Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sooner333

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...s.html?sid=101

This is starting to get more interesting. Looks like there's maybe some smoke. The Pac 10 realizing they have to act fast, otherwise the crown jewel of their expansion plans might have already jumped ship. It also helps explain why Texas Tech...the political risk, while maybe not all real, is certainly high enough not to risk it.

MBBF--what do you think Texas going to the Big Ten does to Missouri? If they took Notre Dame and Texas who is the 14th team? I don't think they go to 16 if they get those two. If it's A&M, that's bad for the rest of us.

I don't think A&M is the package deal that everyone thought it might be. My understanding continues to be that Mizzou officials KNOW that they will receive an invite. The uncertainty continues to be who those other teams will be. Let's assume that I'm correct for the sake of the discussion. If the Big Ten were to land Notre Dame, Texas, and Mizzou, they would land a 'national' team in ND and would essentially steal the top two TV markets (by state) in the B12 footprint and put them in their conference. That would make perfect sense given what we know about their goals with expansion.

The Pac 10 is going to land some good teams regardless of what Texas does. There's plenty to choose from in the West depending on what their priorities are.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Is the meeting still tomorrow?

The Big 12 meeting today should provide plenty of drama. Ah, to be a fly on the wall............

[RendeR]

I just wish they'd get it the fuck over with. I'm tired of waiting.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Clear message from the Big 12 membership today regarding the Big 12 Basketball Tournament site. They have awarded the 2012, 2013, and 2014 tournaments all to Kansas City.

Message: Don't leave. Here's a bone to keep you happy since we're moving the football championship permanently to Dallas.

Big 12 awards Kansas City with men's, women's basketball tourneys - KansasCity.com

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The Washington AD is speaking out of his ass if he thinks that. There's no way in hell that all 12 B12 members and all of the P10 merge together. It's not going to happen.

He didn't say it was going to happen. He said it was among the things being discussed, which is probably true. Still waiting to hear what the "concensus" plan is.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Big Ten expansion: E-mails hint eyes are upon Texas | BuckeyeXtra

This is starting to get more interesting. Looks like there's maybe some smoke. The Pac 10 realizing they have to act fast, otherwise the crown jewel of their expansion plans might have already jumped ship. It also helps explain why Texas Tech...the political risk, while maybe not all real, is certainly high enough not to risk it.

MBBF--what do you think Texas going to the Big Ten does to Missouri? If they took Notre Dame and Texas who is the 14th team? I don't think they go to 16 if they get those two. If it's A&M, that's bad for the rest of us.

The PAC-10 is expanding. The original thought was Colorado and Utah. Since Texas started letting themselves be courted by the PAC-10, that pushed up the ante

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good interview of Chris Brown (OrangeBloods.com) if you're interested. Go to the following webpage and the interview is listed under the 'Between the Lines' section of the page.........

Sports Radio 810 WHB / Podcasts

Quick summary of some of his comments.......

-The six teams previously mentioned will receive a Pac-10 bid and will have 6 months to make their decision.

-OU and A&M are leery of Texas's need for their own network. Both of those schools will require that Texas abandon any school network aspirations before they consider the Pac-10 membership offer.

-A&M has already talked with the SEC about possible membership.

-Missouri will get a bid to the Big 10. Nebraska may not.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The Washington AD is speaking out of his ass if he thinks that. There's no way in hell that all 12 B12 members and all of the P10 merge together. It's not going to happen.

So says the expert in speaking out of one's ass.

Here's the full context of the quote:

"There is an enormous amount of speculation about conference expansion right now and I think with the Pac-10 that anything is possible, all the way from remaining with the status quo, where we are today, to a full merger with the Big 12 and anything in between," Woodward said Thursday afternoon. "All possibilities are viable and open for discussion."

And there's no reason to think that's not true. A "full merger" could simply mean that the two conferences join forces in terms of TV and bowl negotiations and schedule regular cross-conference games in all their major sports.

Even if the Pac-10 goes big and tries to add 6 more teams, it would really be 2 conferences operating as one entity - the teams in the Pac-8 would probably not be playing teams in the Southwest-8 very frequently.

Texas is clearly the big prize out there that both the Big Ten and the Pac-10 want. Tech certainly would get left behind otherwise, so which ever conference takes Texas has to take Tech too. A&M is good enough on their own that they could probably move to another BCS conference without being strictly tethered to Texas and Tech, but they will likely be offered along with Texas and Tech.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I've seen the arguments, but I just don't see how the Pac 10 expansion forces the Big Ten to do anything. Even with six new teams, the Pac 10 is not going to be making as much, per team, as the Big Ten teams.

Television dollars are driving expansion. As digamma articulated above, the Big Ten is probably near or at peak efficiency/value, while the Pac 10 and Big 12 are/were looking to catch up. Unless a new team or set of teams grows the Big Ten's pie, they have little reason to feed another mouth(s).

I wouldn't be so sure that the Pac-10 can't catch up to the Big Ten in terms of revenue when they negotiate their new TV deal(s) if they are able to pull of a major expansion that includes Texas...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I wouldn't be so sure that the Pac-10 can't catch up to the Big Ten in terms of revenue when they negotiate their new TV deal(s) if they are able to pull of a major expansion that includes Texas...

That estimate is already out there. It was mentioned in the interview I linked a few posts back. The estimate is that the "Pac 16" would land a contract that would pay each team roughly $20M/year. So not quite as much as the Big Ten, but definitely an improvement over what those Big 12 members are getting right now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

And there's no reason to think that's not true. A "full merger" could simply mean that the two conferences join forces in terms of TV and bowl negotiations and schedule regular cross-conference games in all their major sports.

The full merger option is out the window at this point. The attempt to make that merger and the behind the scenes discussions between the AD's at those meetings are apparantly the driving force behind the breakup of the Big 12. That's where the invitations to the 6 teams came up. As was mentioned in the interview, I don't think there's any question that the Pac 10 went to those meetings and realized that a non-conference merger would be a disaster given the inept leadership in the Big 12.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The full merger option is out the window at this point. The attempt to make that merger and the behind the scenes discussions between the AD's at those meetings are apparantly the driving force behind the breakup of the Big 12. That's where the invitations to the 6 teams came up. As was mentioned in the interview, I don't think there's any question that the Pac 10 went to those meetings and realized that a non-conference merger would be a disaster given the inept leadership in the Big 12.

I guess my point is let's not over analyze his words - when he says "full merger with the Big-12", he may well mean taking as many Big-12 teams in as makes sense, i.e. bringing in 6 teams rather than just Texas and A&M.

I don't doubt that the Big-12 is on the verge of losing teams - Mizzou wants in to the Big Ten, Colorado wants in to the Pac-10 - and Texas is the key to what happens to the rest of the conference if any teams start peeling off.

[DeToxRox]

Took this from another forum, I believe it's once again from UT's Rivals Site:

2:30 PM - I've been told by one of my sources Texas A&M could be an obstacle to future plans for the Big 12 involving the Pac-10 because the Aggies appear committed to exploring opportunities with the SEC.

Missouri, which has not hidden their interest in a possible Big Ten invitation, and Texas A&M appear to be two of the schools that weren't ready to make a commitment to the future of the Big 12.

Now, everyone goes on considering other options, and Dan Beebe's public stance that he feels "comfortable" about the Big 12 going through a "process" rings hollow.

"There's still a process we're going through but based on the conversations we had I think we're in a very good position," Beebe told reporters.

He said that process will "assure the solidification" of the Big 12.

Beebe emerged from the final day of Big 12 meetings in Kansas City to address the media and said he did not have a commitment from all 12 schools to remain together.

That's not good news.

Texas president Bill Powers, the chairman of the Big 12 Board of Directors (a rotating position that serves as the point person for the presidents and chancellors of the league), was supposed to address the media and didn't.

[MrBug708]

Found this on another site

--------------------------


Scene: It's lunchtime at College Football High School. And at CFHS, everyone eats together. Except for those short bus kids from the Sun Belt. They eat in a Teflon covered room and are only allowed to use spoons for safety's sake. But CFHS is not unlike any other High School in America, all the groups stick together. The Big Ten, PAC-10, SEC, ACC, and Big East all sit apart from one another at separate tables, telling each other how crappy the other tables are. Over by one of the windows we join Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech, all gussied up in their cheerleader uniforms, sitting down to lunch. As they get seated, their fellow cheerleader Colorado come running up....

Texas: A&M, you're such a whore.

A&M: Eat me *****, you got lucky. I'll be captain nex.....

Colorado: Ohmigod! Ohmigod! Ohmigod!

Oklahoma: What?

Colorado: You guys are. Not. Going. To. Believethisss.

Texas Tech: What!?

Colorado: Omigod! /almost faints from hyperventilating/

Texas: ***** if you don't tell me what the **** you're talking about I'm going to punch you in your ovaries.

/Oklahoma and Oklahoma State roll their eyes, but silently agree with Texas/

Colorado: Alright. Ready? I just heard that the six of us are totally going to be invited out by... wait for it.... the Pac-10! /squeals/

Texas Tech: Ohmigod! NO WAY!

Colorado: Yeah! It's totally true. We're all getting invites. No more of this Big XII bull****. And the best part is the PAC-10 guys are totally RICH!!

Oklahoma State: Thank God, I'm sick of hanging out with you *****es every Saturday. It's almost like someone makes us all hang out together, all the time. /glares at Texas/

Texas: Whatever, Colorado.

Colorado: What!? You're not excited?

Texas: Why should I be? I totally dated the PAC-10 a few years ago, but they're lahoosers. I could've gone steady with the PAC-10, or I could hang out with my girls. I totally chose you guys. /smiles fakest of all smiles/

Texas Tech: Don't give us that line of bull****. They dumped your ass after they found out your were stuffing your revenues bra.

Texas: **** you, Tech. I totally dumped them. You're just pissed off that you wouldn't even be in the flag corps much less a Big XII member Cheerleader if you weren't my cousin, so deal with it. And while you're at it, get me a Diet Coke, *****.

Texas Tech: /grumbles, goes to get Diet Coke, intends to spit in it first/



Oklahoma: So where did you hear about this? Spill it.

Colorado: I heard it from that guy! /points to unathletic CFHS newspaper geek/

A&M: From HIM!?

Oklahoma: Just from him? Are you ****ing kidding me? He doesn't know anything. That ******* told everyone I lost my head coach virginity to Notre Dame this summer. That's your source!?

Colorado: Calm down Oklahoma, it's not just him. Everyone's talking about it. I heard from people who were hanging out with the PAC-10 all week that this is totally going to happen.

Oklahoma State: Oh christ... here comes Iowa State.

/Iowa State rolls up in motorized wheelchair, dressed in cheerleader uniform/

Iowa State: /voice box crackles/ WHAT'S THIS CRAP I HEAR ABOUT YOU *****ES GOING OUT WITH THE PAC-10? WHY DO I HAVE TO HEAR THIS FROM TEDDY GREENSTEIN? I THOUGHT WE WERE FRIENDS. /static/

Colorado: Calm down Iowa State, we just found out about it. Sorry they didn't invite you to party.

Iowa State: I DON'T NEED YOUR PITY. WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE CHEERLEADING TEAM? /squak/

Texas: Nothing's going to happen to the cheerleading team Iowa State. No one is going to party with the PAC-10.

Colorado: WHAT!?

Texas: I've told you before, my Dad owns a dealership, and if you *****es want to have a nice car to drive around in and cool parties to go to, you're doing what I want.

Oklahoma: Whatever... /gazes off into the distance, wishes she were somewhere, anywhere else/

Oklahoma State: You know you're not the only one with money Texas. My Uncle Pickens left me some money too. I can get my own car.

Texas: Ha! A lot of good it's done you to. Even with the new practice facility boob job the best you can do is the Holiday Bowl. Ever think that if you weren't hanging out with me you wouldn't even get invited there? You were popular for a minute, but when everyone found out the twins were plastic it all went away, didn't it.

Oklahoma State: I hate you. /fights back tears/

Colorado: You're not ruining this for me Texas. I'm doing whatever I want.

Texas: Fine. Do what you want. But when you come back here trying to be friends, smelling like salmon and wear cords made out of hemp, don't think we're going to talk with you.

Iowa State: /chirp/ I KNEW WE'D ALL BE FRIENDS FOR EVER.

/Nebraska and Missouri, also in their cheerleading outfits, walk by with the Big Ten talking and giggling/

Nebraska: Hi everyone! We'll see you a practice. /Missouri waves, continues walking/

Iowa State: HI IOWA. YOU GOING TO CALL ME THIS WEEKEND? /crackle/

/Iowa shields face with hand, all his Big Ten friends laugh at him/

/Iowa State turns her wheelchair back to the table/

Iowa State: HE'S MY COUSIN. EVERY NOW AND THEN HE GETS DRUNK AND HE LETS ME MAKE OUT WITH HIM.

Colorado: Oh MY GOD, Iowa State. Shut up!

Iowa State: HEY COLORADO, REMEMBER BACK IN 2007 WHEN WE MADE OUT!?

Colorado: SHUT UP!

Iowa State: HA HA HA HA HA. I OWN YOU *****.

Oklahoma State: So what's up with Nebraska and Missouri hanging out with those Big Ten guys?

A&M: Oh my God, it's like Missouri can't get enough of them. All Missouri does is talk about how great the Big Ten is. All the Big Ten would have to do is say "Big Ten Network" "boo" and her legs would be in the air.

Texas Tech: Not like Nebraska's any different. Nebraska asked me what kind of thong is easiest to get out of. If the Big Ten asks, we'll never see those two again.

Texas: I don't like the Big Ten. A few years ago I thought we were friends but they totally blew me off. Now that my revenues boobs are big, they're all over me again.

A&M: It all comes back to you, doesn't it?

Texas: You got something to say, *****?

A&M: Yeah, I do. I've been talking with the SEC and I don't need this **** anymore.

Oklahoma: /in heaviest possible sarcasm/ You're going with the SEC?

A&M: That's right. Hi honey! /waves/

/SEC continues eating lunch, carries on as if crickets are chirping/

A&M: See, we're totally steady.

Oklahoma State: You're an idiot.

Texas: Oh jesus, is Kansas trying to sell test answers again?

/Kansas, seeing a teacher, quickly sits down at the Big XII table/

Kansas: Hey everyone, what's going on?

A&M: What the hell's the matter with you? Aren't you in enough trouble already?

Kansas: What are you talking about? I'm just supplying study supplements. There's nothing wrong with that.

Oklahoma: If by "study supplements" you mean the actual test key, then yes, there is something wrong with that.

Texas Tech: Look, just because you'll sell your panties to anyone with a dollar fifty doesn't mean you can do it. We've got reputations to keep here.

/whole table giggles/

Iowa State: HA HA HA HA

Colorado: I hate you Kansas. I can't wait to start hanging out with the PAC-10 so I never have to see your ass again.

Kansas: Yeah, I heard about that. Let me ask you a simple question, genius. Have you actually talked to anyone in the PAC-10 about this?

Colorado: Well... um... no.

Kansas: You're an idiot. And you're stuck with me *****.

/fin/

[DeToxRox]

Also, here is the letter regarding the Big 12 from Iowa State:

Iowa State president Dr. Gregory Geoffroy and athletic director Jamie Pollard posted a letter on the Iowa State athletic website Friday in regard to conference realignment. Here is the letter:

Dear Cyclone alumni, fans and friends of the University,

This week, we participated in the Big 12 Conference spring meetings in which a major topic of discussion was potential conference re-alignment. With the immense speculation and media attention given to this issue, we felt it was important for you to hear directly from us.

We believe the Big 12 Conference is the perfect fit for Iowa State University. We are committed to our membership in the Big 12, and we are optimistic that the conference will remain intact. However, we also recognize that the long-term viability of the Big 12 Conference is not in our control - it is in the hands of just a few of our fellow member institutions.

Iowa State and several other members of the Big 12 Conference are especially vulnerable under some of the re-alignment scenarios currently circulating, particularly one involving expansion of the Pac-10. We are doing everything in our power to represent the best interests of Iowa State in these discussions, but we also are sensitive to the huge uncertainty that has been created and recognize that the situation could evolve in directions that are not aligned with our interests.

We understand and share your concerns about Iowa State athletics and the Big 12 Conference. We are still optimistic that the Big 12 will remain intact and continue to be one of our nation's premier athletics conferences, but we must be ready to act if that does not prove to be the case. We will keep in touch as the situation unfolds, and we appreciate your understanding.

Go Cyclones!

Dr. Gregory Geoffroy
President

Jamie Pollard
Director of Athletics

[DeToxRox]

That letter from ISU is actually kind of sad. They are not even going to be a draw for a revamped Mountain West. Hello MAC?

[MrBug708]

I can see the new MWC looking like this

Air Force
BYU
SDSU
Fresno
Boise St
TCU
Kansas
KSU
Utah
TCU
Baylor
UNLV
UNR
Utah

CSU UNM UH look to be the big schools left out

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Found this on another site

Gold

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I've seen the arguments, but I just don't see how the Pac 10 expansion forces the Big Ten to do anything. Even with six new teams, the Pac 10 is not going to be making as much, per team, as the Big Ten teams.

Television dollars are driving expansion. As digamma articulated above, the Big Ten is probably near or at peak efficiency/value, while the Pac 10 and Big 12 are/were looking to catch up. Unless a new team or set of teams grows the Big Ten's pie, they have little reason to feed another mouth(s).

There was a good article I read last night estimating that an expanded Pac-10 (Pac-16) would get over 20 million per team with its own network as Los Angeles and Texas provide such huge markets. Along with rest of the teams, they would have 7 of the top 20 TV markets in the country.

[Eaglesfan27]

DTR,

I've also seen that Texas A&M is the most likely team to turn down the Pac-10. I'm sure a suitable replacement can be found if they choose to go in another direction.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

That letter from ISU is actually kind of sad. They are not even going to be a draw for a revamped Mountain West. Hello MAC?

I'm sure Conference USA is also going to be a consideration for some of these 'left out' schools. MWC and CUSA both have a chance to help themselves out a bit with these changes.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

DTR,

I've also seen that Texas A&M is the most likely team to turn down the Pac-10. I'm sure a suitable replacement can be found if they choose to go in another direction.

I think A&M is doing whatever they can to get in the SEC. Not sure why, but I just think it's the case. If so, I think Kansas would end up in the Pac 10, but I could be wrong.

[DeToxRox]

The latest from CFT:

Tweet: A&M coaches, staff told Pac-10 rumors are true
Posted by John Taylor on June 4, 2010 5:14 PM ET
If you're getting sick of the constant expansion speculation, you might want to stick a bucket next to your computer -- or move your laptop to a room that contains a porcelain fixture -- because it's not going to end anytime soon.

The latest proof?

Kirk Bohls of the Austin American-Statesman -- one of the most credible and respected writers in the business -- has sent out a tweet that will resonate and reverberate from College Station clear out to the West Coast.

"I'm told A&M AD Bill Byrne has told his staff, coaches the reports the Aggies may go to the Pac-10 are true, but he didn't return a call."

That first domino, she just wants to tip, doesn't she?

And still, well over 24 hours since it first appeared, we have yet to have any firm denials that the basic theme of the Orangebloods.com report -- that the Pac-10 was prepared/preparing to offer invites to Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Colorado -- is flat-out wrong.

Instead, this is now at least the third "confirmation" -- albeit one without an "official source" -- that the report is, in essence, factually true and is being discussed at the highest levels of the Pac-10. And will continue to be discussed in earnest this weekend as the league conducts their annual spring meetings.

And that's without even discussing the open letter from Iowa State's president and athletic director to Cyclone fans telling them that "the long-term viability of the Big 12 conference is not in our control -- it is in the hands of just a few of our fellow member institutions."

Gee, wonder who those few member institutions are?

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I think A&M is doing whatever they can to get in the SEC. Not sure why, but I just think it's the case. If so, I think Kansas would end up in the Pac 10, but I could be wrong.

I honestly have no idea what to think after all these stories we're seeing from the media. I think Kansas would like to stay tied to Texas for recruiting reasons. The big question for Kansas is would they split off from KSU? I know what Kansas officials have said regarding KSU, but I think if push came to shove Kansas would have to separate.

[Eaglesfan27]

Kirk Bohls of the Austin Statesman who reportedly is very connected with UT has said that he has a source who says it is 60/40 in favor of all 3 Texas teams joining the Pac-10. Seems to be a lot of smoke.

[BYU 14]

If the big 12 blows up I would hope the MWC picks up Kansas, K-State and Boise State.

Though to secure an AQ spot in the BCS Boise and Fresno State would be the better pickups, but the Kansas Schools bring the Hoops.

It will be interesting to see what happens. When all is said and done I think only Boise State joins the MWC, which still should get an AQ spot for the conference no problem since their record the last 2 years and next season will count.

[timmynausea]

Saw this reposted on a WVU board. I'm not even sure where it's originally from, I assume it's the Texas board that broke the original UT to Pac story:

Talked with a friend of mine that works in an athletic department for one of the Big 10 schools.

According to my source, the people that work within his athletic department of his school have been in contact today with members of the Big 10 athletic department, including Jim Delaney, and the word he have gave me was that there was a lot of uneasiness about our report yesterday
involving the Pac-10 making offers to six Big 12 schools.

"It completely caught (DeLaney) off-guard," the source said. "Let's just say they weren't ready for that and some have already started to ask whether the timeline of 12-18 months needs to change."

The source added that Texas has been the primary school in the Big 12 that Delaney covets and that the last 48 hours could impact the leverage of two other Big 12 schools.

"Our AD says that (Delaney's) eyes light up every time Texas is mentioned," the source said. "That's who he wants, but this recent report kind of opened some eyes about what we're really dealing with (in regards to Texas). The schools in the Big 12 that are interested in our conference, they have to know that there won't be any strong-arming the Big 10. They might get offers, but they dictate nothing and might receive nothing."

FYI, I'm supposed to talk with my source a little later this weekend and if there's anything new to report, we'll report it.

Combined with the leaked emails about how the Big Ten wants Texas but ran into a "Tech problem," it does seem like Delaney and co. might be seeing this blow up in their face a little bit. I think they expected to possibly be competing with the SEC, but the PAC 10 is making a smart move and trying to steal their Texas thunder. Then again, if this move goes through, and it forces ND to the B10, they'd likely be happy with the end result anyway.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I think A&M is doing whatever they can to get in the SEC. Not sure why, but I just think it's the case. If so, I think Kansas would end up in the Pac 10, but I could be wrong.

If A&M says no the Pac-10 will then ask Utah to replace them. It give Colorado a "travel partner" and gives the new conference the Salt Lake City TV market too along with the markets they pick up in Texas.

[Swaggs]

I know this is a smart money move for the Pac 10, but I think it could end up being a pretty bad for the existing Pac 10 schools in football, particularly with USC having (at best) an unproven coach and going through restrictions.

The Pac 10 always seemed like a pretty cohesive group of schools (UCLA and USC banter aside). It will be interesting to see how Texas and Oklahoma (particularly Texas) try to fit in.

[MrBug708]

The PAC-10 is like the Bundy's (From MWC). They hate each other to no end, but generally speaking, have disdain for people from the outside talking down about the PAC-10. Since the schools are so isolated from each other, the smaller ones need the PAC-10 to exist.

As for football, they'll be fine.

[Izulde]

Yeah I think Boise State joins the MWC. I've been hearing it for quite a while now.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I know this is a smart money move for the Pac 10, but I think it could end up being a pretty bad for the existing Pac 10 schools in football, particularly with USC having (at best) an unproven coach and going through restrictions.

The Pac 10 always seemed like a pretty cohesive group of schools (UCLA and USC banter aside). It will be interesting to see how Texas and Oklahoma (particularly Texas) try to fit in.

USC is going to shock people this year. I think the new coaching staff has added a discipline that this team hasn't seen in a few years.

[DeToxRox]

Boise should get their offer at the MWC meetings this months from what I have been reading. Of course they would accept that asap I believe.

One thing I am curious about with this expansion is if Kansas is left to the MWC, would they be able to be an independent hoops team? I am not even sure that is allowed by the NCAA for hoops, but I am not going to pretend like I know a ton about that.

I just cannot see how Kansas playing in the MWC would even be fun, even if K-State and Baylor wind up in the conference. It'd be a blood bath 95% of their conference games.

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I just cannot see how Kansas playing in the MWC would even be fun, even if K-State and Baylor wind up in the conference. It'd be a blood bath 95% of their conference games.

KU would obviously be the best team, but I think that the other teams are better than you might think--definitely better than Memphis' opponents in the new CUSA. I also think that KU has a good chance of raising the bar in the league and those teams could step up to the challenge. New Mexico, BYU, and Utah are all solid teams. If you add in KU, KSU, and ISU or Baylor, I think that the league would be very strong--probably better than the SEC in hoops.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

One thing I am curious about with this expansion is if Kansas is left to the MWC, would they be able to be an independent hoops team? I am not even sure that is allowed by the NCAA for hoops, but I am not going to pretend like I know a ton about that.

AFAIK it's still allowed, there were six D1 indies last season in men's hoops (Seattle, Longwood, CS-Bakersfield, NC Central, Savannah State, , & SIU-Edwardsville).

Of those, only the last three have announced plans to join a conference, with NC-C and Sav State headed to the MEAC in 2010 and SIU-E already admitted to the OVC but keeping an indy schedule until the 2011-12 season.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

One thing I am curious about with this expansion is if Kansas is left to the MWC, would they be able to be an independent hoops team? I am not even sure that is allowed by the NCAA for hoops, but I am not going to pretend like I know a ton about that.

Actually there are (or were until last year) quite a few D-I independents in basketball. None of them were very good and while eligible for the NCAA tournament, never had any chance to make it. Most of them were transitional D-I members coming up from lower divisions, such as North Carolina Central or Texas-Pan American or North Dakota. Most of these independents eventually coalesced into a brand new league last year, the Great West (won't be eligible for an autobid until 2020, though).

At any rate, Kansas would be an interesting study because if they were to go independent for a bit, I don't think there could be a more powerful one in NCAA history and it seems legitimately possible that they could make the NCAAs without the challenge of playing in a conference wearing on them.

I do think, though, that Kansas could not last long as an independent. Without a conference, a team would face severe scheduling problems. Even one like Kansas who would face difficulties in getting anybody of serious clout coming to Lawrence except as a home-and-home series on occasion and especially not after other conference seasons start (who wants to go to Lawrence in the middle of a conference grind?). The Big 12 gave Kansas schedule strength and big home games because it meant that teams like Texas or Oklahoma or Missouri had to go to Lawrence every year or every other year. Without a conference, Kansas could not compel anyone to come to them unless they wanted to. Without the marquee matchups in the mid- and late-season over the years, it would be harder and harder for Kansas to recruit. So, Kansas, for it's long term health would need to find a conference fairly quickly. They could probably survive a year or two, but after that it's going to be tough. The best choices are not very palatable, but KU would need to suck it up some if they want to stay where they are.

At least they aren't K-State, Baylor, or Iowa State, though. Iowa State, especially, is in a really bad spot since Iowa can't really compel the Big Ten to let them in. The WAC might be willing to take them (they're already a stretched out league, so Iowa State isn't so ridiculous to include there), but the MWC is probably a longshot, especially if the MWC can land the Kansas schools. I'm not sure if Iowa State might not be better off falling back to I-AA in football and then moving to the Missouri Valley, for example. They'd be instantly competitive in all sports in that league and probably have a better chance of making the NCAAs than having to fight their way through the Big 12 every year.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Actually there are (or were until last year) quite a few D-I independents in basketball. None of them were very good and while eligible for the NCAA tournament, never had any chance to make it. Most of them were transitional D-I members coming up from lower divisions, such as North Carolina Central or Texas-Pan American or North Dakota. Most of these independents eventually coalesced into a brand new league last year, the Great West (won't be eligible for an autobid until 2020, though).

At any rate, Kansas would be an interesting study because if they were to go independent for a bit, I don't think there could be a more powerful one in NCAA history and it seems legitimately possible that they could make the NCAAs without the challenge of playing in a conference wearing on them.

I do think, though, that Kansas could not last long as an independent. Without a conference, a team would face severe scheduling problems. Even one like Kansas who would face difficulties in getting anybody of serious clout coming to Lawrence except as a home-and-home series on occasion and especially not after other conference seasons start (who wants to go to Lawrence in the middle of a conference grind?). The Big 12 gave Kansas schedule strength and big home games because it meant that teams like Texas or Oklahoma or Missouri had to go to Lawrence every year or every other year. Without a conference, Kansas could not compel anyone to come to them unless they wanted to. Without the marquee matchups in the mid- and late-season over the years, it would be harder and harder for Kansas to recruit. So, Kansas, for it's long term health would need to find a conference fairly quickly. They could probably survive a year or two, but after that it's going to be tough. The best choices are not very palatable, but KU would need to suck it up some if they want to stay where they are.

At least they aren't K-State, Baylor, or Iowa State, though. Iowa State, especially, is in a really bad spot since Iowa can't really compel the Big Ten to let them in. The WAC might be willing to take them (they're already a stretched out league, so Iowa State isn't so ridiculous to include there), but the MWC is probably a longshot, especially if the MWC can land the Kansas schools. I'm not sure if Iowa State might not be better off falling back to I-AA in football and then moving to the Missouri Valley, for example. They'd be instantly competitive in all sports in that league and probably have a better chance of making the NCAAs than having to fight their way through the Big 12 every year.

I think the best thing for ISU would be go to the MAC personally. They'd be in the thick of the conference in football and hoops, plus geographically it makes sesne.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

I don't think there could be a more powerful one in NCAA history .

Notre Dame in the 70's was pretty darned good. Marquette was an independent during the entire Al McGuire era, and on a lesser scale DePaul was independent during Rey Meyer's entire tenure there.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Notre Dame in the 70's was pretty darned good. Marquette was an independent during the entire Al McGuire era, and on a lesser scale DePaul was independent during Rey Meyer's entire tenure there.

Yeah, you're right. I knew there were some big guns in the 1970s, but completely blanked on whether they were independent or not. I still think Kansas would probably (during the first couple of years anyway) be better than those teams were as an independent.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Kansas is definitely one of the schools that could be on the outside looking in especially if other teams are packaged together (OSU and Texas Tech). I still hold out hope that the Pac 10 and Big 12 can work something out.

If we go "minor realignment"- Big 10 picks a couple off from the Big East and Big XII and no one else does anything, then the Big XII picks up a couple of TCU-level schools and moves on.

If we go 16 team mega conferences, Kansas is screwed. The Big 10 and SEC have the big sticks and no one can pick off anyone from their revenue. Both of those conferences make $3B while the next best is the Big XII at $500M. No one picks anyone off of the Pac 10 because of geography and they seem the third strongest.

I put a little pen to paper on this a couple of days ago but it's at work. Basically you have the Pac 10 + the 6 they want from the Big XII. Perhaps the Texas schools don't agree and in that case, Kansas and Kansas State find a home. The Big 10 picks off Nebraska, Mizzou, (maybe) Notre Dame and then 2/3 from the Big East (Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt- whoever the rumor is this week). The SEC raids the southern members of the ACC (Miami, FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech).

This leaves the Big XII with 4 (KU, KSU, Baylor, Iowa State). Speaking of which, the Cyclones are completely screwed as well, if there's a break up. The ACC is back to 8, the Big East football side is at 5 or 6? That leaves 18 geographically disparate teams vying for... something. And that doesn't include if you throw in some of the oddballs (TCU, BYU, Utah) into the mix or some of the schools that are great at one sport (Gonzaga, Boise St).

Also, would the SEC ever consider kicking out Vandy for a better sports school? How did Vandy get there in the first place and why are they still there? They seem like the nerd that's in the frat or on a sports team just to keep the GPA above water.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

That letter from ISU is actually kind of sad. They are not even going to be a draw for a revamped Mountain West. Hello MAC?

Iowa State is so screwed in this. I feel bad for them

Oh, and MrBug- that was pretty good and scarily accurate

SI

[Izulde]

The Mountain West is a stronger basketball conference than you think. There's some pretty good, consistent NCAA tournament schools in there.

[Eaglesfan27]

Another Orangebloods.com report is up and it says that the Texas Legislature is pushing for Baylor and not Colorado to be added to the Pac-10 if they want Texas.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Also, would the SEC ever consider kicking out Vandy for a better sports school? How did Vandy get there in the first place and why are they still there?

They're a founding/charter member of the SEC, all the way back to 1932.

The original 13 were the most western & southern members of the then 23 member Southern Conference which at times between 1894-1928 stretched from Virginia to Texas.

Only three schools have ever left: Sewanee (left 1940), Georgia Tech (in '64), and Tulane (in '66). Here's an interesting article from a couple of years ago about why each of those schools left. Based on what I've heard about GT's departure over the years, the summaries seem pretty accurate IMO.

But to answer your original question, the only way I ever see Vandy not being a part of the SEC is if they decided to leave on their own accord.

[RainMaker]

Is Vanderbilt really that bad of a sports school? I know they can't really compete in the SEC in football, but their basketball team has been one of the better ones in the conference this decade. I'm pretty sure they were even a #1 seed in the baseball tournament a couple years back.

Plus they are a strong academic school which I think the conference has to like having on their resume.

If you were going to kick out a school, I'd probably look at either of the Mississippi schools. Neither is particularly strong in athletics and both are at the bottom of the conference academically.

[RainMaker]

I still don't understand the lure of these mega-conferences. I understand 12 teams, but 16 seems way too much. Not only do teams not play each other in football often, but it seems like it would really hurt rivalries in the conferences.

The idea of conferences for me seemed to be getting a bunch of regional schools of similar ability and creating a great atmosphere for sports. These mega-conferences with no history are boring to me. There are people who like Big East basketball, but I find it sort of dumb that you have teams like South Florida, DePaul, etc. in it just so you can fill it out.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I still don't understand the lure of these mega-conferences. I understand 12 teams, but 16 seems way too much. Not only do teams not play each other in football often, but it seems like it would really hurt rivalries in the conferences.

The idea of conferences for me seemed to be getting a bunch of regional schools of similar ability and creating a great atmosphere for sports. These mega-conferences with no history are boring to me. There are people who like Big East basketball, but I find it sort of dumb that you have teams like South Florida, DePaul, etc. in it just so you can fill it out.

It's all about the money - specifically TV money. Speaking of a mega conference, there is chatter that the Pac-10 at least discussed the idea of going to 22 teams by offering the entire Big 12. Instead, it looks like they are just going to offer all of the South division.

[vex]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Another Orangebloods.com report is up and it says that the Texas Legislature is pushing for Baylor and not Colorado to be added to the Pac-10 if they want Texas.

Which is how Baylor got in the Big 12.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

USC is going to shock people this year. I think the new coaching staff has added a discipline that this team hasn't seen in a few years.

It doesn't really matter. For purposes of expansion, you don't make these decisions for the short-term, but the long-term. Anyone who would be against expansion because their football team might struggle for the next 2-4 years against increased competition, isn't making decisions based on the right criteria.

That said, I hope Kiffin falls flat on his face.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by vex

Which is how Baylor got in the Big 12.

Looks like it will work for the Pac-10 as well.. word out of the meetings this weekend is that the Pac-10 is willing to offer Baylor instead of Colorado.