NFL 2023 Offseason/Free Agency/Draft Thread - Page 22

JPhillips · 08-25-2023, 09:43 PM

If you're picking Sam Darnold over him you made a huge mistake somewhere along the line. I don't know if it's now or three years ago, but you messed up somewhere.

albionmoonlight · 08-25-2023, 10:12 PM

I had him just a hair behind Lawrence/Fields in that draft.

I was wrong.

Atocep · 08-25-2023, 10:17 PM

I thought he was an interesting prospect until I saw some film break downs that showed how simple NDSU had made the offense for him and that he was a single read QB.

Not sure the cowboys are the best situation either. The guy needs reps. He has something like 420 pass attempts since HS. At some point you have to play to get better.

cuervo72 · 08-26-2023, 12:20 AM

So we can cool it with drafting NDSU QB then?

stevew · 08-26-2023, 03:22 AM

Dallas, Minnesota, Baltimore, Denver, Washington, or Miami all made some kind of sense. I doubt he ever makes it. You don’t usually get traded after three full off-seasons and training camps and make it somewhere else. He should start taking acting lessons.

Carman Bulldog · 08-26-2023, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

So we can cool it with drafting NDSU QB then?

Even Easton Stick is struggling.

PilotMan · 08-26-2023, 11:12 AM

Man, I am SUPER triggered after the past couple days of discussions.

QuikSand · 08-26-2023, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep

I thought he was an interesting prospect until I saw some film break downs that showed how simple NDSU had made the offense for him and that he was a single read QB.

Not sure the cowboys are the best situation either. The guy needs reps. He has something like 420 pass attempts since HS. At some point you have to play to get better.

We know hindsight is 20/20 but I do recall hearing this angle too. I also recall the main “con” case for Wilson was that he faced nearly no pressure in college, so he was very untested in more NFL-like situations, which has been a huge part of his relative undoing as well.

Ksyrup · 08-26-2023, 10:47 PM

Certainly not a surprise but Stetson Bennett is not an NFL caliber QB.

Solecismic · 08-26-2023, 11:59 PM

I've concluded there isn't much to be gained from looking at preseason stats because teams are working on different things and starters don't play much. But if a quarterback comes out with numbers like that, it's probably not a good sign.

Today, a quarterback went 29-35-305-2-0 with 53 yards and two more TDs on the ground. He was a third-round pick in 2019. He'll get released for Trey Lance (who is only apparently worth a fourth-rounder). With teams carrying three quarterbacks now, he might get another chance to hold a clipboard somewhere.

Quarterback has become so difficult, and the margin for error so low these days, I'm not sure there are 32 guys in the world capable of playing the position decently in the NFL. Someone's probably going to call Tom Brady by mid-season and beg him for a few more starts.

GrantDawg · 08-27-2023, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Certainly not a surprise but Stetson Bennett is not an NFL caliber QB.

Not surprised either. Only surprised he got drafted as high as he did.

miami_fan · 08-27-2023, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Quarterback has become so difficult, and the margin for error so low these days, I'm not sure there are 32 guys in the world capable of playing the position decently in the NFL. Someone's probably going to call Tom Brady by mid-season and beg him for a few more starts.

Hopefully this comes out the right way. Are there not 32 guys capable of playing the position decently or are there not 32 guys capable of producing guys who can play the position like a Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes?

Mike Sando does a column of QB tiers every year where he ask NFL QB experts to rank the QBs in five tiers. I think the description of the tiers highlight what I am talking about.

Quote:

A Tier 1 quarterback can carry his team each week. The team wins because of him. He expertly handles pure passing situations. He has no real holes in his game.

A Tier 2 quarterback can carry his team sometimes but not as consistently. He can handle pure passing situations in doses and/or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to elevate him above Tier 3. He has a hole or two in his game.

A Tier 3 quarterback is a legitimate starter but needs a heavier running game and/or defensive component to win. A lower-volume dropback passing offense suits him best.

A Tier 4 quarterback could be an unproven player (not enough information for voters to classify) or a veteran who ideally would not start all 17 games.

A Tier 5 quarterback is best suited as a backup

I am by no means a person with a skilled eye on NFL QB play and I don't want to get too caught up in specific descriptors. I would say that if your QB is in the top two tiers, you have at least a good NFL QB. In 2023, there are 12 QBs in the top two tiers. Kirk Cousins was the at the bottom of Tier 2 and Kyler Murray was at the top of Tier 3. Mac Jones is at the bottom of Tier 3. I would say that Kirk Cousins is the bar for me of a decent NFL QB. Is the expectation for every NFL QB to be the next Mahomes at the top of the top tier? If so, I would go further and say that there are not 3 guys in the world capable of playing that position decently.

Danny · 08-27-2023, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Hopefully this comes out the right way. Are there not 32 guys capable of playing the position decently or are there not 32 guys capable of producing guys who can play the position like a Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes?

Mike Sando does a column of QB tiers every year where he ask NFL QB experts to rank the QBs in five tiers. I think the description of the tiers highlight what I am talking about.

I am by no means a person with a skilled eye on NFL QB play and I don't want to get too caught up in specific descriptors. I would say that if your QB is in the top two tiers, you have at least a good NFL QB. In 2023, there are 12 QBs in the top two tiers. Kirk Cousins was the at the bottom of Tier 2 and Kyler Murray was at the top of Tier 3. Mac Jones is at the bottom of Tier 3. I would say that Kirk Cousins is the bar for me of a decent NFL QB. Is the expectation for every NFL QB to be the next Mahomes at the top of the top tier? If so, I would go further and say that there are not 3 guys in the world capable of playing that position decently.

Just looked at his list. Looks ok except for Herbert. Guy is way overrated at this point. Still hasnt won a playoff game.

Edward64 · 08-27-2023, 11:22 AM

Carolina, you are dead to me.

Quote:

Former Arkansas linebacker Bumper Pool was among the 11 players cut by the Carolina Panthers on Saturday.

I didn't watch any of the preseason games but thought he had some decent stats. Hope he gets picked up by another team.

miami_fan · 08-27-2023, 11:55 AM

To be clear, I am not really debating where players rank on a list. QB comparison is what it is. My question is more along the lines of who is considered a standard NFL QB, where the QB's skills and capabilities end and where everything around him begins. Would a Kyler Murray fit that top tier description if I drop him into that Rams Super Bowl winning team with Sean McVay on the headsets? Geno Smith was an NFL standard QB, stopped being an NFL standard QB and then became one again. Maybe despite all of history, I refuse to believe NFL teams are this bad at scouting QB's and more likely to believe that they are worse than we think at developing QB's and putting in situations that maximize their skills and capabilities. Not to become the next Patrick Mahomes, I mean just in the range of a standard NFL QB to one that could win a title with a few best case scenarios.

GrantDawg · 08-27-2023, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64

Carolina, you are dead to me.

I didn't watch any of the preseason games but thought he had some decent stats. Hope he gets picked up by another team.

I want the Falcons to pick him up just on the name alone.

Edward64 · 08-27-2023, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I want the Falcons to pick him up just on the name alone.

Solecismic · 08-27-2023, 04:19 PM

Quarterbacks are evaluated more quickly than they were in the past because defenses are universally more competent and tape and workouts indicate who can make most or "all" of the throws. But there's still an element of not knowing what you have until you try it out. Scouting is so thorough that opponents quickly learn what you have and what they have to defend.

The unknown lies in the general realm of how quickly a quarterback can evaluate a situation and make a good decision when the primary throw he's told to make is not there. We tend to call that "operating at NFL speed."

If you can operate at NFL speed, you can play. You can even compensate for throws you can't make. But I think there are a lot of guys we consider starters because of that initial evaluation who are still starting only because they don't break at NFL speed. They could be replaced by a competent backup and their teams wouldn't lose anything.

There might be three or four true tier one guys at any time. They're thriving at NFL speed and they have good enough arms. And there are a lot of tier two guys who can lead winners in the right system. But not enough to go around. When you see a guy like Daniel Jones getting $40 million a year, the system isn't working ideally. He could be replaced by a decent backup.

JonInMiddleGA · 08-27-2023, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Are there not 32 guys capable of playing the position decently

I don't believe there are 32 tier 3's based on this scale. I'm not sure whether you could get to 32 tier 4s.

Solecismic · 08-27-2023, 11:34 PM

2 and 3 seem like the same thing - the difference is in the coaching.

A lot of practice time is spent just identifying backups who won't break at NFL speed. There were 101 different quarterbacks who took preseason reps. That didn't include Burrow and Murray (injured) and nine other established starters.

The draft is for getting quarterbacks who can make some or all of the throws. But it's interesting that we're down to six starters in the league who were drafted after round two, and we don't know about Ridder and Howell being able to play at this point. It's no coincidence that Atlanta and Washington have the most expensive newly-signed backups in the league.

There really aren't many first-round misses who stay in the league.

Danny · 08-28-2023, 12:13 AM

Theres going to be another all pro 4th rounder pretty soon

Solecismic · 08-28-2023, 01:01 AM

Old hat?

Danny · 08-28-2023, 01:05 AM

Rod Farva

Solecismic · 08-28-2023, 01:10 AM

He sure threw a lot of picks in college, seemed to regress last season. No deep ball. No one was scared to face him. You never know, though.

Danny · 08-28-2023, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

He sure threw a lot of picks in college, seemed to regress last season. No deep ball. No one was scared to face him. You never know, though.

Very early but he looked great this preseason. Mechanics looked better than they did in college and had more drive in his throws. Seems very poised and accurate and was always making the correct read. Im optimistic that he could be something in Mcdaniels offense

Solecismic · 08-28-2023, 07:04 AM

There's a reason starters don't bother playing in the preseason. No one's working on disguising defenses. Everyone's just trying to make a team. Reading's a lot easier with Dick and Jane than with Dostoyevsky.

But maybe every three years on average, a quarterback taken outside the top two rounds becomes a real starter in the league. Lightning has to strike somewhere.

Danny · 08-28-2023, 01:49 PM

Oh for sure, but he still out played all the other young and rookie qbs in those same situations including the ones taken at the top of the draft.

QuikSand · 08-28-2023, 02:22 PM

THAT'S WHY YOU DRAFT A KICKER!!!!
— Cleveland Browns (@Browns) September 11, 2022

Thomkal · 08-28-2023, 05:45 PM

So my beloved Cards have released QB Colt McCoy so their week 1 starter will either be newly acquired Josh Dobbs or 5th round pick Clayton Tune. Yes I feel so good about this season.

GrantDawg · 08-28-2023, 05:48 PM

If names could make you a great quarterback, Colt McCoy would have been a Hall of Famer.

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albionmoonlight · 08-28-2023, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So my beloved Cards have released QB Colt McCoy so their week 1 starter will either be newly acquired Josh Dobbs or 5th round pick Clayton Tune. Yes I feel so good about this season.

If this were a game of FOF, someone would be approaching the commish about tanking.

miami_fan · 08-28-2023, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

If you can operate at NFL speed, you can play. You can even compensate for throws you can't make. But I think there are a lot of guys we consider starters because of that initial evaluation who are still starting only because they don't break at NFL speed. They could be replaced by a competent backup and their teams wouldn't lose anything.

There might be three or four true tier one guys at any time. They're thriving at NFL speed and they have good enough arms. And there are a lot of tier two guys who can lead winners in the right system. But not enough to go around. When you see a guy like Daniel Jones getting $40 million a year, the system isn't working ideally. He could be replaced by a decent backup.

Quote:

2 and 3 seem like the same thing - the difference is in the coaching.

I don't think you and I are disagreeing. I do think there is a significant drop off from the Mahomes, Allen. etc. group to the rest of the league. I am saying that the drop from a decent Kirk Cousins to say 2022 Geno Smith is not as that significant. The significant difference is what system the coaches are asking those QB's work in and the talent the teams are asking them to work with.

I think a guy like Kirk Cousins fits the description of a quarterback who in the right system can lead a winner on the field. But if you told me he was replaced by David Carr, Jared Goff, Tua, Jimmy G, 2022 Geno Smith or maybe 2023 Daniel Jones, I am not sure there is a huge difference in production. I think if I put Dalvin Cook, Justin Jefferson, Adam Thielen and co. on the Giants with Daboll and his coaching staff on the sidelines, Jones would look better. He still won't be Mahomes but he would be looked at as a better QB than before.

My pushback is the standard for decent NFL quarterbacking being can you do what Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady can do. Not only is that an impossible standard since those are two of the greatest talents of all time, it ignores how they also benefited from the system and environment they ended up in. Guys like Alex Smith and Andy Daulton were pretty decent QBs if you got everything around them just right. I think both could be(were?) replaced by competent backups with little to no drop off during their career and eventually replaced permanently by top tier guys. I wonder if there are more QBs in that category (winners in the right system) and there are just less teams and coaching staffs capable of putting together those right systems for the QBs.

flere-imsaho · 08-28-2023, 06:57 PM

Say what you want about the 49ers & Trey Lance, but at least they cut him loose before compounding their problem with a huge contract like the Cardinals did with Murray.

Thomkal · 08-28-2023, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If this were a game of FOF, someone would be approaching the commish about tanking.

Me too!

albionmoonlight · 08-29-2023, 01:07 PM

Just overheard a coworker walking by talking to someone saying "And Washington is somehow better than we think they are"

And that just feels like the perfect description of that team this year.

Honolulu_Blue · 08-29-2023, 01:30 PM

I am beginning to worry that Jordan Love is the real deal and that Justin Fields could be ready to take an almost Jalen Hurts type leap, and the Lions' hope of finally winning the NFC North and hosting their first playoff game since 1994 may not come to fruition.

Solecismic · 08-29-2023, 02:16 PM

There must be fewer quarterbacks in the "we can hide some flaws, so he can be a backup" category than I thought.

Until 2011, the NFL allowed a 46th "active" player in the form of a third quarterback. The rule was that if a third quarterback entered the game, he had to finish it. Which had its drawbacks which meant they hardly ever entered a game. So it faded away and teams generally kept two active quarterbacks on the 46 and either protected a third on the 53 in the form of a recent draftee or one on the practice squad. But only two were active.

The Purdy playoff game wasn't pretty, though, with his backup suffering a concussion not long after his serious elbow injury. After Johnson's concussion, Purdy had to return, even though he was not in any condition to play.

The new rule is that teams can have an active 47th quarterback, but he has to be among the 53 on the roster. He is allowed to play only if a doctor decides both active quarterbacks are injured. But that's still one of the 53 spots taken up by a guy who won't normally be part of the rotation.

The signs are that a lot of teams would rather not use the rule, as it would mean one less non-quarterback under contract. Third quarterbacks are getting released, which means practice squad and unavailable for the 47th-player exemption.

It would have been a better rule if the exemption had been for a 54th roster spot instead. So what if teams store a drafted quarterback there who isn't yet ready and they don't want to lose him.

Ksyrup · 08-29-2023, 02:57 PM

That looks to be what Denver did in releasing DiNucci.

Solecismic · 08-29-2023, 03:35 PM

I think nine releases so far fall into that category (DeNucci being the most notable). Usually, about half of teams carry three QBs on the 53-man roster. The rule helps them. But if half the teams still don't want that insurance, it must mean that there just aren't good options for coordinators who want a third guy who can run the playbook without killing a team's chances to win a game. Which, in turn, means that the rule won't do anything for situations like what happened with Purdy/Johnson last season.

(Old Hat is now the only Rams quarterback on the roster who took a single preseason snap).

Ksyrup · 08-29-2023, 04:25 PM

I assume Bill has something up his sleeve, because he waived QB2 and QB3. Mac Jones is the only QB on the roster right now.

molson · 08-29-2023, 05:01 PM

Well, Brian Hoyer isn't available, so I assume Colt McCoy, since they're basically the same guy.

Solecismic · 08-29-2023, 05:12 PM

Cunningham isn't really a quarterback. He could develop into a package type. McSorley (waived earlier this week) is always showing promise, but probably falls into the category of too many flaws to hide even in an emergency.

So I'm surprised they're trying to move Zappe to the practice squad. I don't think he plays at NFL speed yet, but he does some things well. There's a risk there. Nevertheless, it looks like New England will sign someone somebody else cut. Though there is that unwritten rule that you don't sign someone who's supposed to be on someone else's practice squad. That would be an invitation for Zappe to get signed in return.

McCoy, then? The scouts know the real candidates and why. Wentz's name is still in play, and he's at least a viable backup in the league. I doubt he'd call Newton again - that didn't go well. Jones would benefit from a veteran presence, and Hoyer looks set in Vegas, but maybe O'Connell did impress enough to make Hoyer's salary a liability.

albionmoonlight · 08-29-2023, 05:28 PM

I liked what I saw with Zappe last year.

GrantDawg · 08-29-2023, 05:31 PM

The Falcons are keeping three QB's, at least as of right now. I think there is still going to be movement on some of the players that were cut.

stevew · 08-29-2023, 05:40 PM

Steelers keeping 2 punters because why not

GrantDawg · 08-29-2023, 05:59 PM

The Rams have no kickers, so...

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molson · 08-29-2023, 06:27 PM

I think the goal is probably still to have Zappe be the backup, they are just playing roster roulette in the meantime, and if Zappe gets picked up, so be it. A lot of teams do stuff like that now with the no kickers, two punters, 1 QB initial rosters.

Swaggs · 08-29-2023, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Steelers keeping 2 punters because why not

I read they are trading Mann. Kind of hard to see what he might bring in return, but Omar seems to like to do pick swaps, so maybe they can trade hum + a 7th for a 6th? Or maybe an injury settlement coming?

stevew · 08-30-2023, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I read they are trading Mann. Kind of hard to see what he might bring in return, but Omar seems to like to do pick swaps, so maybe they can trade hum + a 7th for a 6th? Or maybe an injury settlement coming?

Greene and Dotson both got traded. I can’t believe anyone gave up anything for those bums.

Solecismic · 08-30-2023, 06:05 PM

Most of the practice squads are taking final shape. In the end, it looks like most teams were uninterested in the extension to 47 players. They can always adjust if one of the two quarterbacks on the 53-man is day-to-day.

New England put both Zappe and Cunningham on the practice squad. Cunningham isn't someone who would start and play a full game at quarterback, so I wouldn't be surprised if they go out and sign another one. I don't share the enthusiasm about Zappe, even though his stats were pretty good for a fourth-round rookie.

Everyone's back up to 3/4 quarterbacks, including practice squads, except Chicago (who still has plenty of room on the practice squad). So it looks just like last year. Most teams brought back quarterbacks they just waived.

Cincinnati took Will Grier from Dallas, who wasn't going back because of the Trey Lance trade. Grier was a third-rounder in 2019 who seems like someone who could be a solid backup in the right system. Dallas gave him the entire game last week, since Lance had just been acquired and they wanted to give him the best shot at catching on somewhere else.

Cleveland, in the only real surprise, took P.J. Walker from Chicago (which is probably why the Bears haven't yet made a move). It had looked like they'd keep 2021 third-rounder Kellen Mond, but Mond didn't look good in the preseason and was passed on the depth chart by rookie fifth-rounder Dorian Thompson-Robinson (I think, the longest last name I've seen in football, so everyone here just says DTR).

08-25-2023, 09:43 PM	#1051
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	If you're picking Sam Darnold over him you made a huge mistake somewhere along the line. I don't know if it's now or three years ago, but you messed up somewhere. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

08-26-2023, 12:20 AM	#1054
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	So we can cool it with drafting NDSU QB then? __________________ null

08-26-2023, 11:12 AM	#1057
PilotMan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seven miles up	Man, I am SUPER triggered after the past couple days of discussions. __________________ He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam

08-26-2023, 10:47 PM	#1059
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	Certainly not a surprise but Stetson Bennett is not an NFL caliber QB. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

08-27-2023, 11:55 AM	#1065
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	To be clear, I am not really debating where players rank on a list. QB comparison is what it is. My question is more along the lines of who is considered a standard NFL QB, where the QB's skills and capabilities end and where everything around him begins. Would a Kyler Murray fit that top tier description if I drop him into that Rams Super Bowl winning team with Sean McVay on the headsets? Geno Smith was an NFL standard QB, stopped being an NFL standard QB and then became one again. Maybe despite all of history, I refuse to believe NFL teams are this bad at scouting QB's and more likely to believe that they are worse than we think at developing QB's and putting in situations that maximize their skills and capabilities. Not to become the next Patrick Mahomes, I mean just in the range of a standard NFL QB to one that could win a title with a few best case scenarios. __________________ "The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946

08-25-2023, 10:12 PM	#1052
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	I had him just a hair behind Lawrence/Fields in that draft. I was wrong.

08-25-2023, 10:17 PM	#1053
Atocep Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Puyallup, WA	I thought he was an interesting prospect until I saw some film break downs that showed how simple NDSU had made the offense for him and that he was a single read QB. Not sure the cowboys are the best situation either. The guy needs reps. He has something like 420 pass attempts since HS. At some point you have to play to get better.

08-26-2023, 03:22 AM	#1055
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Dallas, Minnesota, Baltimore, Denver, Washington, or Miami all made some kind of sense. I doubt he ever makes it. You don’t usually get traded after three full off-seasons and training camps and make it somewhere else. He should start taking acting lessons.

08-26-2023, 11:59 PM	#1060
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	I've concluded there isn't much to be gained from looking at preseason stats because teams are working on different things and starters don't play much. But if a quarterback comes out with numbers like that, it's probably not a good sign. Today, a quarterback went 29-35-305-2-0 with 53 yards and two more TDs on the ground. He was a third-round pick in 2019. He'll get released for Trey Lance (who is only apparently worth a fourth-rounder). With teams carrying three quarterbacks now, he might get another chance to hold a clipboard somewhere. Quarterback has become so difficult, and the margin for error so low these days, I'm not sure there are 32 guys in the world capable of playing the position decently in the NFL. Someone's probably going to call Tom Brady by mid-season and beg him for a few more starts.

08-27-2023, 04:19 PM	#1068
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	Quarterbacks are evaluated more quickly than they were in the past because defenses are universally more competent and tape and workouts indicate who can make most or "all" of the throws. But there's still an element of not knowing what you have until you try it out. Scouting is so thorough that opponents quickly learn what you have and what they have to defend. The unknown lies in the general realm of how quickly a quarterback can evaluate a situation and make a good decision when the primary throw he's told to make is not there. We tend to call that "operating at NFL speed." If you can operate at NFL speed, you can play. You can even compensate for throws you can't make. But I think there are a lot of guys we consider starters because of that initial evaluation who are still starting only because they don't break at NFL speed. They could be replaced by a competent backup and their teams wouldn't lose anything. There might be three or four true tier one guys at any time. They're thriving at NFL speed and they have good enough arms. And there are a lot of tier two guys who can lead winners in the right system. But not enough to go around. When you see a guy like Daniel Jones getting $40 million a year, the system isn't working ideally. He could be replaced by a decent backup.

08-27-2023, 11:34 PM	#1070
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	2 and 3 seem like the same thing - the difference is in the coaching. A lot of practice time is spent just identifying backups who won't break at NFL speed. There were 101 different quarterbacks who took preseason reps. That didn't include Burrow and Murray (injured) and nine other established starters. The draft is for getting quarterbacks who can make some or all of the throws. But it's interesting that we're down to six starters in the league who were drafted after round two, and we don't know about Ridder and Howell being able to play at this point. It's no coincidence that Atlanta and Washington have the most expensive newly-signed backups in the league. There really aren't many first-round misses who stay in the league.

08-28-2023, 12:13 AM	#1071
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Theres going to be another all pro 4th rounder pretty soon

08-28-2023, 01:01 AM	#1072
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	Old hat?

08-28-2023, 01:05 AM	#1073
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Rod Farva

08-28-2023, 01:10 AM	#1074
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	He sure threw a lot of picks in college, seemed to regress last season. No deep ball. No one was scared to face him. You never know, though.

08-28-2023, 07:04 AM	#1076
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	There's a reason starters don't bother playing in the preseason. No one's working on disguising defenses. Everyone's just trying to make a team. Reading's a lot easier with Dick and Jane than with Dostoyevsky. But maybe every three years on average, a quarterback taken outside the top two rounds becomes a real starter in the league. Lightning has to strike somewhere.

08-28-2023, 01:49 PM	#1077
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Oh for sure, but he still out played all the other young and rookie qbs in those same situations including the ones taken at the top of the draft.

08-28-2023, 02:22 PM	#1078
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	THAT'S WHY YOU DRAFT A KICKER!!!! — Cleveland Browns (@Browns) September 11, 2022

08-28-2023, 05:45 PM	#1079
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	So my beloved Cards have released QB Colt McCoy so their week 1 starter will either be newly acquired Josh Dobbs or 5th round pick Clayton Tune. Yes I feel so good about this season. __________________ Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time!

08-28-2023, 05:48 PM	#1080
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	If names could make you a great quarterback, Colt McCoy would have been a Hall of Famer. Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

08-28-2023, 06:57 PM	#1083
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	Say what you want about the 49ers & Trey Lance, but at least they cut him loose before compounding their problem with a huge contract like the Cardinals did with Murray.

08-29-2023, 01:07 PM	#1085
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	Just overheard a coworker walking by talking to someone saying "And Washington is somehow better than we think they are" And that just feels like the perfect description of that team this year.

08-29-2023, 01:30 PM	#1086
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	I am beginning to worry that Jordan Love is the real deal and that Justin Fields could be ready to take an almost Jalen Hurts type leap, and the Lions' hope of finally winning the NFC North and hosting their first playoff game since 1994 may not come to fruition. __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

08-29-2023, 02:16 PM	#1087
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	There must be fewer quarterbacks in the "we can hide some flaws, so he can be a backup" category than I thought. Until 2011, the NFL allowed a 46th "active" player in the form of a third quarterback. The rule was that if a third quarterback entered the game, he had to finish it. Which had its drawbacks which meant they hardly ever entered a game. So it faded away and teams generally kept two active quarterbacks on the 46 and either protected a third on the 53 in the form of a recent draftee or one on the practice squad. But only two were active. The Purdy playoff game wasn't pretty, though, with his backup suffering a concussion not long after his serious elbow injury. After Johnson's concussion, Purdy had to return, even though he was not in any condition to play. The new rule is that teams can have an active 47th quarterback, but he has to be among the 53 on the roster. He is allowed to play only if a doctor decides both active quarterbacks are injured. But that's still one of the 53 spots taken up by a guy who won't normally be part of the rotation. The signs are that a lot of teams would rather not use the rule, as it would mean one less non-quarterback under contract. Third quarterbacks are getting released, which means practice squad and unavailable for the 47th-player exemption. It would have been a better rule if the exemption had been for a 54th roster spot instead. So what if teams store a drafted quarterback there who isn't yet ready and they don't want to lose him.

08-29-2023, 02:57 PM	#1088
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	That looks to be what Denver did in releasing DiNucci. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

08-29-2023, 03:35 PM	#1089
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	I think nine releases so far fall into that category (DeNucci being the most notable). Usually, about half of teams carry three QBs on the 53-man roster. The rule helps them. But if half the teams still don't want that insurance, it must mean that there just aren't good options for coordinators who want a third guy who can run the playbook without killing a team's chances to win a game. Which, in turn, means that the rule won't do anything for situations like what happened with Purdy/Johnson last season. (Old Hat is now the only Rams quarterback on the roster who took a single preseason snap). Last edited by Solecismic : 08-29-2023 at 04:06 PM.

08-29-2023, 04:25 PM	#1090
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I assume Bill has something up his sleeve, because he waived QB2 and QB3. Mac Jones is the only QB on the roster right now. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 08-29-2023 at 06:56 PM.

08-29-2023, 05:01 PM	#1091
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Well, Brian Hoyer isn't available, so I assume Colt McCoy, since they're basically the same guy.

08-29-2023, 05:12 PM	#1092
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	Cunningham isn't really a quarterback. He could develop into a package type. McSorley (waived earlier this week) is always showing promise, but probably falls into the category of too many flaws to hide even in an emergency. So I'm surprised they're trying to move Zappe to the practice squad. I don't think he plays at NFL speed yet, but he does some things well. There's a risk there. Nevertheless, it looks like New England will sign someone somebody else cut. Though there is that unwritten rule that you don't sign someone who's supposed to be on someone else's practice squad. That would be an invitation for Zappe to get signed in return. McCoy, then? The scouts know the real candidates and why. Wentz's name is still in play, and he's at least a viable backup in the league. I doubt he'd call Newton again - that didn't go well. Jones would benefit from a veteran presence, and Hoyer looks set in Vegas, but maybe O'Connell did impress enough to make Hoyer's salary a liability.

08-29-2023, 05:28 PM	#1093
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	I liked what I saw with Zappe last year.

08-29-2023, 05:31 PM	#1094
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	The Falcons are keeping three QB's, at least as of right now. I think there is still going to be movement on some of the players that were cut.

08-29-2023, 05:40 PM	#1095
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Steelers keeping 2 punters because why not

08-29-2023, 05:59 PM	#1096
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	The Rams have no kickers, so... Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

08-29-2023, 06:27 PM	#1097
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	I think the goal is probably still to have Zappe be the backup, they are just playing roster roulette in the meantime, and if Zappe gets picked up, so be it. A lot of teams do stuff like that now with the no kickers, two punters, 1 QB initial rosters.

08-30-2023, 06:05 PM	#1100
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	Most of the practice squads are taking final shape. In the end, it looks like most teams were uninterested in the extension to 47 players. They can always adjust if one of the two quarterbacks on the 53-man is day-to-day. New England put both Zappe and Cunningham on the practice squad. Cunningham isn't someone who would start and play a full game at quarterback, so I wouldn't be surprised if they go out and sign another one. I don't share the enthusiasm about Zappe, even though his stats were pretty good for a fourth-round rookie. Everyone's back up to 3/4 quarterbacks, including practice squads, except Chicago (who still has plenty of room on the practice squad). So it looks just like last year. Most teams brought back quarterbacks they just waived. Cincinnati took Will Grier from Dallas, who wasn't going back because of the Trey Lance trade. Grier was a third-rounder in 2019 who seems like someone who could be a solid backup in the right system. Dallas gave him the entire game last week, since Lance had just been acquired and they wanted to give him the best shot at catching on somewhere else. Cleveland, in the only real surprise, took P.J. Walker from Chicago (which is probably why the Bears haven't yet made a move). It had looked like they'd keep 2021 third-rounder Kellen Mond, but Mond didn't look good in the preseason and was passed on the depth chart by rookie fifth-rounder Dorian Thompson-Robinson (I think, the longest last name I've seen in football, so everyone here just says DTR).