WW 103? - 42 Attempts (Game Over - Conspirators Win)

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Well, I wouldn't call it out of the blue. The only reason you weren't put up on the block earlier was because people assumed you would be scanned. Now that the seer is dead, people are returning to you. That seems perfectly normal to me.

Ding ding ding.

Especially since the seer's final post in the thread was:

Originally Posted by Telle

But we still don't know for sure if CR is a villager or a wolf, so that analysis is flawed.

I'm going to follow Chief Rum with the second candidate. I'm just really not liking this run on ntn.

vote The Jackal

As I said before, the only reason why I left CR as a candidate before was that I thought he was a scan target. Now, I don't know if Telle was trying to send us a message with her statement about not knowing if he's good or not, but it's possible. I think this, coupled with the fact that there we NO wolves on CR on day one (5 villagers and NO wolves!) is a good reason to vote for him.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Bah. You're no fun.

But since we don't have a separate mod in this forum now, can we post boobie pics instead?

That's up to Danny, our mod to be.

I'm guessing that he is at least. There has been no response from Ben about this.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

That's up to Danny, our mod to be.

I'm guessing that he is at least. There has been no response from Ben about this.

Here's one that is at least on topic.

[KWhit]

Sorry for that, by the way.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Looking at post counts, PurdueBrad is far and away the fewest, with 24. Kwhit, Schmidty and J23 are pretty much clumped around 40. I would expect to find at least one if not two of the wolves in this quiet bunch. Given the job the village has been doing lynching, there's no real reason for wolves to stick their necks out. We all know that the more a player says the more likely someone will find something wolfish about them.

I have not been part of the "quiet bunch." Remember that I couldn't post at all for a whole day because of the bomb thing.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by KWhit

No, I don't think so. After being talked down to, called obtuse, repeatedly told that I don't know how to read, I think I'm being quite civil actually.

I'm more incredulous at your anger and condescension than anything. It's bizarre that you're all pissed off at me because I think it's possible that you might be lying in a werewolf game. It would be funny if you weren't being so insulting about it.

Seriously. It's WW. "That's not what I meant" is typically not an ironclad defense when someone is questioned about something they said.

You can defend yourself as strongly as you want, but why the hell do you have to be so insulting about it?

I'm sorry you don't understand, KWhit. Isn't it enough to know that you have pissed me off?

It's clear from your response that I was unclear in my analysis. I'm sorry for that. I should have been more clear. It was a lot of writing late at night.

My main issue has been that, since then, you have taken that unclear writing and taken liberties with what I wrote to establish to me what my opinion was and what I was writing. And when I tell you, you're not reading it correctly (whether because of me or because of you), and explain to you what I mean, you ignore that and continue down the path you set. And now you justify it for "WW" reasons, because I must be lying.

If there's one thing you need to understand from this, KWhit, it's that I don't lioke being told what I mean. I know what I mean. I wrote it. So when I tell someone what I mean, it's not about "lies" and "playing werewolf". It's literally me saying, "This is what I meant."

So when I tell you that, and you tell me repeatedly, "No, you mean this." What am I supposed to do about that? Someone's telling me what my words mean. How on Earth would anyone else know better than me what I meant about something I wrote. It was your cock-sure assumption of your own correctness and your complete rejection of my attempts to explain what I meant and to correct anything that might have been unclear from what I first wrote, that's where the anger comes from. That's where I see stubborness in you, obtuseness, your unwillingness to listen.

I am sorry for being angry and condescending, I truly am. I don't want this game to devolve into something ugly (or uglier). But you have really hit on something in this game that has set me off. If you want to me I'm lying, fine. That's WW. But don't tell me what I meant when I said something. You're not in my head, and you don't know that. When I tell you what I meant, that's what I meant, and yuo don't have the right or the knowhow to tell me I meant something else.

Now if you had said, Chief, you're unclear in your analysis, and it looks like "this" to me, and then asked me to explain if that's what I mean, that's one thing. But you made assumptions and went on instant attack. You never listened to me when I tried to clarify what I was saying, or to point out where you might have misread what I wrote (or I might have miswrote what I thought).

So, again, I am sorry for all this, and that is an unqualified apology. I know I was in the wrong to react as I have done, and yuo don't deserve that.

But, please, don't tell me you're innocent in all this, and that you did nothing wrong. That would be the worst insult you have said yet in this thread if you did that.

This is the last I will post on this matter until after the game (and God willing, won't need to after either).

Also, sorry, EF, for the digression.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Well, I wouldn't call it out of the blue. The only reason you weren't put up on the block earlier was because people assumed you would be scanned. Now that the seer is dead, people are returning to you. That seems perfectly normal to me.

As for the other, all I can say is I've seen plenty of games, even in my more limited time, where that has not been the case. I think it might have been The Office game somewhat recently where we pursued that route and lynched *a lot* of villagers, eventually discovering that on multiple days all the wolves had been on the same person, and in several cases that person was a wolf. It's one way you might find a wolf, yes, or yet another way to find a villager. I think the wolves are just as aware of the "spread the vote" technique as we are. If they can milk it for one or two more easy villager lynches, they will. When I'm gone, I guess youll just go after PB. Perhaps he's the actual wolf there, but if not we'll have lost the game, if it's not lost tonight.

It is abit out of the blue, actually, when I wasn't discussed for two days and then a string of posts put me right back up. But I digress, we don't really need to discuss the definition of the term "out of the blue".

As I said before, I'm not saying I shouldn't be a candidate, as I am just as uncleared as anyone. But I see your reasoning as a bit faulty, mostly becuse you're not considering how the Day One vote happened. I wasn't in any danger at all until the very end of that vote. It seems reasonable, if I were a wolf, that another wolf might have a vote on me, so to say later, hey, look my vote was on a wolf. The only DT vote after the run on me was myself, in self-defense. So not like wolves ran to my defense. All other candidates were villagers, too--no reason for the wolves to all be on DT, and none of them on me, especially when I had two votes only until ten minutes before deadline.

Your rational is not without founding. But I feel looking strictly at the vote results and not how it happened is ignoring some key information in how that developed.

As for the rational for you, yes, there are exceptions, but this feels more like an exception that proves the rule. By and large, splitting the vote, especially on Day One, is a standard and reasonable WW tactic, and it's a compelling reason, IMO, to consider you.

[The Jackal]

My goodness. Tempers running high in the Nazi party.

[Schmidty]

Just woke up, and am catching up.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So if you're reading condescension and annoyance and anger, for the first time this game, you're right. I am pissed at you and at the way you have continued to read my posts. And you deserve all that because you keep doing it even after I tell you you're reading it wrong.

Huh????

It's WW and you think someone should believe you just because you say so?

I'm even sure that I like the votes on you, but come on Chief.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Got it. Thanks for reminding me to take a break after this, and never play one in which you're in again.

Come on buddy. No need to get this upset. Be upset, but don't quit or personally attack someone.

I'm scared to vote for you now. damn.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Huh????

It's WW and you think someone should believe you just because you say so?

I'm even sure that I like the votes on you, but come on Chief.

Yeah, I addressed this a little more further down, Schmidty. Hopefully more clearly. That wasn't about WW stuff. That's about me writing something and someone else telling me what I mean, not about the game itself.

In any case, hope when you catch up you'll understand. It's not something we really need to continue to get into at this point.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You have four votes for rational reasons. It's standard WW practice to split your votes when you're a wolf team. You and PB are the only two uncleared players remaining who did not vote for DT. It's a legitimate line of pursuit to consider one or both of you as wolves. That is why you have four votes right now.

Very true, Chief.

I'd vote PB, but I think we need to stick to one person. This is of course subject to change:

Vote Autumn

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Come on buddy. No need to get this upset. Be upset, but don't quit or personally attack someone.

I'm scared to vote for you now. damn.

Oh, and vote away, if you feel I am a wolf, of course.

Although that will only lose the village.

[Autumn]

Well, I will reserve my vote for now, I guess. I know I'm not a wolf, and all the other candidates seem like possibilities to me. I'll probably end up voting in self defense if it stays like it is.

That said, I would probably go either Chief, since as *many* (not just me or KWhit or whoever) said a few days ago, was a very good lynch candidate if not for the likelihood he was scanned. The day after the seer dies would be a good time to revisit him.

Other than that I would actually probably go either Abe or PB. They're both very under the radar, Abe had a couple votes that could be questionable. I think Jackal is a decent suspect too. But with the number on me right now I'll wait and see who comes out as a second suspect (presuming the village isn't foolish enough to not develop a second suspect).

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

My goodness. Tempers running high in the Nazi party.

I know. I'm actually shocked since Nazis are usually such level-head and reasonable bunch!!!!

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yeah, I addressed this a little more further down, Schmidty. Hopefully more clearly. That wasn't about WW stuff. That's about me writing something and someone else telling me what I mean, not about the game itself.

In any case, hope when you catch up you'll understand. It's not something we really need to continue to get into at this point.

Ok, got it. Now I'm not scared anymore. I can vote you if I want, without fear of internet death!!!

(Sorry for all the smilies)

[PurdueBrad]

I'm disappointed to not be at the meeting today but I completely understand. I'll be out for a bit as I'm getting an MRI today but should be on this evening.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I know. I'm actually shocked since Nazis are usually such level-head and reasonable bunch!!!!

Apparently, I no speak the English.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yeah, I addressed this a little more further down, Schmidty. Hopefully more clearly. That wasn't about WW stuff. That's about me writing something and someone else telling me what I mean, not about the game itself.

In any case, hope when you catch up you'll understand. It's not something we really need to continue to get into at this point.

I appreciate the apology. I'm sorry for my part as well.

I had a big long post trying to explain a bunch of stuff, but I think this short version sums it up better.

Of course you knew what you were trying to say when you first posted the analysis. I never said otherwise (that WOULD be obtuse). All I was saying was that you could be lying. That's it.

I wasn't trying to tell you what you meant. If anything, I was saying for the purposes of the others in the game, "This is what he could have meant." That's all. Normal ww stuff. I obviously wasn't clear on that. So I am sorry that I didn't do a better job of stating that. I'm sure that part of the misunderstanding is due to the fact that I felt that I needed to quickly and strongly defend myself (since PB immediately put a vote on me due to your analysis).

But seriously, I was never trying to tell you what you meant. I mean, that doesn't even make sense.

So let's move on with the game. I promise to no longer be obtuse if you promise not to be a dick (I'm saying this totally tongue in cheek, btw, so please don't yell at me).

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Very true, Chief.

I'd vote PB, but I think we need to stick to one person. This is of course subject to change:

Vote Autumn

Sticking to one person is exactly the wrong idea. you guys, those of you who are not wolves, are letting the wolves just slip in, throw a vote on the runaway candidate and slip out. Tomorrow when I'm dead and cleared, you'll look back and not be able to get any analysis on guys like Schmidty because they weren't forced to propose a candidate, back up their thinking or put their necks out. Meanwhile you're lynching me for actually working at winning the game, sticking with my votes, or trying to catch wolves jumping ship. (Yes, I know those of you who are not wolves think you're voting me because not every wolf would be on DT. But in actuality you're voting me because I stuck with my initial vote instead of piling on to DT.) Tomorrow I suppose you'll ignore the people who piled onto me and vote for whoever didn't vote to lynch me?

At the very least, make it a real runoff. Day 5 is not a good time to have two nearly meaningless lynch votes in a row.

[The Jackal]

I don't disagree with what Autumn just said. I don't know if this will make a difference, but:

VOTE PB

[J23]

You agree with Autumn and then put your vote on a 4th candidate?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by J23

You agree with Autumn and then put your vote on a 4th candidate?

There are votes on people besides Autumn? I didn't realize that. What's the count?

[Autumn]

I think there's one on Chief and one on you, Jackal.

[The Jackal]

Alright.

UNVOTE PB

VOTE CR

[Abe Sargent]

I don;t think CR reacts like he did against KWhit if he's a wolf.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I don;t think CR reacts like he did against KWhit if he's a wolf.

You're probably right about that. I think either way Autumn should be the one going down, and to be honest leaving room for movement might not be the best plan. Even if the wolves can hide their votes there, we've got plenty of voting history to work with.

UNVOTE CR

VOTE AUTUMN

[The Jackal]

I'm also doing that now because unfortunately again I'll be out from 5:30 onwards. I guess night deadlines don't work well for me during weeks when I have a social life! I'll check back in tomorrow.

[Abe Sargent]

When is the meeting deadline?

[EagleFan]

As of post 1080:

Autumn 6 - Danny (979), PurdueBrad (1016), Abe Sargent (1020), Chief Rum (1028), Schmidty (1063). The Jackal (1078)
Chief Rum 1 - KWhit (1021)
The Jackal 1 - J23 (1035)

Yet to vote: Lathum/saldana, Autumn

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

When is the meeting deadline?

7 PM EST

[J23]

So, noone wants to try to engineer the vote to put up two of the people we are looking at for a tie and double lynch?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by J23

So, noone wants to try to engineer the vote to put up two of the people we are looking at for a tie and double lynch?

Didn't Danny mention that earlier, and was totally shot down? Personally, I think it's a bad idea. The way we're going, we'd probably kill two villagers and screw ourselves.

Having said that, I still believe Autumn is likely a wolf, so I won't be moving.

[The Jackal]

Danny was shot down with that idea yesterday or the day before when we had a higher pool of villagers to choose from and very little solid info. We still don't really have any info, so I don't see it gaining momentum.

[EagleFan]

Meeting results up shortly.

[EagleFan]

Hitler again changes schedule as the last minute. The meeting is held early as his unpredictability has historically been what has kept him alive.

Everyone makes their way into the room to discuss the events of the meeting.

As the meeting begins...

"We must push the invasion back to the see. We will attack." Declares Hitler.

As he continues his speach, one of you notice that something isn't right. There is an extra briefcase on the table.

"Wait!!!!"

It's too late. A thundering explosion rocks the room...

[Autumn]

whoa, I forgot about the meeting. This doesn't sound good.

[saldana]

i really dont like the one sided vote on autumn, there should at least be some other candidate around to see if we can get movement, and since i am not sold one either one more than the other

vote CR

[EagleFan]

You search through the rubble, hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

Some of you are alive but you see two bodies laying motionless. You approach. The first body is that of Himmler. He is breathing but in serious condition. He is rushed to the hospital and placed in the ICU.

The second body is turned to get a better view. Everyone gasps and the face comes into view and you see the mustache. Hitler has been caught in the blast. You try to revive him but it is too late.

Hitler has been killed. Abe Sargent has been killed.

Everyone has a lot of work ahead of them to repair the damage this will cause to the Reich. A power struggle has begun.

More details to come.

[Autumn]

A disappointing day indeed. We're actually all unaffected by bomb blasts and available and yet there's still no real debate. Even if you guys think I'm a wolf, I'm clearly not hte only one and it would be somehow to your benefit to put another person up and either get two wolves on the block, or see who tries to move off of me. Your plan doesn't make any sense whether I'm a wolf or a villager. You're letting the wolves just sit on me and not have to work at winning this game. An odd choice.

Hopefully the bomb blast doesn't finish us off before you even get a chance to reconsider the vote. How likely is it that you have a wolf on the block and no one is interested in offering other suspects?

[Autumn]

Oh crap. That's about the worst possible result.

[Schmidty]

Can things get any freaking worse?

[Abe Sargent]

Ah well, fun game all

[saldana]

ok, so does that mean that one of these must be stauffenberg (sorry still a little hazy on the whole meeting/explosion mechanic)?

Danny
J23
Lathum/saldana
KWhit


since we know danny was himmler, and I know i am not stauffenberg, that makes it a toss up

unvote CR
vote J23

[Autumn]

If we were 6-4, we're now 5-4 and Danny's life is holding the game on a thread. We got lucky last blast with all three of us surviving, I don't know if that will happen again.

I can implore you, we can't have any possible room for my lynch now. Errggg.

[Autumn]

I don't have much of any read on J23. But he did just suggest a tie lynch, which if we picked wrong might have won the game for the wolves right there.

[saldana]

to answer my own question, i guess it could have been Elser's delayed detonation too? do we have any way of knowing if the previous bomb was stauffenburgs or elsers?

[Schmidty]

I think that someone in that meeting is Stauffenberg, as Lathdana said. Especially since he somehow got Hitler.

We know it's not Danny, so it's got to be one of the other 3. Not sure who.

For now:

Unvote Autumn

[Chief Rum]

My main issue with going with J23 is that he could have put it in a tie on Day two and killed both myself and DT, but he didn't do it. Of course, that's a perspective I alone can know for sure, since the rest of you doubtless still don't trust me. But in my mind, KWhit is a more likely wolf than J23, going on evidence so far.

But here's the kicker: KWhit was at the last meeting. J23 was not. If KWhit is Stauffenberg, why didn't he kill Hitler at the first meeting?

We should probably go back and look at Lathum/saldana again, too, although I recall I felt fairly strong that Lathum was a good guy.

I also think Maurice needs to come out now. We need to rule someone out. The sooner they came out, the more likely someone else can counter if they're not.

As for Autumn, I mostly went off of Danny picking out Autumn, because we can't afford dissension and being open to vote changes with so many wolves out there. But the same reasoning that applies for Autumn also applies for PB, and I actually felt PB was more likely to be a wolf (I am pretty sure at least one wolf was at the last meeting, and if it's not KWhit or Telle, it would be PB).

But changing things at this point would be extremely hard. we have a bare majority, so we need to be in agreement.