are addressed. Especially if it is a cop's word against yours. White America believes the cops (and supports the cops, and makes a point of letting it be known that's the case). Unless of course there is video evidence of what went down (witnesses aren't enough, as we're seeing in Ferguson - too easy to dismiss and discredit them). And even then, the deck is stacked in the favor of the authorities.

[Blackadar]

New video shows witnesses at the scene during and right after the shooting that corroborates what was said by other witnesses.

New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene - CNN.com

[Groundhog]

Yeah, but clearly the eye witnesses recorded on video expressing disbelief at Michael Brown being gunned down with his hands up hadn't yet seen the video of him pushing a store attendant and stealing cigars or the video of the black guys beating up on the white guy and girl in the video of the other unrelated incident.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yeah, but clearly the eye witnesses recorded on video expressing disbelief at Michael Brown being gunned down with his hands up hadn't yet seen the video of him pushing a store attendant and stealing cigars or the video of the black guys beating up on the white guy and girl in the video of the other unrelated incident.

Excellent use of sarcasm. 10/10

[cuervo72]

Not Brown-related, but relevant to the argument to why SWAT shouldn't go all balls-to-the-wall whenever they enter a residence.

FBI — The Crime of ‘Swatting’: Fake 9-1-1 Calls Have Real Consequences

'Swatting' no prank to video game celebrities - Chicago Tribune

Video Captures Colorado Cops Swarming in 'Swatting' Prank - ABC News

Yep, prank SWAT calls are apparently a thing now.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

15 Year Old Who "SWATTED" Gamer Convicted Of Domestic Terrorism; 25 Years To Life In Federal Prison - National Report | National Report

That should read: Gamer Convicted Of Domestic Terrorism; 25 Years To Life In Federal "Pound Me In the Ass" Prison just for the Office Space reference.

Also, it's not true. http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/swatted.asp

PS - National Report is not real news. It's a crappier version of The Onion.

PSS - that doesn't mean that SWATTING isn't a real thing. Just not in this particular case.

[cuervo72]

Ok, I was just grabbing links and didn't vet each one. Was prompted to do so after ABC had a segment on it in their nightly news broadcast about some other guy who had been brought in on similar charges. Story wasn't online at the time but is now.

Young Prankster in Court for 'Swatting' | Video - ABC News

[Blackadar]

Another week, another young man gunned down.

Log In - The New York Times
Autopsy report shows police shot Darrien Hunt in the back, lawyer says | MSNBC

In short, 22 year old man was walking around with a decorative samurai sword. Cops are called (even though walking around with a sword isn't an illegal act) and confront the guy. Something happens - cops said he threatened them with the sword - and the shooting ensues. Except the guy was some distance (as much as 100 yards) from the confrontation point - supposedly confirmed by a photograph - and he was shot 6 times. In the back.

Yeah, that happened. An independent autopsy showed that all 6 shots hit the man from the rear.

[cuervo72]

They say he brandished the sword and lunged at the officers, at which point they opened fire on him.

Right. Toy sword vs. armed police. Uh-huh.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Right. Toy sword vs. armed police. Uh-huh.

Lunging from 100yds away?

[flounder]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Lunging from 100yds away?

You have to look at this situation from the officer's viewpoint. He could have been a teleporting ninja. Better safe than sorry.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by flounder

You have to look at this situation from the officer's viewpoint. He could have been a teleporting ninja. Better safe than sorry.

Or could been a crazy guy with a sword trying to get away. If he gets away and kills someone it is the cops fault.

[RainMaker]

It's odd how all these shootings involve a victim with a history of being violent.

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's odd how all these shootings involve a victim with a history of being violent.

I must have missed it, what is the cosplaying kids violent history?

[RainMaker]

Was arrested and pled guilty to assault, child abuse, and public intoxication earlier this year.

But I'm sure he was just a great guy who was doing nothing and 2 white cops decided they were going to kill the first black guy they saw in broad daylight and it was just a complete coincidence he had a giant sword on him.

I know cops overstep their bounds but please pick cases that are a little better than this to prove the point. Don't pick the one with a weapon and violent history.

[chadritt]

Thanks, I hadn't read much on this particular kid.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Another week, another young man gunned down.

In short, 22 year old man was walking around with a decorative samurai sword. Cops are called (even though walking around with a sword isn't an illegal act) and confront the guy. Something happens - cops said he threatened them with the sword - and the shooting ensues. Except the guy was some distance (as much as 100 yards) from the confrontation point - supposedly confirmed by a photograph .

Here is a photo before the shooting. I am not offering an opinion on the validity of the shooting since there are still a lot of facts that need to come out, but this is hardly 100 yards away and from this distance he is close enough to strike one of the LEO's with whatever weapon he had.

Accounts on the weapon range from a blunt edge Katana to a 2.5 foot steel blade.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Here is a photo before the shooting. I am not offering an opinion on the validity of the shooting since there are still a lot of facts that need to come out, but this is hardly 100 yards away and from this distance he is close enough to strike one of the LEO's with whatever weapon he had.

Accounts on the weapon range from a blunt edge Katana to a 2.5 foot steel blade.

Even if it's a 2.5 foot steel blade, that's apparently legal.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Here is a photo before the shooting. I am not offering an opinion on the validity of the shooting since there are still a lot of facts that need to come out, but this is hardly 100 yards away and from this distance he is close enough to strike one of the LEO's with whatever weapon he had.

Accounts on the weapon range from a blunt edge Katana to a 2.5 foot steel blade.

I don't know if you read it, but note that the body was quite a ways away from this initial point of confrontation where the picture was taken. If so, right after this photo was taken he ran, the police chased him and shot him in 6 times in the back (which is what eyewitnesses have said). Note that the police themselves have already changed the account of the shooting and called into question any "lunging".

Darrien Hunt Update: Authorities Change Account Of Police Shooting

The Katana was a 2.5 foot steel blade, but with a rounded edge. The police could have mistook this for a real weapon easily enough. It's pure speculation, but the guy might have attempted to show the police that the blade was blunt and unsheathed it. That would explain the "two 2x4's in his hands" that an eyewitness saw - one being the blade and the other the scabbard. Once the blade was out, the guns came out and the guy ran. Shots were fired and now he's dead.

Note that Utah is an Open Carry state. You can walk down the street with a semi auto gun and no one will bother you. All the cops can do is ask for your ID to verify your age. But a sheathed blunt katana is not reason to be stopped. So I'm wondering why someone called 911 - was this guy acting irrationally before the police showed up? I think that will be a big key to this whole case.

In short, I still haven't passed judgement. But the police better have an ironclad reason for shooting someone 6 times in the back (should that remain a fact).

Rainmaker, where did you see the criminal record? I can't find anything which substantiates your post above. I'm sure you have a good source, so please link it.

[BYU 14]

I agree Blackadar they do need solid justification, which is why I am not jumping to defend the police at this point. I am only speculating, but from the time this photo was taken, he could have made a threatening move towards the officers with the weapon, they drew and he took off, they then fired feeling he could be a danger to others. (If they did get a call saying he was acting irrationally)

He apparently was into cosplay (something to do with anime) and if he just purchased the sword, could have been walking down the street playing with it, which could have appeared alarming. Really want to know more about this part of it. Also, living in Utah for so long guns on a hip would barely get a second glance, as long as they weren't being brandished in the air, while the scenario above would draw much more concern.

I really want to hear more of the witness testimony here.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Note that Utah is an Open Carry state. You can walk down the street with a semi auto gun and no one will bother you.

Even after everything that's happened, I forget that this is a thing that exists in the USA. Yikes.